Scientology: Religion or Cult? [Archive] - SV650.org

SoulKiss

14-05-07, 12:39 PM

One definiation of whether an ideology is a Cult or a Religion goes something like.....

A religion is an organisation where the majority of members were born into it.

A cult is an organisation where the majority of members came to it as adults.

So, on the back of the Deep Thought thread, and the current stuff in the media about this Panorama show tonight on BBC1.

Whats peoples thoughts on Scientology?

keithd

14-05-07, 12:44 PM

i dont know enough about it to offer an opionion.

hang on a tick, thats never stopped me in the past....

its a bunch of nutters parading around with their granmothers panties on their heads conning the honest film stars, such as wee tom cruise, out of their hard earned.

they should be ashamed

i sincerely hope you find the above message of use to you.

Filipe M.

14-05-07, 12:51 PM

Cult. And apparently a very poor one at that.

MiniMatt

14-05-07, 12:53 PM

I vote kooky club :)

Having said that, the panorama "interviewer" didn't do himself any favours throwing a tantrum most four year olds would have been proud of.

Steve H

14-05-07, 12:53 PM

Filipe, you did say Cult, didn't you? :D

Filipe M.

14-05-07, 12:58 PM

Filipe, you did say Cult, didn't you? :D

:confused:

:smt017

:rolleyes:

PsychoCannon

14-05-07, 01:05 PM

A very strange cult which is all about the money =p
They reckon it costs a member anywhere around $300,000+ to "finish" the course =p

The bit that gets me (ignoring the whole 95 Trillion year old alien bit...) is how they declare Psychology (of all things) to be Evil and spend so much effort trying to discredit it....then charge people hourly for Audits in which they try to get into repressed memories and resolve the trauma's therein...hey wait a minute...they already do that..it's called PSYCHOLOGY!!!!

Spiderman

14-05-07, 01:05 PM

Is this a serious question?

How can it even be viewd as a religion when its founder/creator , a MR L. Ron Hubbard has even said its not?
And he was alive until about 10yrs ago.

So how many other religions were started by a guy who writes fiction and self help books and was around to be questioned about it then?

And how many say you have to pay x-amount of money to go up a level in the organisation?

All religions are rubbish imho (not the people in them, just the idea of organised religion i mean) and this doesnt even come close to those ones. So religion? Perrrrrrlease! :roll:

For the financialy overloaded and soft of brain i think.

DanDare

14-05-07, 01:11 PM

Not wanting to sound narrow minded but................

..........Freaks!:smt101

dizzyblonde

14-05-07, 01:25 PM

I agree..Cults are are for freaks and wierdos.
I however honour anybodies religion
I have a friend who converted to Islam so he could marry his wife
I also have a friend who is Buddhist
A friend from Granada Jacob the rasta- A religion to him
My fella's roman Catholic
I'm c of E
My ex is none of the above
But we all got together for my sons christening a few years ago and had a splendid time:D

There are those amongst us that proclaim to be in the order of the Jedi Knight- but they're just mad, but apparently it is a very popular cult/club? to join:smt017

Steve H

14-05-07, 01:32 PM

DanDare

14-05-07, 01:42 PM

I agree, I even have a friend who supports Arsenal!!!!! ;)

:smt046 :smt044 :mrgreen:

Ceri JC

14-05-07, 01:53 PM

PsychoCannon

14-05-07, 01:59 PM

It's a cult. They only ever claimed it was a religion once L. Ron discovered the tax breaks they'd be eligible for if it was seen as a religion.

Oh and for those who know what it means, I'm a Knight of Xenu. ;)

Does that mean your ebil :)

As for the Jedi thing, those that want it as a religion want it knowing it's all a big joke and a bit of fun, true some take it seriously but not scientology seriously.

What would happen after it became a religion would be interesting to see though lol :)

When was the last time you heard of the Jedi's suing people for defaming them or sending death threats to Trekies :)

wyrdness

14-05-07, 02:25 PM

It's neither a religion nor a cult. It's a scam - like those emails from Nigeria promising you vast riches if you send them money. Victims of the Nigerian scams often refuse to acknowledge that they've been scammed and still believe that their 'friends' were genuinely going to make them rich. Likewise with Scientologists, once they've bought into it and paid out large sums of money, they're really unwilling to accept that they've been scammed with all this Xenu sci-fi nonsense. Some people are making huge amounts of money out of this.

