Riding/Rolling In Neutral?

[viva_unix]

Hello!
I have a car with manual transmission and I noticed it is very convinient to use Neutral on some roads. For example on the road to my house I can roll for about 5+ continues kilometers on N (I do not shut down the engine, just put to N).
Question:
Hot to do it with motorcycle? Should I just use the clutch or switch to N? Is it ok to roll up to a stop light by using the clutch (small distance for about 100-200 meters)? Maybe a stupied questions, but I always afraid that clutch line can be broken some day... :)
Thank you!

[Nostrils]

Why would you want to roll along in neutral, as I understand it your gearbox will not last keep doing that. Also you will not be fully in control of the car especially if you have to break or speed up suddenly in selecting the correct gear, each to their own I suppose.

[Alpinestarhero]

I somtimes snick it into neutral when coming up to lights that have just turned red, and that i know stay red for ages.

otherwise, i wait till the bike is at standstill

I dont know how good/bad it is for the bike though...

Matt

[RhythmJunkie]

Its a funny one this. If you try to get the bike into neutral while still doing a fair speed the shafts in the gearbox won't be at all happy. You get the same effect if you select down too many gears too quickly when slowing for the lights for instance. On the GSX if I go from 6th to 3rd while coasting from say 50mph it sounds like the gearbox is going to drop out of the bike, it almost bangs into gear and thats with the clutch in. I can't remember the details but the shafts with all the cogs in the gearbox are rotating at different speeds and you are ok with synchromesh selecting once or twice but if you keep going then the difference in rotational speed between the two shafts gets too great and they slam together instead of meshing smoothly.

To cut a long story short just pull your clutch in....thats what I used to do down long gradients on a CBR1000 to save on fuel.

[Alpinestarhero]

I thought it was bad. I guess its ok at 10mph or less though, when i sometimes go through 3 gears from 4th to first, for example.

downhills i just stick it in a high gear (6th) and let it roll down :D engine braking dosnt hold me back too much

Matt

[RhythmJunkie]

Only thing that would be negative would be letting the clutch back in too quickly, same effect as a good dollop of brakes. Excessive clutch wear if you kept doing it but if you blip the throttle to speed the engine up as you let in the clutch then its not a problem.

It pains me to watch youtube videos of riders who don't blip the throttle when changing down, they must get through a new clutch every year and a new rear tyre every 3k's! :)

[Alpinestarhero]

Only thing that would be negative would be letting the clutch back in too quickly, same effect as a good dollop of brakes. Excessive clutch wear if you kept doing it but if you blip the throttle to speed the engine up as you let in the clutch then its not a problem.

It pains me to watch youtube videos of riders who don't blip the throttle when changing down, they must get through a new clutch every year and a new rear tyre every 3k's! :)

Ooo i hate it too, i either feed the clutch back out slowly, or give a good blip - its quite important on the SV and other bikes with no slipper clutch I think, makes everything more stable

Matt

[Essex of Essex]

Highway Code 102

Coasting. The term describes a vehicle traveling in neutral or with the clutch pressed down. Do not coast,whatever the driving conditions. It reduces driver control because

engine brakeing is eliminated
vehicle speed downhillwill increase quickly
increased use of the footbrake can reduce its effectiveness
steering response will be affected particularly o bends and corners
it may be more difficult to select the appropriate gearwhen needed

This is in a section of the code applicable to drivers and riders.

[injury_ian]

You also use up more fuel, any modern (post 94) engine will use fuel costing where as in gear it will use zip, nil. (fuel injection only)
you also loose all points above (essex of essex)

[Stu]

Hello!
I have a car with manual transmission and I noticed it is very convinient to use Neutral on some roads. For example on the road to my house I can roll for about 5+ continues kilometers on N (I do not shut down the engine, just put to N).
Question:
Hot to do it with motorcycle? Should I just use the clutch or switch to N? Is it ok to roll up to a stop light by using the clutch (small distance for about 100-200 meters)? Maybe a stupied questions, but I always afraid that clutch line can be broken some day... :)
Thank you!
I do it in the car like you.
I don't agree with the post above that it uses more fuel. If I coast for a mile down the road without losing speed (slight downhill) compared with engine breaking meaning I have to accelerate again.
Anyway, I would not do it on the bike as you could fall off! yes you lose centrifugal forces of the engine keeping you upright.
Did your instructor not tell you to keep the revs up on the U turn? Did he not explain properley why? It's not worth saving a bit of fuel & falling off.
But if you still want to do it, pull the clutch in don't try & find Neutral then try & find 6th gear again when you're ready to accelerate. It is not a car gearbox where you can just choose any gear you want in one movement.
The only time I might say oK would be pulling up to a stop in second & just put it into Neutral instead of first then neutral. But that not even what I do.

