View Full Version : Let it Breath, More Horse POWER
PaulSV650S
18-07-07, 03:15 AM
This is a simple one to get more Horses and let the bike breath. If you have a 2003 or newer SV650 basicly lift up your gas tank remove the top of the air filter box. remove the 5 screws from the air box. get some oversized flanged out washers. bolt down the air filter using the screws and washers, the washers should overlap the edge of the air filter element. the air filter has a very sturdy rubber gasket around it. Leave the Top of the air filter box off drop the gas tank and off you go. I have found it helps with fuel use...+ it will allow you to get a little more out of each gear.... example 55mph before was 5th gear at 5,500 rpms now it is 4th gear at the same rpms. ....let thoses horses free....:smt077 and go kick some butt.......................
injury_ian
18-07-07, 04:41 AM
:roll: so by letting warm air into your engine changes the gear ratios in the gearbox?
:rolleyes: Im gonna try out that one!
This is a simple one to get more Horses and let the bike breath. If you have a 2003 or newer SV650 basicly lift up your gas tank remove the top of the air filter box. remove the 5 screws from the air box. get some oversized flanged out washers. bolt down the air filter using the screws and washers, the washers should overlap the edge of the air filter element. the air filter has a very sturdy rubber gasket around it. Leave the Top of the air filter box off drop the gas tank and off you go. I have found it helps with fuel use...+ it will allow you to get a little more out of each gear.... example 55mph before was 5th gear at 5,500 rpms now it is 4th gear at the same rpms. ....let thoses horses free....:smt077 and go kick some butt.......................
Eh? Hows that work then? Woudnt it be the same as JHS do, and remove the top part of thie airbox and replace the filter with a high flow item?
What you gonna see, 1-2hp increase?
If you are happy, thats cool...enjoy
Leave the Top of the air filter box off drop the gas tank and off you go.
Leaving the top off the airbox is a good way to gunk up your air filter quickly, which will mean less air, and less power.
You're seeing better tank ranges because the fuel mix is leaned out, if this is too lean, it'll cause engine damage.
Personally, everything with the airbox has been left alone, except the snorkel, which has been removed, leaving more airflow into the box. Once in there, it has only one place to go, and that's down into the engine. It could come back out the hole it went in, but more air is rushing in there.
Sounds nice though, more induction noise.
same as Baph - just a K&N filter , tank raisers and snorkel off
petevtwin650
18-07-07, 02:40 PM
it will allow you to get a little more out of each gear.... example 55mph before was 5th gear at 5,500 rpms now it is 4th gear at the same rpms. ....let thoses horses free....:smt077 and go kick some butt.......................
How can somebody with such a Gorgeous Sv believe tinkering with the mixture is gonna alter gear ratios.
I think somebody can't count gears
PaulSV650S
18-07-07, 03:39 PM
WOW, I thought I spoke English,,,,lol It does not change the gear ratio but lowers the RPMS for the Same amount of horse power with the box installed. It is allowing the engine to work less hard sucking air in through the little hole allowing for more power being applied to hourse power. Basicly it frees up horse power and let the engine free,,,less stress,,, the reason for the top of the air box is for two reasons. One it keeps the noise down acting like a baffle similar to what a car has. Two it keeps excess debri out of the cleaner, dirt is going to get in to the filter no matter if i comes in through a small hole or a large hole but also so it the air. I replace my paper with a K&N about $50.00 so I clean it once a month. I noticed that some of you are opening up the neck on the older SV air box this is the same Idea. So if you dont want to remove the top Drill in a bunch of holes that will also allow the bike to breath. Change the sproket if you want to change the gear ratio,,, :thumbsup:
Two it keeps excess debri out of the cleaner, dirt is going to get in to the filter no matter if i comes in through a small hole or a large hole but also so it the air. I replace my paper with a K&N about $50.00 so I clean it once a month. I noticed that some of you are opening up the neck on the older SV air box this is the same Idea. So if you dont want to remove the top Drill in a bunch of holes that will also allow the bike to breath.
Dirt is minimized by barriers, and as you rightly said, so is air flow.
For that reason, I removed the snorkel, but left the airbox top on (my bike is a 2006 BTW, so a newer pointy version).
Another thing to consider, is water. More air, more water. Do you want water seeping through the air filter & getting mixed with fuel in the cylinders? I certainly don't. In your situation, only the gas tank will really stop water getting to the air filter. I also have the airbox top to help this.
Horses for courses.
Note though, as I said, if the fuel mix is too lean, the bike will still run OK, but you'll be doing damage to the valves/shims by riding it in that state. That can get real expensive real quick.
northwind
18-07-07, 03:49 PM
WOW, I thought I spoke English,,,,lol It does not change the gear ratio but lowers the RPMS for the Same amount of horse power with the box installed.
