Im going for the Z6's

[John 675]

With payday looming in a week and my D220 just lasted 8000 miles till the cotton started showing through i called up my tyre guy who said that the PR2's are still being recalled go for the BT020's @ £180 fully fitted ride in ride out . . . was a bit skeptical
so i read up on here and the Z6's had such amazing reviews so once again called the tyre guy and hes offered the Z6's @ £190 fully fitted
so im giving them ago, i really hope i see a markable difference in wet weather grip. :p

[Tim in Belgium]

Enjoy your new tyres, should be a good change.

[MeridiaNx]

Just to let you know, the PR2s are only being recalled on a certain profile AND the ones that are made in France. It is a 170 that is having the problems, so if you have a 650 and are fitting the usual 120/60, 160/60 combo then you would have no problems with the PR2s. Don't know what the SV1000 takes though in terms of tyre profile...?

I had Z6s as my old tyre and yes, they were great, but I prefer the PR2s now. Confidence, especially in the wet, is awesome. From what I've read recently, the Z6s are part of what is now becoming a superceded class of tyre what with Michelin and now someone else (Bridgestone 021s I think) offering 2CT technology. Think Pirelli might have one coming out too. So have a double check of your desired profile, if it aint 170 then you have nothing to worry about.

[muzikill]

I will vouch for 021's feeling a heck more better in the wet than z'6, the 6's always felt like i was on a knifes edge with them.

[John 675]

I will vouch for 021's feeling a heck more better in the wet than z'6, the 6's always felt like i was on a knifes edge with them.

Thats a fair opinion, but what i have to ask is, will the SV be better with the Z6's than it was on the D220's ?
will i see a big improvement over the stock rubber?

[fizzwheel]

Z6's will offer a huge amount more grip, feedback and wet weather performance that the D220's

Don't worry you've made a good choice, the bike will feel much better to ride.

[John 675]

Z6's will offer a huge amount more grip, feedback and wet weather performance that the D220's

Don't worry you've made a good choice, the bike will feel much better to ride.

Cheers FIZZ thats what i was looking for mate, i was just a bit worried that i wasnt going to see any difference :confused: the D220's are the only tyre of that type i have ever used so i was a little worried, i havent really heard anything bad about them

two other questions for you now,
are the D220's really that bad? - i dont know as i didnt have much road exp when i got the bike so i wasnt confident as such, then they gave out under braking in heavy rain and i lost complete confidence in them.

secondly,

i know this is a hard question to answer, but are the chances of knee downs greatly improved on the Z6's as appose to the D220s?

Cheers

Lylej :p

[fizzwheel]

Honestly no the D220's are'nt that bad, they work adequately in most types of road conditions. They downfall is that they dont heat very quickly and they also loose their heat quickly to.

I spent 4 weeks on them a couple of winters ago on a loan bike, I was regularly doing 60 mile trips in freezing conditions, they were fine I never had any trouble with slipping and sliding, it was difficult to feel what the tyres were doing though they were very vague.

I found them OK in the wet as well, but maybe thats just me.

The thing is that whilst they are OK, the Z6's are much much superior, they work much better in the wet and where they scored big for me was that they give much much more feedback so you can feel what the bike is doing with a lot more certainty.

As for kneedown well I cant do it, but I suspect that any modern tyre, D220 or otherwise offers sufficent grip for kneedown tomfoolery :D Remember its not about how much grip or sticky tyres or whatever. The main thing to get right for a successful kneedown is your body position on the bike, thats it thats all there is to it. The main thing thats stopping you is that the D220's have robbed you of your confidence, just take it easy get the Z6's scrubbed in get a feel for how the bike rides and you'll find its much more confidence inspiring. Which will allow you to lean the bike more, hang off more experiement with your body position and you'll have done it before you realise it.

There was an article in one of the bike mags a while back about some road test rider getting his knee down on the road on a winter morning on an MV with standard road tyres on, he said that any modern tyre would allow this.

