Advice please, Problems with my landlord

[gettin2dizzy]

With all you legal eagles on here I thought I'd pose a question I'm amazed has not come up before! (yes i dredged the search...:study:)

I've been trying to get a deposit back from my last house I rented with 3 other people. They're charging us £112.50 per house mate for 'repairs'. That's £450 for a tiny house! We lived there for 10 months and nothing was damaged, the house was immaculate when we left, and we even painted all the walls the week before we left. Obviously the problem lies with the fact that they have our money, and aren't as keen to go in to debate about this as we are. Does the burden of proof lie on them or myself to prove what was or wasn't damaged?
Thankyou!

[Ed]

I think someone - your ex-landlord - is taking the pi55. It's up to them to prove the damage.

Sounds to me like you need to sue them. PM me and I'll tell you how. Faced with a Claim Form, you might well find that they back down.

[the_lone_wolf]

I've been trying to get a deposit back
there's your problem, didn't you realise it's not a refundable thing? it's actually a little bonus for the landlord so he can bend you over a park bench and pork you one last time during your time dealing with him...

or perhaps i'm just a little disillusioned with the whole rented property thing :rolleyes:

[DoubleD]

there's your problem, didn't you realise it's not a refundable thing? it's actually a little bonus for the landlord so he can bend you over a park bench and pork you one last time during your time dealing with him...

or perhaps i'm just a little disillusioned with the whole rented property thing :rolleyes:

My brother would agree with you on that one!

[Ed]

there's your problem, didn't you realise it's not a refundable thing? it's actually a little bonus for the landlord so he can bend you over a park bench and pork you one last time during your time dealing with him...

or perhaps i'm just a little disillusioned with the whole rented property thing :rolleyes:

Then sue the buggers. It's very easy, just a few forms to fill in down the County Court office, pay a fee (which you get back if you win) which varies according to the amount you're claiming, and the Court will issue and serve the forms. You don't need legal training to do it and you don't need to use flowery language, just something like 'I claim the return of the deposit I paid on property I rented from the Defendant as he has kept it without good reason and refuses to explain why he won't give it back'.

No guarantee of success but so often they will cave in just on receiving a Claim Form as few want the hassle of litigation.

[the_lone_wolf]

Then sue the buggers. It's very easy, just a few forms to fill in down the County Court office, pay a fee (which you get back if you win) which varies according to the amount you're claiming, and the Court will issue and serve the forms. You don't need legal training to do it and you don't need to use flowery language, just something like 'I claim the return of the deposit I paid on property I rented from the Defendant as he has kept it without good reason and refuses to explain why he won't give it back'.

No guarantee of success but so often they will cave in just on receiving a Claim Form as few want the hassle of litigation.
it was several years ago now, and we did end up taking the guy to court and getting the money back, but the whole situation with the letting agency and landlord was a farce tbh. thankfully the landlord in the property i rented afterwards was superb, dealt directly with him, when we had a water leak he was there the morning we called (at ~7am) and never had an issue..

however as they say; once bitten, twice shy...

[MiniMatt]

As Ed says, just the merest sight of a claims form is normally enough. Landlords have a reputation for not quite understanding the phrase "normal wear and tear".

Remember that with new tenancies the deposit is held by a third party scheme to prevent exactly this sort of thing. Within 14 days of the new tenancy the landlord is required to give details of the scheme holding your deposit money.

EDIT: Slight sidetrack tenancy story. I moved down to Oxford from Nottingham about 8 years ago for a job at, of all things, a law firm. On sorting out a place to rent (having tried six months through winter commuting by VFR400) I looked at the tenancy agreement and thought it was a bit landlord heavy. So before signing I took advantage of my new job and took it to one of the property law solicitors. About a third of the way through reading it she took a deep breath and said "Oh.... I recognize this one...". My new employer had written my sodding tenancy agreement :D

[Steve_God]

Ask him for a report on exactly what the costs went towards, and copies of the invoices paid to contractors to carry out the work, with a note saying if he fails to do so then you will see him in court - and if he doesn't, follow what Ed said :)

[Warthog]

Thats an atrocious amount, a court letter will soon see your full deposit back.

