SV self affirmation [Archive] - SV650.org - SV650 & Gladius 650 Forum

Blue_SV650S

01-08-07, 07:23 PM

ASM-Forever

01-08-07, 07:46 PM

LOL...Blue strikes again :)

IMHO i think everyone likes being the underdog and then sticking one on the favourite. I definitely took pleasure with keeping pace/overtaking better bikes when i had my SV.

Having upgraded(are we allowed to say that!) i can see the other side of it as i do sometimes get buzzed by someone on an 'inferior' bike(Napoleon complex?), who fancies a crack. Sometimes i take the bait and have a play other times i let them past and on their way.

I dont really see it as an issue...if they are happy believing that they were faster than a sportier bike i couldn't really care. I know for sure i sometimes behaved in the same way when i was on the SV.

In reality i think we can all accept that if you put the same rider on an SV and a SS600....he would be faster on the SS. If an SV does own a SS600 then its fair to say that the rider is probably better.

Having registered with a few other sportsbike forums i can say with confidence that the average SV rider is far less of a pillock than the sports bike rider equivalent :)

GregK2

01-08-07, 07:59 PM

I loved my 125cc single cylinder, I loved my 500cc parallel twin, I loved my SV and I love my IL4 SS600. I don't ride to compete with anyone, and if I get buzzed by a maxi scoot I'd wouldn't care.

I love bikes and I don't really care how many cylinders it has.

HTH!

Tim in Belgium

01-08-07, 09:45 PM

I like my SV, but am now finding its limits in different places at different times (although my own riding is often the limiting factor). I want to get a Daytona 675 when funds and employment location allow, but for now the SV does most things pretty well, a SS600 would be better for some things I do, but I can't realistically justify chopping her in + 300 % of her value for the moment. One day I'll have another beast but this beast (or gentle domestic pet), is here to stay for this summer. I'm not blind to the other bikes out there, just choosing to wear heavily tinted sunglasses :)

hovis

01-08-07, 09:50 PM

I like my SV, but am now finding its limits in different places at different times (although my own riding is often the limiting factor). I want to get a Daytona 675 :)are you sure?

;)

the_lone_wolf

01-08-07, 09:52 PM

In reality i think we can all accept that if you put the same rider on an SV and a SS600....he would be faster on the SS.
and poorer...

http://www.kalilily.net/weblog/gone%20fishin.jpg

Tim in Belgium

01-08-07, 09:55 PM

Or a benelli tre, or....

kwak zzr

01-08-07, 09:59 PM

well i got my sv1000 to make me more of a man:)

21QUEST

01-08-07, 10:19 PM

Ok, so we all love our SVs :love: , else A: we wouldn’t own them and B: we probably wouldn’t have joined an SV forum to talk about them all the time!! ;) So that fact is a good as read really.

However, how come I read so many threads with people saying “SVs are better than IL4s as they have torque” … and “ok so, an SV can’t keep with a sports IL4 on the straight, but get them to the twisties and learn them” … and all that BS … do you really think an SV handles better than an IL4? And why do we need this perpetual self affirmation?

Is it plain and simple an inferiority complex??

Nah......it goes like this.

"If you repeat some BS often enough, you can get yourself to really believe it......and if you are really lucky, some other poor souls might even believe you" :smt045 ;)

....or put more eloquently, we could say, some people suffer from reverse 'big JT syndrome' :p

I can't wait for tomorrow. I fancy eating a few SS600 for breakfast :rolleyes: ;)

Ben

northwind

01-08-07, 10:51 PM

Some people just have to believe that what they have is best, or maybe they're not comfortable with the fact that what they like isn't what everyone else likes? There's a lot of delusion around... But that's the same anywhere, go on MVAugusta1000Senna.org and no doubt they'll all be telling each other how the MV's really much better at touring than a Pan European, or somesuch. And if you can't win on facts, then invoke character ;) Since all character is, is flaws with polish on.

It's like football. Your team's rubbish? No, they're not, they're a proper man's team. They don't buy success! They're for local fans! etc etc. They're still rubbish though.

I dunno. I think it's more satisfying to like things for what they are, or what they can be.

21QUEST

01-08-07, 11:01 PM

To be honest, I place the blame squarely on the shoulders of Mr Suzuki. They should have just made a V-twin 'GS500' :D

Like this from the ".....wind" though :cool: I dunno. I think it's more satisfying to like things for what they are, or what they can be.