[John 675]

thats all ggod then, i have had the bike banked right over on the d220's but i got a pretty nasty falling feeling :( and decided maybe not on these tyres

one more thing when it comes to scrubbing the tyres in, what is the best method to effectively get the shiny stuff off?
how many miles of taking it easy is normally recommended?

[fizzwheel]

I dont really do anything I just ride it.

Take it steady for the first 10 - 20 miles, once past that bit then start to lean a bit more and pick up the speed.

Try and lean a little more on each corner you come to, and discount any wet miles you do.

I found the Z6's really started to work well after 50 or so miles, but you want to take things easy till you're past a 100 miles really.

You want to ride the bike around corners, dont just do 100 or so miles in a straight line and make sure you get them through a cycle of cold / hot / cold a few times as well. Make sure you do a good long ride on them.

I normally go out and scrub mine in one go.

[John 675]

I dont really do anything I just ride it.

Take it steady for the first 10 - 20 miles, once past that bit then start to lean a bit more and pick up the speed.

Try and lean a little more on each corner you come to, and discount any wet miles you do.

I found the Z6's really started to work well after 50 or so miles, but you want to take things easy till you're past a 100 miles really.

You want to ride the bike around corners, dont just do 100 or so miles in a straight line and make sure you get them through a cycle of cold / hot / cold a few times as well. Make sure you do a good long ride on them.

I normally go out and scrub mine in one go.

That doesnt sound like a bad idea at all because ive got the whole of thursday off, so if the weather isnt too bad i might just go out for the day and hopefully come back with a hundred or so miles on them.
i cant wait to see how the bike feels, ive just had a full service so the chain is tight again and a brand new oil in the engine. i also got my bent yokes finally sorted so all systems go, :p
i just hope that whats left of my d220's hold out on the day i go for the Z6's
ive been quoted £190 including fitting to the bike is that reasonable?

[fizzwheel]

Yeah that price sounds about right.

[MeridiaNx]

I found that D220s to Z6s was a massive leap, Z6s to PR2s was a small increment...not nearly as big as getting onto the Z6s to begin with though. Don't worry, those tyres will do the job no problem and seem to be (at least until the most recent crop of tyres that are just coming out) the firm favourite for the SV.

You won't be disappointed :)

[John 675]

good to hear on that, im looking forward to trying them out
cheers guys for the info, i think i have made a good choice. do they last a good amount of time.

[MeridiaNx]

Well I suppose like all things it depends oh your riding style, if you do track days etc. But for reference I think people can get 8-11k ish from a set, or so I remember reading. Pretty sure that's roughly what I got from mine though I can't be exactly sure 'cos I didn't write it down.

That was a mix of motorways and fast A-road riding, never commuting. So a short answer would be to say 'Yes' I think they will last pretty well. They are a sport touring tyre after all so we're not talking anything silly like you needing a new rear after 3k. IMO.

[John 675]

so we're not talking anything silly like you needing a new rear after 3k. IMO.

Like on the BT014s lol, isnt that what you got fizz out of yours?

[fizzwheel]

Like on the BT014s lol, isnt that what you got fizz out of yours?

No my GSXR ate its 014's 1800 miles was all I managed to get out of a rear, and it was borderline illegal when I changed it.

Mind you it has got a tad more power than an SV has... ;)

( not that I use it all )

Liz reckons she is getting 6K ish out of a rear Z6 on her SV which is her commuter bike which is all pretty much dual carriageway work.

[John 675]

Liz reckons she is getting 6K ish out of a rear Z6 on her SV which is her commuter bike which is all pretty much dual carriageway work.

that sounds pretty good 6k, considering my D220's should of been replaced around that sort of mark i just didnt spot it lol, but i heard that these z6's are a much harder tyre which should give a better feel to the bars right?

[fizzwheel]

I dont know about the hardness / softness thing, but TBH I would imagine that they are softer than the D220's but I'm not 100% sure.

