View Full Version : Monkey's trackday diaries-13th June-Brands Hatch Indy
Trackday number 4.
Lovely weather, sunny all day. We had to be noise tested which is a first for me. Didn't see anyone fail though (105dB day and 102dB evening I think). Slowly progressed through the sessions and just before lunch I had all but got rid of my chicken strips! Was chuffed to bits. Also got toe down so repositioned foot and then got peg and brake lever down. Bit scary for a virgin of the scrapage like me (not very nice getting toe down in all weather touring boots as the rubber doesn't slide it just snags). I WAS happy as Larry until three of my mates got their knee down, which two of them continued to do throughout the day. ****s. Anyway, after the 1 hour 40 minute break for lunch I couldn't get back into the zone so I just poodled around a bit before we all went home and the evening session started. They were very thorough checking wrist straps and stickers every session. There a few offs but nothing bad. My mate took a plunge into the gravel after "the track ran out!". Overall a good day.
One question: How can I get the peg and lever down and toe down but not the knee? I was following LukeMiller's guide on here somewhere; small gap between tank and me, one cheek off, pretending to look in the mirror, weighting the outside peg and resting outside leg on tank and of course sticking the knee out. Nothing. Does me being 6'2" give me a disadvantage?
Over and out. Until next track day. Monkey.
:smt035
weazelz
14-06-07, 05:26 AM
glad you had a good day - trackdays are so much more fun in the dry :-)
if you're getting your pegs scraping, then you just need to hang off a bit more & stick your knee out further. being 6'2" is an advantage - you've got longer legs. if you're still not getting it, then maybe think about getting some jack-up plates to give the bike that little extra bit of lean. ask one of your mates to ride round behind you & see how far you are from kneedown - I'll bet you're 1/2" away :-)
Blue_SV650S
14-06-07, 09:03 AM
Got any pics of you in action?!!? :)
Will have to practice Weazelz. One of my mates said I was there. Close but no cigar. Thing is, he has mahoosive chicken strips and got his knee down loads I think by twisting round the front which I've heard is bad?! I have virtually no strips and clean scrapers. I know it's not all about knee down but if I can do it then I know I'm going as fast as I probably want to go.
No pics I'm afraid. The photographer was really bad this time. Loads were out of focus and some even had half the bike chopped off. I really want to get a camera sorted on the bike. I've got a nokia n93 which has a great camera and in fact gives the same frame rate and resolution as the ones the video man uses. It's just I can't get a suitable holder for it. The mount is no problem as they're everywhere. Think I'll have to fashion one from sticky back plastic and an old washing up bottle.
Track days certainly are better in the dry! I found it unbelievable how sticky the tyres get. I've got sports touring tyres and they felt and looked exactly the same as the fella's on sports. Does the snotty stuff mean the technique isn't very good? Apparently it's called cold tyre rip or something?
:)
Blue_SV650S
14-06-07, 10:33 AM
Onboard footage is cool from my and other punters point of view as we get a 'virtual ride' 8) ... but if you want to know why you knee isn't down when the rest of the bike is, the only way to diagnose that (and for you to see for yourself), is by looking at pics/trackside video ... ;)
weazelz
14-06-07, 10:44 AM
Will have to practice Weazelz. One of my mates said I was there. Close but no cigar. Thing is, he has mahoosive chicken strips and got his knee down loads I think by twisting round the front which I've heard is bad?! I have virtually no strips and clean scrapers. I know it's not all about knee down but if I can do it then I know I'm going as fast as I probably want to go.
Track days certainly are better in the dry! I found it unbelievable how sticky the tyres get. I've got sports touring tyres and they felt and looked exactly the same as the fella's on sports. Does the snotty stuff mean the technique isn't very good? Apparently it's called cold tyre rip or something?
:)
the amount of chicken strip vs. amount of lean varies depending on the profile of your tyre. you'll get to the edge of a sport-touring tyre a lot sooner than a sporty tyre, so he may not be leaning much further than you.
I don't know what kneesliders you use, but I like Wiz Trakpux (http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/products/ProductDetail.asp?cls=MCYCLE&pcode=FABTPXB). they're ~2" thick (so they last for ages), but they also migth give you that extra inch to touch down
tyres get snotty just from being hot & being made to do some gripping, I doubt that you're doign anything wrong. it's very noticable after your first [dry] trackday, but everyone's tyres do it
I didn't realise the profile was very different! I had to get sports touring for the longevity of them and the fact that I doubt I'd evere get sports tyres in the correct operating temperature range except for on track. But then again if I'm getting the peg down there's obviously enough profile to get the knee down.