[ASM-Forever]

Whilst i can't really comment on your situation, the houses my parents let have a £1000 deposit and the tenants rarely see any of that back! It all goes on getting contractors to repair any damage/clean the house and all fittings/tidy the garden etc. One of the last lots also left a driveway full of junk that took 3 skips as well!

In my parents contracts it indicates the property has to be in the condition that it was handed over(or something along those lines)

I know you said that you redecorated yourself...but what sort of standard was the work and was it to original spec?

In reality £450 is not that much as even the smallest jobs add up if you pay a pro to do them.

Alternatively if you have left the house in a sound state...then sue the ******* :)

[gettin2dizzy]

I'm waiting for an itemised bill! that's what I always ask for. ASM I can see what you mean about money needing to be spent to get the place in saleable condition again. We left the place looking almost to that standard - certainly better than 'wear and tear' covers. However the expenses to repair little jobs are paid for in the £12000 rent they aquired this year, hence paying a premium for a short term lease.

Thanks for all the help - I think I will go down the court route. Better to learn how to do it now than waste loads of money in the next few years in similar situations!

[SoulKiss]

Whilst i can't really comment on your situation, the houses my parents let have a £1000 deposit and the tenants rarely see any of that back! It all goes on getting contractors to repair any damage/clean the house and all fittings/tidy the garden etc. One of the last lots also left a driveway full of junk that took 3 skips as well!

In my parents contracts it indicates the property has to be in the condition that it was handed over(or something along those lines)

I know you said that you redecorated yourself...but what sort of standard was the work and was it to original spec?

In reality £450 is not that much as even the smallest jobs add up if you pay a pro to do them.

Alternatively if you have left the house in a sound state...then sue the ******* :)

B*ll*cks.

Its the landlords responsibility for upkeep and routine maintainence.

If a long term let, why should I have to replace a carpet that has worn through normal usage in say a hallway or staircase.

As said earlier,

As a tennant, its not my responsibility to paint walls or the like, thats the landlords job, and is part of what I pay my rent for.

Your parents are, in my opinion just fleecing an extra months rent off of the ir tennants when they leave, assuming that the "deposit" is equal to a months rent.

The fact that this is a systematic, matter of routine backs this up.

The deposit is only supposed to cover the landlord in the even of SERIOUS damage, or the tennant skipping out with rent arrears.

[Iansv]

Good luck with it all, Most give the money back when they realise it'll go to court..

Just waiting to see what grief I get when I move from my current place, been there over 5 years now so i'd consider any work needs doing as wear and tear.. esp considering how much money i've paid out over the time

[MiniMatt]

Have to say I'm with Soulkiss on this one. The house will not be and can not be expected to be in the same state as at the commencement of the tenancy because of fair wear and tear.

Ok, example. Exterior wood work painting. How long does it last typically before needing to be redone? Four years? (plucking figures out the air here). Therefore, at the end of a two year tenancy the exterior paintwork is expected to be 50% distressed. The landlord cannot claim deposit money back to put the paintwork back to 100%. They can only claim whatever is needed to put it back to 50% if it was found to be below 50%. The landlord foots the bill for the bit between 50% and 100%

[SoulKiss]

Have to say I'm with Soulkiss on this one. The house will not be and can not be expected to be in the same state as at the commencement of the tenancy because of fair wear and tear.

Ok, example. Exterior wood work painting. How long does it last typically before needing to be redone? Four years? (plucking figures out the air here). Therefore, at the end of a two year tenancy the exterior paintwork is expected to be 50% distressed. The landlord cannot claim deposit money back to put the paintwork back to 100%. They can only claim whatever is needed to put it back to 50% if it was found to be below 50%. The landlord foots the bill for the bit between 50% and 100%

And I would disagree with you there Matt.

Landlord cannot, in my opinion, charge me for normal wear and tear on HIS property. Its HIS windows and doors.

If the doors are battered and damaged by me kicking them or some such then yes, they can charge me for that, but if the paint is worn from the door opening and closing they can take a running jump.

If they have to replace something that is missing or broken, fair enough, but to repaint, or even replace something that is old - like a carpet or a fridge - then forget it.

[MiniMatt]

No you miss my point :D You do agree with me really :D The paint worn from the door open and closing *is* normal wear and tear and therefore the landlord can indeed go take a running jump. What I'm saying is that a certain amount of damage through wear and tear is expected and the landlord cannot charge you to make that better. However if damage is beyond normal wear and tear then the landlord still cannot charge you to make that 100%, they can only charge you the difference between what you left it in and what's "normal".