Ping

14-05-07, 02:44 PM

Baph

14-05-07, 02:48 PM

They reckon it costs a member anywhere around $300,000+ to "finish" the course =p

How much would an average Methodist Christian spend on their religion? Lets only look at "voluntary contributions" to support the church given during the sunday's preeching. Lets assume £2/week (though most give more than that from experience). That's £104/year. Lets assume that they attend every week for 60 years... That's £6204, or $12283 USD in a lifetime!!!

Then add all the other money they give to the church via coffee mornings, or jumble sales etc etc.

Back to the topic...

Scientology, I think, fit's into the fact that it is a "belief system." Where exactly it fits on that grey scale I don't know.

People choose to follow scientology. Most cults exist as part of a "brainwashing" and the leaders are basically abusing their followers in some form or another.

Religions, in general, people subscribe to out of their own free will (I know, complications are possible here - like I said, grey area) and I'd say that the leaders are still abusing their followers in some form or another.

Personally, I'd put Scientology somewhere on the scale between Religion & Freemasonry.

SoulKiss

14-05-07, 02:48 PM

Tee hee hee! I got my very first lightsaber on the weekend... :love:

OMG how much fun is it? :thumright:
(its the purple Mace Windu one with movement and hit sensors that changes the sout effects.:cool:)

Whenever the next census is, if I actually exist for it, I might just put my religion as Jedi... they missed me out on the last one...:lol:

I don't know much about Scientology, but there's a shop just round the corner from my office I could pop into and ask... Probably don't even need to go in though as they're always out in the street trying to capture people for probing...

Go on then Ping - ask them if they have a copy of Battlefield Earth.

Or if you are feeling particularly masochistic, Mission Earth - all 10 volumes :)

Each of those would STILL be better than Dianetics: The Great Story of Lord Xenu !!!!

Alternatively lets go picket the place at the weekend :)

We can get some take-away from the Spaghetti House round the corner and go as Pastafarians :)

Pedrosa

14-05-07, 03:06 PM

One of my HRC mechanic he very religious I be think. Other day in garage,spanner be slip when he try tighten something. Mechanic bang hand very hard and he shout..."Cult".:rolleyes:

dizzyblonde

14-05-07, 04:03 PM

Go on then Ping - ask them if they have a copy of Battlefield Earth.

Or if you are feeling particularly masochistic, Mission Earth - all 10 volumes :)

Each of those would STILL be better than Dianetics: The Great Story of Lord Xenu !!!!

Alternatively lets go picket the place at the weekend :)

We can get some take-away from the Spaghetti House round the corner and go as Pastafarians :)

Pastafarians--Nice one:smt081

SoulKiss

14-05-07, 04:10 PM

Pastafarians--Nice one:smt081

Pastafarian, as in one who worships the FSM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster)

Have you been touched by his noodly appendage??

dizzyblonde

14-05-07, 04:30 PM

No another blonde moment, but I have now...after reading your link I picked this quote
Henderson claims, "I don't have a problem with religion. What I have a problem with is religion posing as science. If there is a god and he's intelligent, then I would guess he has a sense of humor

thedonal

14-05-07, 04:34 PM

Wasn't it started as a bet that L Ron and another author could start a religion and make loads of money?

It's clearly a tax dodge for the rich'n'famous though but shares the money making thing with most other religions- control, power and wealth thinly disguised as something great and spiritual!

Dicky Ticker

14-05-07, 04:48 PM

Cult or religion it is only a story----------They all are,no matter what and all the heads live it up while the numpities pays the money

thedonal

14-05-07, 04:58 PM

I've just watched the report on the BBC reporter losing his rag. To be honest, I'd not be far from smacking the guy from the 'church'- clearly they cannot accept any criticism or even answer questions about criticisms they've received. 'sides which, the spokesman was clearly there to vehemently protest against any question and not listen to the questions properly or in a balanced way and just talk over anything else said by the reporter.

Isn't that normally the behaviour of someone with no good answers or even something to hide?

neio79

14-05-07, 05:12 PM

tigersaw

14-05-07, 05:35 PM

I've just moved away from East Grinstead - the centre of UK scientology, I lived a short walk from saint hill castle, their headquarters.
Many of my neighbours were scientologists, now none of them were 'wierd' in any way, but they were 'different'. They had a lot of visitors, especially from USA. They opened a shop in the town, but it became the norm to deface it after the night club closed on Friday, and so it closed. However, dont underestimate their presence - they own huge amounts of property and business, and have influence in high places.
As for their goals - I never showed any interest and I am none the wiser. (Although I declined a 'free personality check' several times.)

