View Full Version : Dogbone sets - a warning
Don't go making your own or buying cheap ones or this might happen
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I'm quite handy with my hands and have done a lot of fabrication work in my time, so making new dogbones seemed like a doddle. What happened was pretty much all my own fault because the metal I was given to make them out of wasn't the very strong aircraft grade Dural my mate told me it was - it was common or garden normal alloy, he screwed up and pointed me at the wrong bit of plate. I can't blame my mate, he didn't know that someone had shifted the piles of meatal around.
The dogbones I made lasted 8,000 miles, including a trackday at Mallory, and then broke while I was doing 50mph overtaking a car, resulting in me highsiding and getting thrown 12 feet in the air to land on my ankle. A year later and I'm still recovering from it. Luckily my Bandit wasn't too badly damaged and I kicked it straught and kept using it once I put proper dogbones in, but if it hadn't been the 75,000 mile piece of crap that it was and something decent I would've been really hacked off.
Talking to the traffic coppers who attended the scene they told me they'd seen two or three bikes that had suffered the same thing in their time on traffic duty.
What I should have done was get someone I could trust to make them from high carbon steel, like the originals are, or bought quality ones from a known and trusted supplier...not some monkey who flogs them cheap on eBay.
You've been warned.
weazelz
10-07-07, 06:26 PM
...
unless I am mistaken, yield strengths:
ali: 50MPa
dural: 400MPa
mild steel: 350MPa
so even mild steel should be acceptable if you consider dural acceptable
Cheers for that...will definitely be looking at getting decent quality dogbones for my SV from a reputable source! Wouldn't want to risk injury to myself or to my bike and seeing as I'm a noob I'm extra cautious :)
dirtydog
10-07-07, 06:36 PM
Cheers for that...will definitely be looking at getting decent quality dogbones for my SV from a reputable source! Wouldn't want to risk injury to myself or to my bike and seeing as I constantly fall off anyway:)
#-o #-o #-o
Quote:
Originally Posted by LouLou http://forums.sv650.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?p=1234891#post1234891)
Cheers for that...will definitely be looking at getting decent quality dogbones for my SV from a reputable source! Wouldn't want to risk injury to myself or to my bike and seeing as I constantly fall off anyway:smile:
#-o #-o #-o
:smt089 LOL
lawson17
10-07-07, 07:28 PM
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Wow! That is SOFT! Doh!:(
Standard dog bones are made from Steel, as you've said.
I'd never, ever, use ally in such a high-stress place...
kwak zzr
10-07-07, 07:35 PM
that the same metal that suzuki make there bolts out of:) (CHEESE)
dizzyblonde
10-07-07, 07:39 PM
hhhmmmm, i'm so glad dirty dog sent me standard bones when he did, as the ones that came off didn't look like they would hold owt up neither, although stampd JHS, they appeared very suss. dirty dogs proper ones were certainly made of proper metal
quote im indoors:- anyone with aluminium looking bones take erm off....aluminium suffers metal fatigue and fails without warning
lancasterlad
10-07-07, 07:59 PM
dont want to sound thick but what are dogbones?:help:
dizzyblonde
10-07-07, 08:03 PM
the metal jobbies either side of the mono shock, attached to the swingarm that hold your bike in position, shorter one higher the rear end, longer ones drop it down...think thats right, anyone correct me if the blonde bird is wrong.
Sid Squid
10-07-07, 08:18 PM
Standard dog bones are made from Steel, as you've said.
I'd never, ever, use ally in such a high-stress place...
Generally speaking I'd agree - however the suspension links on my Kawasaki are something very light indeed, exactly what of course I'm not sure, but it's a very light alloy whatever it is.
Generally speaking I'd agree - however the suspension links on my Kawasaki are something very light indeed, exactly what of course I'm not sure, but it's a very light alloy whatever it is.
Come on now, admit it, you splashed out on some titanium dogbones ;)
I'm surprised they lasted as long 8k miles made out of ali :o
weazelz
10-07-07, 08:25 PM
Generally speaking I'd agree - however the suspension links on my Kawasaki are something very light indeed, exactly what of course I'm not sure, but it's a very light alloy whatever it is.
steel is an alloy ;-)
Standard dog bones are made from Steel, as you've said.
I'd never, ever, use ally in such a high-stress place...
Standard GSXR1000 K1 dogbones are made from an alloy of some variety. I owned a Gixer thou at the same time as the Bandit, so using Dural seemed a logical choice as I'd seen it worked perfectly well on that bike.
unless I am mistaken, yield strengths:
ali: 50MPa
dural: 400MPa
mild steel: 350MPa
so even mild steel should be acceptable if you consider dural acceptable
Quite, but my mate pointed me at the Dural, so I took it knowing it to be superior to mild steel in this respect. Little did I know....
I'm surprised they lasted as long 8k miles made out of ali :o
That can only be down to the skill of the bloke who made them :)
I've got a set of JHS dogbones, if they break and I live to tell the tale. I'll be following the old samurai rules about when a sword broke in battle. If the swordsman survived, he would return to sword maker and feed him every piece...
