View Full Version : a day off for me tomorrow
kwak zzr
28-06-07, 01:58 PM
seriously guys/gals dont post mail tonight or tomorrow it will just sit in a mail box and go nowhere and it will get more change of getting set fire to or someone putting their Friday night curry in there.
im off tomorrow afternoon, are we supposed to be doing something together? i forget...
Disgraceful. Mail workers are going on strike supposedly to preserve their jobs. Huge inconvenience to the public, and no benefit to postal workers - going on strike will simply hasten the redundancies. Look what happened to the miners. How is the rest of the world supposed to do business with letters sat in letter boxes? I don't suppose that the strike leaders really care.
Jelster
28-06-07, 02:30 PM
Huge inconvenience to the public, and no benefit to postal workers - going on strike will simply hasten the redundancies. Look what happened to the miners. How is the rest of the world supposed to do business with letters sat in letter boxes? I don't suppose that the strike leaders really care.
But yes, I have to agree.....
.
Luckypants
28-06-07, 02:32 PM
I have never understood the logic in going on strike 'to save jobs' - if a company is in financial straits or losing out to the opposition, how is striking going to help that situation? If the company goes under, ALL the jobs go.
Spiderman
28-06-07, 03:10 PM
Disgraceful. Mail workers are going on strike supposedly to preserve their jobs. Huge inconvenience to the public, and no benefit to postal workers - going on strike will simply hasten the redundancies. Look what happened to the miners. How is the rest of the world supposed to do business with letters sat in letter boxes? I don't suppose that the strike leaders really care.
OMG, what will we do without the postal service for a few days. Oh hang on, we'll just send emails instead! ;)
lol. I know that isnt the answer for some industries but Ed do they not do DX over you way, or is that still relaint on the postal service to a large extent???
eviltwin
28-06-07, 03:25 PM
It might do well to remember that people do not go on strike for the fun of it - remember strike means no pay. If the reference to the miners is in relation to the 84 action, remember workers were on strike for a whole year, eating in soup kitches and relying on hand outs, watching their communities be destroyed.
How is the rest of the world supposed to do business with letters sat in letter boxes? I don't suppose that the strike leaders really care.
Precisely the point of a strike.
As I understand it, Kwak might be able to say, there wouldn't be strike leaders - the CWU is presumably carrying out the will of its (privately) balloted members
i know a lot of posties where i live and iv been told that royal mail have discovered a hole in the pension pot and need to top it up. apparently they have been asked to do households and work overtime for free so they can put the money back in.
...everybody out!
kwak zzr
28-06-07, 03:59 PM
i know a lot of posties where i live and iv been told that royal mail have discovered a hole in the pension pot and need to top it up. apparently they have been asked to do households and work overtime for free so they can put the money back in.
...everybody out!
this is correct, the hole in the pension fund was due to royal mail dipping into it and not putting it back.
kwak zzr
28-06-07, 04:01 PM
they also want to cut basic pay by 25% they say we are all overpaid,
just yesterday the managers in out office all got bonuses ranging from 1.7k to 20k each, how about that for a business making no money.
kwak zzr
28-06-07, 04:03 PM
truth is the royal mail will soon be privatized and the price of posting your letter is going to rocket.
so as britain can now see posties (me being an ex one..thank god) never go on strike just because of wanting more pay. royal mail are good are not telling the whole story
100% behind them all...always :thumbsup:
No I don't have DX but I'm investigating.
Businesses rely on the post, a lot of people don't use electronic communication, yes even in 2007. I generally receive between 30 - 40 items of post a day.
I for one have no sympathy with these people. Pension? How nice to have one. I can't accept greedy managers with snouts in the trough, paying bonuses is not acceptable in these circumstances, but the fact is that if talented people aren't properly rewarded then they will walk.
I fail to see what this strike will achieve. Most postal workers won't want to break the strike for fear of being labelled 'scab' and will accept the lost wages because of this. I think that postal workers are simply accelerating the inevitable.
Steve H
29-06-07, 08:03 AM
Ed, DX is a good move. Reliable and most Lawyers are now using it.
As for the Postal strike, being a Postman is not 'rocket science' and quite frankly, they could be replaced by any number of people or in actual fact, trained Monkeys!
I do not see how striking in this instance is the answer, whatever their motives. :smt017
Sorry if my views upset any Postal staff, but hey, thats life.
The very fact that we are discussing this proves the point of the strike.
It is just one day, no business will close in one day due to a leter not arriving ..... and the posties have created an opportunity to be heard by doing this, bingo! Don't know the in's and out's of the dispute but if they feel this is the only way to be heard, then so be it.
As for the pension .... too many companies are doing this, surely it is illegal! There is a factory locally and I know men who have paid into a pension for 25 years and more, and are now being told that its not there .... WTF. Sort it out, if striking brings it to light then good, this is theft in my eyes.
