View Full Version : How can I recover mentally after crashing?
I crashed with a car a couple of month ago. It was not a big accident. I am ok even if my right shoulder still hurts sometimes. My bike is now fully repaired. I have been riding since and even went to France on my own. That's not the problem. The main issue is that I have become totally scared and suspicious of car drivers. I don't trust them at ALL anymore - I have never completly trusted them though! I never drove one! but I now always imagine the worse scenario. In addition, I feel entirely and utterly invisible.
The result is that I don't enjoy riding as much as I used to. Does anyone got any suggestions? Remarks? Miracle cures? Readings? Anything really...
dizzyblonde
30-07-07, 03:24 PM
read the bikers sixth sense thread. you'll find that theres one or two that don't like the invisibilty feeling car drivers give us. However im indoors has had more crashes than hot dinners and titanium parts to boot. He's not scared of them but certainly rides like everyone else on the road is the enemy, so its perfectly natural, and probably not a bad thing.
ClemsonSV
30-07-07, 03:44 PM
When in doubt, honk the horn...and get a louder one while you are at it. Even when you aren't in doubt I honk the horn. Some people get mad, but it's better to have people mad than be dead.
edit: Just don't make them too mad, they might try to run you off the road. Chances are you will be able to filter past them with ease.
I don't trust them at ALL anymore - I have never completly trusted them though! I never drove one!
I drive a car every day and ride my bike often, and I don't trust ANYONE except myself, car or motorcyle alike.
Treat everyone else as if they can't see you and you'll be safe - it doesn't mean I enjoy riding or driving less, if anything it's part of the challenge and that makes it fun for me.
dirtydog
30-07-07, 03:49 PM
rides like everyone else on the road is the enemy
they are the enemy!! :smt071 :smt071 :smt071
ASM-Forever
30-07-07, 04:09 PM
IMO its just a case of getting back on the horse. After my most recent off i am more wary, but thats probably a good thing.
There is no point worrying about what might happen....
Thank you all for your comments. They make me think about the way I feel when I am riding. If I feel that scared, I must look like a victim. Not good being a victim in this wild world... I am going to get eaten alive, innit?
Thank you all for your comments. They make me think about the way I feel when I am riding. If I feel that scared, I must look like a victim. Not good being a victim in this wild world... I am going to get eaten alive, innit?
If you ride agrresively enough to make your presence known, yet defensively enough to give yourself time to avoid incidents then you should survive...innit?
I just treat every road user as an unlicensed, uninsured drug addict with a psychotic streak and I manage to survive.
SoulKiss
30-07-07, 04:21 PM
Ok, where in London are you?
Come along to the Selkent meet on Wednesday - is about a 50 mile round trip from Central London - obviously less if you are out East or South, more if West or North.
Its another 50 miles of riding/experience.
Then come and hang out in Soho on a Friday where you will meet people, be able to talk about this (and share fears/experience) as well as make arrangements for other rideouts.
Its kind of what worked for me after my off, which was totally my own fault, so it was my riding that was the issuem, not traffic, but still very much the same.
David
stuartyboy
30-07-07, 04:33 PM
IDoes anyone got any suggestions? Remarks? Miracle cures? Readings? Anything really...
Have you tried a track day?
Have you tried a track day?
I have never been on a track day. I think that it might be a good idea if there is some teaching involved.
Talking about teaching, I thought about taking a couple of lessons just to give me a confidence boost. I got off the idea because it made me feel like I was going backwards. Doing a riding lesson on a track with a competent instructor sounds better to me.
Thanks stuartyboy
Ok, where in London are you? Come along to the Selkent meet on Wednesday
Then come and hang out in Soho on a Friday where you will meet people, be able to talk about this (and share fears/experience) as well as make arrangements for other rideouts.
I am in East London. I will come. Thank you SoulKiss.
IAM or Bikesafe
"It is necessary for motorcyclists to become 'defensive' drivers in order to avoid becoming casualties" [taken from Bikesafe Website]: I think that tihs might be the main thing that I have forgotten during my physical recovery. I don't know why it escaped me but I am glad that you directed me to Bikesafe and IAM. I will read further later; I've probably forgotten a few more things! Thank you Stu.
Is this your closest?
Normally the first Tues of every month at Channels Golf Club in Chelmsford
Directions
Approx´ 13 miles from the centre of London and a 15 minute drive from the M25.
Leave the M25 at junction 28 (or junction 29), take the A12 (or A127) to Gallows Corner flyover.
Follow the A12 (London bound), at the fourth set of traffic lights and the junction of the Moby D1ck Country Carvery, turn right into Whalebone Lane North.
City Limits is to the right of the first roundabout, at the junction with Collier Row Road.