Was thinking about getting some fatter sliders! He he.
Yeah I suppose on board cam would only be good for looking at timing and lines.
:)
the amount of chicken strip vs. amount of lean varies depending on the profile of your tyre. you'll get to the edge of a sport-touring tyre a lot sooner than a sporty tyre, so he may not be leaning much further than you.
Well I thought he was leaning less than me to be honest but just had a better hanging of technique.
So does the fact that I've got virtually no strips left mean I am dangerously close to coming off and I should get sports tyres fitted? Would I notice the difference on the road?
:)
Blue_SV650S
20-06-07, 08:17 AM
...
Its not a good thing!! :D ... I have never seen you ride, but chances are that if you modified you riding style/body position, you would be asking a lot less from the bike/tyres for the same speed. How ‘fast’ would you say you are compared to the rest of your group (and what group do you go in?).
Secondly, is your bike a pleasure bike or a workhorse? Proper track rubber won’t take too kindly to being used daily. That’s not to say it won’t work on the road*, but you will loose out on the track ...
I suggest you buy a spare set of wheels and put track/race rubber on them swapping them back and forth for trackdays only. A set of wheels is quite expensive, but they will hold their value and you will have the best of both worlds 8) Its also cheaper than finding yourself on ya bum through out using a road tyre on track!!! :D
* I use my track castoffs on the road to get that final bit of wear from them before admitting they are now truly dead and throwing them away! :D They 'work' fine (althoguh the 70 section front is a bit of a pain at slow speed).
Tyre profile / size must (IMHO) make a difference to how quickly you get to the edges of the tyres. I have just changed from an SV with Metzeler Z6's to a new GSX-R with Bridgestone BT014's, wider tyre, different profile. I have virtually no chicken strips left on these after just a couple of running-in rides and I'm not leaning any further than I was on the Z6's.
I don't think I've even been close to knee-down on them either but it just seems easier to get to the edge of the tyre.
Cheers,
Matt
Its not a good thing!! :D ... I have never seen you ride, but chances are that if you modified you riding style/body position, you would be asking a lot less from the bike/tyres for the same speed. How ‘fast’ would you say you are compared to the rest of your group (and what group do you go in?).
I'm probably one of the slowest round the track in Novice group but apparantly I do ok in the corners. Not good at overtaking at all.
Secondly, is your bike a pleasure bike or a workhorse? Proper track rubber won’t take too kindly to being used daily. That’s not to say it won’t work on the road*, but you will loose out on the track ...
Purely for pleasure although I use it probably 6 times a year to visit the folks which is a 230 mile round trip to Lincolnshire up the A1 which is why I got the Z6s/
I suggest you buy a spare set of wheels and put track/race rubber on them swapping them back and forth for trackdays only. A set of wheels is quite expensive, but they will hold their value and you will have the best of both worlds 8) Its also cheaper than finding yourself on ya bum through out using a road tyre on track!!! :D
* I use my track castoffs on the road to get that final bit of wear from them before admitting they are now truly dead and throwing them away! :D They 'work' fine (althoguh the 70 section front is a bit of a pain at slow speed).
No way can I afford to do that! Reckon what I should do is use the tyres I got and sort out my hang off method, then when they've gone get some sports rubber. Reckon the thing that influenced my choice the most was Bike magazine's tyre pullout from a few months back. Maybe I'll get Michelin tyres with the dual compound?!
Blue_SV650S
20-06-07, 12:16 PM
If you are one of the slower riders in the novice group, then sports-touring tyres will be ample. You probably wouldn't work track compound tyres enough to get/keep the heat into them they need, certainly to get the best benefit, so better off with road tyres at this point anyway! 8)
So sounds like concentrating on honing your 'style' to get the bike leaning less for the same corner speed is the order of the day :)
When you get to the point where you are holding your own in inters, then consider better rubber, but with road use considered too, it sounds like road rubber (as long as they have plenty of life in them) makes more sense at this point! :)
Do you back the pressures off at all for the track? And do you have any photos we can analyse?? 8)
Yeah I done the tyre pressures as recommended by the tyre man-1 psi up on sports tyres both ends. Only pics I have are of second track day where I was absolutely pants so no point. Think I might be going wrong with the amount of space I put between me and the tank. Will try and not move backwards next time. Think we're doing Mallory Park next in August. That got some nice tight bends?
:)
Blue_SV650S
20-06-07, 12:35 PM
...
