Oh No! Speed Trap

[I'm_a_Newbie]

Hi All.

Travelling to work this morning eastbound along the A27 from Portchester to North Harbour I failed to see a Police speed trap, as I was distracted by a group of BT vans that were parked on the other side of the road. I should have spotted them as they stood out like a sore thumb.

As one of the two officers was pointing the laser gun at me I jabbed the brakes on and closed the throttle. On glancing down at the speedo I was doing 44 so I must have been doing up to about 50. The second officer may have clocked my reg as I passed.

A co-worked saw a biker get pulled over by them earlier so I am hoping I got away with it. They did not have a camera just a laser gun.

It turned out they also has a speed trap eastbound on the A27 approach to Portchester, 2 within 1.5 miles! Luckily I only join the A27 at Portchester so I only went through the 1.

Does the fact that they did not stop me mean I got away with it?

Tim

[SV Muppet]

Tim, because you weren't stopped doesn't mean that you won't receive a NIP (Notice of Intended Prosecution) through the post. However, if they were stopping other motorists but didn't stop you then there's a good chance that you'll be ok. The good thing about a bike is that they have to read your registration from the rear, so if you can see them in your mirrors or over your shoulder turning to look then they may have recorded your vrm. If they don't turn to look then you're of no interest to them. I drove past a laser check in Birmingham a couple of days ago at 45 in a 40mph limit, they didn't bat an eyelid as I was small fry considering the road that I was travelling on.

The handheld prolaser guns take a couple of seconds to record a speed so they may have clocked you at somewhere between 44 and 50mph. If this is a speedy section of road (I don't know the road) then they have to decide what threshold to prosecute at. If it's a 40mph limit, speedy section of road, they might set a threshold of 50mph, say, otherwise they'd be doing paperwork for months to catch up!

Watch out for the mobile camera partnership vans as you are not stopped for those, the evidence is recorded on video and you should receive the NIP within 14 days. Some partnerships operate at a threshold as low as 'speed limit + 10% + 2mph' (ACPO guidelines) i.e. 35 in a 30mph; 46 in a 40mph. etc. Parts of Wales were operating a zero policy for a while but I think that stopped due to the controversy.

On a positive note, bear in mind that your speedo almost certainly over-reads slightly, and sometimes up to 10%, so that adds to your safety margin.
Sorry that this doesn't help much.

[Bluepete]

That sounds like the voice of knowlege there SV Muppet! Welcome to the .org.

[SV Muppet]

Thanks Blue Pete; glad to be here.

[SV'dd]

Is it also harder for the laser to lock onto a bike, I have read they usually aim at car reg plates because they get a better reading from the reflective surface?

[Bluepete]

Very hard to do! It needs to reflect the "light" from the laser back to the device, so the number plate is the best target as it is naturally reflective. Bikes don't tend to have vertical, reflective surfaces!

[shelleyamy]

I've taken a couple of libities with the foward facing cameas around the Southampton lately.
Is there anyway they can at you with these?
Mike

[SV Muppet]

The forward facing cameras are generally 'Truvello' cameras. You don't know if one of these has snapped you as they use an invisible flash to avoid blinding motorists.

They obviously do not read the VRM of motorcycles since they only photograph the front but do be aware that these cameras can usually be rotated 180 degrees to face the rear so always take a look at the camera housing.

Also be aware that if you continually abuse one of these enforcement sites it will get noticed and steps will be taken to identify the bike and rider. The make and model of bike is usually fairly easy to identify as are any unique markings or distinctive clothing worn. If there are any ANPR (getting more and more common and an excellent crime-fighting tool), or CCTV, cameras along the same route then these can be used to obtain a VRM. Or if you commit the same offence at the same location and the same time every day you might one day find someone parked discretely in an unmarked vehicle to note your VRM as you pass by. It is then just a case of basic detective work and a visit to the riders address.

How much effort the police would put into this obviously depends on the seriousness of the offence. Anyone who behaves irresponsibly / dangerously deserves to feel the full weight of the law but they won't chase up every motorcyclist who is slightly over the threshold occassionally.

[shelleyamy]

The forward facing cameras are generally 'Truvello' cameras. You don't know if one of these has snapped you as they use an invisible flash to avoid blinding motorists.


How much effort the police would put into this obviously depends on the seriousness of the offence. Anyone who behaves irresponsibly / dangerously deserves to feel the full weight of the law but they won't chase up every motorcyclist who is slightly over the threshold occassionally.