You're right though the Z6's will give you much much better feel for what the bike is doing both through the bars and your backside.

[quikstu]

Z6's will offer a huge amount more grip, feedback and wet weather performance that the D220's

Don't worry you've made a good choice, the bike will feel much better to ride.

I'll second this. I've had the Z6 tyres twice now. Never had a problem or scary moment wi them in wet or dry conditions.

[John 675]

I dont know about the hardness / softness thing, but TBH I would imagine that they are softer than the D220's but I'm not 100% sure.

You're right though the Z6's will give you much much better feel for what the bike is doing both through the bars and your backside.

it would be nice to not feel as if i am floating at the back and be "planted" again
but i seem to ride much better when i can feel the road underneath me so to speak lol, :p

[Baph]

I found that D220s to Z6s was a massive leap, Z6s to PR2s was a small increment...not nearly as big as getting onto the Z6s to begin with though. Don't worry, those tyres will do the job no problem and seem to be (at least until the most recent crop of tyres that are just coming out) the firm favourite for the SV.

You won't be disappointed :)

IMO, the difference going from D220 to Z6 was the same as going from Z6 to PR2.

The caveat here was the pressures. I don't run recommended pressures. I prefer both the Z6, and the PR2 at higher than recommended pressure. Both were run at 36/42.

The PR2s give too much carcass movement for me at the recommended 33/36. The Z6's give more feedback at higher pressures IMO.

Don't change pressures unless you know what you're doing though. When you do, only change in SMALL amounts GRADUALLY.

[Alpinestarhero]

IMO, the difference going from D220 to Z6 was the same as going from Z6 to PR2.

The caveat here was the pressures. I don't run recommended pressures. I prefer both the Z6, and the PR2 at higher than recommended pressure. Both were run at 36/42.

The PR2s give too much carcass movement for me at the recommended 33/36. The Z6's give more feedback at higher pressures IMO.

Don't change pressures unless you know what you're doing though. When you do, only change in SMALL amounts GRADUALLY.

He;s right - i tried this after baph told me. I didnt go as much as he did, but half way between what he has and the handbook pressures. It feels more planted at higher speeds and a bit better under braking too

Matt

[MeridiaNx]

Hmmm...what was the recommended pressure for the Z6s then? Always ran mine at 36/42, found that the best but thought it was standard. Seem to have forgotten!

So far I've been running my PR2s at 33/36 but was planning to crack them up to 36/42 at some point to see what they felt like, always found manufacturer pressures to be a bit on the low side. Will do it sooner rather than later now, maybe it'll make them feel more of a jump from the Z6s then.

[Baph]

Hmmm...what was the recommended pressure for the Z6s then? Always ran mine at 36/42, found that the best but thought it was standard. Seem to have forgotten!

So far I've been running my PR2s at 33/36 but was planning to crack them up to 36/42 at some point to see what they felt like, always found manufacturer pressures to be a bit on the low side. Will do it sooner rather than later now, maybe it'll make them feel more of a jump from the Z6s then.

TBH, I forget what the recommended pressures were on the Z6s - I seem to recall the back having a recommended 38?? Could be wrong there though.

The PR2s are far more confidence inspiring going around bends with higher pressures. But I found that they're crap at cold conditions (first few miles). Easy to step the back out with engine braking coming up to a bend, and easy to slide around under the throttle too.

Tread carefully, but it only took me a couple of rides to get used to it, and doing it "controlled" (read: expectedly) gives a huge grin, esp when riding hard with an IL4 following close behind. :smt068

[Viney]

I will vouch for 021's feeling a heck more better in the wet than z'6, the 6's always felt like i was on a knifes edge with them.
They must be well sticky then, as that what most people said going form another tyre to the Z6's!! :lol:

I run 33/40 on my z6's

[MeridiaNx]

They must be well sticky then, as that what most people said going form another tyre to the Z6's!! :lol:

Yeah I never had any problems with Z6s in the wet. Think my current PR2s are better again but I think the Z6s are still a good wet tyre. Thought most people found similar?