Ben

dizzyblonde

01-08-07, 11:02 PM

well i love sv's full stop. Never had owt else and don't want neither. im indoors is on the eternal trail of finding his perfect bike an still looking I feel after having a RD500 as his first biggie( think thats right) its a tall order,
so TZR125 x2 (one accident and titanium hip later), RD500 spat him off...three lc350's, YPVS, 2 SRX600's , sv650 and Cagiva V-Raptor1000....guess what....still not satisfied.
I hav now come to the conclusion that blokes can never make their minds up, no matter what they ride
SV or IL4

WHATEVER!!!!!!!

Blue_SV650S

02-08-07, 08:38 AM

Nah......it goes like this.

"If you repeat some BS often enough, you can get yourself to really believe it......and if you are really lucky, some other poor souls might even believe you" :smt045 ;)

I can't wait for tomorrow. I fancy eating a few SS600 for breakfast :rolleyes: ;)

Ben

That is exactly how I see it Ben ;)

Oh and will you be "eating a few SS600s" with your eyes shut?!!? (that term always cracks me up!!???) :D

Blue_SV650S

02-08-07, 08:44 AM

well i love sv's full stop. Never had owt else and don't want neither. im indoors is on the eternal trail of finding his perfect bike an still looking I feel after having a RD500 as his first biggie( think thats right) its a tall order,
so TZR125 x2 (one accident and titanium hip later), RD500 spat him off...three lc350's, YPVS, 2 SRX600's , sv650 and Cagiva V-Raptor1000....guess what....still not satisfied.

That's prolly coz every one of those bikes you mention is a nail!!!! :D

weazelz

02-08-07, 08:46 AM

gettin2dizzy

02-08-07, 08:51 AM

Yeah we all love them (yet most of us aren't slow to jump on ss600s ;)) and there's the usual BS that flies around which is amusing. But I think most of us are aware of what the SV is, a cheap bike that somehow was just put together right - and that works. I remember a review of the F800 vs SV, where the conclusion was "f800 has far superior parts, is faster, turns quicker and will no doubt last longer. But the SV is greater than the sum of its parts; it just works and we like it!"

...but my rs50 will do 120 ;)...

peanut

02-08-07, 09:01 AM

This is my SV. There are many like it but this one is mine
My SV is my best friend. It is my life
I must master it as I must master my life.
Without me, my SV is useless. Without my SV I am useless.
I must ride my SV true.
I must ride harder than my enemy, who is trying to overtake me.
...etc

:winner:

I love my SV.

I prefer twins to fours. I can't explain it or justify it, but why should I have to? It's just the way it is. Always has been, always will be.

My friends who ride fours don't understand my love of the SV, and I don't understand their love of their screaming four-pots. It's just horses for courses, I guess.

Next bike will probably be an RSV Mille, because I'm starting to feel like I want to move on from my SV after 2 very happy years together, and because I can now afford an RSV Mille (if I sell my beloved SV).

Skip

02-08-07, 09:21 AM

Some people just have to believe that what they have is best, or maybe they're not comfortable with the fact that what they like isn't what everyone else likes?
Excellent way of putting it Northwind =D>

Tiger 55

02-08-07, 09:45 AM

Having upgraded(are we allowed to say that!) No. A fellow Orger now riding an R6 recently asked me why I hadn't 'upgraded'. Well, notwithstanding the lecture I got from Sid Squid about 'chasing a unicorn', the SV is the best bike for me for now so it's just not possible to upgrade. Besides, the word hurts my ears.

It's like football. Your team's rubbish? No, they're not, they're a proper man's team. They're for local fans! etc etc. They're still rubbish though.
But what if you support AC Milan? :confused: Not to suggest the SV is the Milan of bikes, it's more Bolton Wanderers.

fizzwheel

02-08-07, 09:50 AM

However, how come I read so many threads with people saying “SVs are better than IL4s as they have torque” … and “ok so, an SV can’t keep with a sports IL4 on the straight, but get them to the twisties and learn them” … and all that BS … do you really think an SV handles better than an IL4? And why do we need this perpetual self affirmation?

I used to think like that. I passed a few Sports bikes and even a Ducati 999 one day on my SV. I thought it was the bee's knees.

Then I got my GSXR and I realised that those riders I had passed, either we'rent very good riders, or didnt know the road as well as I did, or simply just didnt feel like going fast that day.

Alot of the threads / posts I read I really think that the people posting havent had any experience of a IL4 sports bike and as Ben says they just believe what other people say without finding out for themselves.