Only about 10 mph over the top, a couple of times,no pattern to when, should be ok then.
Mike

[laMon]

just out of interest, what's the speed limit on that particular A road?
is it restricted to 40?

[Blue_SV650S]

just out of interest, what's the speed limit on that particular A road?
is it restricted to 40?

As it happens I know the stretch well (do it every day ;)) but I found it funny when reading his report as it kinda assumed EVERYONE did!! :D I'm_a_Newbie - the world is bigger than Portsmouth (thank god its a {insert expletive} hole) :D

Depending on what bit he is on about, it is either a 30 or 40 (it is 30 if it is nearer Portchester than North harbor). They normally sit in the 30 as there is a good hiding place and a 30 zone is a better nick than a 40 ;)

[gettin2dizzy]

I just worry that if I do get caught, that's my licence gone :( It's too easy to make 'progress'

[SV'dd]

I never go silly in built up areas but some traps don't appear to be there for safety reasons and it's all too easy to drift above the legal limit, a couple of MPH above tolerance and your done. The local council traps seem to be more stringent than the police. I have used a road angel in my car for a number of years, does anyone have any sort of 'safety camera' device on their bike?

[Hockeynut]

I get more paranoid about cameras on the opposite side of the rode getting the back of my plate!
I take it that ain possible, I assume they only read/work in 1 direction once they are set?

[the_lone_wolf]

I get more paranoid about cameras on the opposite side of the rode getting the back of my plate!
I take it that ain possible, I assume they only read/work in 1 direction once they are set?
i was under the impression that truvelo scameras work both front and rear facing but can only scan one lane of the carriageway, ie: the side it's mounted on

can't recommend trying it though, probably best to slow down briefly then return to cruising speed:rolleyes:

[SV Muppet]

Truvello cameras are activated by Piezo strips a few millimeters below the road surface. You can see the marks where they've been fitted (long straight bitumen lines about 30mm wide running at 90 degrees to the road) and on dual carriageways the strips are installed lane specific to avoid the confusion of multiple strikes from vehicles in both lanes at the same time.
There's usually a set before and after the camera so that it can be used forward or backward facing but obviously they have to rotate the head to do this and connect the other set of piezo strips.
Each tyre that runs over the strips is detected and since the strips are a set distance apart it is a simple distance/time calculation to measure the speed.

The cameras themselves, inside the housings, are obviously trained on a specific part of the road and nothing more, i.e. lanes 1 & 2 of one side of a dual-carriageway. I've not heard of them being used on single carriageways to catch traffic in both directions and I'm not sure it would be evidentially possible. I'll try to find out and update you all.

[the_lone_wolf]

Truvello cameras are activated by Piezo strips a few millimeters below the road surface. You can see the marks where they've been fitted (long straight bitumen lines about 30mm wide running at 90 degrees to the road) and on dual carriageways the strips are installed lane specific to avoid the confusion of multiple strikes from vehicles in both lanes at the same time.
There's usually a set before and after the camera so that it can be used forward or backward facing but obviously they have to rotate the head to do this and connect the other set of piezo strips.
Each tyre that runs over the strips is detected and since the strips are a set distance apart it is a simple distance/time calculation to measure the speed.

The cameras themselves, inside the housings, are obviously trained on a specific part of the road and nothing more, i.e. lanes 1 & 2 of one side of a dual-carriageway. I've not heard of them being used on single carriageways to catch traffic in both directions and I'm not sure it would be evidentially possible. I'll try to find out and update you all.
you sound like someone in the know, how did you aquire all this inside knowledge if i might be curious enough to ask?:D

the council here are pretty hopeless, they have installed truvelos with white painted strips on both directions of the carriageway, and occasionally come and turn the camera housing round.

[Hockeynut]

Wow, nice reply muppet, thanks for the info!

I've not heard of them being used on single carriageways to catch traffic in both directions and I'm not sure it would be evidentially possible. I'll try to find out and update you all.


Aye, that's what I meant.

Here's another permiatation...How about if I'm overtaking, so I'm on the wrong side of a front facing camera which would read traffic going the other way? Ie, does it work in reverse? Yes I'm paranoid, and I also know the easy thing is not to do it. :p Just one of those things I've always wondered. :silent:

[SV Muppet]

Just checked the Truvelo web site and I quote...

"Two-way operation possible from one nearside post with additional piezo sensors in opposite lane."

As I said it's best to look for the piezo strips in the road to know where it can detect from.
I'm still not certain that it's possible to enforce both directions at the same time though. I will endeavour to find out... Watch this space.

