I don't know? do you ? (NIP)

[rictus01]

Got asked a question today, which I don't know the answer to.

Someone (been asked not to reveal who) got a NIP they assure me there are no speed cameras there and wasn't a cop car to be seen.

after going back to the site all they can find is a CCTV camera (you know one of those ion the big blue poles), anyway it's very spesific as in 42 mph in a 30 mph zone, question
" can they use CCTV images to prove speeding in court ?",

"are they calibrated for road speeds?"

"should their be warning signs, as per speed camera guidelines ?"

the first two I'm not sure about, the last I think is only guidelines so they don't have to.

Just wondering if anyone has been done like this or knows for a fact they can, or are they just trying it on so you self incriminate ?

Cheers Mark.

[G]

www.pepipoo.com (http://www.pepipoo.com)

The forum there is awsome, and if theres a way out, they will know it.......

CCTV is not calibrated for speed, if your mate has the patience, time and money follow the words of the people on pepipoo

[gettin2dizzy]

I know that they can use those for average speed checks, which surprised me as I was always lead to believe they monitored traffic! However the amount of red tape the cameras need to get through to be allowed for use in prosecution is ridiculous nowadays ( woo! :)) I'd imagine there was just a hidden van.

[rigor]

I'd be surprised if the CCTV camera was calibrated. Are they sure it was a CCTV camera, not a Specs camera? Or one of the new small gatso's? Only other thing is to ask for the picture, should make it pretty clear where the camera was (an unmarked van down the road for example)

Where's the location? Maybe someone with local knowledge would know. (Obviously, if it would help identifiy the person, keep quiet ;) )

[rictus01]

don't know I'll ask.

[G]

http://forums.pepipoo.com/ direct link

[Biker Biggles]

Almost certainly a mobile van I would think.Those blue cameras are not speed cameras,although they can be used to show that a certain vehicle was there at a certain time,and track where it went.

[SoulKiss]

Got asked a question today, which I don't know the answer to.

Someone (been asked not to reveal who) got a NIP they assure me there are no speed cameras there and wasn't a cop car to be seen.

after going back to the site all they can find is a CCTV camera (you know one of those ion the big blue poles), anyway it's very spesific as in 42 mph in a 30 mph zone, question
" can they use CCTV images to prove speeding in court ?",

"are they calibrated for road speeds?"

"should their be warning signs, as per speed camera guidelines ?"

the first two I'm not sure about, the last I think is only guidelines so they don't have to.

Just wondering if anyone has been done like this or knows for a fact they can, or are they just trying it on so you self incriminate ?

Cheers Mark.

Requesting a copy of the pic will allow for identification of where the pic was taken.

Aparently they also have to be able to identify the piece of road FROM the pic to prosecute, but dont quote me on that one.

The Pepipoo website seems to be the place to go tho

[gettin2dizzy]

A lot of places aren't giving you access to the photo anymore. Completely illegal I know - but they're getting away with it now. one rule...

[Nostrils]

CCTV cameras in parts of Hillingdon are used on Bus Lanes as their main job in collecting monies from motorists within the times scales and then are used to keep an eye on a nearby crossroads looking for people jumping the lights.

Specific training and calibration is required to check the speed of a vehicle depending on what device is being used. CCTV cannot be calibrated for CCTV and Speed, so I would question your NIP, perhaps speak with White Dalton Solicitors for advise!!

Certainly ask for pictures (both/all) evidence of users training, certificate of calibration for starters

[G]

I think now days they only have to give you the photo to help identify the rider/driver, they dont have to give any other evidence until it gets to court.

[Ceri JC]

I think now days they only have to give you the photo to help identify the rider/driver, they dont have to give any other evidence until it gets to court.

They might claim this, to get you to stop hassling them for the evidence but it's a fundamental principle of our legal system that you are supposed to know what evidence they have on you so you can make a defence for it and as such, they are required to release the evidence to you or your solicitor upon request. There have been cases where the CPS have dropped prosecutions when people have insisted upon being given the evidence in this way. Quite possibly, because they didn't have any and wanted the suspect to incriminate themselves.

If you were refering to the act of them saying, "right, we'll take it to court then", rather than the day you actually turn up, sorry, I misunderstood you.

[scarlett]

I got a nip from a mobile scamera van......it was sandwiched between two transit type vans....but angled so that the rear window that contained the camera...was just jutting out. Derbyshire police reckon their scamera vans are highly visible with their distinct livery..............:rolleyes: but it certainly wasnt visible the day it nicked me.:smt013 .

The mobile scamera vans also use temporary speed camera signs...put them up whilst they are there, and when they move take them with them to the next location.

[Captain Nemo]

ive a fair bit of experience of this, from almost getting banned last year.............
firstly, the police do not need to put signs up for speed limit enforcement, they can enforce any limit at any time using any means they wish.

they arent supposed to hide, but the distance they need to be visible from isnt very far, cant remember exactly but its a good deal shorter then the required stopping sight distance for the speed limit. they do have to be clearly liveried if its a speed camera partneship, but the police can do it in unmarked if they wish, they dont they they want to be seen,,,,,

the guidlines issued to speed camera partnerships are just that , the partnerships are under no obligation to stick to them.

playing devils advocate, if the friend in question failed to see the indications of a 30mph zone then it would be reasonable to assume he may also fail to see the camera van, even marked up you dont always see them till its too late.............i know...................

if you are unsure as to the location of an nip you can ask for a photo to help identify the driver, they dont have to send you one just so that you know where it was, although the NIP should indicate a pretty accurate location.