[Baph]

Yeah I never had any problems with Z6s in the wet. Think my current PR2s are better again but I think the Z6s are still a good wet tyre. Thought most people found similar?

+1. The Z6 is a cracking tyre. I was supprised in the difference between them & the PR2s, I was expecting them to be pretty much indistinguishable.

[John 675]

:D it seems like i have possibly chosen a good set of rubber doesnt it lol, there is always better but as im on the d220's then im glad ive taken a good next step

[MeridiaNx]

+1. The Z6 is a cracking tyre. I was supprised in the difference between them & the PR2s, I was expecting them to be pretty much indistinguishable.

Me too, really notice the difference between the compounds when leaning, although I'm starting to get used to it now/it's becoming less noticeable as they wear.

Even more confidence-inspiring than the Z6s in the wet though, saved me a couple of times including the other day in a full front and back slide over very shiny, bald tarmac in the wet.

[Baph]

:D it seems like i have possibly chosen a good set of rubber doesnt it lol, there is always better but as im on the d220's then im glad ive taken a good next step

lyleyj, out of curosity, what's made you choose the Z6 over the PR2? I saw some comments from you before about the comparisons between the two, and SpannerMan has recommended the PR2s to you has he not? Purely out of interest.

MeridiaNx, I agree about them having more grip in the wet (only not when they're cold & wet). I went from PR2 back to Z6, didn't change riding style, and had to calm down. :oops:

[MeridiaNx]

lyleyj, out of curosity, what's made you choose the Z6 over the PR2? I saw some comments from you before about the comparisons between the two, and SpannerMan has recommended the PR2s to you has he not? Purely out of interest.

Think, from reading between the lines, the answer is in the OP:

my tyre guy who said that the PR2's are still being recalled go for the BT020's @ £180 fully fitted ride in ride out

So the tyre man managed to get his facts wrong...or he's got another reason, margins maybe, for pushing Lyle onto the BTs. Certainly from what I've read an SV shouldn't be affected by the recall as the fault was on different profile tyres, the 170s.

Shame if this dodgy info was the cause of it, but seeing as you went for the Z6s in the end you've got a good pair on the bike now and you won't be disappointed coming from D220s. Maybe give the PR2s a shot next time, I'd highly recommend them.

[John 675]

lyleyj, out of curosity, what's made you choose the Z6 over the PR2? I saw some comments from you before about the comparisons between the two, and SpannerMan has recommended the PR2s to you has he not? Purely out of interest.

got into a cuffufle with it actually because i ordered the PR2's but then the guy called me up and said his mitchilin rep had called him up and recalled his whole batch ?!?!?
and recommended the BS 020's but i hadnt really heard about them, so i read the reviews from the people who had used the z6's on the SV and ordered the Z6's i might go for the PR2's next time tho

[Baph]

MeridiaNx, I'd missed that bit. But as you said, the recall doesn't affect the SV650.

Having met SpannerMan, I don't think that he'd deliberately give out wrongful information (for profit margins etc - tyres are ordered in to suit the person wanting them, not held in stock).

I think that was probably SpannerMan erring on the side of caution. Does anyone know if the 160 profile tyres are actually safe? They haven't been recalled yet, but that's not saying a lot.

Lylej, now that I've seen your post, I think that was the Michellin rep being over-sensative. Better to be safe than have a tyre shred itself at speed. As I said above, there's no proof that the 160 profile rear has been affected, but again, the rep was probably playing safe.

At the end of the day, pretty much any modern tyre will be good enough. It depends what you want out of it. There's stickier tyres than the Z6 or PR2, but they sacrifice longevity for it.

[MeridiaNx]

Funnily enough, the Z6s and the PR2s both have an advantage over the other IMO depending on what you want...