:nomore:
Steve H
29-06-07, 08:29 AM
The very fact that we are discussing this proves the point of the strike.
It is just one day, no business will close in one day due to a leter not arriving ..... and the posties have created an opportunity to be heard by doing this, bingo! Don't know the in's and out's of the dispute but if they feel this is the only way to be heard, then so be it.
As for the pension .... too many companies are doing this, surely it is illegal! There is a factory locally and I know men who have paid into a pension for 25 years and more, and are now being told that its not there .... WTF. Sort it out, if striking brings it to light then good, this is theft in my eyes.
:nomore:
Tomcat, You Commie. ;)
MiniMatt
29-06-07, 08:29 AM
Seriously consider DX, it doesn't replace everything obviously and from my days at a law firm (one close to a particularly militant post office) strikes still certainly hurt but I was very much under the impression that just about everything sent legal-to-legal was sent DX. Even the Land Reg has a DX number.
As for the strike, fair play to them; this isn't the 70s, people don't strike on a whim. One day we'll regret the death of the unions.
As for the strike, fair play to them; this isn't the 70s, people don't strike on a whim. One day we'll regret the death of the unions.
+1
kwak zzr
29-06-07, 09:25 AM
ive paid £20 per week into my pension for 18 year and for what? it may be worth nothing? nearly 19k disappearing fast:(
kwak zzr
29-06-07, 09:30 AM
they could be replaced by any number of people or in actual fact, trained Monkeys!
is this why the royal mail are finding it increasingly difficult to employ good delivery men? would you walk the streets 6 days a week in wind, rain and snow for £319.38 gross per week?
and when you talk about postal workers the indoor staff (me) could not be replaced by monkeys, do you know what we do? do you know what you are talking about before you shout about it?
kwak zzr
29-06-07, 09:36 AM
No I don't have DX but I'm investigating.
Businesses rely on the post, a lot of people don't use electronic communication, yes even in 2007. I generally receive between 30 - 40 items of post a day.
I for one have no sympathy with these people. Pension? How nice to have one. I can't accept greedy managers with snouts in the trough, paying bonuses is not acceptable in these circumstances, but the fact is that if talented people aren't properly rewarded then they will walk.
I fail to see what this strike will achieve. Most postal workers won't want to break the strike for fear of being labelled 'scab' and will accept the lost wages because of this. I think that postal workers are simply accelerating the inevitable.
i totally sympathize with you Ed, the CWU didnt want this to happen either
and everyone knows how this will effect businesses, the regulator and the royal mail has left no option and i can personally see this going on for a long time, you could use another Carrier but they just give it to the RM to deliver anyway? by the way Mr Leighton and crosier have annual salary's of in excess of 1M and still say the company is making no money.
Steve H
29-06-07, 09:42 AM
is this why the royal mail are finding it increasingly difficult to employ good delivery men? would you walk the streets 6 days a week in wind, rain and snow for £319.38 gross per week?
and when you talk about postal workers the indoor staff (me) could not be replaced by monkeys, do you know what we do? do you know what you are talking about before you shout about it?
Yes, I would. I would like to have the stress, worry free task of delivering letters in inclement weather for £319.38 gpw. but know that the Postal service is a pretty 'closed shop'
I know one or two postman pretty well. They lead the 'Life of Riley' Fact.
kwak zzr
29-06-07, 10:02 AM
"life of riley" i must meet these two.
Jelster
29-06-07, 10:05 AM
Ed, you hit a number of nails right on the head there....
No I don't have DX but I'm investigating.
Businesses rely on the post, a lot of people don't use electronic communication, yes even in 2007. I generally receive between 30 - 40 items of post a day.
I for one have no sympathy with these people. Pension? How nice to have one. I can't accept greedy managers with snouts in the trough, paying bonuses is not acceptable in these circumstances, but the fact is that if talented people aren't properly rewarded then they will walk.
I fail to see what this strike will achieve. Most postal workers won't want to break the strike for fear of being labelled 'scab' and will accept the lost wages because of this. I think that postal workers are simply accelerating the inevitable.
And the relevance of the miners to this is what ?
The miners strike was politically motivated to try and bring down the Tory government, and at the same time, progress the ego of Arthur Scargill. Both of which failed because the Miners were wrong. The country cannot employ people if there is no work to do, which is very different in the case of Post Office workers.
Arthur who ??
Jelster
29-06-07, 10:12 AM
As for the pension .... too many companies are doing this, surely it is illegal! There is a factory locally and I know men who have paid into a pension for 25 years and more, and are now being told that its not there ....
In most cases, a company pays a % of an employees salary into a pension scheme on the understanding that said employee does the same. It's a benefit, not an obligation. When a company says "we need that money" there are two things to consider:
1) If the company needs the cash, it's to keep the business running. You could have your pension, but won't have a job....
