View Full Version : Metzler Z6's vs Pilot Road 2's
Well, I've now done just over 800 miles in all weathers & road types pretty much on the PR2s. Previous to this I've done approx 16k miles on Z6's.
Before I go any further, I have to stress that the handling of each bike is down to suspension just as much as it is tyres. I've tweaked my suspension a little, but I'm still running on stock hardware (except fork oil). Other peoples findings may vary.
Another cautionary note, I'm running the PR2s slightly above recommended pressures. The recommendation is 34/36, I'm running at 36/42. Why? That's the pressure I was running the Z6's at. This week I'll be dropping pressure down to the recommended ones to see how it fairs there too.
Right, the comparisons I've noticed....
From a cold start, the Z6's have a much better grip when going hard into corners. Most people let tyres warm up properly though, and as a general rule I do too, but there's times when I don't. I've found that it's pretty easy to slide the rear going hot into a corner & using engine braking on PR2s. Nothing heart stopping, but if you're not expecting it or used to the rear end sliding, could put some people off.
After allowing time to warm up (so far the PR2s have only had "cold start" issues within the first few minutes of riding, 5mins tops - but they also seem to cool quicker than the Z6s but maybe this is just that the Z6's were better when cold), the PR2s are quite keen to turn in, but more importantly are very "flickable."
The PR2s will turn into a corner with a small flick of the front wheel, most of the time you don't even need that (passive countersteering). They'll also flick back up in a heart beat, which has proven useful for random objects in the middle of the line. The Z6's didn't react as much, and more just went with the flow. Becuase of this, I reckon the PR2s would make better tyres in a city situation (though I haven't ridden many times where I've had to filter in heavy traffic). My riding style suits a tyre that does exactly what it's told, straight away, so the PR2s are better for me here.
Mid-corner, both the PR2s & the Z6's deal with changes of line perfectly well, but then, they're both modern tyres, so they should. The Z6's insipre confidence in the bends, but the PR2s blow them away for stability. The number of times I've come around corners looking in the inside mirror (to see traffic behind me) and I'm only able to see floor!! I've had KD on the Z6's, and this was visible from tyre wear. I've had the pegs down on the PR2s (on the A5 no less!) and still not gone anywhere near the edge of the tyre!! I still feel like I can always go over further on the PR2s, the Z6s felt on the limit.
On exit to the bend, the PR2s feel a lot more planted (possibly because of the dual compound setup) and I personally feel happier getting on the throttle sooner on the PR2s than the Z6s. Again, suits my riding.
On the brakes, both tyres give great feedback (the Z6s are better at higher pressures for feedback) and let you know in plenty of time before they let go of the tarmac. Again, modern tyres, you just have to know what the signs are. I recently tested the PR2s from silly speeds to almost complete stop (on the MIGTs ride). Stamping down the gearbox using engine braking as well as both front & rear, it felt like they were about to let go, but didn't, and stopped me in plenty of time.
Longevity? The Z6s are the best I've had yet, I've no idea yet about the PR2s, but they're still looking fairly new.
Anything I've missed out??
Nice one Baph, im getting my Z6's tommorow and your write up sounds like the Z6's will suit my style of riding.
I managed 7500miles from my D220's, what should i expect from the Z6's? I do ride on the motorway but only once every few months, apart from that it's A and B roads, how do they manage hope they don't flatten off easily?
Cheers Rich!!
During winter I was on the A55 (technically a motorway) twice a day every day, doing 50 miles each way. The Z6's stood up to this for around 8000miles at the rear end. They were well and truly square (as you'd expect) but I didn't see much point in changing them when all I was going to do was ride in a straight line again. I just adapted my riding to suit the tyre profile (expecting it to wriggle around etc).
HTH
Cheers Baph - Interesting read.
I'll be putting my first set of new tyres on in my ownership of the SV and will be going from Diablo's to PR2s I think. Not sure I'll be able to usefully review them as I tend to stay rather upright.
John 675
26-06-07, 06:14 PM
I was advised by the spannerman to go with the PR2's and after reading your review mate i think i should, all i know about the D220's is that i hate them, they are crap and i have no confidence in them what so ever . . .
will i see a massive difference from the stock tyres?
will i see a massive difference from the stock tyres?