Arrive here:
Channels Golf Club
Belsteads Farm Lane, Little Waltham, Chelmsford, Essex, CM3 3PT
It's not mine, don't know anything about it. but could put you in touch with someone who does.
read the bikers sixth sense thread. you'll find that theres one or two that don't like the invisibilty feeling car drivers give us. However im indoors has had more crashes than hot dinners and titanium parts to boot. He's not scared of them but certainly rides like everyone else on the road is the enemy, so its perfectly natural, and probably not a bad thing.
Thank you for your reply. It made me think that maybe I was not very safe before the crash and that now I am actually acknowledging the dangers around me while riding. A bit too much maybe at the moment...
The 'Sixth Sense Thread' is a good read.
Is this your closest?
Normally the first Tues of every month at Channels Golf Club in Chelmsford
Directions [.../...]
Channels Golf Club
Belsteads Farm Lane, Little Waltham, Chelmsford, Essex, CM3 3PT
It's not mine, don't know anything about it. but could put you in touch with someone who does.
This place will be easy to access from where I live; about 35 miles from my house straight on the A12. I would like to go if possible. Could you please put me in touch with the person who organises it? Thanks Stu
Someone mentioned riding aggressively earlier.
That is my approach. I don't mean riding like a tw*t or in a risky or dangerous manner. I mean kind of bullying and harassing cars. Making them know you are there. As the other person said you still ride defensively as there is a difference between aggressive and offensive riding if you know what I mean.
kwak zzr
30-07-07, 06:12 PM
took me a while to get to ride my bike properly again after my accident:(
you will feel better after a few months and a few more 100 miles under your belt. make yourself go out on your bike even when you dont really feel like it.
northwind
30-07-07, 06:41 PM
I reckon tuition is a very good idea... You almost certainly will get your groove back over time, but there's ways to speed it up. Just riding with someone you can trust and getting a second opinion can be a huge confidence booster.
I reckon some track time would also be good, it gives you a chance to just ride without worrying so much about what's going on around you. The ones with tuition are great, but also generally expensive :rolleyes: Also, while they make you a better rider in terms of machine skills, that's not really what you're after here is it?
took me a while to get to ride my bike properly again after my accident:(
you will feel better after a few months and a few more 100 miles under your belt. make yourself go out on your bike even when you don't really feel like it.
I have done a lot of miles since the accident. As soon as I felt better, I rode on my own to Bordeaux in two days. I was terrified for the first 100 miles and I was fine riding through the French countryside... Since I came back, I haven't been riding very much. I know that I must face the London traffic again and I know that you are right, I MUST do it even if I don't really feel like it! (My accident happened in London traffic). I must so I will. Tomorrow. Yes. Tomorrow. Thank you Kwak zzr
Someone mentioned riding aggressively earlier.
That is my approach. I don't mean riding like a tw*t or in a risky or dangerous manner. I mean kind of bullying and harassing cars. Making them know you are there. As the other person said you still ride defensively as there is a difference between aggressive and offensive riding if you know what I mean.
Yes, I do know what you mean by riding defensively. At the moment, I think that I am quite aggressive as well as scared. I guess it makes sense: I am feeling scared and insecure therefore I am nasty. It is very frustrating and sometimes an embarrassing way to behave. Anyway, what is the point of shouting inside my helmet? It gives me headaches and sends bad vibrations...
I reckon tuition is a very good idea... You almost certainly will get your groove back over time, but there's ways to speed it up. Just riding with someone you can trust and getting a second opinion can be a huge confidence booster.
Thank you for replying. I have done some riding with my partner last weekend. He is such a great rider, I felt very embarrassed being so clumsy. Silly me!
I reckon some track time would also be good, it gives you a chance to just ride without worrying so much about what's going on around you. The ones with tuition are great, but also generally expensive :rolleyes: Also, while they make you a better rider in terms of machine skills, that's not really what you're after here is it?
Regarding tuitions, I can't afford them at the moment. I am starting a Postgrad in Sept07... I hope you are right, my confidence will be back over time.
IAM
or Bikesafe
Bikesafe yes, IAM I wouldn't give the time of day to.
All it does is fill your head with a "do thiis, do that, in this order" system and conditions the instinctive rider out of you. I can't help but notice that the IAM riders I know are the ones who fall off and crash more than those of us who haven't done their training.
I also find most IAM people to be insufferable up their own backsides bores rattling on about their super-reliable BMWs, while leaning on the courtesy bike they've been given because their own is in for its second shaft drive bevel box replacment in 6,000 miles (I have actually witnessed this myself)
In contrast, I learned a shedload of useful stuff from the police Bikesafe course I attended, and that was after riding for over 25 years.
SoulKiss
30-07-07, 09:11 PM
I am in East London. I will come. Thank you SoulKiss.