[viva_unix]

Thank you for reply.
OK, first of all I do not do it on Highway. This is 35 miles in hour speed zone and downhill. So, why do not save some fuel (5+ kilometer). The road without trafic lights, stop signs and turns. Perfect! :)

Questions:
How do you ride? Are you always on gear? I agree it is correct, but sometimes... well... I just interesting how to do it "incorrectly" correct?

to Stu:
/*
The only time I might say oK would be pulling up to a stop in second & just put it into Neutral instead of first then neutral. But that not even what I do.
*/
How do you do? What you do in this case?

to RhythmJunkie:
/*
To cut a long story short just pull your clutch in....thats what I used to do down long gradients on a CBR1000 to save on fuel.
*/
Is it ok with clutch when you do like that?

/*
Excessive clutch wear if you kept doing it but if you blip the throttle to speed the engine up as you let in the clutch then its not a problem
*/
Do you mean turn a trotle to match the speed between two shafts? Why only downshift? As far as I remember it is bad for upshift too... Correct?

Thank you!

[skint]

Some of the older geezers here may recall a govt advertising campaign when there was a fuel crisis,(late 70's?) which encouraged coasting and straightening of bends (when you had clear vision to do so) I do it quite often on downhills, put the car in neutral and let the clutch back out. Saves loads of fuel. :D Completely harmless if you keep your mind on the job in hand. Younger folk may not have been brought up on this so it may seem bizarre.;)
Not sure about bikes though. They have a different type of gearshift of one step change in line, unlike a car where you can instantly select any gear. Wouldn't want to ride it on the clutch personally - don't know why, just doesn't seem right, maybe because I don't ride with the same mentally as I do in the car i.e. I don't think about economy at all - just the fun:twisted: it would also be more difficult to slip it back into an appropriate gear when you need to deliver the power again.

[kwak zzr]

Hello!
I have a car with manual transmission and I noticed it is very convinient to use Neutral on some roads. For example on the road to my house I can roll for about 5+ continues kilometers on N (I do not shut down the engine, just put to N).
Question:
Hot to do it with motorcycle? Should I just use the clutch or switch to N? Is it ok to roll up to a stop light by using the clutch (small distance for about 100-200 meters)? Maybe a stupied questions, but I always afraid that clutch line can be broken some day... :)
Thank you!

i do just this in the car but never on the bike, my fuel computer goes to 199mpg when moving along on 900rpm:)

[Stu]

to Stu:
/*
The only time I might say oK would be pulling up to a stop in second & just put it into Neutral instead of first then neutral. But that not even what I do.
*/
How do you do? What you do in this case?
!
When you know you are in 2nd just give it a half tap down & you'll see the green neutral light come on
This is 35 miles in hour speed zone and downhillI would just put it in 6th in this situation the engine will not labour if you don't have a wide throttle opening & it won't be using hardly any petrol either.
It's just not any sense to change down from 6th to neutral Y& then back up to 6th again before you let the clutch out you will b***** your clutch & gearbox, probably fall off & for what, a sniff of petrol?

[andy]

There is nothing wrong with coasting in neutral on a bike per se (except the danger of a pause to get back on the throttle if a situation arises), but getting into neutral at anything over 50mph or so is a big no no, the difference in rpms between the input and output shafts will be too high, hence the horrible clunks you get when you try and do it.....

Coasting with the clutch in is bad on the clutch plates and release bearings so you cant do that either.

Just stick it in 6th and give either zero or a tiny bit of throttle to keep the speed constant, not worth doing anything else really.

You could slow down to say 30mph, stick it in second, accelerate to the redline in 2nd (about 70?) and then snick to neutral, but hope to god you dont overshift and hit 1st !!!!!!

[SVeeedy Gonzales]

I have a bad habit of sticking it into neutral and letting it roll the last foot or two before putting my foot down at lights, etc. Not recommended - it's hassle to do the hendon shuffle to get it into neutral once you've stopped, but try stopping a bike in neutral from falling over if something goes wrong at low speed. If it's in gear at least you can give it a little gas and pull it upright again. Nearly been caught out by that. Also if you do it, check your mirrors first - if someone is coming up too fast from behind as you stop and you're in neutral you're stuffed. If it's in gear you have at least a small chance of geting out of the way.