2) The money that the employee pays in is safe, the employer can only get their hands on what they have paid in. So it wasn't the employees money anyway (in real terms). I know that they may have been expecting a a decent pension, but then you should read the small print when you sign on the dotted line...
.
kwak zzr
29-06-07, 10:19 AM
RM pay no contributions anymore.
Jelster
29-06-07, 10:20 AM
RM pay no contributions anymore.
So what they are "claiming" back is what they had previously ?
.
kwak zzr
29-06-07, 10:29 AM
yes, they used to pay good contributions in to pensions but it stopped when saving money became there objective and borrowed large amounts of money from the pension pot they couldnt repay.
Steve H
29-06-07, 10:33 AM
yes, they used to pay good contributions in to pensions but it stopped when saving money became there objective and borrowed large amounts of money from the pension pot they couldnt repay.
So on top of your gpw earnings, you were receiving a contribution towards your pension? :smt017
Where do I sign up? :thumright:
In most cases, a company pays a % of an employees salary into a pension scheme on the understanding that said employee does the same. It's a benefit, not an obligation. When a company says "we need that money" there are two things to consider:
1) If the company needs the cash, it's to keep the business running. You could have your pension, but won't have a job....
2) The money that the employee pays in is safe, the employer can only get their hands on what they have paid in. So it wasn't the employees money anyway (in real terms). I know that they may have been expecting a a decent pension, but then you should read the small print when you sign on the dotted line...
.
So what they are "claiming" back is what they had previously ?
.
RM pay no contributions anymore.
yes, they used to pay good contributions in to pensions but it stopped when saving money became there objective and borrowed large amounts of money from the pension pot they couldnt repay.
as i understand it, employer's contributions to a pension fund for employees is part of the benefits for the employee like getting a company car etc. i think lots of people accept getting a crapper salary in return for a decent pension contribution, seems unfair if you put up with the rubbish pay and then get your pension taken away
Steve H
29-06-07, 10:37 AM
"life of riley" i must meet these two.
I'm not saying that Postal staff don't work hard. Just that in the scheme of
things, it is not really a skilled profession and of course the problem with this is being able to be replaced quite easily (Eastern European migrants for instance)
Again, whether rightly or wrongly, if a business is 'struggling' how is making the service worse really helping matters?
we had a royal mail delivery today at work.
is our postie a scab?
kwak zzr
29-06-07, 10:39 AM
So on top of your gpw earnings, you WERE receiving a contribution towards your pension? :smt017
Were do I sign up? :thumright:
yes WERE receiving contributions but now thats stopped, the royal mail used to be a very good employer thats why ive been there 18 years, and no one will deny that but its getting worse fast. dont get me wrong i think competition is a good thing, why should RM have it all there own way? but the regulators are making it near impossible for RM to compete with existing company's.
kwak zzr
29-06-07, 10:40 AM
we had a royal mail delivery today at work.
is our postie a scab?
not in the CWU union or prob a manager or so they call themselves.
It is an offence for an employer to dip into the pension fund without a so-called section 76 certificate - ie a certificate from the scheme's actuary that doing so will not materially worsen the financial position of the fund. It also requires trustee consent.
kwak zzr
29-06-07, 10:44 AM
I'm not saying that Postal staff don't work hard. Just that in the scheme of
things, it is not really a skilled profession and of course the problem with this is being able to be replaced quite easily (Eastern European migrants for instance)
Again, whether rightly or wrongly, if a business is 'struggling' how is making the service worse really helping matters?
agreed steve H but the kinds of people RM have been employing lately Eastern European migrants for instance is whats making our delivery service a problem these people are delivering your mail and am finding it difficult to read, the royal mail should be looking after there delivery men and women and employing to a high standard because they are the front line or the end of the pipeline so royal mail say.
kwak zzr
29-06-07, 10:46 AM
dont know the figures exactly Ed but i think RM are trying to repay 1.7billion per year into the pension to scheme to try make up the loss.
not in the CWU union or prob a manager or so they call themselves.
I called him a scab anyway, just for fun. y'know.
Steve H
29-06-07, 10:53 AM
agreed steve H but the kinds of people RM have been employing lately Eastern European migrants for instance is whats making our delivery service a problem these people are delivering your mail and am finding it difficult to read, the royal mail should be looking after there delivery men and women and employing to a high standard because they are the front line or the end of the pipeline so royal mail say.
Fair enough, but that could be said about the majority of large employers
in this day and age.
Quite frankly, being able to work at the same job for the same employer for over 18 years is a benefit these days.
kwak zzr
29-06-07, 10:54 AM
yea SCAB SCAB SCAB!!
Steve H
29-06-07, 10:54 AM
I called him a scab anyway, just for fun. y'know.