That depends more on your riding style & suspension setup TBH. If SpannerMan is fitting PR2s, get him to put upgrade/uprated oil in your forks (takes all of 30mins tops and will cost sod all). Also ask him to setup the suspension for your weight (unless you're happy doing this yourself). Once that's done...
I found the difference from the D220's to the Z6's amazing. By the end of the life on the 220's, I was pushing the bike a bit too hard to be honest for the rubber it had. The 220's aren't that crap, but they are once you start pushing things.
Then I took a gamble & went for the PR2s, and was amazed how much more stable they are mid bend. I'm not sure yet if that's come at the price of longevity (and I won't know for a couple of months).
However, I think you need to look closely at your riding style. Please bare in mind that my bike spends a long time in twisties, and that cold starting on the PR2s aren't that great. If you get PR2s, definitely take it easy for a couple of miles (5mins from leaving home is probably 4mins 30secs at 50mph+ for me).
If you ride quite hard pretty much all the time, PR2s. If you don't, especially with winter fast approaching, at least give the Z6's some more consideration. Will you be done with a set of tyres before November?
My longevity test for PR2s will have to be put on hold unfortunately.
The reason for this is that the rear is now full of TyreWeld, and will be changed to a Z6 in a couple of hours.
I'll get the PR2 sent off for repairs, and get it re-fitted to continue the testing later.
OK, so now I have a little more info on the comparisons of these tyres.
I rode from work to the tyre place with all of 8psi... wohoo! The rear end was all over the place, but that's been sent off for repairs now, and it'll be fitted again soon.
I set off homeward from the tyre shop, in the slight rain, with the floor being throughly wet! Please note, I was riding pretty hard for the conditions, so making the tyres work hard!
The Z6's when you turn on the tap, like to stand up. You can make them stay down and lay the power on, but they don't appreciate it, and it's a good way to get little wiggles of complaint.
The PR2s also aren't as fussed about manhole covers/paint whilst cranked over - I put this down to the tread pattern. The Z6's are more lateral (perpendicular to motion), whereas the PR2s are more at a 45degree angle.
This morning, no rain, and I'm still not happy with the Z6 rear PR2 front combination. The PR2 feels like it has more grip than a gecko's foot, the rear is comparatively on ice (and it's only a couple of weeks old!!). Don't get me wrong, the Z6 is still a very apt tyre, but give me the PR2s any day.
I think I'm finally converted fully!!
EDIT: Oh yea, I also ran the PR2s at the recommended pressures for a while (34/36). All I'll say about that experience is that I seriously thought that I was going to kill myself. The rubber on the tyres moved around SOOOO much it was stupid. Perhaps that's because I was running higher pressures to start with? I don't know, but I know I won't be following manufacturers recommendations for tyre pressures on PR2s!!
So there's me wanting to save a few quid on my next set of tyres and just stick some mile munchers on and now you're effectively telling me that if I do I'll just be wasting the rest of the bike.
*2mths starts counting pennies*
So there's me wanting to save a few quid on my next set of tyres and just stick some mile munchers on and now you're effectively telling me that if I do I'll just be wasting the rest of the bike.
*2mths starts counting pennies*
Not at all Andy.
The Z6's are great tyres. Very predictable, very stable. Wet or dry, excellent grip. The Z6's are also a LOT better during the first few miles of use, as they seem to warm up quicker.
However, ramp up the speed a little (ok, a fair whack), and PR2s can carry much higher corner speed and allow you to open the throttle sooner.
Horses for corses, and I suspect many many people wouldn't even notice the difference. Please note, that when the Z6 started to give, I reckon I was probably riding a tad too fast for the conditions anyway.
I'm still to see what the PR2s do in the winter as well, and I have no idea about their longevity (other than what I have heard).
Baph - Any update the the longevity - ie mileage on the PR2s?
I picked up a puncture yesterday so it's tyre crunch time. A new Diablo for the rear or a set or PR2s
MeridiaNx
04-08-07, 12:32 PM
I believe from another post that Baph iscurrently indisposed and not posting. But I'm on Pr2s as well, had to change the rear after a nail @ 1500ish miles so they're not a perfectly matched mileage set as it were. I imagine I've now done nearly 4k on the front, 2.5k on the rear. All holding up well and little, if any, noticeable wear.
