View Full Version : 33BHP - Do you need a certificate?
I've got my SV coming in the next week or so, got my test in about two weeks. I was wondering if i need to have the restriction fitted by a proper engineer so i can get a certificate.
I dont feel like splashing out a hundred odd quid more just for a peice of paper, especially if i dont need it. And with the guides on here i'm sure i could get it right.
anyone know the proper law behind it?
redlavachips
25-06-07, 08:55 AM
yes :winner:
Alpinestarhero
25-06-07, 09:01 AM
Well, it seems to be a grey area. Insurance companies dont ask for it, infact, they dont even ask if you are restricted in the first place, even if you are under 21. But in the event of an accident, the investigating police officer may ask for proof of your restriction - this is where its important to have the certificate, and the support of the place where you got the bike restricted.
It may be that a dyno print out would suffice, showing your machine to be 33 bhp or less. I guess a police officer could take your bike away and also get it checked out for themselves.
Anyway, I paid the full monty and got mine restricted at a proper bike worksohp, with a certificate and everything - i dont want to even take a chance the long arm of the law!
Matt
yea, thought that might be the case. I'm guessing a dyno run would probably bump the cost up anyway. Thanks for the info.
I did it the proper way certificate and everything when I did this a number of years ago.
Personally if I had to go through the same situation again I would not bother. So long as the bike is legal (Ie it is restriced properly) and you have some way of demonstrating that (ie an ECU unit which is marked with the Suzuki part no. that is verifiably a restricted ECU) I don't see as a certificate matters much.
I did get stopped by the police during my restricted time. I was riding down the M1 with no lights (in the dark). They could have done me if they wanted to for that. They checked the docs I was carrying - including my license which showed I was restricted, gave me a producer for my docs (wasn't carrying insurance info) and a vehicle rectification note (for my lights) but did not say or ask anything about the restriction or any certification for it.
Having spent a day with the police yesterday, although I didn't ask this question, the impression I got is that this sort of thing probably wouldn't register on their radar unless you got into an accident and were a possible cause. In that situation though they would be more interested in breathalising you, because they are required to. So long as you had a license, tax and insurance I'd be supprised if the subject came up.
I would NOT ride an unrestricted bike on a restricted license.
My opinion only of course.
yea, definatly not going to be riding unrestricted.
Problem is the bike is a k2 curvy, so its going to be the more techy restriction. I can see the ease of having a certificate, but i'm just tight :D. That restriction is half an Ixil can....
Arguabley a change from stock can would invalidate the certificate anyway (not saying anyone would pick up on it just that the kits are for 'standard' bikes).
Being an old fart (27) I am concerend that anyone looking to save money on one aspect to spend on a can would end up in tears.
hehe, was just kidding. I've already now decided to get the kit fitted and get a nice certificate. Just wanted a few other views on it.
thankyou.
Hmm you go up in my estimation. Not sure that that's for anything, indeed it might not even be a postitive in the opinion of the masses but I thought I'd share that with you all the same.
Unfortunatly i feel i have something to live for. So a GSXR was out of the question. Secondly ive spent the last year and a half riding a 4 stroke yamaha xt125, top speed 69mph (down a hill with the wind behind). So riding illegally de-restricted didnt sound to clever. Lastly, I'm just about to become a special constable. So leaving my unrestricted (illegal) bike in the car park of leicesters main police station really was just asking for trouble.
All in all, I've got two years to save money for all the lovely bits of plastic and metal i want to stick to it.
yorkie_chris
25-06-07, 11:56 PM
I've got the restrictors fitted (suzuki kit) but no cert.
Rang local plod who looked on database, he couldn't find any law saying how the bike has to be restricted.
Rang insurance, their words "so many bikes are sold restricted without papers, we dont need to see the paperwork, but if you claim our engineers will check that it is restricted"
Local bike shop said "FI international state that you need a certificate and a sticker on your frame, you need to get your bike on their central records otherwise you have no insurance.." etc etc. (local bike shop also said using car oil will blow up my engine...)