:thumright:
Steve H
29-06-07, 10:54 AM
yea SCAB SCAB SCAB!!
So why are you not on the picket line then?
kwak zzr
29-06-07, 11:01 AM
Fair enough, but that could be said about the majority of large employers
in this day and age.
Quite frankly, being able to work at the same job for the same employer for over 18 years is a benefit these days.
it was only about 3 or 4 years ago when i would have said i felt proud working for RM it has been a very good employer in the past but that was when customer service came first not money, the royal mail will be privatized and it will go the way all the other private firms have gone, sadly people in the remote farms and villages wont get a postman they will have to fetch there mail themselves, royal mail deliver to these types of addresses virtually free everyday it may even cost the business to take there mail, this will all stop and only major town and city's will get delivery's to the door because thats where the money is, people take it for granted that you order something off ebay and the postie brings it shortly after. the price of mail is also going to treble in the coming years, the uk has the cheapest mail prices but not for long.
kwak zzr
29-06-07, 11:02 AM
So why are you not on the picket line then?
honest? i'm lazy:rolleyes:
Jelster
29-06-07, 11:32 AM
as i understand it, employer's contributions to a pension fund for employees is part of the benefits for the employee like getting a company car etc. i think lots of people accept getting a crapper salary in return for a decent pension contribution, seems unfair if you put up with the rubbish pay and then get your pension taken away
Small print..... You don't get anything for nothing in this world. Whenever I have the opportunity for a company pension, I negotiate that it goes into a pension of my choice, even if that means taking a little less. That way they find it harder to reclaim.
.
kwak zzr
29-06-07, 11:37 AM
a small part of my pension AVC is with Norwich union.
Flamin_Squirrel
29-06-07, 11:42 AM
One day we'll regret the death of the unions.
In the grand scheme of things, I don't think we will. This isn't the victorian times where health, safety, welfare, exploitation etc laws were unheard of, and where if you quit the job you were doing you had no choice of getting another.
I've read an RMT poster in a London Underground staff room before, basically saying that LU workers have it sweet, but they've gotta keep kicking up a fuss otherwise LU bosses will start trying to compramise their jobs again :smt017
It seems to me that Unions are run by people even greedier than the company bosses they vilify, who fight any kind of change or even progress, determined to keep business uncompetative.
Steve H
29-06-07, 11:49 AM
In the grand scheme of things, I don't think we will. This isn't the victorian times where health, safety, welfare, exploitation etc laws were unheard of, and where if you quit the job you were doing you had no choice of getting another.
I've read an RMT poster in a London Underground staff room before, basically saying that LU workers have it sweet, but they've gotta keep kicking up a fuss otherwise LU bosses will start trying to compramise their jobs again :smt017
It seems to me that Unions are run by people even greedier than the company bosses they vilify, who fight any kind of change or even progress, determined to keep business uncompetative.
Squirrel, That never happened with British Leyland in the late 70's......much. ;)
kwak zzr
29-06-07, 11:51 AM
Postal workers: Lets drag them down, cut their pay, and cut jobs. Why should they be treated any different? While we're at it, lets drag everyone else down - we'll all feel so much better about our own spineless subservience.
Michael Brandon, Taunton
taken from the bbc web site.
kwak zzr
29-06-07, 11:53 AM
I think we all forget that the competition don't want to deliver your personal letter to anyone,they want buisness mail only,
support your mail system and not accept the dutch postal system you could end up with.
mentioning that postie's are unskilled is not from somebody who has ever done it,in the rain or middle of the winter when conditions are not suitable to be driving never mind walking.
I for one support my postie who works hard and is always helpful.
Mark, Bristol
ok so i'm bored and i should be standing outside my work place still bored:)
Steve H
29-06-07, 12:40 PM
I think we all forget that the competition don't want to deliver your personal letter to anyone,they want buisness mail only,
support your mail system and not accept the dutch postal system you could end up with.
mentioning that postie's are unskilled is not from somebody who has ever done it,in the rain or middle of the winter when conditions are not suitable to be driving never mind walking.
I for one support my postie who works hard and is always helpful.
Mark, Bristol
ok so i'm bored and i should be standing outside my work place still bored:)
No offence kwak, but I would find it hard to argue that being a Postman is a 'skilled Profession' no matter how hard they work.
MiniMatt
29-06-07, 01:10 PM
No offence kwak, but I would find it hard to argue that being a Postman is a 'skilled Profession' no matter how hard they work.
Christ, what the hell is tho? We're all trained monkeys when it boils down to it. From your knowledge of DX I suspect you're involved in the legal profession? Most (+50%) lawyers I know are borderline autistic and can barely tie their own shoelaces, but are expert at wading through obscure facts and figures; the same goes for computer folks and accountants. Barristers seem to be hyperactive speed junkies. Teachers invariably have shattered dreams and doctors have some sort of god complex.