The wheel is connected to the engine, with the clutch out of the equation engine speed is directly related to wheel speed... You can't reduce the engine speed at a particular wheel speed without changing the gear ratio or the wheel size, simple as that. Sorry ;)
At the risk of being patronising, take a fixed gear bike- a BMX, say. Now get a puny person (me) and someone with actual muscles. To go at 30mph both have to pedal at the exact same speed. The puny guy will work harder for the same result but the leg-revs will be the same.
petevtwin650
18-07-07, 03:50 PM
WOW, I thought I spoke English,,,,lol It does not change the gear ratio but lowers the RPMS for the Same amount of horse power with the box installed. It is allowing the engine to work less hard sucking air in through the little hole allowing for more power being applied to hourse power. Basicly it frees up horse power and let the engine free,,,less stress,,, Change the sproket if you want to change the gear ratio,,, :thumbsup:
Agreed you may get more horsepower at a given RPM but even with a 1000 HP, with the same gearing, you will still be doing 5,500rpm at 55 in 5th.
northwind
18-07-07, 03:54 PM
I noticed that some of you are opening up the neck on the older SV air box this is the same Idea.
Nope... Opening up the filter increases the flow of air, which allows you to flow more fuel, more mixture = more bang.
yorkie_chris
18-07-07, 03:54 PM
The seat of the pants dynometer test eh?
Guaranteed to make even the most useless modification feel like an extra hp or 2 :p
PaulSV650S
18-07-07, 03:57 PM
Um if you have doubts try it and see this is not a new thing to try, its done on cars all the time. Free Flowing Performace open air air filters.... If you have a few seconds flip up the tank remove the box top and take it for a spin but before doing so drive it with the top on check your speed and rpms then take it off and check your speed and rpms......;)
Um if you have doubts try it and see this is not a new thing to try, its done on cars all the time. Free Flowing Performace open air air filters.... If you have a few seconds flip up the tank remove the box top and take it for a spin but before doing so drive it with the top on check your speed and rpms then take it off and check your speed and rpms......;)
You could put a custom induction kit, a turbo, NAWZ and another turbo on it, giving 300 hp at the rear wheel - it will still run the same rpms at the same speeds in the same gears.
I mean, what happens if you shut off the throttle? Revs jump back up to normal unmodded rpms?
yorkie_chris
18-07-07, 04:06 PM
Obviously gear ratios won't change, but top speed might be increased by a few yards per hour, I think that's what the point is...
PaulSV650S
18-07-07, 04:14 PM
You guys are killing me on this,,, Um try it... not lying. trying to just help out. some one else mentioned removing the snorkle from the (curvy) I guess that is the older models,,,I like that style also,,,, more air correct,,,, the 03 and newer do not have a snorkel to remove so you can get more air just like above by removing the air box lid thus decreasing the rpms for a given speed in a said gear,,, if you dare try it and see,,, one of the guys on the base has an R6 so I told him the same thing as above he thought I was joking so he went home took off the the top of the air box and took it for a spin,,, the next day he was nothing but smiles,,,his words "holy **** it does work and I saw a huge change in performance" huge to someone may mean something else to someone else. BUT it is a simple thing to try... You guys with the curvies when you removed the smorkel did you see any change in performance?
northwind
18-07-07, 04:25 PM
You guys with the curvies when you removed the smorkel did you see any change in performance?
Absolutely, when properly jetted for it. Nobody's saying there's no performance gain. Well, maybe some people are, I lose track. But the revs at any given speed remain the same. Well, I have a buttload * more power in the midrange than standard so I'll often be one gear higher than I would before, but that doesn't count.
* exactly one buttload, no more, no less.
I guess that is the older models,,,I like that style also,,,, more air correct,,,, the 03 and newer do not have a snorkel to remove so you can get more air just like above by removing the air box lid thus decreasing the rpms for a given speed in a said gear
I have a 2006 bike, it had a snorkel, until I removed it.
HTH.
PaulSV650S
18-07-07, 04:29 PM
Ok maybe the air is different in th U.S. lol... you guys are killing me I thought this was a place to share ideas wow,,,, I guess not lol....:rolleyes: ... what do you guys think a performance or after market exhaust does??? just sound louder thats cool.... no it allows the hot gases/air that just got pumed in through your restrictive air box out faster and with less stress to the engine. so if we SUCK in air easier and PUSH it our easier does it make it EASIER on the engine??????So now the engine works less harder making power. Do you guys watch performance mechanic shows over there? How to type shows on how to get more power from your car, they start with what um the Air Filter Box then the Exhaust system, Then maybe some other mods...... You guys are very funny :smt045
PaulSV650S
18-07-07, 04:32 PM
My 06 did not have a smorkel the front of the air box top has a small opening molded into the shape of the box nothing to really remove. I wonder if the EURO model is different than the U.S. model?
My 06 did not have a smorkel the front of the air box top has a small opening molded into the shape of the box nothing to really remove. I wonder if the EURO model is different than the U.S. model?
If this moulded opening was pointing downwards behind the head, that was the snorkel. If you take the top off the airbox, you can remove the moulding pretty easily.
this thread is painful to read
](*,)
PaulSV650S
18-07-07, 04:40 PM
It must a different type box. the opeing in the top was just behind the steering head pointing down about and inch if that.