So, am I going to get shot for not giving FI international £75?
northwind
26-06-07, 12:04 AM
"so many bikes are sold restricted without papers, we dont need to see the paperwork, but if you claim our engineers will check that it is restricted"
Yup, this is more or less how it works, unless the Police get involved, when being unable to produce documentation can be sticky. This seems to be very, very rare though. For insurance purposes, they only usually start paying attention after a claim, and they can verify it easily enough when they have the bike (and yes, folks, insurers certainly do check, it's worth paying a mechanic for an hour's labour to check the carb slides, throttle stops, ECU or whatever it may be, if it stops them having to pay out on an insurance claim)
ANyone who tells you "You're not insured" is wrong, btw, and you should take that into account when deciding who to listen to ;) You're still insured, you're just committing insurance fraud, which is potentially much worse. Your third party insurance can't be invalidated by your actions, that's the law and quite right, but the insurance company will almost certainly take legal action against you. Insurance fraud does not look good on your CV, and it'll make it interesting getting insurance in future- not to mention the fact that they'll try and recover any costs from you.
In other words, it's The Shaft. Wee bit off topic, but it's maybe worth mentioning for others reading.
yorkie_chris
26-06-07, 12:07 AM
Yes but;
I'm not claiming to have a certificate (so not a false declaration), I'm claiming the bike is restricted (which it is, suzuki 33bhp sliders fitted, by me)
So basically, is it a legal requirement to have proof? hence is the restriction cert included in the "failure to produce" offence?
And heres something else for a resident legal expert, fitting an aftermarket can, which could possibly make 34bhp instead of 33bhp, has anyone had problems with this? possible problems which could arise? Personally I would see this area as so grey that it would be easy to contest in court...
northwind
26-06-07, 01:01 AM
So basically, is it a legal requirement to have proof? hence is the restriction cert included in the "failure to produce" offence?
Failure to produce is probably an offence- it did used to be, but that might have changed. But that's not the same as being legally required to have it. Ah, how glad am I that I stopped dealing with legal stuff :)
(local bike shop also said using car oil will blow up my engine...)
No it'll just mess up your clutch.
As for the exhaust - If you went the certificate route I think you'd be fine as you now have your piece of paper. If you go the DIY route I'd worry you were asking for trouble, unless you say got the bike Dyno'd which might show good faith.
jamesw1024
26-06-07, 07:34 AM
If it helps I had mine (K3) restricted by the Triumph dealer I bought it off second hand, I haven't got a certificate but I have got the original CDI unit so I can be pretty sure it's been done.
As far as I'm aware the certificate is a bit of a voluntary scheme - not law but they try to make it out that it is. If you had to claim surely they'd just pop the CDI unit off and check the model number?
i got the bill for the restrictor kit this morning.
£200 including labour. good job i just got paid.
yorkie_chris
26-06-07, 09:57 AM
Car oil will only mess up your clutch if its an 'energy saving' oil, the majority of them are fine.
Looks like I should get mine dyno'd then.
I do believe if you give the coppers reason to believe that you are illegally running a derestricted bike then the worst they can do is take you to a dyno station anyway, and my worry is that my 'can has pushed mine to 34bhp, though whether they would take that to court or not is another question.
Flamin_Squirrel
26-06-07, 11:30 AM
Car oil will only mess up your clutch if its an 'energy saving' oil, the majority of them are fine.
Looks like I should get mine dyno'd then.
I do believe if you give the coppers reason to believe that you are illegally running a derestricted bike then the worst they can do is take you to a dyno station anyway, and my worry is that my 'can has pushed mine to 34bhp, though whether they would take that to court or not is another question.
Dynos aren't precise peices of kit. Even if your bike did register 34bhp, considering an unrestricted bike makes twice that, it couldn't really be argued that you'd not restricted it - you'd just be arguing the toss about whether the dyno was accurate.
yorkie_chris
26-06-07, 02:24 PM
Good point, might even be 32hp on a hot day and 34 when its cold.
I think I'm alright anyway, my insurance is fine and if the police couldn't find a law telling me I must have a certificate then I doubt I'm going to get done for it.
Be right, I'm doing the right thing anyway, there's enough people running with perfectly legit certificates and the kits removed (cue the :smt014 war about that one)
I should probably be more worried about the baffle which accidentally fell out of my exhaust lol
By the way; 200 quid!!! you poor sod! I paid 30 for my secondhand 33hp throttle slides!