There, which profession haven't I insulted yet? All "professions" are merely reciting parrots :D Apart from the mad scientists who make genuine breakthroughs. And they're called mad scientists for a reason :D
Unions exist not to prevent the workhouse and slave labour but to prevent theft of pension schemes and the like. Claiming posties "have it easy" because their employer contributes / did contribute to a pension scheme is rubbish - every major employer in the country offers a pension scheme through which they (the employer) makes some contribution - it's part of the employees overall renumeration, theft from that is why we have unions. Unions are democracy in action, the majority saying to the minority "this is not acceptable". By the time of the next recession (and it will come) unions will have been killed off and we will be looking a lot closer to the victorian workhouse than you can ever imagine.
it was only about 3 or 4 years ago when i would have said i felt proud working for RM it has been a very good employer in the past but that was when customer service came first not money, the royal mail will be privatized and it will go the way all the other private firms have gone, sadly people in the remote farms and villages wont get a postman they will have to fetch there mail themselves, royal mail deliver to these types of addresses virtually free everyday it may even cost the business to take there mail, this will all stop and only major town and city's will get delivery's to the door because thats where the money is, people take it for granted that you order something off ebay and the postie brings it shortly after. the price of mail is also going to treble in the coming years, the uk has the cheapest mail prices but not for long.
But that is partly because Royal Mail do not want to lose the universal service that they currently have, I know that at a recent postcomm forum meeting the MD of DX offered to take it over which made RM go quiet. Realistically this couldn't happen but he did it more to make a point.
Also to say that Royal mail are not able to compete is not true either as all other carriers still have to charge VAT and Royal mail still do not which means that it is very hard for downstream access carriers to be competitive for finance companies who are the largest mailers in the UK. They also make quite a few loops to jump through for anyone looking at using a competitor.
You then had Royal mail saying that they would only proceed with zonal pricing which they have applied for if it is wanted by their customers. Their two biggest customers in the Uk were in the room and both stated they did not want it but i doubt that they will withdraw it. Interestingly if zonal comes in then one of the biggest price increases will be in London as they state it is more expensive to deliver there.
I'm not disagreeing with the strike and feel the deficit should be repaid or by any means saying that postal workers get it easy but I don't think they get it any harder then other people in the industry who do not tend to get any pensions and worse pay. The working hours for carriers tend to be considerably longer.
it was only about 3 or 4 years ago when i would have said i felt proud working for RM it has been a very good employer in the past but that was when customer service came first not money, the royal mail will be privatized and it will go the way all the other private firms have gone, sadly people in the remote farms and villages wont get a postman they will have to fetch there mail themselves, royal mail deliver to these types of addresses virtually free everyday it may even cost the business to take there mail, this will all stop and only major town and city's will get delivery's to the door because thats where the money is, people take it for granted that you order something off ebay and the postie brings it shortly after. the price of mail is also going to treble in the coming years, the uk has the cheapest mail prices but not for long.
Ooops DP!!
Steve H
29-06-07, 01:25 PM
[quote=MiniMatt;1225244]Christ, what the hell is tho? We're all trained monkeys when it boils down to it. From your knowledge of DX I suspect you're involved in the legal profession? Most (+50%) lawyers I know are borderline autistic and can barely tie their own shoelaces, but are expert at wading through obscure facts and figures; the same goes for computer folks and accountants. Barristers seem to be hyperactive speed junkies. Teachers invariably have shattered dreams and doctors have some sort of god complex.
There, which profession haven't I insulted yet? All "professions" are merely reciting parrots :D Apart from the mad scientists who make genuine breakthroughs. And they're called mad scientists for a reason :D
Granted. However, the general common denominator of the jobs you have referred to is Qualifications/Training.
I honestly doubt that the majority of tasks carried out by a Postperson would need more than initial on the job training.
Quite frankly, for the crap I generally have to put up with, I wish I had not bothered qualifying and become a Postman instead. Whatever the weather conditions. :smt013
kwak zzr
29-06-07, 02:04 PM
my last word is Steve H you should try it.
Steve H
29-06-07, 02:08 PM
my last word is Steve H you should try it.
My last comment would be, if you can get me a full time position, locally to me, then I would. Seriously. :thumright:
:nomore:
Unions exist not to prevent the workhouse and slave labour but to prevent theft of pension schemes and the like. Claiming posties "have it easy" because their employer contributes / did contribute to a pension scheme is rubbish - every major employer in the country offers a pension scheme through which they (the employer) makes some contribution - it's part of the employees overall renumeration, theft from that is why we have unions. Unions are democracy in action, the majority saying to the minority "this is not acceptable". By the time of the next recession (and it will come) unions will have been killed off and we will be looking a lot closer to the victorian workhouse than you can ever imagine.
