Warrington murder

[The Basket]

Really angry about what's in the news about the guy kicked to death trying to protect his car.

My home town and I know the area. Its a shock when its right on the doorstep.

[ArtyLady]

It just seems to get worse everyday out there :(

[slark01]

I've had some trouble with teenagers in the past, just outside my door.
So after dealing with them in a very controversial way, I now have a hammer right by the front door. Luckily there has not been a reason to use it in quite sometime.
It's a sorrowful time we live in when a person can only feel safe in their home when they have to have a weapon handy!

[Viney]

I so want to be a vigilante

[helen]

Sickening. I heard on the radio this am that the three that have been charged are aged 15 - 16. Utter scum.

I was out getting dinner last night, when three teenagers walked past - all armed with iron table / chair legs, with the nastiest looks of hate on their mangy faces. These kids were as rough as anything, and god knows what they were up to.

[stewie]

We moved to Warrington 6 yrs ago from St Helens, now as a born and bred St Helener I can tell you that we had our fair share of problems in the town and when we moved to Warrington we thought things would be better, however it seems every time I open the Warrington guardian all you here about are sexual assaults, attempted murder and actual murder, drugs busts, stabbings, kickings and all manner of anti social behavour. I know there are guys from warrington on the site and im not trying to diss the area at all but there are some real serious problems round here and I cant see things getting any better, and its a shame cos its a really decent place to live on the whole.

[neio79]

If the whole world was not so Fu*king soft nowadays and people had some disipline in life then i belive half these isues would go away.

Kids nowadays know they cant be touched really so think they are above the law. It starts in school, in fact it starts before that with the parents who dont belive in smacking !! FFS!

I say bring back, proper disipline in schools like the cane, Hanging and national service for these little sroats.

Personally i belive strike with violence first as well, if some little scroat was trtying to do damage to my property, get him on his own beat him to an inch of his life quite litrally, sacre the others so that they belive the same will happen to them , and inform them that if anything like that happens again the next time thwy will end up in hospital!! extreme viilanty violence and fear will soon put a stop to them!!!

[The Basket]

We moved to Warrington 6 yrs ago from St Helens, now as a born and bred St Helener I can tell you that we had our fair share of problems in the town and when we moved to Warrington we thought things would be better, however it seems every time I open the Warrington guardian all you here about are sexual assaults, attempted murder and actual murder, drugs busts, stabbings, kickings and all manner of anti social behavour. I know there are guys from warrington on the site and im not trying to diss the area at all but there are some real serious problems round here and I cant see things getting any better, and its a shame cos its a really decent place to live on the whole.

You just came to Warrington for the rugby! Admit it!;)
I see your point but is Warrington any worse than anywhere else?
Dunno.
Every town has its scummy areas even St Andrews has a druggy estate. And that is classy. (by my standards):cool:
The yobs are caught and thats that but you can never replace a father.
There are still good people in Warrington, don't read the headlines and think the worst.

But as you can see I live approx 270 miles from Warrington now. If that ain't a hint, I don't know what is:p:cool::smt110;)

[stewie]

You just came to Warrington for the rugby! Admit it!;)
I see your point but is Warrington any worse than anywhere else?
Dunno.
Every town has its scummy areas even St Andrews has a druggy estate. And that is classy. (by my standards):cool:
The yobs are caught and thats that but you can never replace a father.
There are still good people in Warrington, don't read the headlines and think the worst.

But as you can see I live approx 270 miles from Warrington now. If that ain't a hint, I don't know what is:p:cool::smt110;)

Yep you,re absolutely right of course warringtons no worse or better than most, I didnt mean to slag the place off at all, its just a shame, incidentally I beleive it happened in Padgate, my kids play in a band down at bennets rec and they have been getting a bit of hassle from the local yobs recently , wonder if its the same lot ?

[Smudge]

Viney, dont think vigilanties would get as many rights as the crims, smackheads or thieving scum thats the problem if you were to be caught giving some chav a slap youd be the one who gets punished. our so called country defends the scum an looks after them by giving them food, housing and even drugs so we aint got a chance of sorting the place out i know where your coming from but we'l have to start with the PC brigade. the media scaremongering doesnt help i mean the papers and crimewatch is like the chav version of xfactor there all trying to get there mug in

[timwilky]

didn't MPaton post something about his low crime area called Warrington

[The Basket]

Hey...you seen the new Golden Square shopping centre?In Warrington?
Wow...my jaw hit the floor. It looks well sweet.