Biker Biggles
18-07-07, 04:42 PM
It is painful is it not?
We all agree that opening up the inlet side and the exhaust side allows an engine to flow more mixture and hence make more power if the fuel is upped to suit,but we also know that you will not get a reduction in RPM at a given speed in a given gear as a result.
If my bike does 70MPH at 5000 revs in top gear,and I tune the engine to give me 10% more power,it still does 70MPH at 5000 revs in top gear.It may get there quicker,but unless I alter the gearing nothing else changes.
:nomore:
PaulSV650S
18-07-07, 04:45 PM
so if you hard headed guys try what I mentioned and it works please reply as such.... Stupid American...........lol
Biker Biggles
18-07-07, 04:47 PM
Did you fit a variomatic gearbox at the same time?:rolleyes:
PaulSV650S
18-07-07, 05:00 PM
Ok I give up I'm lying you guys win,,, I'll just enjoy my fantasy of driving my bike that has no changes other than the handle bars and the TOP OF THE AIR BOX off around here with it running smoother making more power saving fuel using less RPMs it's ok I like my dream world,,,,,, So then why do you guys take the snorkel off again? oh well on to the next subject global warming lol lol
PaulSV650S
18-07-07, 05:04 PM
Try it then comment this is a challenge what can it hurt for you guys to try but take notes before and after the change.......the RPMS GEAR and SPEED,,,,,whats a few mins to try it out instead of watching Benny Hill give it a shot.
danf1234
18-07-07, 05:26 PM
same as Baph - just a K&N filter , tank raisers and snorkel off
Same here but with a piper cross filter
PaulSV650S
18-07-07, 07:07 PM
I understand the mechanics of what you are saying but you are seeing the fact that it does lower the RPM rate compared to the rate of speed thus allowing for a different gear to be used. using a lower rpm for the same amount of work as a higher load with a higher rpm,,,,, so by what you are saying that all bikes that have the same gearing gsxr, R6 or what ever would do the exact same speed with the same rpms with the same gear....?????
:roll: so by letting warm air into your engine changes the gear ratios in the gearbox?
i can see how that will work Not :nomore:
what you are saying that all bikes that have the same gearing gsxr, R6 or what ever would do the exact same speed with the same rpms with the same gear....?????
you got it :thumbsup:
PaulSV650S
18-07-07, 07:17 PM
Ok stay in the dark and be happy good luck I'm done since the eyes are shut and I ride the Bike everyday and know what it does and does not..... wow good luck with you guys not trying something that is proven to work on most vehicles other and Suzuki SV650S. so either I am lying or I don't know what gear I am in yea right just been riding for 24 years but yep maybe I have not figured out 5 speed 6 speed hmmmm clutch whats a clutch???? LOL I hope this will be my last reply to this string.
thedonal
18-07-07, 07:48 PM
I think that the point the guys are making, to put a slightly objective opinion on this (I have a slightly scraped standard exhaust on and standard air filter, with the top on, little mechanical expertise and haven't considered modding the bike) and no flaming intended whatsoever, is that the actual rpm against the speed shouldn't be any different- the gears still have just as many cogs on, the chain as many links and again the sprockets as many cogs. Therefore, in a certain gear, x amount of revs will equate to y amount of miles/kilometres/cubits/hairlengths per hour/minute/time to boil a kettle.
The difference in power is how much fuel/air/oil/calories used twisting your right wrist that gets it there and how quickly the engine will get to or past said rev count. Hence you can go past a speed camera, with a bit of experience, in a gear knowing how quick you are by the pitch of the engine noise- cos it'll always be the same amount of revs. Also, if the peak BHP is increased, it shows how far up the rev range in 6th gear the bike will get before it givs up trying.
So- yes, getting more air in and out of the bike will affect the performance and the speed. The the relative revs/measure speed is the same.
But the risks of removing the filter are as said- more nasty cr@p has the opportunity of getting in the engine. Yes, it's more often done on cars- but there's far more inbetween the outside air and the air intake on the engine to prevent so much getting into the engine and spoiling the mix. Our SV's tend to have little bodywork to shield the engine from the environment.
Also remember that many of us live in England- it rains cats, dogs, locusts, old ladies, used lottery tickets, politicians and occasionally even water over here for (this year anyway) about 90% of the time. So there's far more opportunity for nastiness to get in and spoil our lovely V-Twins. Wales also get the rain of anti Brunstrum campaigners and those in Sunny Scotland often get regular rains of George Galloway's latest rants. er.
Also- again without trying to rain on your parade/helpful suggestion, we can sometimes observe something that we expect to happen that perhaps is not as pronounced as we think- have a look at the link below to find out. Basically, I'm saying that without chucking your bike on the dyno, you don't know what measured difference you'll get- even though it may feel faster, perhaps because you expect it to.