I liked my SV and I was never afraid to tell people what I rode, most people who were knowledgeable about bikes and werent "Life Style Weekend Sportsbike riders" would always give a knowing nod and would make postive comments about what a great bike those SV's are etc etc.

Its just that now I realise I was blind to what other and different biking experiences they are. I think alot of people are blind to it just like I was.

Jester666

02-08-07, 10:07 AM

Ok, so we all love our SVs :love: , else A: we wouldn’t own them and B: we probably wouldn’t have joined an SV forum to talk about them all the time!! ;) So that fact is a good as read really.

However, how come I read so many threads with people saying “SVs are better than IL4s as they have torque” … and “ok so, an SV can’t keep with a sports IL4 on the straight, but get them to the twisties and learn them” … and all that BS … do you really think an SV handles better than an IL4? And why do we need this perpetual self affirmation?

Is it plain and simple an inferiority complex??

So what if an SV gets out dragged and out handled by an IL4? Is that such a big problem? I didn't buy my SV to travel at light speed or drag my knee everywhere. I bought it because it's fun to ride.

I certainly don't have an inferiority complex! Why would I?
A bike is a bike is a bike! Unless its a Harley! ;)

No matter what you drive/ride, if you get a group of similar minded people together they will all say "My 'X' is better that that 'Y'!" Its just basic human nature.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

stuartyboy

02-08-07, 10:18 AM

do you really think an SV handles better than an IL4?

:confused: Does an SV handle better than a IL4?

If you were to ask does it handle better than a zx6r,cbr,r6,gsxr6? Not a ****ing chance.

Does an SV handle better than a blandit, fazer etc - no ideas - never owned one.

Blue_SV650S

02-08-07, 10:28 AM

....

Indeed ...

I love my SV(s) and after understanding their requirements (to make sure I feel they match what the SV has to offer) I would recommend to anyone, they are great little bikes but you do have to live with certain aspects.

FACT: is it isn’t the ‘best bike’ in the world, it WON’T beet a sports bike even on the twisties (with your eyes shut or open :D), anyone that has ever actually ridden a modern sports bike will KNOW this and not spout that sort of carp!! ;) The handling of a sports bike is a world apart from the SV, it is actually astonishing the difference!!! That is not to say an SV can’t be ridden hard! ;)

However, I am not saying that the SV is rubbish (remember I love mine and chose it for what it promised to be!!) … depending on your needs/circumstance, it does tick quite a few boxes a sports bike doesn’t … so in this respect it is ‘better’ … but that is the only way ...

Blue_SV650S

02-08-07, 10:31 AM

:confused: Does an SV handle better than a IL4?

If you were to ask does it handle better than a zx6r,cbr,r6,gsxr6? Not a ****ing chance.

Does an SV handle better than a blandit, fazer etc - no ideas - never owned one.

So why do so many people say 'just wait untill you get to the twisties' .. ?!!?? ;)

stuartyboy

02-08-07, 11:06 AM

So why do so many people say 'just wait untill you get to the twisties' .. ?!!?? ;)

just wait until the twisties then what? You've confused me here. You saying that an SV will 'out twisty' a 600rr, R6 etc? :confused:

northwind

02-08-07, 11:31 AM

So why do so many people say 'just wait untill you get to the twisties' .. ?!!?? ;)

I think this goes back to the rider skill thing. Any monkey can go fast in a straight line on a race rep, so skill differences don't make that much difference here. But once you get into corners, the rider skill becoems much more important. Nothing to do with the SV really, but that's the only place a well ridden SV will really beat a badly ridden race rep so I suppose one thing leads to another.

gettin2dizzy

02-08-07, 12:27 PM

Alot of the threads / posts I read I really think that the people posting havent had any experience of a IL4 sports bike and as Ben says they just believe what other people say without finding out for themselves.

Like when people Claim that il4s have no torque. That's a myth! when you've got 120hp at 13000rpm then 5000rpm will feel weedy in comparison. The reason an SV is so quick of the line is that it has just enough power to get in to trouble, so launching off is pretty safe, but very quick. Try the same technique on a ss600 and the back end quickly overtakes the front! so you have to be more cautious.

Don't get me wrong- I love the SV, it's got more power than you would ever need, and easily enough to hustle most things on the road. It handles as well as anything could for £4k and makes a great bark in the process. But the ss600s are beserk when they get going!