Z6: 'Cos they come with no centre tread pattern to begin with I believe those who like to get value and push the tyres to their limit may 'appear' legal for longer.

PR2: One of the best looking tread patterns available IMO, much prefer the look to the Z6. And something like the ContiAttacks look horrendous I think.

[MeridiaNx]

I think that was probably SpannerMan erring on the side of caution. Does anyone know if the 160 profile tyres are actually safe? They haven't been recalled yet, but that's not saying a lot.

Probably a case of nothing coming out to suggest they're not safe as yet. I think it was a 170 profile, and only those made in France that had the problems. Seeing as Michelin have officially confirmed that the same profile from Spain is absolutely fine I'm sure they'll have checked other versions of the same tyre just to be sure.

Not a whiff of a problem on the 160s so far and I'm sure as soon as it happens just once it'll be in MCN to suggest the problem goes beyong the 170s.

[Lissa]

But it's only the Pilot Powers and the 2CT's that are affected by the recall anyway, not the PR2's, so I don't understand why people would spread misinformation.:?

See link.

http://michelin.blizz.fr/pilotpower/langues/anglais/uk_pilot-power.html

[Baph]

But it's only the Pilot Powers and the 2CT's that are affected by the recall anyway, not the PR2's, so I don't understand why people would spread misinformation.:?

See link.

http://michelin.blizz.fr/pilotpower/langues/anglais/uk_pilot-power.html

Disclaimer, I work in the logistics indurstry, I'm not that sad, really!! :lol:

For us, a 'batch' is merely a group of pallets. Each pallet has the same 'Batch ID' on it (physically). It could be that the rep has ordered a 'batch' of tyres, including the PR2's and Pilot Power's.

Then someone at HQ hits the big red button (usually disclaimed by 10 different "Are you really sure?" messages) that has cancelled shipment of all batches that contain a given product (Pilot Road 2's).

The rep then tells the dealer "My entire batch has been cancelled," the dealer then tells the customer "Maybe you should go for this, whilst I'm waiting for your tyres to get here."

We see similar quite a lot, tyre's aren't bad, but when it's aeroplane parts or brand new BMW's etc, it gets expensive.

All our clients have a "customer safety" policy to my knowledge, that means they'd rather loose money than loose a customer through an accidental death. (That policy is an extension of the "employee safety" one, in which we can shutdown their warehouse any time we see fit, if we believe lives to be in danger.)

So in theory, completely plausable. (We don't ship tyres unless they're fitted to the vehicle though).

[John 675]

Well lucky for me i managed to get the Z6's installed today, the ride home was the best ride in months, to feel like i can get my knee to the deck already was magic, i feel planted to the ground and i have the biggest amount of confidence in them, thanks for all the recommendations guys you ( as always ) have been a good source for good info.

Heres is a snap ( brand new today ) :smt040 :smt040 :smt040 :smt040 :smt040 :D

http://a809.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/71/l_271d52ca6c3f4f248f5465b9919aac10.jpg

[EC8010]

I've been riding my new SV650 for three months now, thirty miles a day into work and back on country lanes. I've lost count of the number of times the rear tyre (Dunlop D220) has stepped out in the wet. Earlier this week, the front slipped in the wet, and yesterday I did a Lewis Hamilton by sliding into a muddy bank (it was either that or dropping the bike onto the tarmac), keeping the engine running, then setting off on the wrong tyres. Those Dunlops have got to go. When I began riding again after a nineteen year hiatus I thought it was my fault, but after two thousand miles it can't really be me any more. I don't remember this ever happening on my Ducati Pantah (or even my CZ125 once I got rid of the Barum tyres). I'm seriously considering claiming for new tyres under guarantee on the grounds that the Dunlops are not "fit for purpose."

Anyway, to get to the point, I'm under orders to get some proper sticky tyres that will allow me the confidence I have on my pushbike in the wet! Z6 - is that Metzeler? PR2 - Pirelli? Any advice on seriously grippy tyres that won't be fazed by wet country lanes with indifferent surfaces?