Better example (but slightly more bonkers) - imagine the landlord rented you a chair with four legs. Imagine it was accepted fact that chairs commonly lose a leg every year through normal usage. Imagine each chair leg costs £10. Imagine after a two year tenancy, the landlord finds his chair only has one remaining leg. Normal wear and tear would see two legs there, so he can charge you £10 to put one leg back on it, but he has to foot the bill for the other two legs. If you'd left it with two legs, that'd be normal wear and tear and the landlord couldn't charge you a thing.

So what I'm saying is (a) they can't charge you for normal wear and tear, and (b) if you leave stuff below the condition of normal wear and tear they can only charge you what it takes to bring it up to the standard expected under normal wear and tear - not what it takes to bring it up to brand new standard.

[tomjones2]

Say you will take the matter to small claims court, I'm no legal expert or anythings though. Have you got photos of the conditions you left the property in.

[Warthog]

So Soulkiss doesn't agree with MiniMatt, who does agree with SoulKiss, who.... :smt101

[ASM-Forever]

B*ll*cks.

Its the landlords responsibility for upkeep and routine maintainence.

If a long term let, why should I have to replace a carpet that has worn through normal usage in say a hallway or staircase.

As said earlier,

As a tennant, its not my responsibility to paint walls or the like, thats the landlords job, and is part of what I pay my rent for.

Your parents are, in my opinion just fleecing an extra months rent off of the ir tennants when they leave, assuming that the "deposit" is equal to a months rent.

The fact that this is a systematic, matter of routine backs this up.

The deposit is only supposed to cover the landlord in the even of SERIOUS damage, or the tennant skipping out with rent arrears.

I find it rather amusing that you purport to have any knowledge of my parents lettings. Everything is above board and done through a letting agent. Yes i am sure it allows for reasonable wear and tear, but in the same instance a house that is redecorated/spotless before every new tenant moves in should be returned in a decent condition.

The tenants are always responsible for upkeep of the garden and other menial tasks. Obviously any plumbing/ellctrical issues are dealt with by the pros.

I have personally seen the houses 'before' and 'after' and its fair to say people do not treat a house well, that they do not own.

Also i find it incredibly rude that you infer my parents are fleecing money from their tenants. A contract is agreed to by both parties and if they do not satisfy it, then there are consequences. Perhaps its might be better if you don't offset your obvious issues onto other people!

[SoulKiss]

I find it rather amusing that you purport to have any knowledge of my parents lettings. Everything is above board and done through a letting agent. Yes i am sure it allows for reasonable wear and tear, but in the same instance a house that is redecorated/spotless before every new tenant moves in should be returned in a decent condition.

The tenants are always responsible for upkeep of the garden and other menial tasks. Obviously any plumbing/ellctrical issues are dealt with by the pros.

I have personally seen the houses 'before' and 'after' and its fair to say people do not treat a house well, that they do not own.

Also i find it incredibly rude that you infer my parents are fleecing money from their tenants. A contract is agreed to by both parties and if they do not satisfy it, then there are consequences. Perhaps its might be better if you don't offset your obvious issues onto other people!

What "obvious" issues do I have?

I am taking this purely on merit of what you said and not making any assumtions.

You state that

"a £1000 deposit and the tenants rarely see any of that back!"

Which implies that the deposit is seen as part of the normal profit on a let.

Its is WRONG to expect a house that is let to come back exactly as it was let, and also WRONG to expect the tennant to pay for the restoration.

Yes, there are things in a contract that need to be followed, I have a clause in mine that says the windows should be kept clean for example, which if when I hand the house back I would make sure was the case.

In the case you quote, then I agree that the rubbish left on the driveway was unacceptable and removal should be at the expense of the previous tennant.

Also damage should be the responsibility of the tennant - so replacing broken furniture SHOULD come out if the deposit, similar with things like lamps etc, I am not argueing on that.

The only assumption I made was that G2D HAD left the place in a reasonable condition.

[Jelster]

In my experience, Landlords "look" for an excuse not to return some or all of a deposit. I have rented on a few occasions, and every time my wife & I have cleaned the house thoroughly and kept the garden tidy.

