Parking fine appeal - bike on centrestand

[andy]

Just heard a news story on the radio.

A barrister in Surrey is appealing 100 parking fines he got on his GS500, he argues that as the bike was on its centrestand and none of the wheels were touching the ground, the fine was not valid! (I dont really see how he managed to balance it on the centrestand)

Imagine how many SV's will get centrestands if he wins!

[wyrdness]

It's difficult, but not impossible, to balance a bike on its centrestand. You need just the right amount of petrol in the tank, which makes me a bit suspicious of this guys claim.

I once saw a BMW balanced on its centrestand. It was rocking gently forwards and backwards, which was constantly setting off its alarm.

[The Basket]

He has 100 parking tickets?

He believes that a centrestand can give him magic powers or is a cloaking device?

He owns a GS500?

It just doesnt make sense.

[pups3000]

He has 100 parking tickets?

He believes that a centrestand can give him magic powers or is a cloaking device?

He owns a GS500?

It just doesnt make sense.


lol

[DanAbnormal]

He has 100 parking tickets?

He believes that a centrestand can give him magic powers or is a cloaking device?

He owns a GS500?

It just doesnt make sense.

:smt046

[Warthog]

Hmmm, bit of an idiot waiting for 100 parking tickets to try out his feeble defence!

[K]

Perhaps he is under the illusion that it is one of those 'unwritten' laws of the road...

... like the one that states that if you switch your hazard lights on it means you are allowed to park anywhere. Usually on double yellow lines, right outside the shop you want to just 'pop' into. :roll:

[MiniMatt]

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/article2067281.ece

If I've read that right he's taken it to the court of appeal and they've yet to make their judgment? If they do make a judgment (either way) would that set a precedent?

Overall, I'd have to say I agree with the comments posted at the bottom of the posted link, ie. "using his knowledge of the law for a childish avoidance of his social responsibility" and "before one buys a vehicle, one should consider where it will be kept...just not stick it on public property to the inconvenience of anybody else".

Presumably all the other party needs to do is take a photo of his bike with one of the wheels touching the ground, as I can't believe his centre stand perfectly balances on each and every occasion.

[Sid Squid]

Generally I'd agree with the comments about social responsibility, with my politics it's a subject that matters. Before we criticise though think; we don't know anything about the circumstances in which the bike in question is parked, I often used to park my bike on the pavement outside my house, where I live it makes complete sense to do so, obstructs no-one and frees up valuable roadspace for parking cars. Of course it's always been illegal to do so, but before there was a residents parking permit scheme where I live, (kerchingg! Camden), we weren't infested with parking warden filth, and the Police didn't care as it caused no problems. Now that's another yummy ticket for a rapacious, disgustingly behaved and commonly fraudulent parking service. (Just like the one in Islington which is equally the cause of complaint to the residents there).
We have to bear in mind that just because someone parks illegally it doesn't by necessity mean badly, obstructively or in any way that we should criticise. There are many places very close to where I live that have been lined for no higher reason than the desire to fine - there's no moral high ground in calling something illegal if it's like that because of the profit possibilities of making it so.
I haven't any problems at all with someone using a technicality to avoid the profiteering tactics of a greedy local authority - they'd use any and every weasel technicality to relieve you of your money.

[independentphoto]

I can't believe his centre stand perfectly balances on each and every occasion.

I was thinking about this..... maybe he has welded some large(r) discs onto the feet. That might do the trick.:rolleyes:

Garry:?:

[andy]

Spot on SidSquid

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Mr Squid for president.

As he says, you can hardly blame the man for using technicalities to avoid a ticket, as the robbing *******s that are parking enforcement will use any tactic they can to steal you money. I've had £50 stolen from me for having my bike parked up with the centre stand no more than half a foot outside a white line, despite the wheels of the bike being inside them. That's not getting in the way of anyone, and certainly not a breach that's worth anyones £50 hard earned.

Anyway, most wardens/parking enforcement companies are involved in criminal activity, far worse than the breaches of the law they're supposed to be preventing.

On a side note - the government, being as it's staffed by sanctimonious ********s, has recently ruled bank charges unfair, as they're not a reflection of the costs incurred to the bank. How, in such a blatant display of hypocrisy, can they charge £100! for such minor infraction of parking rules. There is no way that's a charge representative of the costs incurred in administering it.

[northwind]

On a side note - the government, being as it's staffed by sanctimonious ********s, has recently ruled bank charges unfair, as they're not a reflection of the costs incurred to the bank. How, in such a blatant display of hypocrisy, can they charge £100! for such minor infraction of parking rules. There is no way that's a charge representative of the costs incurred in administering it.

How is there any comparison? Punitive bank charges are illegal; punitive charges for civil or criminal offences are mandated in law. What would you suggest, that everyone illegally parked has to pay a charge of 20p per hour plus 10p for the ticket admin?

Don't know about this case, but if you've got 100 parking tickets then you are most likely a p***-taker of the highest order...

[MiniMatt]

Actually, that's a damn good point Sid. It occured to me after posting that I and just about everyone on my street parks their cars with a couple of wheels on the pavement. That's technically very naughty, but if people didn't then it would be darn hard (if not impossible) to get a car (or, heaven forbid, a fire engine) down the street.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

How is there any comparison? Punitive bank charges are illegal; punitive charges for civil or criminal offences are mandated in law. What would you suggest, that everyone illegally parked has to pay a charge of 20p per hour plus 10p for the ticket admin?