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap070717.html
Please, anyone correct me if any of the above is, well, not correct! :D
PaulSV650S
18-07-07, 08:25 PM
I am good to go with the weather conditions that you would have on the island...I love Brit humor. Maybe I am not saying this correctly. per gear I can maintian a speed or obtain a speed at a lower RPM that when the air box on and ofcourse both with a filter. again I can run at 5500 rpm in 4th gear at say 55 mph that prvious to removing the air box the same was for 5th gear. I have verified this a few times. I put the box on then off then on again to see if what I was seeing was different. I do agree with the possibility of more stuff getting to the air filter by having the top off. so if you guys want to continue with this topic go for it but I am done. I did enjoy the conversations and look forward to many more. Thank you for the input.
Biker Biggles
18-07-07, 08:33 PM
How many African Swallows would you need to change a front sprocket?
At least an airbox full.:farao:
How many African Swallows would you need to change a front sprocket?
At least an airbox full.:farao:
:winner:
again I can run at 5500 rpm in 4th gear at say 55 mph that prvious to removing the air box the same was for 5th gear.
So now, at 55mph, you are running lower rpm in 4th gear than you were before? Is that basically what you are saying?
Sorry, but it's nonsense, literally. You haven't changed the gearing- there is NO possible way, (unless your clutch was slipping somehow before, very unlikely) that the rpm/speed relationship could change. The speed of the rear wheel is DIRECTLY linked to engine speed, not engine power.
Heck, take your spark plugs out and freewheel down a hill in-gear (don't do it). The RPM at a given speed will be the same as if you're on the flat with a 90hp modified sv. (As long as you didn't change the gearing ;) ).
northwind
18-07-07, 09:34 PM
Do you guys watch performance mechanic shows over there?
No, I don't watch TV, I just tune the **** out of my SV in my garage :) It's flowing a lot more freely than yours, with its full race system and the Race RS filter (which is an open-top number with a larger surface area than the pointy filter). I know this to be the case, as if yours was flowing as freely as mine it'd be as lean as a tower of pisa, an SV engine will basically not run under such conditions. And my rear wheel vs revs rates are exactly the same as they were before I tweaked it. So, it'd be wise to stop repeating "Try it" as if nobody else here has ever improved the airflow of a bike.
I'm not getting into the performance issue- I just don't know enough about pointies to know if this mod hits the golden spot between flowing more air and flowing too much, or if losing the snork or lid has any downsides. I think you probably will be seeing some benefits, but I only really trust my own findings on stuff like this since you can get a contradictory opinion on anything.
But, you've not said anything that gets around the whole direct drive problem. In fact, you've completely ignored it, and talked about performance instead. wheel rpm = engine rpm x drive ratio, at all times, unless there's a slip in effect (clutch).
This thread's maybe getting needlessly sarky, but until you manage to challenge that last point you're getting nowhere. And you can't.
toonyank
18-07-07, 10:14 PM
:roll: so by letting warm air into your engine changes the gear ratios in the gearbox? YEAH AND FINAL DRIVE
Exactly, what a load of bo**ocks! Maybe a good enough idea for breathing sake but I think Paulsv650s needs to think this one through. It would be a miracle if it were true:rolleyes:
ClemsonSV
18-07-07, 11:32 PM
Try it then comment this is a challenge what can it hurt for you guys to try but take notes before and after the change.......the RPMS GEAR and SPEED,,,,,whats a few mins to try it out instead of watching Benny Hill give it a shot.
As a fellow American...I'm going to have to agree with the nice "Brits" as you call them. No matter what you do, you will not change how fast you are going in "said gear" or what rpm that said gear is turning. I do, however, understand what you are saying by more power at a said RPM...that does make sense. Everything else is a headache.
edit: Did you fail phsyics? I hope you are not an Engineer.
BigBaddad
19-07-07, 05:58 AM
You should try doing this, and I promise you you can go faster at lower engine speeds with no mods at all...and saves a whole lot of fuel.:rolleyes:
Ride to the top of a big hill, then ride down again when you hit 70mph in top gear, pull that lever on the left all the way in. Your speed will increase and engine rev's will drop to below 1000rpm:smt119
I think problem is that he's talking in American whereas we of course all read it as if it were English.
I think most people have given him an unnecessarily hard time on this. The way I'm choosing to interpret what is said is that due to the mod the engine is producing that 1bhp more. We all know that Power = Torque x RPM so it follows that if power is up then Torque must have been increased. So this could give rise to a situation whereby you could pull a given speed in a higher gear than before without the bike complaining or bogging down.
I hope I've spoken in English and not BS above. If I've got anything wrong I expect to get a very hard time from you all.
You should try doing this, and I promise you you can go faster at lower engine speeds with no mods at all...and saves a whole lot of fuel.:rolleyes:
Ride to the top of a big hill, then ride down again when you hit 70mph in top gear, pull that lever on the right all the way in. Your speed will increase and engine rev's will drop to below 1000rpm:smt119
Funny that - when I pull in the lever on the right all the way in, my speed DECREASES - significantly!