Blue_SV650S

02-08-07, 12:29 PM

just wait until the twisties then what? You've confused me here. You saying that an SV will 'out twisty' a 600rr, R6 etc? :confused:

No I would never say that* ;)

*For I know it is to be as the Northy one hath speak in his post! :)

Blue_SV650S

02-08-07, 12:34 PM

Like when people Claim that il4s have no torque.

I have many a time asked someone to produce a dyno to back this claim up ... but one has never been produced ;)

As you correctly highlight, something that has 60+hp over the SV at top, probably still has about the same if not more than an SV at the bottom too ;)

Somone please show me a dyno from an SV650 and say a 07 R6 so we can sort this out once and for all 8)

philbut

02-08-07, 01:07 PM

I reckon that quite a few bods on here would secretly like a ss600 if it weren't for the extra cost (myself included - still love the SV don't get me wrong). maybe all the IL4 banter is simply to make ourselves feel better about the little suzi. i fully intend to get a Ninja at some point, but the SV fits really well into that "sports(ish) bike for commuter money" bracket so well. Who cares if its not as good, it's still a crackin bike to have fun on, and it wont break the bank if i ever have the misfortune of sending it down the road (note to self: buy crash mushrooms).

P.S. dyno charts for a good selection of bikes here to compare. no SV though. http://www.roadandtrack.co.uk/charts.html

gettin2dizzy

02-08-07, 01:09 PM

P.S. dyno charts for a good selection of bikes here to compare. no SV though. http://www.roadandtrack.co.uk/charts.html

I hear the torque of the SV broke the dyno...

kwak zzr

02-08-07, 03:13 PM

I think this goes back to the rider skill thing. Any monkey can go fast in a straight line on a race rep, so skill differences don't make that much difference here. But once you get into corners, the rider skill becoems much more important. Nothing to do with the SV really, but that's the only place a well ridden SV will really beat a badly ridden race rep so I suppose one thing leads to another.

this is the best description of my thoughts on the subject, straight line speed bores the tits off me:rolleyes: but in the twistys the sv has more of a chance where rider ability does count and its not just letting the bhp loose. one of our riding buddys has an 04 R1, in the straights its ruddy quick but on the twistys his ability to ride the R1 isnt the same as mine:D i'm gone. this is where the lill 4k budget 650 it right at home and with the right rider can stand it ground.

Blue_SV650S

02-08-07, 04:05 PM

this is the best description of my thoughts on the subject, straight line speed bores the tits off me:rolleyes: but in the twistys the sv has more of a chance where rider ability does count and its not just letting the bhp loose. one of our riding buddys has an 04 R1, in the straights its ruddy quick but on the twistys his ability to ride the R1 isnt the same as mine:D i'm gone. this is where the lill 4k budget 650 it right at home and with the right rider can stand it ground.

It is also where the SV IS better than an R1, not becasue it handles better, but because it is so much LESS daunting to ride ... it makes riding it fater easyer ...

Point of fact …

To judge the braking point and amount of speed you need to scrub off going at 160mph is much harder than at 100mph … judging how much you can twist the tube on the corner exit is so much easier on a 60hp bike than a 160hp bike!! ;)

For these reasons alone is why even equal riders* will probably be faster on an SV than an R1 …

*Presuming ability level is equal, but fairly low/normal

northwind

02-08-07, 04:14 PM

Blue_SV650S

02-08-07, 05:45 PM

Ooh, I dunno. Disagree with the corner entry part since they can always ride the R1 at SV speeds if they want, and still have the better brakes and suspension on their side... Nothing makes you ride an R1 faster than an SV after all.

Well there is that ... but do you see my point about the R1 demanding more respect and therefore less skillful people are probably going to be more wary of an R1 than an SV? By the same note, they might over-compensate and actually ride slower than if they were on an SV??? #-o

fizzwheel

02-08-07, 05:55 PM

To judge the braking point and amount of speed you need to scrub off going at 160mph is much harder than at 100mph … judging how much you can twist the tube on the corner exit is so much easier on a 60hp bike than a 160hp bike!!

This is why I like having a bigger bike though, I like the extra challenge that doing all that on a bike with twice the BHP that the SV has, its harder to ride, but going at a brisk pace is much much much more involving...

I'm convinced over the same section of road, I'm quicker on my GSXR than I would be on my SV and I'd say I'm an average rider.

I reckon Liz is in some ways a better rider than me, when we are on our SV's on the same bit of road we know well I can't pull away from her and vice versa.