No thanks needed, noth open to anyone in the Org, no permission required :)
This Wednesday is the next SELKENT meet, see the thread entitled "The Pied Bull"
If you need someone to follow let me know and we will see what can be arranged :)
David
This evening, I thought that I might feel more confident if I was feeling physically stronger. I looked at different health clubs websites and was discouraged by the fees... I went to visit an athletic club this evening. It looks great: friendly people, good activities and cheap annual membership. I think this will do me good: as well as making me feel physically stronger, I will keep my aggressivity level down and I will feel mentally more balanced.
I have already received a lot of comments and remarks on this thread. I thank you all. I have replied to all of them because every reply made me think about my recovery in a different way.
No thanks needed, noth open to anyone in the Org, no permission required :) This Wednesday is the next SELKENT meet, see the thread entitled "The Pied Bull"
If you need someone to follow let me know and we will see what can be arranged :)
David
I will come on my own. I will give myself time, I will be relaxed and everything will be fine. :D
Bikesafe yes, IAM I wouldn't give the time of day to.
I am sorry to hear you've had a bad experience from IAM. It's only made up of people and people come in all different guises. Of course you are going to get a few that are absolutely complete ****s. H*ll on this site there's more than a fair share of them too but I have found that's it's worth sticking with it and hopefully you'll find some that you get along with
All it does is fill your head with a "do this, do that, in this order" system and conditions the instinctive rider out of you. I can't help but notice that the IAM riders I know are the ones who fall off and crash more than those of us who haven't done their training.
I also find most IAM people to be insufferable up their own backsides bores rattling on about their super-reliable BMWs, while leaning on the courtesy bike they've been given because their own is in for its second shaft drive bevel box replacement in 6,000 miles (I have actually witnessed this myself)
There's quite a few on this site that have done IAM, so they're not all BMW riders & an insurance discount is probably better evidence of being a safer rider than your anecdotal experience.
Aline I've got that email address of the guy at EAMG (IAM) I would pm it to you, but you don't allow pms.
I know you mentioned funds being a little tight due to your pending post grad (good luck with it btw)but the Bikesafe course imho is worth every penny and more. I did mine a couple of years ago with Kent Police after I'd had 2 off's in the space of 3 months and although I didn't view myself at fault I did wonder if I could have done something different. The Bikesafe course gave me a few extra skills/lessons that I could take with me and use, knowing that I had this addtional skillset/knowledge helped with my confidence. From memory it cost me £30.00, which included a brief classroom session and 2 observed rides with excellent feedback and some very useful advice.
The link to the main site is here http://www.bikesafe.co.uk/
It really is worth doing and it's a good day out to boot :)
Hie Aline
Sorry to hear of your crash. I'm a new rider myself, so i can't really offer any advice on riding techniques etc.
However, one positive of your crash must be that its making you more observant and wary of other road users.
So although you're scared at the moment, your riding is probabaly improving even if you're not aware of it.
:grouphug:
ArtyLady
31-07-07, 10:52 AM
Aline I've got that email address of the guy at EAMG (IAM) I would pm it to you, but you don't allow pms.
They are a great bunch there, I did my training with them, I joined because I was at the stage where I was so nervous I would have given up
I didnt take the test due to illness but now (after a long break) Im back on the road, Ive built back up very slowly and now feel like Im once again "cooking with gas" ;-).
They taught me so much, I was very nervous, (like "15 miles an hour round a huge sweeping bend" nervous :rolleyes: ) there was no "pipe and slippers" attitude, the bikes were varied from Classic Nortons to GSXR's and Blades, men and women Observers and trainees, ages from 20ish to ancient!
They teach you to use the IPSGA system - which at first you have to work at but it soon becomes second nature and you do it automatically) you become smoother more confident and more progressive :cool:
Aline I've got that email address of the guy at EAMG (IAM) I would pm it to you, but you don't allow pms.
I have changed my email settings. You should be able to send me emails now.
Red ones
31-07-07, 11:57 AM
The main issue is that I have become totally scared and suspicious of car drivers. I don't trust them at ALL anymore ... In addition, I feel entirely and utterly invisible.
I thought that was normal!
John 675
31-07-07, 04:23 PM
they are the enemy!! :smt071 :smt071 :smt071
WHO - RAH seconded that :D
Essex of Essex
31-07-07, 08:36 PM
CADAM is also in Essex at Chelmsford another good friendly bunch, I ride with them, Caddy2000 trained with and rides with EAMG. The traning is interesting and fun and should help restore your confidence, it did wonders for mine:)
from memory www.cadam.org (http://www.cadam.org) should find the website for the details.
chazzyb
31-07-07, 08:51 PM
There's quite a few on this site that have done IAM, so they're not all BMW riders & an insurance discount is probably better evidence of being a safer rider than your anecdotal experience.