What's really scary is that three weeks previously I'd been doing enough of this...
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to do this...
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to the rear tyre on the same bike with the dodgy bones fitted
Blue_SV650S
10-07-07, 10:06 PM
Interesting, have we ever had any reports of eBay ones failing?
I see you blanket slate them, but where is the evidence? Do we know what grade material the eBay are made of???
I have a vested interest as I have an ebay set. I think lots of others do too, never heard anything negative said about them ...
I think it is unfair that just because your home made jobs failed to presume that eBay ones will ... if we were to find they were made of the same grade metal then it'd have more basis ...
I think this research needs to be done ... if they, the JHS or BanditMainia(?) ones come up short on metal type/grade then we ought to publicise it as it is a common mod ...
weazelz
10-07-07, 10:12 PM
Quite, but my mate pointed me at the Dural, so I took it knowing it to be superior to mild steel in this respect. Little did I know....
well, only mildly (no pun intended) superior
what I meant was that even with the crappiest mild steel you're only a fraction off the strength of top-notch dural. & maybe the ebay guy does use a better steel than mild, it can't cost a vast amount more
anyway, glad you survived to tell the tale :-)
Interesting, have we ever had any reports of eBay ones failing?
I see you blanket slate them, but where is the evidence? Do we know what grade material the eBay are made of???
I have a vested interest as I have an ebay set. I think lots of others do too, never heard anything negative said about them ...
I think it is unfair that just because your home made jobs failed to presume that eBay ones will ... if we were to find they were made of the same grade metal then it'd have more basis ...
The coppers who picked me up told me the sets they'd seen fail had been bought on eBay. Initially they thought that's where mine had come from and were chiding me for being a bit tight and buying suspension parts from unknown suppliers. I got it even worse when I fessed up to making my own.
Blue_SV650S
10-07-07, 10:24 PM
The coppers who picked me up told me the sets they'd seen fail had been bought on eBay. Initially they thought that's where mine had come from and were chiding me for being a bit tight and buying suspension parts from unknown suppliers. I got it even worse when I fessed up to making my own.
I am not suggesting we dismiss that totally - but I wouldn't put much weight on it (if you pardon the pun!!) :D
Do we have anybody that has the facilities to see exactly what metal these bones are made of? :confused:
The eBay add (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Suzuki-SV650-Jack-Up-Kit-03-07_W0QQitemZ180136596764QQihZ008QQcategoryZ10534QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) says/claims "Made from high quality high strength steel"
So lets not jump the gun and get someone to do some proper research ;)
As a starter for 10, I'll see if a magnet sticks to mine ;)
Sid Squid
10-07-07, 10:59 PM
steel is an alloy ;-)
Very true, your point is? ;)
(read my post again there's a good chap.)
rictus01
10-07-07, 11:20 PM
My home made are tool steel, and have been on since 4,000 miles, bike has done 153,000 miles in total without any issue, might be heavier than stock, but if you look at the forces involved I wasn't going to take a chance.
Guess it's a case of knowing what you're doing, if you don't have the equipment to test it's as strong as the originals then just make sure you make it stronger.
Cheers Mark.
Standard GSXR1000 K1 dogbones are made from an alloy of some variety. I owned a Gixer thou at the same time as the Bandit, so using Dural seemed a logical choice as I'd seen it worked perfectly well on that bike.
Aye, but the GSXR is quite a bit lighter than the Bandit, and Suzuki wouldn't have just slung any old alloy-type dog bones on there.
They'd have been relentlesly tested again and again so they not only coped with the weight of the bike, but also any portly gentlemen or ladies that decided to own one. ;)
SV650Racer
11-07-07, 08:57 AM
Always buy from a reputable source.
I have seen these break..they were cheap ones bought from Ebay on a Bandit 1200 and one set on an SV1000. You dont have much comeback either on the seller then.
Ensure too for things like this if you can that they are TUV approved and the seller has liability insurance so your covered.
Aye, but the GSXR is quite a bit lighter than the Bandit, and Suzuki wouldn't have just slung any old alloy-type dog bones on there.
They'd have been relentlesly tested again and again so they not only coped with the weight of the bike, but also any portly gentlemen or ladies that decided to own one. ;)
There's about 25 kilos in it, the difference between a pie-eating salad dodger and someone whose body is a temple.
You don't know me do you, I'm far from "portly" - quite the opposite actually, I'm 5ft 8 and just over 11 stone of tanned, fit, hugely attractive muscular goodness (form a queue over ---> there please ladies) :D
I'm 5ft 8 and just over 11 stone of tanned, fit, hugely attractive muscular goodness (form a queue over ---> there please ladies) :D
I poop bigger than you :rolleyes:
I poop bigger than you :rolleyes:
How very nice for you.
There's about 25 kilos in it, the difference between a pie-eating salad dodger and someone whose body is a temple.