Supervox

14-05-07, 06:45 PM

Cult definatly a cult!! wierdo's.

saying that what are the main religions other than cults???

That is what Jesus was labled as when he started out.

I am not religious at all, but am concidered C of E by default.

Ithe one religion i dont have any time for is Muslim. IMO the route of a lot of the trouble in the world today, well the extreme side of it anyway.

A rather sweeping statement I think !!

EVERY religion has its extremists.

If you consider yourself C of E by default, then you actually have more in common with Islam than you probably realise. And, as an aside, Islam is actually one of the most tolerant religions around - when not being hijacked by those with their own agenda.

neio79

14-05-07, 06:55 PM

From what is happening in the world today and the way Islam is portraid it certainly does not come across as a peacefull religion.

Or is that because extremests are far more radical in it than in other religions. i.e prepered to kill themselves for it.

you certainly dont get Vicars preaching about killing anyone who does not belive in christianity, but you do in main stream mosques up and down the country. It appears that this is becomming more of the norm as well.

well if they dont like the west why do they chose to live here if it is the land of the infidel??

Cloggsy

14-05-07, 06:58 PM

Watch this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HGM8DSnYh0) :lol:

Cloggsy

14-05-07, 06:59 PM

Then watch this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxqR5NPhtLI&mode=related&search=) :cool: :smt081

Cloggsy

14-05-07, 07:02 PM

This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA5VsSF6FZA&NR=1) is the explanation...

weazelz

14-05-07, 07:07 PM

I've just moved away from East Grinstead - the centre of UK scientology ...
I thought it was Mormon country down there?

tigersaw

14-05-07, 07:11 PM

I thought it was Mormon country down there?

Yop mean the church of latterday saints? (LOL).

Yes Grinny is an odd place. They even made a documentary about it some time ago, though I binned all my video tapes before I moved.

slark01

14-05-07, 07:29 PM

I am very religious.
I am a Knight of Ni from OoCH ( Order of Hysterical Comedy ).
My goal is to be permanently joyous.
To create laughter wherever I go.
To moon the Moonies.
To mourn the mormons.
To clothe the muslims in muslin.
To bud the Buddhists.
To cross the christians.
To shoot the stupid motherf*cker idiots who support in way, shape or form scientology cu*ts.
To rant

the_lone_wolf

14-05-07, 07:36 PM

i prefer to subscribe to this particular set of beliefs:

www.venganza.org (http://www.venganza.org)

FSM forever:cool:

edit: didn't realise his noodle appendage had already touched this thread

dizzyblonde

14-05-07, 07:58 PM

watching the beeb.. it confirms all our thoughts
nutters, freaks and wierdos:toss: :smt073

the_lone_wolf

14-05-07, 08:03 PM

jesus...

i knew they were nuts, but i never imagined they were THAT nuts:eek:

Balky001

14-05-07, 08:11 PM

Damn, did I miss it? I'll have to watch the freaks on Channel 5 (Man whose arms exploded) now to get my weirdo fix

sarah

14-05-07, 08:13 PM

Damn, did I miss it? I'll have to watch the freaks on Channel 5 (Man whose arms exploded) now to get my weirdo fix

it wasnt that exciting

maff

14-05-07, 08:22 PM

carefull

you'll all be 'fair gamed' :rolleyes:

hovis

14-05-07, 09:00 PM

i was going to wait until i saw the program b4 posting, but my skys gone tits up again.

ps i wanna be a jedi

dizzyblonde

14-05-07, 09:07 PM

I'm thinkin of using my new loftspace for the jedi knights.. If I join I might be able to get out of payin Council Tax seeing as though my house would be a place of worship...

soz am i loweing the tone of conversation:confused:

Tim in Belgium

14-05-07, 09:07 PM

Very amusing.

Fair play to Sweeney "losing it", shouting was the only way to make himself heard above the circular breathing COS freak, and when he did shout he was at least making a fair point, I think I'd just be swearing by that stage, probably why I am not a journalist ;)

SoulKiss

14-05-07, 09:10 PM

i was going to wait until i saw the program b4 posting, but my skys gone tits up again.

ps i wanna be a jedi

Patience Young Padawan,

Hurry not, or the darkside will for you be.