Sid Squid
19-07-07, 07:11 AM
Ease up boys and girls! Apart from a slight misunderstanding, (it must be said I don't think PaulSV650S expressed himself well first time out, but he hasn't said anything wrong). Take your time reading the first post, he does appear to say that changing the intake baffling changed gearing, but has since clarified that isn't what he intended to mean, simply that a given situation that required a given gear can now be achieved in another with the consequent difference in revs.
Another thing to consider, is water. More air, more water. Do you want water seeping through the air filter & getting mixed with fuel in the cylinders? I certainly don't. In your situation, only the gas tank will really stop water getting to the air filter. I also have the airbox top to help this..
This has come up a number of times before, (may have been the 1000 site - don't remember exactly), the dirt and water issue hasn't proven to be a problem, there are a couple of bits available, such as the JHS part that resembles the base of the airbox lid, that hold the filter in so it will seal, it may distort if you just use washers. There would have to be a sincere flood before there were enough water to cause a problem.
Note though, as I said, if the fuel mix is too lean, the bike will still run OK, but you'll be doing damage to the valves/shims by riding it in that state. That can get real expensive real quick.
Ummm... How? Running lean may raise the engine temperature overall, (I can explain why if needed), but won't specifically effect upon the valves, lack of clearance can affect valves, particularly the exhaust - I've never seen a burnt inlet. Lean running will affect cylinder/piston sooner than valves.
You should try doing this, and I promise you you can go faster at lower engine speeds with no mods at all...and saves a whole lot of fuel.:rolleyes:
Ride to the top of a big hill, then ride down again when you hit 70mph in top gear, pull that lever on the right all the way in. Your speed will increase and engine rev's will drop to below 1000rpm:smt119
Errr... Left? Pulling the lever on the right will arrest your progress completely I would have thought. :D
Sensible stuff.
Agreed.
BigBaddad
19-07-07, 07:45 AM
I hope you don't notice the edit :rolleyes: ......eer mmmm I though that US models where left hand drive:stupid:
what a wined up, great bit of entertainment this thred was, so did we end up potato or potarto, but you do really get more revs it goes right into the red :shaking:
petevtwin650
19-07-07, 02:07 PM
example 55mph before was 5th gear at 5,500 rpms now it is 4th gear at the same rpms. ....let thoses horses free....:smt077 and go kick some butt.......................
So this statement he has since retracted?
And BigBaddad is your tickover lower than 1000 revs then? Good comeback though on the wrong lever.:p
northwind
19-07-07, 03:29 PM
Ease up boys and girls! Apart from a slight misunderstanding, (it must be said I don't think PaulSV650S expressed himself well first time out, but he hasn't said anything wrong
Well... Actually, nearly true, the first post was right, it's only once he started trying to defend himself he got it wrong, which is odd :)
you can get more air just like above by removing the air box lid thus decreasing the rpms for a given speed in a said gear
One of the funniest threads Ive read for a long time, I really was laughing out loud. Good one. Especially the African Swallows.
I can see 3 options, our geographically challenged friend means he can change up earlier but somehow cant express it, in fact denied this at one point.
or He has a very good wind up technique
or the final option is too worrying to think about.
I did know a blacksmith who insisted that water oozed out of steel when it was heated with an acetylene torch, he had seen it often,
maybe the swallows are not what they seem.
Cheers
Pod
ClemsonSV
19-07-07, 03:49 PM
I just hope it doesn't prevent him from posting on here again.
No hard feelings Paul?
I think we all know what you mean by now and understand that it was just an error in communicating that meaning and personally, I'm over it.
toonyank
19-07-07, 07:54 PM
I just hope it doesn't prevent him from posting on here again.
No hard feelings Paul?
I think we all know what you mean by now and understand that it was just an error in communicating that meaning and personally, I'm over it.
Yes, no hard feelings Paul I hope ;) . The "English" sarcasm just comes naturally after 10 years here as I am also a Yank. Name Toonyank is Toon=(Newcastle United Supporter) yank=(Yankdoodle dandy) :D
PaulSV650S
20-07-07, 01:56 AM
I meant no harm towards the Great Brits I truly enjoy what comes out of that counrty. My family is english / irish and they are proud of that other than the german side of the family. I have yet to figure out how the gear thing came into this all I meant was the breaths easier and lowers the stress on the engine so it works smoother allowing for more horse power. wow.. bloody hell.....I was on my bike today thinking what did I say wrong to explain how much this has helped that 70 horses to be more free maybe gaind 2 3 4 5 horses but anys that is a dead horse lol. I was not ready for the full sarcastic attack by you guys. I guess if you take one on the rest follow. yes I got the monty python thing love holy grail... so this is me running away.......run away run away... I still feel that it lowered the rpms per each gear previous to the change and allow quicker exceloration. I have done this to several cars with exhaust changed out and helped alot. Thanks for the back up:smt044
BigBaddad
20-07-07, 06:48 AM
Ah.....you're part Irish. It's all clear now!
thats tight bigbaddad lol your gonna have him a nervous reck
BigBaddad
20-07-07, 09:16 AM
Just a bit of friendly fire:smt104 ...Ooops, I just can't stop myself.