You can't hit a chav for being a chav...but you can self defence.

Don't know a MPaton but some bits of Warr are bad and some are good. Two sides of coin and that. Same as everywhere.

[stewie]

Yeah golden square, they are trying to compare it to the trafford centre or bluewater round here, still its not all bad news in Warrington.....Kerry Katona has left :D

[Viney]

Viney, dont think vigilanties would get as many rights as the crims, smackheads or thieving scum thats the problem if you were to be caught giving some chav a slap youd be the one who gets punished. our so called country defends the scum an looks after them by giving them food, housing and even drugs so we aint got a chance of sorting the place out i know where your coming from but we'l have to start with the PC brigade. the media scaremongering doesnt help i mean the papers and crimewatch is like the chav version of xfactor there all trying to get there mug inI wouldnt get caught. There would be no evidence.:smt077

[Viney]

didn't MPaton post something about his low crime area called WarringtonYes bless him. I mean i only went there a couple of times whilst verna was living there, and i wasnt overly impressed. Best thing about Warrington....The Motorway out of it! Houses are cheap though!

[Razor]

It's not just Warrington, most local papers are full of muggings, beatings and stabbings.
My local paper seems to have a battered pensioner on the front page every other week.

It's the ridiculous rule that you must retreat when attacked, only defending yourself when they continue the attack. Not with anything that can be construed a weapon and was out of place from where you got it.

There should be a simple rule to protect life and property. Not saying that property is more valuable than human life, but the protection of personal property from theft or criminal damage should allow a certain amount of leeway in the response.

The world is upside down and nobody in the current government gives a t*ss about us. Mps in their big houses are detached from the normal state of affairs that is taking place in the city centres and streets today.

[The Basket]

Compared to what?
Trafford centre? That is taking civic pride too far.
Hey Viney! I been all over this island of ours and seen bad. I lived in London and there were all sorts going on. I would never say Warr is good but it no worse than any other. Maybe even better than some.

[Smudge]

warr oh as in warrington i though you meant civil

[RhythmJunkie]

It is said that we are being set up for a communist future. Sound barmy?
If the government brought in heavy measures to reduce crime people would be up in arms, moaning about their freedom being curtailed. So how to do it with the publics approval? You allow society to get really dangerous so people are too scared to leave their own homes. After a while they will be so fed up they will gladly accept any reforms or new laws the government bring in. New world order!

Makes sense! Allow people to have their way so the government can get a list together of the scum and the habitual law breakers, then they will know who to target in any future changes.

I think that new bikes may be already chipped and are being tracked so the government can see how many times a random person breaks the motoring laws. You can't get a very good analysis from speed camera statistics. Monitoring a single vehicle driven over several hours gives a better study. They are probably already checking out the new technology for the satellite tracking system for road charging too without us knowing it!

[Smudge]

i don't think were being communistic i believe we just want the punishment to be more dissuading and not so rewarding and for the politically correct reporters and marketers to f*^$ off.

[Smudge]

put it this way my nephew was a smackhead and the powers that be used to run round after him paying for his drugs, housing & furnishings, food, recreation and he still thought he was hard done by. I came out of the army after my second tour of the gulf and they wouldn't do anything for me, they just seem to reward the wrong types and tax the honest, i would welcome some kind of marshal law something has to happen for it to change and im quite willing to lose some privileges for it to happen.

[Jabba]

<soapbox>

The root cause of much of the minor offending, thefts, etc in this country at the moment is the increasing financial gap between the "haves" and the "have nots". Those working in the public sector doing essential work (nurses, teachers, local govt, etc) are having their pay cut in real terms as the govt squeezes pay reviews to below the rate of inflation.

We live in a "must have it now" society where there is increasing peer pressure to keep up on the possessions front, and nowhere is this pressure more intense than amongst the young. It starts at school, where the kids from more affluent families have the latest toys and gadgets and the parents of kids from less fortunate backgrounds can't keep up. This brings about resentment and feelings of envy. This breeds a downward spiral of peer pressure and eventually breaking point is reached....... the kids react.

Much of the increased social gap has occurred buring the last 10 years, i.e. under Labour Government. Their forefathers must be turning in their graves.