Tosh. Unions do not exist to stop theft from pension schemes, that's the actuary's job. The truth is that unions have started to become an irrelevance. Some perform better than others, but so often they are self-serving autocracies. The teachers union seems to do a good job in engaging with the government, and the medical lot are past masters at taking the government to task.
I think that this ability to make the government stop and listen is one of the hallmarks of effective representation.
Simply going on strike - seen it all before....
I don't know the in's n out's of this pension thing. But I do know that when these people were paying into it they were not clearly warned that they may not see it back, this scheme was 'sold' to them.
As a comparision, I received compensation a few years ago on my endowment policy because it was 'sold' to me, I can't see how this pension situation is any different. It is a scheme that was sold to many people, and only now, years down the line is the truth of what companies can do with this money begining to show itself.
Anyhoooo, enjoy your day off Kwak, and for what its worth, before you consider my opinion ...... I am one of them 'monkeys' that couldnt even get a job with the royal mail!!!:rolleyes: Maybe I was to intelligent ;)
kwak zzr
29-06-07, 02:45 PM
:) nice one TC, sorry you couldnt get in.
MiniMatt
29-06-07, 02:54 PM
Tosh. Unions do not exist to stop theft from pension schemes, that's the actuary's job.
Really - the RCN were balloted on strike action just last month over pensions - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6654547.stm
The truth is that unions have started to become an irrelevance. Some perform better than others, but so often they are self-serving autocracies.
Only because the economy has been reasonably strong lately and the major pressure on fair working practice is that employees can (generally) walk into another job if it gets too bad. What we're seeing now, as the boom starts to turn is that employees can only walk into another job if they're prepared to lose their pension.
The teachers union seems to do a good job in engaging with the government, and the medical lot are past masters at taking the government to task.
Medical lot - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6654547.stm
Teaching lot - http://politics.guardian.co.uk/publicservices/story/0,,2106266,00.html
I think that this ability to make the government stop and listen is one of the hallmarks of effective representation.
And if they don't listen until a strike is mulled/called?
Simply going on strike - seen it all before....
It worked a good proportion of the time back in the day, and it has the power to work just as well (ie. by no means all the time) now. I'll say again, this is not the 70s, people don't strike because they don't like the biscuits in the staff canteen, people strike because it's the last resort to change unfair working practices.
Steve H
29-06-07, 02:58 PM
:) nice one TC, sorry you couldnt get in.
Like I said, bit of a closed shop. They probably did not want you to find out
about the 'card school' in the backroom. ;)
kwak zzr
29-06-07, 03:01 PM
or the cigarettes in the locker room:)
ASM-Forever
29-06-07, 03:02 PM
I'm annoyed at the postal strike as im expecting a few bits of important mail....but as long as i get it some time soon, i am not overly bothered.
I have to agree with Steve H, with regards to a postie being an unskilled labourer....they should be paid a comparable rate for that sector, which from a starting wage might not be too far from the minimum wage. I dont claim to know what they are paid....but i would expect sub £20k per annum....maybe lower.
I dont see how you could justify paying them any more than that....having to lug around a letter bag in bad weather is part of the job surely!
Its also natural that managers will earn more....presumably they are more experienced/qualified and a higher salary is the reward.
I cant really comment with regards to pensions as they are something i avoid. I prefer to manage my own finances in the short/long term through banking/ISA's/shares etc...that way im the only one to blame if it goes wrong! It wont though as im quite conservative :)
Steve H
29-06-07, 03:10 PM
I don't know the in's n out's of this pension thing. But I do know that when these people were paying into it they were not clearly warned that they may not see it back, this scheme was 'sold' to them.
As a comparision, I received compensation a few years ago on my endowment policy because it was 'sold' to me, I can't see how this pension situation is any different. It is a scheme that was sold to many people, and only now, years down the line is the truth of what companies can do with this money begining to show itself.
Anyhoooo, enjoy your day off Kwak, and for what its worth, before you consider my opinion ...... I am one of them 'monkeys' that couldnt even get a job with the royal mail!!!:rolleyes: Maybe I was to intelligent ;)
'those' monkeys and 'too' intelligent. :smt112
Now you really feckin' hate me don't you? :cheers:
'those' monkeys and 'too' intelligent. :smt112
Now you really feckin' hate me don't you? :cheers:
No!
Sorry to disappoint
You might be good at English, but I bet you can't put a fruit pastal in ya mouth without chewing it :smt112
Jelster
29-06-07, 03:15 PM
I am one of them 'monkeys' that couldnt even get a job with the royal mail!!!:rolleyes:
You're obviously over qualified.
Kwak, do you mean to tell me you've had a day off and you haven't been out into the garage to polish your bike ???
Christ, I understood that this strike was all your doing so you could get an extra coat of wax on the SV !! :D
.