Obviously it's better not to take risks with cameras, just as it's better not to take risks with the traffic. There's plenty of Muppets out there! oops what am I saying???

[AndyW]

Each tyre that runs over the strips is detected and since the strips are a set distance apart it is a simple distance/time calculation to measure the speed.


Not sure this would work, as something like a truck with sets of wheels very close together would give completely false readings if not dead straight. (I assume each set of tyres would pass over 2 strips, so a truck cab would have 3 readings done). In fact, I'd like to see soeone computer model this to see what happens if its on a corner and an artic goes past....

[SV Muppet]

These sites are installed carefully to avoid the valid issues that you mention. In fact it matters not what the axle configuration is as it only needs the front axle to strike the two piezo strips in the correct order within a set time period to activate the camera. The vehicle would have to be at a considerable angle to create a false reading, and even then it would read less than the actual speed of the vehicle (basic trig).
The secondary, white painted, check marks are there to provide the evidence on the photographs just as they are used for Gatso cameras.

On a side note about computer modeling, the rubber tubes that you see laid across the roads, 1m apart, connected to data loggers are used to model traffic flows. The available software is extremely good at recognising differing axle configurations. This enables not just speed to be recorded but also the differing types of vehicles based on their wheelbase, i.e. cycles, motorcycles, cars, LGV's, buses, muliti-axles etc etc.

Sorry, think I'm waffling now.

[Jabba]

The local council traps seem to be more stringent than the police.

Local councils/authorities don't measure speed for enforcement purposes.

So far as I know, both the Police and their Scamera Partnerships use the same criteria in a given Police Force's area.

I got zapped by a scamera van at 40mph in a 30mph limit; galling to know that 1mph less and I'd have got away with it (S Wales Police uses a 39mph threshold in 30mph zones for fixed and mobile cameras ;) ).

[SV Muppet]

I agree that local authorities don't monitor traffic speed for enforcement purposes, they usually use the data to set timing of traffic lights, justify pelican crossings etc.
But Police Forces definitely do use survey data for enforcement purposes.

Although some Police and Camera Partnerships in a given area may use the same threshold to prosecute (personally I doubt it), I can categorically say that they do not all opperate in that way. Fixed and Mobile cameras, as I understand, should always apply the same threshold. But Police Officers carrying out hand held laser device enforcement will almost certainly operate at a different threshold.

On the 1st April this year there were lots of changes to the guidelines governing the operation of safety cameras giving more flexibility to each area to make their own decisions regarding thresholds, signing, visibility etc.
We now are less certain regarding the criteria used when passing through different areas.

[RhythmJunkie]

I got zapped by a scamera van at 40mph in a 30mph limit; galling to know that 1mph less and I'd have got away with it (S Wales Police uses a 39mph threshold in 30mph zones for fixed and mobile cameras

Don't let the Thames Valley lads get you...I don't know what their threshold is but they did me for 38mph on a 30mph stretch of dual carriageway coming out of Oxford!

[socommk23]

just wanna say to those muppets that think its ok to abuse the forward facing cammeras by going through them at speed!

DONT DO IT!

your just going to give the law a reason to find a way of getting us all if you take the p*** just cos we dont have front plates!

that will ruin it for all of us!!!!!!!!

chips in plates! plates on the front..(ok less likly) rearwards facing cammeras net to the forward ones! double sided cameras!

noone needs it!

[RhythmJunkie]

Very true socommk23....the idiots that fly down our street in their pimped up noisy little cages are going spoil things soon, it won't be long before people get fed up and ask the council to put in speed humps, they've already done it on a street that runs parallel to ours!! :(
Some people never learn....oops sorry....did I say people? :)

[Grinch]

We get Nippers in there clapped out nova's flying down our street, but mainly after dark. So when do the police come down to do a speed trap? From 9-5... Not much use really.

[philbut]

Don't let the Thames Valley lads get you...I don't know what their threshold is but they did me for 38mph on a 30mph stretch of dual carriageway coming out of Oxford!

Yep, I know the feeling. those bu**ers are always out every morning. i commute from south oxford round the ringroad, through Thame to Aylesbury. I can guarantee to see one of those vans nearly every morning. I know where they hide now but the limits on that dual carrageway are so low that its real hard not to speed (particularly when late for work!)

[I'm_a_Newbie]

Yippee!

Just got back from Scotland and there was no NIP on the doorstep so I must have got away with it.

Still got a clean licence :cheers:

Tim.