Don't know about this case, but if you've got 100 parking tickets then you are most likely a p***-taker of the highest order...

How are they NOT a comparison?

The fact that punitive charges for parking offences are mandated in law isn't surprising, considering the ones who profit from it are the law makers them selves. I don't see why that's an excuse for writing themselves bank cheques.

20p? I said representative. It's gonna be more than 20p, but it certainly isn't £100.

[northwind]

How are they NOT a comparison?

The fact that punitive charges for parking offences are mandated in law isn't surprising, considering the ones who profit from it are the law makers them selves. I don't see why that's an excuse for writing themselves bank cheques.


Parking charges, like other penalties for civil and criminal offences, are specifically designed as a deterrant. That's all they're for, and the charge has to reflect that. Though I agree that there's a difference between staying 10 minutes too long in a parking space vs parking on a double yellow of course.

Bank charges are supposed to be specifically to cover costs, and NOT as a deterrant. The only cost with parking charges is either lost revenue (what you would have put in a parking meter, if you're in a space) or cost of removal, the charges aren't designed at all to cover these costs while with bank charges that's the only justification.

Put it simply, parking charges have to be high enough to stop people just parking illegally. Which by and large, they are, the only reason there isn't someone parked unsafely on every corner round here is that they'd get charged each time. The estate I work in is bad enough just with the legal parking. There's two sorts of parking enforcement, the sort that we all like that keeps the traffic moving and stops people from parking in a position that means you can't see round bends, causing hazards... And the sort we all hate, when we stop 1 inch over a double yellow or come back 5 minutes after our ticket expires. But how do you draw that line?

Where's £100 the norm btw? London? Just curious, ours are I think £30 doubling to £60 for slow payment, or somesuch. Been a while since I got one.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

It's gone way beyond a deterrent. It's a shameless money making enterprise, nothing more.

You ask where do you draw the line, well that's the whole point, why does there have to BE a line? Yes you've gotta mark out spaces, but if someone does park 1 inch over the line, how does that justify the same ticket as someone who parks somewhere downright dangerous? Theres no thought to this, no reason, no leniency. An honest mistake and there goes almost an entire days pay.

£20 seems like a far more reasonable charge for minor offenses, and if someone really does park in a downright dangerous place, tow them (although I find the idea of private companies being legally permitted to seize peoples private property in order to extort money out of them outrageous in its self) and send them the bill.

£100 is the norm in London, yes. Although that's £50 if you pay up in 2 weeks, isn't that nice of them. Prices arranged high enough so they can extract the maximum amount of money, whilst not so high that everyone will try and fight it (and with lots of penalties and pitfalls there to discourage you, just in case you think about it).

[northwind]

Edit- I became annoyed, and started ranting. Not very productive :)

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Allowing people to use discretion doesn't automatically mean that they'll be permitted to become judge/jury/executioner. That's a big leap from people having to following the rules to the letter. So yes, wardens should be allowed to make their own decisions.

But of course, wardens have strong incentives to ticket as much as they can, which is the biggest problem of all.

[northwind]

But of course, wardens have strong incentives to ticket as much as they can, which is the biggest problem of all.

:thumbsup: Definately. Which is what leads to such highlights as hearses getting parking tickets. But I can see the other side of the coin, which is that traffic warden is a pretty low paid, unpopular job, and that targets like this are a pretty effective way of getting "results" out of people in some circumstances. If I was a traffic warden and I wasn't targetted like this, I'd go to the pub :)

[mitchbligh]

Ditto Sid Squid.
100%

[SoulKiss]

I've had £50 stolen from me for having my bike parked up with the centre stand no more than half a foot outside a white line, despite the wheels of the bike being inside them.

Dont know where you park :P

I asked a warden in the Fleet Street area where I park about this and got told its the wheels that are important, not the stand/mirrors/whatever/

Sounds like grounds for an appeal, but then its probably too late for that.

[gettin2dizzy]

Isn't it that one wheel has to be in the illegal area? I think i've heard of a case like this before. - and i have seen centre stands with 4 points of contact on ****ty bikes like 500s :) Good luck to him! but unfortunately i don't think it'll be a case of - 'its outside your home, its not inconveniencing anyone it's fine..' it'll be a case of 'ok, we need stricter parking regulations'

[markmoto]

If i lived in london and commuted id have a nice fake plate to slap on when i parked :-)

[Ceri JC]

I haven't any problems at all with someone using a technicality to avoid the profiteering tactics of a greedy local authority - they'd use any and every weasel technicality to relieve you of your money.

Yep. We don't know the circumstances in which he parked and if it was indeed remotely antisocial. I suspect not. How often have I been inconvenienced by an illegally (and inconsiderately) parked car? Hundreds, if not thousands of times. How many times have I been inconvenienced by a bike? Well never, the nearest was when I had to take a step to the left to walk around a VFR that was chained to some railings by a park.

[tomjones2]

If i lived in london and commuted id have a nice fake plate to slap on when i parked :-)

Its temping but not really worth the hasstle.

I think in the eyes of the law its actually better to have no plate than to have an altered one even with the correct reg, fake reg and going to be big problems. They can also get your correct reg of your tax disc, no tax disc again more probs.

Again not sure about the law but if the reg didn't come up on a computer cant they cease the vechile and crush it?

[markmoto]

Yeah i see what your saying point taken is a tempting idea though isnt it, they have got it prity much sewn up havent they not much you can do to evade capture anymore.