Steve H
29-06-07, 03:24 PM
No!
Sorry to disappoint
You might be good at English, but I bet you can't put a fruit pastal in ya mouth without chewing it :smt112
I am disappointed. :(
I honestly did not mean offence. :smt105 I just need to keep up my reputation of being the arrogant one on the Forum.
Apologies for my sarcasm T.C. :rolleyes:
You're obviously over qualified.
Kwak, do you mean to tell me you've had a day off and you haven't been out into the garage to polish your bike ???
Christ, I understood that this strike was all your doing so you could get an extra coat of wax on the SV !! :D
.
Just to get an extra day to catch up his cousin! His local halfords even bought in more autosol
Apologies for my sarcasm T.C. :rolleyes:
No offence taken, I am too busy working, unlike kwak, the lazy part timer :smt112
kwak zzr
29-06-07, 03:30 PM
I'm annoyed at the postal strike as im expecting a few bits of important mail....but as long as i get it some time soon, i am not overly bothered.
I have to agree with Steve H, with regards to a postie being an unskilled labourer....they should be paid a comparable rate for that sector, which from a starting wage might not be too far from the minimum wage. I dont claim to know what they are paid....but i would expect sub £20k per annum....maybe lower.
I dont see how you could justify paying them any more than that....having to lug around a letter bag in bad weather is part of the job surely!
Its also natural that managers will earn more....presumably they are more experienced/qualified and a higher salary is the reward.
you really should try working there ASM our managers are staff that have applied to be managers, they ask us (me and friends) to also be managers because people like me have experience of the job after all these years.
nowadays we get students arrive at Christmas to earn abit more money and then 6 months later they are managers not knowing anything really, this is why royal mail managers get real bad press.
a delivery postie gets about 16.5k pa.full time. the royal mail find it hard to recruit these days with the cost of living and increasing property prices, they cant recruit at all in London. if you go to the RM web site and see jobs, full time is not really available anymore they want people to work 4 hours per day, to carry up to 8 mail pouches, up to five miles, in all weather, for about 8k pa.
kwak zzr
29-06-07, 03:32 PM
Just to get an extra day to catch up his cousin! His local halfords even bought in more autosol
i dont keep up with him anymore hes a cleaner-holic:) i haven't looked at the sv today and even mentioned selling her yesterday:(
i dont keep up with him anymore hes a cleaner-holic:) i haven't looked at the sv today and even mentioned selling her yesterday:(
:( :(
To swap for something else or to be bikeless?
kwak zzr
29-06-07, 03:49 PM
swap for something else mate.
Steve H
29-06-07, 03:55 PM
swap for something else mate.
............but you are a poorly paid Postman. :smt017
Sorry kwak, could not resist. :rolleyes:
Unfair .. ...Am with you on this Kwak....the missus doesnt need to eat, so long as she has a nice bike to pillion
What you thinking of?
Honda ? :smt112
Steve H
29-06-07, 04:00 PM
Unfair .. ...Am with you on this Kwak....the missus doesnt need to eat, so long as she has a nice bike to pillion
What you thinking of?
Honda ? :smt112
8)
kwak zzr
29-06-07, 04:02 PM
............but you are a poorly paid Postman. :smt017
Sorry kwak, could not resist. :rolleyes:
i do wish people would listen:rolleyes: i have no problem with the pay the 2.5% offered is ok its the strings attached to the 2.5% thats the problem:confused:
i'd prefere no pay rise and no strings:thumright:
Nar, still can't hear you
:smt112
kwak zzr
29-06-07, 04:05 PM
i cant go IL4 TC been there done that got the T shirt, so its got to be V twin, i do like the 749 and the sp2 but my want is for my lil sv650s back.
Steve H
29-06-07, 04:06 PM
Did somebody say something? ;)
Please don't take it too seriously kwak.
The sv650s is a nice bike .... I sold mine to a friend, and we had a little bimble out the other day, it looks so cute in my mirrors ;)
Only kidding, it is a great bike, really glad to see it around and about. He even cleaned before the ride because he knew I would go on at him if it was too dirty.
Plenty of them about, and you would probably have change in your pocket from the thou, you never have seemd 100% happy with it
kwak zzr
29-06-07, 04:10 PM
:smt075 :smt064 ](*,) :smt117
kwak zzr
29-06-07, 04:11 PM
friend of mine has my old 650 and i look at her everytime i go round:(
do like the power of the thou tho.
Biker Biggles
29-06-07, 04:14 PM
Any group who has the ba*ls to stand up for themselves and fight for what they believe is right has my respect and total support.Today that's the posties.Well done and keep it up.:smt070 :cheers:
Come the revolution the know nothing parasites and jumped up bullies will be the first ones up against the wall.:D
home time, after my long hard day at work . :)
peterco
29-06-07, 04:17 PM
Really - the RCN were balloted on strike action just last month over pensions - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6654547.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6654547.stm)
The ballot for strike action was not about pensions,but for the implementation of the 2.5% pay rise in full and not staged in two parts.
pete
Comrade,
I wish you every success in your strike action.