The CPS have to provided you with all evidence they intend to present in court at least 14 days before your hearing. they wont give you anything until this stage, the camera partnerships may isue photos but some are charging £10-15 per photo for admin, as they arent obliged to give you them until 14 days before court.

if you want to see a photo, the best bet is to ask them to provide one to help you identify who was driving, S172 of the highways act burdens you with a duty to provide the name of the driver for a vehicle that you have responsibility for ( not the same as registered keeper), if they can they have to help you satisfy this requirement...........if you dont tell them whos driving they get you under S172 which incidentally carried the same penalty points and fine as the intial alledged speeding offence.

also dont even think about lying, inventing a friend from Bulgaria who borrowed your car and then went home is a bad move...........people have gone to prison for this, very few if any people go to prison for 42mph, unless its riding through a nunnery,naked on crack with a goat tied to your back..................

Pepipoo is the place to go, but have a look at the FAQ bit, as they get a lot of posts and they dont suffer fools , so its best to have a look at the NIP Wizard part of the site, put your details in there and it tells you what youre options are.

you dont have to pay either, only if you want to become a member, poss a good idea if youre gonna take things as far as court, i didnt though and still found the advice invaluable,

hope this helps

[MiniMatt]

few if any people go to prison for 42mph, unless its riding through a nunnery,naked on crack with a goat tied to your back

Gee thanks mate, I was trying to keep that one out of the papers :rolleyes:

[kwak zzr]

which surprised me as I was always lead to believe they monitored traffic!

oh god:smt103 they can measure speed?:smt005 now i'm worried, well i will be for the next few weeks;)

[RhythmJunkie]

They monitor traffic flow!
Since when did monitoring traffic 'not' include the checking of vehicle speed?
I have always had my doubts about those buggers, they seem so innocuous.

I was heading up a bypass the other day pulling away from lights, watching numpties in both lanes after almost being squashed 5 minutes earlier. Check mirrors, check speed, oops 34 throttle off before ..... too late there's a bleedin camera van on the central res' looking my way.....when are they going to realise that watching where I'm going, looking out for pot-holes and keeping an eye on idiot lane swappers doesn't leave a great deal of time for constantly watching my speed?! 8-[
There's a big difference to me accidentally creeping over the limit while trying to stay under it and some spotty chav hurtling down the road at 50 in a 30 limit! Jeeeez I hate this stupid country and its idiotic rules!

Hopefully I won't get nipped!

Tell you what though.....as with most harmful things.....avoidance is the best course of action! Is radar detection possible on a motybike?

There must be a lot of illegal vehics on the roads cos when I'm doing the 50mph M1 contra-specs route south of the M18 I seem to be the only plonker daft enough to be keeping to the limit, everyone else is doing 60+ how do they get away with it? :roll:

[SVeeedy Gonzales]

" can they use CCTV images to prove speeding in court ?",
"are they calibrated for road speeds?"

No, they aren't type-approved for that sort of thing and the evidence wouldn't stand up. I'm not even sure they can read speeds, it would only be objective opinion to decide the speed. Also they're controlled by the highways agency and they don't tie-up with the police/camera partnerships over speed. Even accidents don't tie the two up unless there's someone killed, etc.

"should their be warning signs, as per speed camera guidelines?"

People have got out of it when there were no warning signs (they are there for safety so they ought to make you aware of the speed)

Also there must be official circular signs with the speed limit, posted regularly, otherwise again there's a loop hole where you can claim that there was insufficient notice of the speed.

Ask to see the evidence - more likely it was someone with a laser speed gun hiding out of view. They'll know when they see the evidence as to where it was (and what the device used was. Can't imagine how they could claim the speed used unless they had proper measuring equipment.

I've heard of people getting NIPs on the basis of other road users making complaints about speed or reckless driving - they don't stand up in court as the person making the allegation has no court-sanctioned trust/reliability to be telling the truth, like a copper would. They'll still send the begging letter though.

[timwilky]

i
also dont even think about lying, inventing a friend from Bulgaria who borrowed your car and then went home is a bad move...........people have gone to prison for this, very few if any people go to prison for 42mph, unless its riding through a nunnery,naked on crack with a goat tied to your back..................


But Captain, My friend Himesh, tells me about the time he was injured as a result of glass fragments in his eyes and unable to see until the bandages were removed.
His cousin came out from India to look after him. The guy borrowed Himesh's other car for a night out. Then one day the door bell rang and all alone Himesh felt his way down the walls to the door, to find mr plod wanting to discuss kerb crawling. Plod accepted he could not be the driver as :-

1) he still had bandages over his eyes
2) cousin turned up in the car whilst plod was on the door step.


Cousin did have a valid international licence, but as he did not speak English it was easier for all concerned to forget everything. Apart from Himesh, who milked his cousins transcretions.

[Giffer2]

On the NIP, what does it say that caught your friend?

eg Static Camera, Mobile Camera etc etc