Yup, this is more or less how it works, unless the Police get involved, when being unable to produce documentation can be sticky. .
Failure to produce is probably an offence- it did used to be, but that might have changed. But that's not the same as being legally required to have it. Ah, how glad am I that I stopped dealing with legal stuff :)
As far as i know there is no legal requirement to have documentation to say the bike is restricted. IF and big if you get stopped and they want proof then they will have to check with Suzuki on the part number of the ECU etc.
I am 99% sure the cert is not even on a producer form. And as it is no legal requirement to have the relevent document the police can never tell if it is or isnt restricted unless they inspect it.
it is actuallly quite a big flaw in documentation.
and i have said many times even if you were riding on full powere and got stopped they cant tell with out an inspection, or on an off if it is ECU you have plenty of time to replace the ECU before the assesors come around.
the fact that insurers dont ask for or enquire about the cert really says it all that its not a legal requirement as part of normal documentation. what about all the second hand bikes sold to people with restrictions, no legal requirement to hand over the cert !!
i got the bill for the restrictor kit this morning.
£200 including labour. good job i just got paid.
WTF!!!:confused: how much, they saw you comming if it was for a K3 or above as its a 5 min job to swap ECU's !!
Wideboy
26-06-07, 08:35 PM
k3 and above is 100 for the ecu thingy and carb'ed is 150, 60-80 labour for carb'ed and ecu is virtually nothing as all it involves is unplugging old one and plugging in new one they tell you any other price then they're stitching you up thats the price from Suzuki and FI international. you can get you full power ecu and carb sliders back but you have to sign a declaration to say if the bike is found to have them put back in the dealer takes no responsibility
as for the insurance side technically your not insured on a restricted bike but on a full power how ever if you had a smash on full power bike im 99.9% sure that they wouldn't pay up
I am 99% sure the cert is not even on a producer form. And as it is no legal requirement to have the relevent document the police can never tell if it is or isnt restricted unless they inspect it.
My experiance would appear to confirm this. I got given a producer whilst restriced and the restriction certificate was not required.
Car oil will only mess up your clutch if its an 'energy saving' oil, the majority of them are fine.
If we're getting more and more precise on this I belive it's friction inhibitors that cause the problem. I've no idea what an 'energy saving' oil is but I would agree you're more likely to find such additives in more expensive oils. but then I wouldn't stick cheap oil in my bike.
yorkie_chris
26-06-07, 09:18 PM
yeah friction inhibitors, oils containing these generally advertise accordingly with such slogans as "energy saving."
With the 33bhp law it really annoys me that FI international repeatedly state in their literature that their kits cannot be moved from one bike over to another, implying that to do so would be breaking some major law!
Most bike shops believe this which has conveniently made FI a monopoly for themselves To the cost of everyone else
toonyank
26-06-07, 10:30 PM
hehe, was just kidding. I've already now decided to get the kit fitted and get a nice certificate. Just wanted a few other views on it.
thankyou.
Is yours a pointy or a curvy? If it's a curvy there is a link to de-restrict so obvoiusly it's the reverse. Pointy or curvy if you can do the work yourself, you could save yourself the labour and just have it certified on a dyno. It's bound to be cheaper. The link below it's for cardbed ones and is near the bottom.
http://www.sv650.org/sv_faq.htm
There is no certificate required. A piece of paper is no proof of anything. It is OK till it goes wrong and then IF the bike is inspected it will be found to be restricted so no problem. Don't get ripped off by anyone - you fitted them yourself and it is a done job. Good lad.
yorkie_chris
26-06-07, 10:57 PM
This is what common sense told me, was just quite keen on being certain there isn't a law saying otherwise!
Just to clear up, it was a curvy. The garage I'm getting it from is ordering the parts in and getting it done. should be ready by monday. Just gotta pass my test on friday, and we will be off.
Probably would be best to do it myself, but whats done is done. I'll make sure i remove it myself in two years time, and hopefully the bike shouldnt have to see the garage except for proper services, so i can try and reap back cash by looking after her well and by meself.
Thanks again for the views and info.
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