Biker Biggles
20-07-07, 10:41 AM
Wot did I tell you?
He's not the Massiah.He's not even the Holy Grail.
He's a very naughty boy.:smt023
More bangs per buck from a Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch and a f&rt in the general direction of the throttle body.;)
Alpinestarhero
20-07-07, 11:41 AM
I find riding with a tailwind helps increase the shiftyness of an SV
As does removing the topbox
But i still pull somewhere around 5500 rpm when doing 70 mph in top?
It can go all the way to over 100 if my above tunings are implemented :D
BTW, northwind, I think we should submit the unit of "buttload" to IUPAC to become an official unit of measurment.
Matt
northwind
20-07-07, 02:34 PM
I was not ready for the full sarcastic attack by you guys. I guess if you take one on the rest follow.
We're like sharks. p**sed sharks.
SoulKiss
20-07-07, 02:44 PM
We're like sharks. p**sed sharks.
With Frikkin Lasers
RhythmJunkie
21-07-07, 12:23 PM
I see a name and I see global warming and I'm putting 2 and 2 together here. Someone hell bent on climate change and the environment could go on petrolhead message boards and tell everyone to run their engines lean and seize them could they not. Now where have I seen this before? Would 10,000 gullible none technical posters try this and blow their engines? If this person were to go on only 5 message boards per month it wouldn't take long. People will believe anything, they even believe we are all doomed from global warming don't they 'Paul'?
I wonder what the weather is like down there in sunny antarctica?!:cool:
Its no good backing off the real issue here guys. This idiot is telling everyone that its ok to run your engine lean....its not. If you did that with a 2 stroke you could seize it before you got into top gear! As someone here has mentioned before, the engine management system would not compensate because its programmed to expect a certain amount of air and vacuum pressure in the airbox so it will only give a limited amount of fuel per engine rpm. If suddenly there is less vacuum pressure and more air flowing with the same fuel rate the engine will either misfire or worse will run but overheat.
The only way to get less rpm for a given speed is raise your gearing and this guy has not admitted this. Be wary people this guy is either a scammer or a freakin idiot or both! Don't get suckered in leave your airboxes alone!
...and don't tell me how to speak English Paul cos thats what I am, its our language remember? If you are American of English/Irish descent why do you write English grammar like its a second language to you???
:nomore: before someone takes you up on your stupid idea and blows their engine!
21QUEST
21-07-07, 02:28 PM
http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/konfus/k030.gif RhythmJunkie, what are you on about again?
Could please repeat in English and preferably without the nedless insults http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/froehlich/a010.gif
Ben
northwind
21-07-07, 03:00 PM
Could please repeat in English and preferably without the nedless insults http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/froehlich/a010.gif
You know... I'm not entirely sure he can ;)
MeridiaNx
21-07-07, 03:23 PM
Ha! Just read this, thought it was all sorted, settled differences like gentlemen and all agreed there was a misunderstanding/breakdown of communication.
Didn't expect the KO attempt from RhythmJunkie!
:smt062 :smt071 :smt070:smt068:smt067:smt066:smt063
I think I shall sit back and watch the carnage quietly.
:-dd
Ha! Just read this, thought it was all sorted, settled differences like gentlemen and all agreed there was a misunderstanding/breakdown of communication.
Didn't expect the KO attempt from RhythmJunkie!
:smt062 :smt071 :smt070:smt068:smt067:smt066:smt063
I think I shall sit back and watch the carnage quietly.
:-dd
Well, don't hog all the popcorn.................pass it over!:D
MeridiaNx
21-07-07, 03:37 PM
I just looked for the 'popcorn' smilie but I can't find it anywhere! Sure there used to be one on the list somewhere :scratch:
That's ok, I don't really like popcorn anyway................I'm more a nuts girl.
Do they have a smilie for those....................a u rated one, of course;)
MeridiaNx
21-07-07, 03:52 PM
Oh my :smt047
21QUEST
21-07-07, 03:57 PM
You know... I'm not entirely sure he can ;)
I dunno. You might be right but everyone deserves a second go. There is a check spell thingywotsitsfacility on the site I think ;)
:smt046 @ MeridiaNx. There will be no carnage...just total obliteration :smt035 ;)
:-o @ Lissa :smt044
Ben
RhythmJunkie
21-07-07, 06:12 PM
Someone told me once I'd get more power from an RD400 if I took the air filter out...thats how I know what I'm talking about dudes. One melted engine later!!! This guy is stating the same thing run the bike lean...same result!
I'm insulting him? He's insulting all of you by telling you this. I get my info from researching papers by scientists and labs and mechanics, there aint no mechanic told this guy to run an engine with an airbox lid filter or anything similar removed!