Stick them up anyway, its always good to see action photos!! :) You have already said you are no god (at the mo ;)), so its not like we will take the piddle or anything and if you want to reduce stress on the tyres, it will allow us to give tips/pointers where you can improve for you to consider next time 8)
Mallory has one VERY tight bend!! :D
weazelz
20-06-07, 12:42 PM
That got some nice tight bends? :)
it's got the tightest hairpin in the country, but that's not what you need for good cornering/kneedown. Gerrards on the other hand is the longest right-hander in the country & definitely a good knee-down candidate. it's also long enough that you can enter it not-so-fast & get settled, then build up your speed - & lean - through it
I wouldn't worry too much about your tyres .. how to put this .. they're a lot better at cornering than you are ;-) get some jack-up plates or rearsets if you want, get some thicker sliders, hang off the bike, relax, look though the corner & not at your kneeslider, go faster, & stick you knee out (out - not forward) & you'll get that skkkkrrrtttchhhh soon enough
Tim in Belgium
20-06-07, 07:22 PM
Yep, Mallory has a great selection of corners of all different types.
Another excuse to post a pic of me at Gerrards (On Pirelli Diablo Stradas, and before I had my suspension work done):
http://inlinethumb64.webshots.com/4159/2314313390084392296S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2314313390084392296EwuxZb)
get some jack-up plates or rearsets if you want,
Oh. Oh very dear. I didn't tell you I've got the lower Buell pegs on. Might that be the reason I couldn't lose my sliders their virginity? (PLEAS SAY YES AND I'LL FIND THE ORIGINALS!!!)
Regarding the tight corners, I do like Druids cos it's uniform. Finishes the same as it starts with no messing around.
:-s
Nice one Tim. Hopefully come August time I'll be able to post a pic of me like that! Oh yeah, I've dropped the yellow novice bib thing in case they do get a good pic!
:cool:
weazelz
22-06-07, 12:15 AM
Oh. Oh very dear. I didn't tell you I've got the lower Buell pegs on. Might that be the reason I couldn't lose my sliders their virginity? (PLEAS SAY YES AND I'LL FIND THE ORIGINALS!!!)
yes. go and find the originals
Regarding the tight corners, I do like Druids cos it's uniform. Finishes the same as it starts with no messing around. :-swell ... there's tight, & then there's *tight* at the Mallory hairpin:
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w171/weazelz/397651.jpg
see that white line on the track? well, that's the corner :-D
Bloody nora! The nice people down there seem to have mislayed a lump of shiny concrete on the apex too! Is that the bus stop? So the reason for my dismay is the low buell pegs in your opinion? Fitted them cos of my height. My legs literally don't fit within the tank indents without them! Definately wouldn't fit a curvy. Sat on one after I'd ordered my bike and worried. Sat on a thunder..something I think and it seemed massive! Done a lovely job with them low pegs too. Had to scour the Earth to get a gear linkage rod long enough to be comfortable. Got a brand new one for an old CBR600F for less than 4 quid in the end. Old pegs back on it is then and might have to up the dose of cod liver oil. Legs felt it after Brands. Could hardly walk for two days. Didn't realise it would be so physically demanding.
:)
weazelz
22-06-07, 01:52 AM
no, that's Shaw's Hairpin
http://www.mallorypark.co.uk/Portals/0/Mallory%20Circuit%202007%20Map%20copy.jpg
you can sort of see the bus stop behind me here:
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w171/weazelz/397723.jpg
if you're that short of space for your legs, it sounds like you really could do with some rearsets to move your feet back a few inches & give you some more space. they really do move your feet to the rear & not just up
Bugger me. I googled Mallory and not one course map labelled it as "bus stop" but just chicane.
Might try some of these (But right way up!):
http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/799/429040007001sizedos9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
I think you can get some offering even more positions. Cheaper than rearsets. Then I can flog my nicely engineered Buell pegs! Was looking at your pics on photobucket after the one you sent. Hope you don't mind. Your bike looked a bit of a state. You done a post on here about what happened? No wonder your rear is 2 inches out! Mechanic I know said they are easily straightened with a length of scaffold. Said he's done much bigger bikes without a subframe.
weazelz
22-06-07, 05:07 PM
Your bike looked a bit of a state. You done a post on here about what happened?
lol - that's the cumulative effect of rather a lot of crashes. I think the subframe mostly got bent when I looped the bike off the mountain & fell off the back. that's where the scrape on the top of the tank came from too. the particular damage in that photo is from an ~80mph highside at Lydden earlier in the year. looks worse than it is - just a flesh wound really ;-)
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