You don't know me do you, I'm far from "portly" - quite the opposite actually, I'm 5ft 8 and just over 11 stone of tanned, fit, hugely attractive muscular goodness (form a queue over ---> there please ladies) :D
PMSL...
I've eaten dinners bigger than you! :D
Blue_SV650S
11-07-07, 09:57 AM
Shouts louder :D can anybody test what/what grade metal ALL (not just eBay) these aftermarket dogbones are made from??
Else we are limited to the most basic of tests I can do meseln - like a ‘scratch test’ and magnetic test!! :D
It seems there might be quite a few of these bones snapping, if the eBay add is true to its word then it IS made of strong material … so until someone disproves that they are, lets look for other possibilities …
The first that comes to mind is that if the linkage bearing seizes then this will put undue stresses on the bones (and in a direction they are not designed to take that sort of punishment), potentially resulting in snappage … could this be more correlated/related to the snaps than material?? (excluding this home made one).
Shouts louder :D can anybody test what/what grade metal ALL these aftermarket dogbones are made from??
I really can't be arsed to test them. When I need a new set I'll buy from a reputable seller who gives me some kind of liability insurance comeback and TUV approval, As Sarah said. I've heard from 2 or three sources about ebay dogbones failing, and bearing in mind what happened to my Bandit I'm not taking a chance with them, no matter what the sellers description says.
I didn't like highsiding, it 'kin hurt and I don't want it happening again.
What happened was pretty much all my own fault
I think a certificate of Muppetry is in order!
I think a certificate of Muppetry is in order!
Well at least I am able to admit to my mistakes, if only to warn others of the dangers.
Blue_SV650S
11-07-07, 10:31 AM
…When I need a new set I'll buy from a reputable seller who gives me some kind of liability insurance ….
How do you know that ANY of the aftermarket dogbones are ‘strong’ enough?? Just coz something is more expensive doesn’t mean it is ‘better’ … I think someone in the know needs to test them all ...
As for buying from a reputable dealer … if I am dead, I don't care what liability insurance the place had!! I’d rather know what the material is BEFORE failure and then make an informed decision!! :smt016 Just coz the supplier is reputable, doesn’t mean a product they sell isn’t {insert you own expletive} :D
We also need to establish the cause ... like I said, it could be something unrelated.
If someone can test them and we find they are made of monkey metal, then this needs to be published. We do not have enough data to establish if it is material or some other variable at the moment, I’d be wary of ANY aftermarket dogbone with the info we have at the mo!!
How do you know that ANY of the aftermarket dogbones are ‘strong’ enough?? Just coz something is more expensive doesn’t mean it is ‘better’ … I think someone in the know needs to test them all ...
You could apply this to any part you buy for your bike, you normally only find out it's crap after it's failed. I think your idea of getting every single dogbone made tested for strength is pie in the sky - it just aint going to happen in UK. In Germany they have TUV testing for parts, if it doesn't pass it can't be fitted, simple. We should have the same here so you wouldn't be able to put dogbones sourced on ebay from knocked_up_in_my_shed999 onto your bike in that case.
I agree that not all expensive stuff is top quality - just look at the leathers market - but there is a safety standard in place with leathers to guide people to the right stuff if they want good quality.
As for buying from a reputable dealer … if I am dead, I don't care what liability insurance the place had!! I’d rather know what the material is BEFORE failure and then make an informed decision!! :smt016
We'll leave the testing up to you then
Just coz the supplier is reputable, doesn’t mean a product they sell isn’t {insert you own expletive} :D
I'd rather buy dogbones from someone like Harris, JHS, BanditMania or another known and respected supplier than from a guy I've never heard of on eBay. Chances are you won't die if they do fail, and then at least you'd have someone to go back to and say "I bought these, they failed, my bike is wrecked and you're paying for the damage". People like Harris etc don't normally sell crap products that are liable to fail, they deal in high end stuff that has a good reputation. Try getting anything out of your ebay supplier if they break and see what he says.
Blue_SV650S
11-07-07, 12:48 PM
....
I'd happily do it, but I don't have the facilities to do a proper test ... but someone on here might. There are only 3 sets of dogbones we know about right??? Stock, eBay, bandit mania?? it is not like a massive undertaking ;) I’d even donate my dogbones for the test! (I’d like to know if it were a destructive test first mind!! :D).
As for comeback, not sure you would get much comeback from a failed part other than a replacement part … I can’t see them giving you a new bike/leg/back!! ;)
Mine aren't as pretty as that. Just two lumps of flat steel with holes in them. Done 30k on them so far
I'd happily do it, but I don't have the facilities to do a proper test ... but someone on here might. There are only 3 sets of dogbones we know about right??? Stock, eBay, bandit mania?? it is not like a massive undertaking ;) I’d even donate my dogbones for the test! (I’d like to know if it were a destructive test first mind!! :D).
There has been more than one seller on ebay advertising dogbones. I've got original Bandit ones here, which are from a 1998 600 and a 2006 650. If anyone wants to test them to destruction they are welcome.
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