Quite right; it's not mandatory to ride a BMW if you're an IAM member. Four of us from my group went out for a ride this evening: Hinckley Tiger, CBR600F, GSXR600, and me on my naked curvy.:smt045
dirtydog
31-07-07, 09:02 PM
There's quite a few on this site that have done IAM, so they're not all BMW riders & an insurance discount is probably better evidence of being a safer rider than your anecdotal experience.
I have done it and recently passed
I also find most IAM people to be insufferable up their own backsides bores rattling on about their super-reliable BMWs, while leaning on the courtesy bike they've been given because their own is in for its second shaft drive bevel box replacment in 6,000 miles (I have actually witnessed this myself)
:( I'm sorry you feel that way about me :( can't say anymore as i'm off to my nearest Beemer dealer to buy a bike cos that's what i'm meant to be riding ... apparently :rolleyes:
I also find most IAM people to be insufferable up their own backsides bores rattling on about their super-reliable BMWs, while leaning on the courtesy bike they've been given because their own is in for its second shaft drive bevel box replacment in 6,000 miles (I have actually witnessed this myself)
:( I'm sorry you feel that way about me :( can't say anymore as i'm off to my nearest Beemer dealer to buy a bike cos that's what i'm meant to be riding ... apparently :rolleyes:
you really are an insufferable up your own backside bore dd:smt045:smt077
only joking:D
dirtydog
31-07-07, 09:10 PM
you really are an insufferable up your own backside bore dd
:smt075 :smt075 :smt075 :smt075
:( I'm sorry you feel that way about me :( can't say anymore as i'm off to my nearest Beemer dealer to buy a bike cos that's what i'm meant to be riding ... apparently :rolleyes:
you really are an insufferable up your own backside bore dd:smt045:smt077
:smt075 :smt075 :smt075 :smt075
Will you two please get a room!! :p :lol:
P.S. She's right! ;) :lol:
21QUEST
31-07-07, 09:30 PM
Personally, I think the IAM is over rated....
Bleeding 'triangles' always trying to have me off :rolleyes: :p ;)
Ben
seedy100
31-07-07, 10:05 PM
Is this your closest?
Normally the first Tues of every month at Channels Golf Club in Chelmsford
Directions
Approx´ 13 miles from the centre of London and a 15 minute drive from the M25.
Leave the M25 at junction 28 (or junction 29), take the A12 (or A127) to Gallows Corner flyover.
Follow the A12 (London bound), at the fourth set of traffic lights and the junction of the Moby D1ck Country Carvery, turn right into Whalebone Lane North.
City Limits is to the right of the first roundabout, at the junction with Collier Row Road.
Arrive here:
Channels Golf Club
Belsteads Farm Lane, Little Waltham, Chelmsford, Essex, CM3 3PT
It's not mine, don't know anything about it. but could put you in touch with someone who does.
I will almost certianly going to this on Tuesday.
It will only be my second time so still very much a Newby.
There will also be a "training day" on the following Sunday which I plan to attend. (This will be my first )
I would be glad to meet up before hand if you would like some company.
There are several other SV's there.
pm sent
dirtydog
31-07-07, 10:12 PM
Will you two please get a room!! :p :lol:
:makelurve: :makelurve:
SVeeedy Gonzales
01-08-07, 11:57 AM
I got knocked off on the A2 a couple of years back, at 70mph - sideswiped by a car, hit another car, biker was totalled but I was ok. Another biker died further back in the pile up.
I joined the IAM after that, did it for about a year and it was handy but I don't do it anymore - they can get pretty insufferable in the end: their way is right, every other way is wrong. Then they still get knocked off...
I always ride expecting car drivers to do dumb things and every day they try their hardest to please. If you're going to ride a bike you need to have no trust in them, or any other road users. If you're relying on another road user to make you safe, you're putting yourself in danger.
I picked up lots of good stuff from the IAM but you can read it in books and on the web as well. An off road day also helped me - getting used to falling off and having the bike slide around. Any advanced training that helps with observation and bike control will help.
The IAM say 'ride for yourself' - I'd agree with that - you have to accept that virtually every accident or near miss is your own fault, at least partly. That's helpful - sometimes it's too easy to just claim that all car drivers are daft, go out, ride with no allowance for their daftness and then get knocked off. We know they're dangerous and daft, so we need to give them more space and be more careful around them
ArtyLady
08-08-07, 11:19 AM
I will almost certianly going to this on Tuesday.
It will only be my second time so still very much a Newby.
There will also be a "training day" on the following Sunday which I plan to attend. (This will be my first )
I would be glad to meet up before hand if you would like some company.
There are several other SV's there.
pm sent
Did you guys go last night? I have rejoined and did see and speak to a lady on a blue SV...(I was in the car cos it was raining and Im a total wimp!!)
I plan to go on Sunday so maybe see you guys there? :D
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