Hmmmmmm

Yellow Lightsaber, have not, you can.

Tim in Belgium

14-05-07, 09:12 PM

From Ask Oxford:

cult

• noun 1 a system of religious worship directed towards a particular figure or object. 2 a small religious group regarded as strange or as imposing excessive control over members. 3 something popular or fashionable among a particular section of society

I think Scientology fits all of the above 3!

But many other religions also satisfy at least one or two of these points, not that I mean to stir ;)

Luckypants

14-05-07, 10:11 PM

This was on BBC Wales tonight, so now can comment. Bunch of dodgy creepy secret society geezers. Defo a cult.

I think that reporter guy did well to be restrained for so long with that Scientology bloke that kept popping up from nowhere. By the time he lost it, most folks would have been in the cells for GBH!

Demonz

14-05-07, 11:11 PM

I thought he was very calm when he lost it actually - switched it on and off quite well.

Eitherway they will be happy with all the PR they got - even if it was contraversal.

ASM-Forever

14-05-07, 11:58 PM

I viewed scientology(i wont dignify it with a capital :) ) as a bit of a joke until i saw the documentary.

If what was shown was in any way an accurate portrayal of their workings and beliefs etc i am genuinely disturbed....and i pride myself on my apathetic demeanour.

I saw quite a few paralells with how the 'cult'(dare i say it) is run with historic dictatorships. All the proaganda and character assasination. I also found it highly amusing at the attempts of the freaks to follow the journalist......methinks they have been watching too much Magnum PI.

As for the camera wielding monkeys...following him around...i would have just laid them out...frickin' weirdos! Also the 'attack dog' that kept getting into arguments then storming off was asking for a fat lip.

Rarely does a religion even register on my radar but if one of the scientology 'ministers' approached me...i can honestly say i would give him a slap.

PsychoCannon

15-05-07, 08:45 AM

My mate at work is an ordaned minister for the church of the subgenius! (http://www.subgenius.com/) (all praise the slack!).
He got his certification in the post and everything!!

Steve H

15-05-07, 09:34 AM

I thought he was very calm when he lost it actually - switched it on and off quite well.

Eitherway they will be happy with all the PR they got - even if it was contraversal.

Yeah, how scary was he?...........................NOT! #-o

Grinch

15-05-07, 10:06 AM

Bunch of nutters.

Alpinestarhero

15-05-07, 10:53 AM

Cult. Based on Science Fiction (hence not science fact, although some of science fiction is based on some facts but most of it is alot of twaddle). Is Captain Picard their god? I think it should be worf, he;s cool and calm, but has the enger you expect from a god.

Its very expensive to join and also expensive to remain a member of, i understand

Matt

Alpinestarhero

15-05-07, 10:59 AM

Pastafarian, as in one who worships the FSM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster)

Have you been touched by his noodly appendage??

BEWARE THE NOODLY APPENDAGE!

I for one whole heatidly beleive in this mythical creature, and that it will cleanse the world of untasty evils

Matt

stewie

15-05-07, 02:57 PM

Bob marley was a pastafarian, true that

beniryu

15-05-07, 03:50 PM

I know someone who claims to be a super human from 3 billion years in Earth's future. Apparently her timeship is five miles wide and hovering over Glastonbury Tor at the moment in a dimension parallel to ours and thus is invisible to us mere mortals.........

Takes all sorts I suppose

Grinch

15-05-07, 03:51 PM

Any fruit loop could say that, why should be think they are telling the truth?

Tiger 55

16-05-07, 11:50 AM

her timeship is five miles wide and hovering over Glastonbury Tor
How come it's always somewhere like Glastonbury or Stonhenge? How come it's never the Bull Ring or the North Circular?

Anyway, me and Mrs Tiger are Jedi, according to the last census, but we balked at putting the kids down. Had an actual conversation about them making their own minds up when they're older. Now that's crackers!

And my scientology personality check taken on the Tottenham Court Road in 1984 (are they still there?) revealed that I had been depressed in the past and may become depressed in the future, a searing insight.

Cult.

Stingo

16-05-07, 03:22 PM

Some people say that football is a religion...

Lots of followers...

Meet up regularly...like...every week...

The followers have 'the meet' at a 'place of worship'....

The followers regularly beat other followers/fanatics up...

Did I say that I'm not religious?...

I quite like Rugby tho'...and deck hockey of course...and 'throw the cabin boy over the side'...:D