Any of that popcorn left? :)
Alpinestarhero
21-07-07, 06:22 PM
Ok, heres just a thought. What if we could pressurise the airbox in some way? What effect would that have?
BTW rythmjunkie, what do you use to get literature for engineering and stuff?
Matt
yorkie_chris
21-07-07, 06:24 PM
Ever heard of a supercharger?
Alpinestarhero
21-07-07, 06:26 PM
Ever heard of a supercharger?
True...'nuff said :cool:
Matt
yorkie_chris
21-07-07, 06:29 PM
Now the question is where to put the blower....
(or maybe use one of those rayjay draw through turbos....)
:smt033
Alpinestarhero
21-07-07, 06:33 PM
Now the question is where to put the blower....
(or maybe use one of those rayjay draw through turbos....)
:smt033
I got a quick fix to double my power.....
....take out those bloody restrictors.
Also, I think removing the air filter and raising the tank would work, and taking off the top of the airbox....
Matt
Any of that popcorn left? :)
Sorry, Mate, scoffed the lot:oops:
I've found a couple of furry nuts down the side of the sofa though, if they're any good to you:D
fizzwheel
21-07-07, 06:37 PM
Ok, heres just a thought. What if we could pressurise the airbox in some way? What effect would that have?
Some of the bigger sportsbikes have air intakes designed to do just this, if you read some of the bike mags they'll natter on about "Ramair" which is what they are talking about.
It only works when going at a decent speed and IIRC its good for a few extra BHP but not alot else.
yorkie_chris
21-07-07, 06:37 PM
Hmmm, is nitrous allowed on 33hp license? :p
yorkie_chris
21-07-07, 06:38 PM
Some of the bigger sportsbikes have air intakes designed to do just this, if you read some of the bike mags they'll natter on about "Ramair" which is what they are talking about.
It only works when going at a decent speed and IIRC its good for a few extra BHP but not alot else.
SRAD ring a bell for anyone?
(suzuki ram air direct)
Alpinestarhero
21-07-07, 06:38 PM
Some of the bigger sportsbikes have air intakes designed to do just this, if you read some of the bike mags they'll natter on about "Ramair" which is what they are talking about.
It only works when going at a decent speed and IIRC its good for a few extra BHP but not alot else.
Gotcha...i guess its really only good when your racing and hitting the high speeds where the air pressure coming into the box is high in the first place.
matt
RhythmJunkie
21-07-07, 06:48 PM
But you increase jets etc to account for the extra air....more air same fuel does not a happy engine make or more horses!
Info comes from books, web, mechanics, scientists etc., I take in a wide range of info to try and get some accuracy. I don't just dream this up! Anyone calls me stupid I don't care cos its not my words all I do is convey what the 'experts' say!
yorkie_chris
21-07-07, 06:52 PM
Yeah you can increase jet sizes to cope, just like you should if you de-gut the airbox (fair enough most SVs run rich as stock anyway so you might not have to)
But consider, if you jet for 100mph+ when ram air is making a few psi of "boost" then at low speeds then you'll be running way rich, if these are designed sensibly then they'll be injected with an inlet air pressure sensor (as much as I dislike electronic jiggery-pokery)
I think the tone of your post was unnecessary, and what was all that stuff about global warming for? It really did give the impression that you were just venting steam. Nobody called you stupid as far as I can tell.
Also, English is the international language at the moment, don't be so protective of it - from what I can gather on the internet, we write and spell it to a much lower standard than most of the rest of the world :)
OT: r.e global warming. I'll assume you're a lay-person like I am. The rational thing to do is listen to the generally popular opinion within the scientific community.
RhythmJunkie
21-07-07, 06:58 PM
Thats right chris, taking the bike for a run on full throttle high gear then shutting off engine to check plugs and having to do that over and over till you find the right jets! What a lot of mucking about. What do they do nowadays? Just plug the laptop in and remap the injector control??
RhythmJunkie
21-07-07, 07:11 PM
The rational thing to do is listen to the generally popular opinion within the scientific community.
I do! ;)
This guy reminds me of someone who called himself Paul, used to go around telling people mechanical bulls**t so they wreck their engines. He wanted everyone to cycle and throw away there cars because they were killing the planet. Could be the same guy but its getting more difficult to spot his posts. Lets face it what he says is crap. You can't get less rpm for the same speed by adding more air to your air/fuel mix. Where does he get his info because it goes against the laws of physics!! Yes I do know what RAM air systems are I used to own a Suzuki GT250....did I just admit that? :oops: I also know how superdooper chargers and turbo function, sometimes upjetting isn't needed but thats usually when using different air filters, junking part of the airbox or dumping the filter is folly.
RhythmJunkie
21-07-07, 07:12 PM
By the way I wasn't refering to you Sinbad! ;)
northwind
21-07-07, 07:22 PM
But you increase jets etc to account for the extra air....more air same fuel does not a happy engine make or more horses!