[haggis]

...yes you lose centrifugal forces of the engine keeping you upright.



Good grief man! Its the centrifugal forces of the wheels that keep you upright!!!!!


Coasting in neutral is most likely gonna end in tears sooner or later, in car and bike. End of.

[Sid Squid]

as I understand it your gearbox will not last keep doing that.

Why?

I dont know how good/bad it is for the bike though...

Not a problem.

...you are ok with synchromesh selecting once or twice ...

Motorcycle gearboxes are all constant mesh - not synchromesh.

[Captain Nemo]

the rotational energy in the engine keeps the bike upright too, thats why when you learn they encourage you to rev slightly high to help keep the bike stable at low speed.

IMHO coasting on a bike is a dangerous thing to be doing, by not having the rear wheel driving it causes all kinds of stability and stesring issues, try riding in neutral round a bend...........it wants to go straight on a major part of cornering on a bike is that youre better off with a constant force on the rear to "push" you round...............

i think if bikes were able to drive safely in neutral the big manufacturars would have figured out a safe way to cut fuel when your not on the throttle, and dissengage the gearbox........ what would that give 10-25% better fuel economy?? maybe , but deffinately at the expense of stability......................................... ........

[RhythmJunkie]

Motorcycle gearboxes are all constant mesh - not synchromesh

That explains a lot of clonking! :)

That would also explain why a car can be rammed into 2nd gear at 40mph without sounding like its gonna blow captain!

[DoubleD]

i do just this in the car but never on the bike, my fuel computer goes to 199mpg when moving along on 900rpm:)

Try leaving the car in gear on the same hill and the fuel computer might give you a better reading as most modern fuel injectors shut off when fuel is not needed but if you are idling (ie in neutral at 900rpm) you are in fact using fuel.

I get 999mpg when going down hill in the car in gear but foot off the accelerator :D


I never coast along in the car or bike, IMO I feel I have more control with them in gear.

[simonthepost]

In the 'ADVANCED MOTORCYCLE CONTROL' Manual it says on page 31 and i quote:

Using Neutral
select Netrual only when virtually at a standstill. Always do it when at rest for any appreciable time, to avoid wearing out the clutch components and actuating mechanism by running the engine with first gear engaged while waiting to move off again. Inexperianced motorcyclists tend to hold the clutch lever in the withdrawn position for long periods while waiting to move off.Some riders develop the bad habit of selecting neutral some time before they stop, perhaps when approaching traffic lights or a junction, and coasting over the final distance.

[RhythmJunkie]

With the engine in gear, especially with an SV you are slowing due to engine braking. With the clutch in you are effectively using 'some' fuel, but very little considering you are perhaps doing 50mph yet using the same fuel as you do at tickover!

The only thing which worries me is the airflow cooling the front of the engine while the hot oil is not flowing at the full rate. So you end up with a tickover oil flow but speedy airflow cooling effect which would make certain engine parts extra cool and others extra hot with the heatsink effect of the slow pumping oil.
Make any sense?

How can you wear a clutch out by holding it in if its been adjusted properly? If the plates touched you would move forwards so what stresses does it have just sat spinning? Does it weaken the springs? I doubt it!

[chazzyb]

the rotational energy in the engine keeps the bike upright too, thats why when you learn they encourage you to rev slightly high to help keep the bike stable at low speed.


How's that work on a Beemer then?:p

[Alpinestarhero]

How's that work on a Beemer then?:p

In the boxer ones, if you hammer the throttle they (apparently) lean in the opposite direction of the crankshaft rotation :D

Good ol' physics

Matt

[chazzyb]

In the boxer ones, if you hammer the throttle they (apparently) lean in the opposite direction of the crankshaft rotation :D


Hammer? Just blip the throttle at a standstill and my old R100S rocks sideways; it's a weird feeling. Off/on throttle in a bend is interesting too, until you get used to it.;)

[RhythmJunkie]

Off/on throttle in a bend is interesting too, until you get used to it

Sideways engine braking?? No I just can't my head round that one!!

[chazzyb]

Sideways engine braking?? No I just can't my head round that one!!

I thought not.:p