However we both noticed that once I got used to the GSXR, she had no hope in hell of keeping up with me over the same section of road. ( her words not mine )

northwind

02-08-07, 06:03 PM

Well there is that ... but do you see my point about the R1 demanding more respect and therefore less skillful people are probably going to be more wary of an R1 than an SV? By the same note, they might over-compensate and actually ride slower than if they were on an SV??? #-o

Oh aye, I totally agree with that. People who're scared of their bikes are pretty common I reckon... But then, that's obviously rider not bike.

Blue_SV650S

02-08-07, 06:15 PM

This is why I like having a bigger bike though, I like the extra challenge that doing all that on a bike with twice the BHP that the SV has, its harder to ride, but going at a brisk pace is much much much more involving...

I'm convinced over the same section of road, I'm quicker on my GSXR than I would be on my SV and I'd say I'm an average rider.

I reckon Liz is in some ways a better rider than me, when we are on our SV's on the same bit of road we know well I can't pull away from her and vice versa.

However we both noticed that once I got used to the GSXR, she had no hope in hell of keeping up with me over the same section of road. ( her words not mine )

'Tameing' a sportsbike is indeed a different challenge to trying to make an SV go fast!! :D And rewarding in its own ways, frustrating in others ;)

You are obviously above the skill threshold where one is so intimidated by the 'better' bike they go slower ...

Oh aye, I totally agree with that. People who're scared of their bikes are pretty common I reckon... But then, that's obviously rider not bike.

Yep, but point is that under some circumstances a 'same-skill' rider might well be slower when straddling a 1000cc monster!! ;) Its just something to think about ... its not a given that same-skill riders will always be faster on a 'better' bike ...

rigor

02-08-07, 06:21 PM

Reminds me of an article I read in a biking magazine a while ago. They took riders of different abilities, brand new rider (Just passed test) fairly experience rider, and superstar rider and put them on the lastest bikes out. From memory er6, gsx-r 1000, and triumph rocket. Interestingly enough the new rider said he prefered the gixxer, due to the fact that the bike felt the most capable and would keep him out of trouble. IIRC the middle rider didn't like the gixer, he felt it was too much bike ....

meh, people should ride what they like :D

fizzwheel

02-08-07, 06:47 PM

You are obviously above the skill threshold where one is so intimidated by the 'better' bike they go slower ...

Oh I dont know about that... I've just never felt it intimidating, I've never felt any bike intimidating, when I felt I was going to fast, I just rolled the throttle off again till I was back at a speed I felt more comfortable with..

the white rabbit

02-08-07, 07:12 PM

All of these philosophical posts, I can't help thinking Blue is a right 'arristotle of the forum.

jonboy99

02-08-07, 08:28 PM

People on here are obsessed with comparing the SV with a 'SS600'! (does anyone else apart from on here call a sports 600 that??)

I bought my SV because it's fun to ride, full of character, and was cheap as chips. I love the engine - it's got plenty of power to be fun, but doesn't have too much - I can actually rag it on the road, through the gears without risking never being able to pick up the soap in the showers again. Sure, some bits (ie suspension) are dreadful, but they'll be upgraded.
I've owned 3 sports 600s, a gixer thou and a tuono amongst others, and the SV is the most fun to ride out of all of them. It suits me, and I suit it. SVs rock! :smt035

kwak zzr

02-08-07, 08:45 PM

I've owned 3 sports 600s, a gixer thou and a tuono amongst others, and the SV is the most fun to ride out of all of them. It suits me, and I suit it. SVs rock! :smt035

top quote jonboy99:cool:

kwak zzr

02-08-07, 08:50 PM

It is also where the SV IS better than an R1, not becasue it handles better, but because it is so much LESS daunting to ride ... it makes riding it fater easyer ...

Point of fact …

To judge the braking point and amount of speed you need to scrub off going at 160mph is much harder than at 100mph … judging how much you can twist the tube on the corner exit is so much easier on a 60hp bike than a 160hp bike!! ;)

For these reasons alone is why even equal riders* will probably be faster on an SV than an R1 …

*Presuming ability level is equal, but fairly low/normal

yea our friend on the R1 is having kittens in the twistys:D perhaps he's got a bike thats too powerful for him? his bike before this was a zx636r and before that a fazer6? i too in a certain extent are like this with my thou, altho i can rag it on b roads, its alot more hastle than a 650 to have fun on, and the mpg is just terrible.