Well... Yep, but it's not quite that simple. Frinstance, you can generally run a K&N on a carbed SV without causing any problems. You're shifting marginally more air, but not very much. Also, you're working from the assumption that all bikes come perfectly mapped/jetted from the factory, which also isn't the case- some bikes come rich, some lean. So, you often can lean the mix without causing any problems. And you have to a) substantially lean the mix, and b) ignore all the symptoms of a rich engine, to get c) catastrophic failure.
Of course, the contradition here is that everyone wants to fit filters or exhausts or whatever to improve their power, but nobody wants to rejet/remap- when of course the only breathing mods that don't require a remap/jet are the ones that aren't doing an awful lot. :rolleyes:
skidmarx
21-07-07, 07:24 PM
I do! ;)
This guy reminds me of someone who called himself Paul, used to go around telling people mechanical bulls**t so they wreck their engines. He wanted everyone to cycle and throw away there cars because they were killing the planet. Could be the same guy but its getting more difficult to spot his posts. Lets face it what he says is crap. You can't get less rpm for the same speed by adding more air to your air/fuel mix. Where does he get his info because it goes against the laws of physics!! Yes I do know what RAM air systems are I used to own a Suzuki GT250....did I just admit that? :oops: I also know how superdooper chargers and turbo function, sometimes upjetting isn't needed but thats usually when using different air filters, junking part of the airbox or dumping the filter is folly.
I think you will find that the 'Ram Air' system on your old GT had nothing to do with induction in any way, but was rather a series of scoops and fins that sat high up the barrells and across the heads in a desperate attempt to divert more cold air across the melting cylinders heads!
Cool bike though....
Biker Biggles
21-07-07, 07:25 PM
Help help I'm being oppressed.
Come and see the violence inherent in the forum.:jocolor: :jocolor:
Alpinestarhero
21-07-07, 07:32 PM
Help help I'm being oppressed.
Come and see the violence inherent in the forum.:jocolor: :jocolor:
Violenc eon the SV forum
What a quaint occurence :shock:
Matt
By the way I wasn't refering to you Sinbad! ;)
Thanks for adding that. I must admit I was ready to put my angry hat on for a moment there.
thedonal
21-07-07, 10:51 PM
Now tell me again, Sir Biggles, of the use of bananas to prevent tankslapping.
ClemsonSV
22-07-07, 05:10 PM
Holy s*** I thought I had ended the s*** talking about this guy with a polite apology for ragging on him and all. If people want to mess with there bikes based only on a post on a forum then they get what they deserve. Rhythm, You are out of line. Take a chill pill and go about your happy way tuning your bike correctly just like the rest of us that aren't to cheap or stupid to take shortcuts.
THAT IS ALL:reaper:
Alpinestarhero
22-07-07, 06:59 PM
Now tell me again, Sir Biggles, of the use of bananas to prevent tankslapping.
Attracts monkeys, who hang onto bike and prevent one from riding fast enough to get a tankslapper?
Matt
RhythmJunkie
22-07-07, 07:41 PM
Skidmarx.....yep.....RAM air 'cooling' was all it twas! :D I believe it was a bit of a gimmick, not very functional.
Clemson.....pill swallowed! ;) :D
I have known people who would act on this sort of advice and I always tell people to get several qualified opinions first before changing anything.
I always have references to back up my claims if requested.:smt023
This has made me reinvestigate serious tuning, something I don't normally do myself, tooo safety conscious, found out yesterday that an SV650 can be tuned for 100bhp :smt101 :thumbsup: [-o<
Just think what you could do with the thou'!!:smt101 :smt101
northwind
22-07-07, 07:48 PM
found out yesterday that an SV650 can be tuned for 100bhp
Yep. But not for very long :) I think the highest seen on a dyno (if the dyno police are reading, that'd be a DJ200 or 250, at the wheel) was 107, but even that was a suicide build despite running on aftermarket crank, rods, etc.
yorkie_chris
22-07-07, 10:01 PM
Just out of curiosity, was there a particular weak spot?
(for the record it would be much easier to buy a TL!)
northwind
22-07-07, 11:07 PM
Don't know really... I've heard that there's an inherent weak spot in hte design of the SV crank, and that the aftermarket guys really have no choice but to include it, or replace the cases... But I don't know what. Also, you get sleeve issues if you bore out too much, other stuff like that.
PaulSV650S
23-07-07, 11:15 PM
One tard boy the global warming thing a joke,,, I bet your bike is the same color as a short bus. Most or all will run out and slap on an aftermarket exhaust and not even question the fact that some engines need some level of back pressure to work properly. the out come of "to low" of back pressure is a blown head gasket and warped head...but thats ok. I did not say ditch the air filter just the top of the box. Do I sound like a tree hugger, you fish and chips freak. I have changed the air filter on almost every vehicle I have owned to a manufactured free flowing filter such as an open air chonicle type. Yes I am talking to you rhythmjunkie. Do you have any idea what the air box is for? WOW the top of the box has been off for 6 months now and holy **** plugs look fine enige runs great..nothing coming out of the factory back pressured exhaust other than toxic fumes....
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