That's just from recololection mind. If you want I'll go grab a couple of piccies to show wear on each tyre...but otherwise, still highly recommended. Check out a thread mainly posted in by Lylej, Baph and myself on PR2s somewhere for more impressions on them IMO.
petevtwin650
05-08-07, 04:34 PM
We've just completed 3,000 miles on our rear PR2. Plenty of tread left, whereas with the Diablos we'd be looking at replacing it. Plus the confidence they give me is greater.
gettin2dizzy
09-08-07, 10:52 AM
Just got my PR2s on. Not as big a difference to the D220s as I was expecting. First thing I noticed was the weight of the bars! They seemed to weigh a ton! - Then I realised that's what feedback is :) With the 220s you really got none of that. Having round tyres seems to make the biggest difference, but they do hold a line beautifully! I was close enough for knee down action after 25miles!
I think I'm finally converted fully!!
I have them on my Daytona 955i, I'm a convert too. Mine feel like supersports tyres, yet the wear has been minimal in 5000 miles. It's not like I'm going easy either, the bike gets caned whenever I get a chance
EDIT: Oh yea, I also ran the PR2s at the recommended pressures for a while (34/36). All I'll say about that experience is that I seriously thought that I was going to kill myself. The rubber on the tyres moved around SOOOO much it was stupid. Perhaps that's because I was running higher pressures to start with? I don't know, but I know I won't be following manufacturers recommendations for tyre pressures on PR2s!!
John Baines of Baines Racing (Ducati tuning and racing gurus) advised me to run 2 to 3 psi lower pressures than Triumph recommended for the OE Bridgestones. He told me this was because Michelins run quite stiff sidewalls and a lower pressure compensated for this and allowed the tyre to move a little, which it needs to do.
gettin2dizzy
10-08-07, 02:18 PM
I take it back - they're ace! feel so so planted in the corners. Every roundabout is friggin ace!
Waiting for a call back from a tyre place to see what price they can do them for. Fingers crossed.
gettin2dizzy
10-08-07, 02:30 PM
i got mine £169 + £20 for fitting if that's any help. Other quotes I got were around the 180 mark
therealvw
20-08-07, 03:47 AM
Got mine put on at the weekend. Michelins
They replaced a Z4 and a Z6 with BAD wear on the right side. Bike was bought off a garage about 4 months ago, my first bike and so I didn't really notice the squared off tyres. Felt them though, wasn't very confidenceinspiring going into right handers. Left ones were ok compared though.
The new tyres are amazing. The way it goes into a corner is SOOOO much better than the ones I had on before. Pressure is 36 Rear 32 Front. Think I might increase that slightly due to reading some topics on this forum and others. Did a nice 40k round trip to give them a bit of a scrubbing in. Not too sure how long this will take, any ideas?!? They look a whole lot better too. Somehow seem look 'proper'. Hard to put into words but the way they fit the bike just looks better.
ONE thing though that is sort of worrying me They only had a Pilot Road 2 in the correct size for the front, and a Pilot Road for the rear. The guys in the garage said the only real difference will be the wear of the tyres. Any ideas?
Pressure is 36 Rear 32 Front. Think I might increase that slightly due to reading some topics on this forum and others.
I'm running mine at very close to Front:33 Rear:36. I've seen stuff about running higher (generally not just these tyres) but I think that caused premature failure of my last rear.
I think Baph is the main commenter about upping pressures. I've now ridden my Diablo's at 36/42 and now the PR2s at 33/36. The front does perhaps 'move' a little bit but I'm quite happy with that. It's what I'd call feedback.
Did a nice 40k round trip to give them a bit of a scrubbing in. Not too sure how long this will take, any ideas?!?
I did a very gentle 30 mile trip. Then 70 miles taking it relatively easy round one of my routes. Then a harder trip round that same route. I was out on the Revolutions ride yesterday in the rain and err 'giving it some' and no problems. So build up gently and I think you'll be fine.
petevtwin650
20-08-07, 08:10 AM
Running 34/36 here on my PR2's Remember 36 on my gauge may be 32 or 40 or somebody elses, so it's worth experimenting a bit. They do feel good. What's quite telling is that I have to ride up a wooden ramp to put the bike indoors and when it's wet the old Diablos and 010's would spin up but the rear just grips and makes it so much easier.