</soapbox>

[RhythmJunkie]

i don't think were being communistic

No mate the communism is coming soon...in the future when the government has a far greater control over us thats the kind of society we'll have....effectively communism. We will do as we are told, freedom and democracy will be long gone!

At the moment the criminals can do what they do because they have freedom too.....the freedom to be criminals!! ;)
No more freedom means no more burglars innit? :)

[Smudge]

kids should be taught that theres things that we don't really need call me a hippy but i think its much more rewarding to not have much and save your Penny's for the things you want if i had kids they would be making dens and camping out not playing consoles all day and wanting bling i would welcome a strict government discipline as done me good, erh i think

[thegibdog]

No mate the communism is coming soon...in the future when the government has a far greater control over us thats the kind of society we'll have....effectively communism. We will do as we are told, freedom and democracy will be long gone!

At the moment the criminals can do what they do because they have freedom too.....the freedom to be criminals!! ;)
No more freedom means no more burglars innit? :)

I'm not sure I understand your definition of communism. Aren't you describing fascism?

[RhythmJunkie]

Much of the increased social gap has occurred buring the last 10 years, i.e. under Labour Government.

Ah yes that would be the classless new labour! ;) :)

I was brought up poor and went without and started off life living in a damp council dump but I never stole or burgled or went joy riding in other peoples pride & joy!
I have known millionaires kids who steal and shoplift when they have a gold credit card! I can't explain that! :)

If you got fined £50 every single time you went over 30 in a 30mph limit you would stop speeding! The punishment isn't being dealt out and prison is a holiday camp for the scumbags!
Something has to give soon! :(

[RhythmJunkie]

I'm not sure I understand your definition of communism. Aren't you describing fascism?

They are the same...control of the masses with descision making being centralised and choices being made by the select few. Don't be fooled by the smokescreen called democracy.

If the Iraqi newly elected democratic government were to decide that they were going to kick out the Americans and get on with their own agenda do you think the Bush admin' would be happy with that decision? They were elected 'by' the Bush admin' to rule the country how they want it run! " Control"!

[thegibdog]

They are the same...control of the masses with descision making being centralised and choices being made by the select few. Don't be fooled by the smokescreen called democracy.

If the Iraqi newly elected democratic government were to decide that they were going to kick out the Americans and get on with their own agenda do you think the Bush admin' would be happy with that decision? They were elected 'by' the Bush admin' to rule the country how they want it run! " Control"!

I don't see how this has anything to do with communism, nor how fascism and communism are the same. Just because communist states have been and are being run as dictatorships doesn't mean the two are inextricably linked.

[SoulKiss]

I don't see how this has anything to do with communism, nor how fascism and communism are the same. Just because communist states have been and are being run as dictatorships doesn't mean the two are inextricably linked.

Yep, you are waaaaaay off the mark in your definition of Communism.

Police State, Dictatorship would be closer.

[Smudge]

doesnt anyone think we need a nanny state after all nowadays most of the parents are controlled by the kids some kids just need to be grounded and slapped round the head i Know i did

[The Basket]

Well a few years ago a young lad was killed by a thug and the thug got 18 months. That happened in Warrington too.

18 MONTHS! That would be soft for robbery but for killing?

The problem is crime is no longer followed by punishment. Discipline goes out the window and no one is answerable for thier actions.

I blame liberal views on crime and the idea that it is society is to blame or the parents and not the scumbag.

Personal responsibility is the key.

[Spiderman]

It's not just Warrington, most local papers are full of muggings, beatings and stabbings.
My local paper seems to have a battered pensioner on the front page every other week.

It's the ridiculous rule that you must retreat when attacked, only defending yourself when they continue the attack. Not with anything that can be construed a weapon and was out of place from where you got it.

There should be a simple rule to protect life and property. Not saying that property is more valuable than human life, but the protection of personal property from theft or criminal damage should allow a certain amount of leeway in the response.

The world is upside down and nobody in the current government gives a t*ss about us. Mps in their big houses are detached from the normal state of affairs that is taking place in the city centres and streets today.

Dude, i agree with most of what you say but i'm a bit baffled by this bit.

The law allows for self defence with "resonable force" and also allows you to defend yourself by striking first if you genuinely feel you are about to be attacked.
The difficulty is proving it all tho as the cops seem more intent on prosecuting those defending themselves overzealously rather than asking why the other person was putting themselves in a position whereby they were gonna get a beating for their behaviour.