Trampie (GMB)
kwak zzr
29-06-07, 04:41 PM
why thank you sir :)
Biker Biggles
29-06-07, 04:51 PM
I just wish I could join the RMT where I work.
Now that's a proper union.Take no prisoners.:smt070
kwak zzr
29-06-07, 04:52 PM
Whats RMT?
Biker Biggles
29-06-07, 05:02 PM
Rail Maritime Transport.
It's the union with balls that takes no sh*t and the reason that rail workers earn good wages.Last year a tube train driver was sacked for a fairly minor mistake and the union balloted for strike action as a result.Over 90% supported the union and driver was reinstated.If more people stood up to bullying management we would all have better working lives and the yellow bellied types who aspire to those kind of jobs would wither away.
kwak zzr
29-06-07, 05:25 PM
i must agree with you B Biggles.
the_runt69
29-06-07, 08:33 PM
Rail Maritime Transport.
It's the union with balls that takes no sh*t and the reason that rail workers earn good wages.Last year a tube train driver was sacked for a fairly minor mistake and the union balloted for strike action as a result.Over 90% supported the union and driver was reinstated.If more people stood up to bullying management we would all have better working lives and the yellow bellied types who aspire to those kind of jobs would wither away.
Ah the union that voted a dinosaur in as its leader, Bob Crow would strike over a box of matches and has had to negoiate more downfalls than successes. The Man that wanted to strike on new years eve to prove a point and make more people drink and drive. And rail workers dont earn good wages despite what youve heard, My platform staff are on less than 13K a year in places and he's not interested because he cant get his face on the news supporting them, bloke has no balls he's just a trouble maker who causes more loss to his members than he actually gains them in the long run
Biker Biggles
29-06-07, 09:09 PM
Give me a dinosaur with some fight in it over a slick modern job with nothing but a degree in spin any day of the week.Bob Crow may be a bit of a thug with little finess,but the next time the Northern Line think they will just sack someone at a kangaroo court they will at least know their workers will put up a real fight.That sort of thing is important to workers who are vulnerable to modern bully boy managers.Individually people can do little about it,but collectively there is real power to defend basic decency.
the_runt69
29-06-07, 09:12 PM
If I remember riightly the driver had run a red light for the 3rd time a sackable offence in any railway company, doesnt matter how good you are keep running red lights and someday youll kill somebody. But Mr Crow likes to keep these people driving trains ????
Biker Biggles
29-06-07, 09:45 PM
Not quite the story I was told at the time but I guess we both don't know the whole gambit.What I do know is that without a strong union or some other equivalent we are extremely vulnerable to bullying at work.There may be some legal rights,but in practice these are very hard to enforce.There is little to prevent vindictive managers intimidating and ultimately getting rid of staff where there is no solidarity.It's also becoming much more common than it was ten to twenty years ago when more workers were in unions and worked in less fragmented workplaces.
If you don't like my RMT example,take the recent British Airways dispute.That was over several issues including pensions,but the real galvanising issue was managerial bullying over absence management.
Sorry to hijack the potie thread.:D
the_runt69
29-06-07, 09:53 PM
As you say we never hear the real story only one side against the other, have no time for the RMT after my experiences with them when they were first formed and was coming from the NUR.
Hae a bit of time for the TSSA as they would negociate and mediate rather than call for a stike over someone blowing their nose but since becoming a manager myself have no union backup as we have to do our own negotiations, but at last the TSSA do have a good solicitor system which we can use if we need them and not rabble rousers
Jelster
29-06-07, 10:07 PM
Any group who has the ba*ls to stand up for themselves and fight for what they believe is right has my respect and total support.Today that's the posties.Well done and keep it up.
What about those who feel that striking was the wrong action ? Was the fact that they went to work, just like any other day wrong, or was that too standing up for what they believe is right ?
Biker Biggles
29-06-07, 10:13 PM
I'd more or less worked out what you do from your posts,and you may have worked out that I am a shop steward in one of the larger unions(not RMT)so we see what goes on but from different sides of the fence.Where I work there are far too many managers,many of them grossly dim who command nothing but contempt from their staff.They are often the ones who couldn't cut the mustard and were promoted because they brownosed,joined the right lodge or did someones dirty work for them.They then sit in judgement over others when in truth they are not fit to clean their boots.These sort of inadequates tend to hide their failure by bullying others,and that's where we need strong unions.I'll continue to support anyone who exposes this and fights it.
I hope,and I'm sure I haven't described you here.:)
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