I have had a Landlord tell me that he will find something wrong !! On moving day for that particular house I followed him around with a video camera, making sure he couldn't damage anything !!

The same guy decided he would pay the house a visit while he knew we were on holiday !! The neighbours told us on our return. A quick phone call to the agency involved backed up by a very strongly worded letter put him right.

Some Landlords take the pi55, others are quite legitimate.

.

[Warthog]

I once got docked £7.15 out of a £200 deposit for "cleaning". I mean, who is going to argue that? it isn't enought to hire anyone or clean anything, and we had thoroughly cleaned the place anyway. They are just trying it on cos they know you won't fight it.

[ASM-Forever]

You state that

"a £1000 deposit and the tenants rarely see any of that back!"

Which implies that the deposit is seen as part of the normal profit on a let.


The letting agency hold the deposit and any reason for the amount not being returned in full or at all has to be justified with a list of the damage, then receipts and proof of work.

I think you will find that in reality you won't make any profit from keeping the deposit. It is used and often exceeded on paying for the property to be 'serviced'.

[Ed]

If you are a tenant then keep records - photos preferably - of how you leave the place. A picture is worth a thousand words...

And if you feel aggrieved then do something about it, a letter before action (ie if you don't return my money then I'll sue you) and if that doesn't work then a claim form. It doesn't cost much and the County Court is not intimidating. The staff are there to help, and in my experience they will help fill in the forms, explain the process etc. They won't give legal advice though.

[Pedro68]

I almost had a similar thing happen to me ... but thankfully was forewarned about letting agencies from the person I was sharing with. So when I vacated the property I made sure I cleaned it thoroughly, even down to touching up a few places on the walls where a small child had decided to "decorate with crayola" :rolleyes:

The letting agency said they were going to withhold my deposit because they claimed the place needed a professional cleaner to come in and give the place a good cleaning (including carpets being shampoo'd!?).

I wrote to them and told them that I had cleaned the place thoroughly (including shampooing the carpets - even though I hadn't - I'd just given them a really good hoovering!), and that I considered the place to be "as we took it", and that professional cleaning was OTT. I also mentioned that I had taken photos when we entered the place, and just before I left, and that any differences were negligible (down to wear and tear) and that if they persisted to withhold my deposit any longer than reasonable that I would take legal action to recover it. I accepted that the kitchen would require cleaning (I even offered to go back in and clean it myself!), and that if they insisted on having it professionally cleaned that surely it wouldn't take longer than AN HOUR for a "professional" cleaner to clean it, and so I wasn't expecting the bill to be beyond a reasonable amount for that sort of service.

My deposit was duly returned minus £10 (to pay a cleaner to clean the kitchen).

Not ideal, but better than losing hundreds.

My landlord was the nicest chap you could wish to meet though - he'd lived in the house for 20+ years, and was only renting it because it was too big for just him and his wife (family all grown up and moved away), but he loved the house, and even offered to come and mow the lawns for us! Plus, in spite of rising house prices he never once put the rent up in the 18 months we rented the place (probably much to the disgust of the letting agency! Hahaha!)

Anyway ... I digress ...

A strongly worded letter mentioning the threat of legal action should be all that it takes, and if not ... wot Ed sez ;-)

Pete

[Viney]

Hmm, good idea about taking photos. We move in on the 25th August into a 1 bed house. I know that the garden is a little to be diesired, but i know that Verna wants to talk to him, to see if he will fund some imporvements (Re-seeding the lawn, some plants, and a small patio area. Im more than happy to do the work if he pays.

Also, all this deposit stuff is why the new deposit scheme has been set up, so that it has an intermederay(sp?) for any issues that arise. But will take pictures, or even a DVD of the place the day we move in. We also meet an Inventory clerk on the day of move in, who lists all the things wrong, if any, with the property and all fixtures and fittings, signed by all of us before they give us the keys.

[Pedro68]

Viney, my landlord had painted almost the entire house in the "rental standard" of Magnolia ... then when we moved in, said to us, "Feel free to paint the place to your liking ... if I like it, I'll keep it, and if I don't, I'll just Magnolia-over-it after you've left" (he was a builder by trade, so I think he got a "job lot" of the paint on trade discount LOL) :)