After all the cops can arrest any of us under section 5 of the public order act (correct me if ive got the wrong act please someone) for using "threatening language or beahviour" and i cant understand why the public dont have any rights when they are faced with the same behaviour except to tollerate it and allow it to escelate due to the abuser seeing you as "weak" for not fighting back.

How many stories are their in local and national papers of a decent person standing up for themselves/property/friends only to end up getting killed for it? And how will it stop if discipline and respect dont start at home?

Hey Viney... can i join your gang mate ;)

[Jester666]

Dude, i agree with most of what you say but i'm a bit baffled by this bit.

The law allows for self defence with "resonable force" and also allows you to defend yourself by striking first if you genuinely feel you are about to be attacked.
The difficulty is proving it all tho as the cops seem more intent on prosecuting those defending themselves overzealously rather than asking why the other person was putting themselves in a position whereby they were gonna get a beating for their behaviour.

After all the cops can arrest any of us under section 5 of the public order act (correct me if ive got the wrong act please someone) for using "threatening language or beahviour" and i cant understand why the public dont have any rights when they are faced with the same behaviour except to tollerate it and allow it to escelate due to the abuser seeing you as "weak" for not fighting back.

How many stories are their in local and national papers of a decent person standing up for themselves/property/friends only to end up getting killed for it? And how will it stop if discipline and respect dont start at home?

Hey Viney... can i join your gang mate ;)

They got me on that a couple of years ago!! :x

[RhythmJunkie]

Fascism:
A political theory advocating an "authoritarian hierarchical government"(as opposed to democracy or liberalism).

Socialism:
1/ An economic system based on "state ownership of capital".
2/ A political theory advocating "state ownership of industry".

Communism:
A form of socialism that "abolishes private ownership".

Is it just me or is there a common thread running through these ideologies?
Either the people have ownership and power or the government do, so I tend to lump together socialism, communism and fascism but then I put a liberal democracy on a completely different level, a sort of opposite ideal!
Do you see my way of thinking?
We are led to believe that the world of politics has lots of different and varied ideals but in reality there are only two, communism and democracy!

I mean....show me a socialist or communist country and I'll show you a fascist dictatorship running that country. What our government will end up doing, when we are totally fed up of being ripped off by the now privatised public sector, is take back control, centralise power and descision making, and only allow us to do things based on whether we can afford to pay or not.

New carbon taxes on your utility bills.
Pay per mile to drive.
They will make you pay to wipe your runny nose eventually and if you think this is far fetched nonsense wait a while and see what happens. If I'm wrong you can have a good laugh on my behalf, if I'm right then god help us all!

Of course I could just be talking bo**ocks! ;) :smt003

[RhythmJunkie]

Sorry a bit off topic there maybe....

I blame liberal views on crime and the idea that it is society is to blame or the parents and not the scumbag

Too much of a good thing.....too much freedom???

An individual must be held responsible for their actions!
When the authorities say that an 11 year old is not old enough to understand the consequences of their crimes, I find that highly questionable!

[The Basket]

We have freedom limited by the laws we live under.
The problems are as much social as criminal. We have replaced the moral aspect of religion with the immoral aspect of greed and selfishness.

Now the guys who are caught could go to jail but may only get a small sentence. Is that justice?
If society believes that justice no longer serves the victims then we are in big trouble.

[Smudge]

thats it im moving abroad youve all depressed me :(

[keithd]

thats it im moving abroad youve all depressed me


i dont think the problem is exclusive to this country im afraid...

[Jelster]

The problem is with both respect & discipline in general.

Schools no longer have the ability to discipline children, many parents will not discipline their kids, and in fact, we are starting to see the 2nd generation of this.

Many "youths" of today are 2nd generation "non disciplined" children. Their parents lacked discipline and were never taught the values of right and wrong, so they don't (maybe don't even want to) instil this into their children. Money has little to do with it, although I would say that children from "richer" families can be disciplined by removal of access to material goods (ie take their games consoles etc from them). In poorer families it's not there to take away in the first place.