About 4k so far, so at least 30% more mileage for only 12% more cost.
therealvw
20-08-07, 09:30 PM
Thanks for the info on the scrubbing in. Will experiment a little with the tyre pressures, but to be honest they feel that much better than the old tyres that I'm just happy! :-)
Has anyone had Conti Road Attacks in the past which they can compare them with? Ive just finished a set of Contis at about 5-5.5k (cant quite remember what mileage was on when i bought them but theyre definitely finished now) They were excellent for 4k and then in the last 1k they seem to have worn quickly however that may be due to the surfaces of Northern Scotland being extremely coarse! (Also done about 2k of wet motorway miles in there) Im tempted to go for the Contis at £165 but the Pilot Road 2s are £195 and wondering whether i should try these instead
I've read over here that you guys experienced slow warming up from PR2's. Was wondering if that would be an issue here in Malta since we have higher temperatures? The tyres here in Malta stay looking brand new as they don't get abrasion from the road surface which lacks any shellgrip like you've got in your roads. Here the surface looks shiny and slippy. The problem is that the rubber heats up a lot here becoming sort of plasticey and by time starts to evolve many small cracks upon its surface.
TimTucker
10-09-07, 09:39 PM
Has anyone had Conti Road Attacks in the past which they can compare them with? Ive just finished a set of Contis at about 5-5.5k (cant quite remember what mileage was on when i bought them but theyre definitely finished now) They were excellent for 4k and then in the last 1k they seem to have worn quickly however that may be due to the surfaces of Northern Scotland being extremely coarse! (Also done about 2k of wet motorway miles in there) Im tempted to go for the Contis at £165 but the Pilot Road 2s are £195 and wondering whether i should try these instead
Rob, I've gone from Contis to PR2s. I got almost 6.5k out of them in 15 months. A lot of London commuting, then mostly A-roads and shortish blasts on motorways.
They were a complete revelation after the stock Dunlops, as you can imagine. I've had the PR2s on since June and they've done about a thousand miles since then, 99% of it commuting.
I'm not 100% convinced by them. Sometimes I think they're great, other times I'm not so sure. I definitely think they do need longer to warm up than the Contis. The PR2s also, to me, feel a little more reluctant to drop into corners than the Contis, but the Michelins give great confidence when applying power leant over. Not that I get much opportunity to do that in south-east London.
I decided to replace both front and rear when I got the Michelins, as there were some strange looking cracks appearing in the front and I didn't want to mix and match.
We'll see what the wear is like, but from all accounts it will be better than the Contis, which might the Michelins better value for money in the long run.
plowsie
19-09-07, 10:56 PM
Cheers for pointing me to this one Baph, now to decide whats better for me lol.
Well i decided to stick with what I know and bought another set of Contis. They are still amazing tyres, even if the PR2s get more mileage - you'll be hard pressed to have more confidence or feedback with anything else...
plowsie
20-09-07, 07:59 AM
Well i decided to stick with what I know and bought another set of Contis. They are still amazing tyres, even if the PR2s get more mileage - you'll be hard pressed to have more confidence or feedback with anything else...
put IMO opinion on the enda that please lol, otherwise you open a can of worms.
Thinking that due to me not going to be doing very many long miles anymore throughout the winter, gonna have the Z6s mainly down to the fact that my journey to work has a couple of bends that need to be held up in rain(if you get my drift). My commute is only sorta 10 mins and the first five is where these bends are. If however it was sorta the time when i would go out to play for a few hours i may go for the PR2s but i think this winter i am staying in hibernation as much as i can lol.
dont forget the roadattacks
plowsie
20-09-07, 08:19 AM
dont forget the roadattacks
Your missing half a sig ;)
Aye Hovis, the Conti's are RAs. Plowsie, IMO they are the b*****ks! Z6 dont look as nice either ;)
Sticks UK
20-09-07, 08:19 PM
so the current tyre of choice is?
all sorts of shapes at cadwell this morning in the wet on the original dunlop d220 st tyres (sv650k3). they are truly awful. glad it dried after 2 sessions.
plowsie
21-09-07, 08:56 AM
so the current tyre of choice is?
Read the whole thread mate....
This one is dedicated to the comparison of the Z6's and Pilot Road 2's, if you look in tyres section(like i didnt) you will find some very different points of view and write ups on certain tyres, you may be able to gather from that what you want or need/require.
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