[John 675]

I've been riding my new SV650 for three months now, thirty miles a day into work and back on country lanes. I've lost count of the number of times the rear tyre (Dunlop D220) has stepped out in the wet. Earlier this week, the front slipped in the wet, and yesterday I did a Lewis Hamilton by sliding into a muddy bank (it was either that or dropping the bike onto the tarmac), keeping the engine running, then setting off on the wrong tyres. Those Dunlops have got to go. When I began riding again after a nineteen year hiatus I thought it was my fault, but after two thousand miles it can't really be me any more. I don't remember this ever happening on my Ducati Pantah (or even my CZ125 once I got rid of the Barum tyres). I'm seriously considering claiming for new tyres under guarantee on the grounds that the Dunlops are not "fit for purpose."

Anyway, to get to the point, I'm under orders to get some proper sticky tyres that will allow me the confidence I have on my pushbike in the wet! Z6 - is that Metzeler? PR2 - Pirelli? Any advice on seriously grippy tyres that won't be fazed by wet country lanes with indifferent surfaces?

i know exactly what you mean on the d220's they are a very old tyre and i didnt like them really at all, Yes the Z6 is by metzler but the pilot road 2's are by Mitchilin. read through this entire thread you will see all the good points of both, to be honest though the SV is classed as a budget bike, including the tyres.. doubt you will get them to refund you, but worth a shot, sorry to hear about your off, hope your al good. :D

[EC8010]

OK, I had Bridgestone BT020 fitted last weekend and promptly put 350 motorway miles on them. I've been riding round twisty country lanes this week and the new tyres are far better than the frightening Dunlop D220. The bike now feels glued to the road and I corner properly with the horizon at an angle.

Conclusion: If you're buying a new SV650 negotiate for decent tyres at the time...

[Ceri JC]

I really like Z6s (must be on my 4th rear one, 3rd front one, IIRC), great in the wet, warm up quickly, grip at all the lean angles I can manage, etc. until now I've not seen any real reason to change. I'm now down to my last spare (I had a few stockpiled) tyre now and once that is used up, I'm considering trying something else. My gripe is this; the rear tyres in particular give no real warning that they are about to give out. They look fine and the tread depth is well (as in about double!) above the legal limit, but then suddenly wear down to the tread. Admittedly when you have an unused tyre next to it you can compare them side and see how deep the profile has worn off, but even then that is very imprecise, unless you kept a spare worn one for comparison. I knew I had gotten a lot of life out of this one, so had been checking it (both for wear and pressure) regularly. 200 miles ago, it looked fine, no sign of the horizontal cracking you get just (about 50 miles in my experience) before it goes through the the metal mesh.

I've noticed this problem in the past, but recently have been doing a lot of longer (500-700) mile trips. Luckily I noticed I had gone through to the mesh at my local petrol station, so it merely delayed me setting off by an hour and a half (whilst I went home and got the tyre changed), rather than stranding me at a services 100s of miles from home, or worse, suffering a blow out.

I suppose the question I'm asking is, other than the afformentioned horizontal cracking, is there any early warning sign? What do most people do, just replace tyres once they are a bit worn and accept they aren't getting the full life out of them (I ride for my job, so really need to get every last bit of use out of my consumables, within reason, so this isn't an option for me)? Do other tyres have an earlier indication that they are about to wear out?

TIA

[G]

I'm still on standard tyres and although I havnt experienced a massive range of other tyres I dont see a massive problem with them.

I dont ride slowly and I lean alot!! I find them predictable and can tell easily when they are going to 'give' when cornering hard.

All this talk of far far superior tyres is making me exicted and wanting to wear them out quicker so I can try something new.

[gettin2dizzy]

D220 is a good tyre. However it really suits heavier bikes. you can certainly get pegs down with them