There is a fundamental lack of both respect and understanding about what is right or wrong, and what you should/shouldn't do. I sailed pretty close to the edge as a teenager, but in the end my Dad sorted me out. All it took was a very harsh talking to, and a visit from the local community copper. This doesn't happen nowdays

I have always tried to deal with my boy in a way he can understand. Maybe I've been lucky, but I find sitting down 1-2-1 with him, telling him how I feel and what I expect from him has worked. Making kids aware of what your expectations are and helping them reach them is a way they can aspire to something. He has also been brought up to understand that the police are not there to harass him, but to make sure that he keeps within the law and they have his best interests at heart.

Parents who don't play an active part in their children's upbringing only have themselves to blame. Yes the Government has got things wrong, yes our children are influenced by some of the "bad" things they see on TV, but without direction and commitment from the within their own home what chance do they have ?

I'll get off of my soapbox now....

.

[stewie]

Just had the Warington guardian deliverd and understandably the front page and pages 1 and 2 are devoted to Garry Newlove,s tragic murder, bur more importantly we have 3 pages devoted to Kerry Katona again, sorry but that just about sums up Warrington for me Im afraid.

[Jester666]

Just had the Warington guardian deliverd and understandably the front page and pages 1 and 2 are devoted to Garry Newlove,s tragic murder, bur more importantly we have 3 pages devoted to Kerry Katona again, sorry but that just about sums up Warrington for me Im afraid.

That explains the wig in your avatar? KK fan are you? ;)

[keithd]

Just had the Warington guardian deliverd and understandably the front page and pages 1 and 2 are devoted to Garry Newlove,s tragic murder, bur more importantly we have 3 pages devoted to Kerry Katona again, sorry but that just about sums up Warrington for me Im afraid.

think that sums up the state of the nation....

[stewie]

That explains the wig in your avatar? KK fan are you? ;)

Just growing it out you know ;)

[The Basket]

Ah the Warrington Guardian.:rolleyes:

Proof that a free press is not worth fighting for.

Also remember that some people are really bad people and have no place in our society. There are no excuses for who they are and what they do. Even from the do-gooder liberals who seem to have the hand on the levers of power.

[stewie]

Ah the Warrington Guardian.:rolleyes:

Proof that a free press is not worth fighting for.

Also remember that some people are really bad people and have no place in our society. There are no excuses for who they are and what they do. Even from the do-gooder liberals who seem to have the hand on the levers of power.

Well she was in atomic kitten, but I wouldnt say she,s evil :o

[RhythmJunkie]

I don't know if I'm going to get flamed here by the lets laugh at the conspiracy nutters brigade .. but .. there is growing evidence that poisons in our diet and vaccinations are to blame for lots of brain dissorders in our youngsters so maybe they are not to blame.
Take the flu jab for instance. It used to be more than 40% mercury, the mercury was used as a preservative for the vaccine. They are using an alternative these days but it may still be in use.
Flouride in the toothpaste and in the water. Just research what flouride is and what it does to you then make up your own mind whether or not it should be added to our drinking water supply!
Did you know that in WWII the Germans used flouride to dumb down the prisoners of war to stop them rioting? Did you also know what the active ingredient is in the amazing anti-depressant Prozac?
http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/2003-08-Prozac-Paxil-Fluorophenyl.htm

There is though a core element of genetic pondlife which tries to destroy everything good in the world. The lager swilling, spliff smoking hoody fer instance! Get a job, get a life, then maybe I'll accept them as part of the human race!
Meanwhile the poisons take care of the rest of the lower classes, good or not!

[The Basket]

Katona needed so many pages to fit in that enormous chest shes got.

Boy...like two beach balls!

But chest aside, she is totally what's wrong with society today. Fame for fames sake.

Hey RJ...you OK man? Stop reading The Guardian and the world will be a better place.

[mac99]

ITake the flu jab for instance. It used to be more than 40% mercury,
This is wrong by a factor of 10,000.

But I suppose in the context of this thread it fits.

[RhythmJunkie]

This is wrong by a factor of 10,000.

But I suppose in the context of this thread it fits.

Yep thimerosal is 49.6% mercury not the jab itself!
Shouldn't that be a factor of 1,000??
Naughty RJ! :smt021
I'll just go read a bible to remind myself not to tell lies! :rolleyes::D


Basket....I rarely read newspapers dude, last time I read the Guardian was last year. :D

[SoulKiss]

Hey RJ, this one is for you

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin-foil_hat

Dont forget the coat hangers for youe ceiling, and you might want to cut down on the Focusyn. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brother%27s_Little_Helper)

:)