Snake oil or new tech? (Pulstar plugs)

[jambo]

OK, did a search and couldn't find this discussed before:

All a little academic as they don't seem to have bike sizes on the main site, but had this advert pop up while looking at another site. So, snake oil to get you parting with your hard earned, or new tech leading the way in what's possible?

http://www.pulstarplug.com/
Discuss......

[John Burt]

Anybody remeber the little glass cylinders full of small ball bearings that used to go in line in the HT circuit, worked on a simillar principle - storing charge and releasing it with more impetus. I seem to remember that they were tainted with snake oil as well. IMHO the principle seemssound but does it actually work, more to the po viz a viz cost/gains.int are they any better than say iridium plugs

[Dan]

If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

Like those electric 'superchargers'

[Ol Boc]

A bit like the Isle of Wight ferry, I would say.

[philbut]

What a load of pants, what they are essentially describing is a circuit with inbuilt capacitance. oh, hang on a minute, don't we already have one of those in an ignition circuit...And to store that claimed amount of power in such a short space of time would take a whopping big capacitir, that would no way fit inot that package. Nice idea though.

On a similar "snake oil" like theme, has anyone seen these?
http://www.ecomagnets.com/motoflow.htm

[Jester666]

Snake oil!! :rolleyes:

[jambo]

On a similar "snake oil" like theme, has anyone seen these?
http://www.ecomagnets.com/motoflow.htm

Now I'm pretty sure they're getting sued, mostly after admitting there were no magnetically charged particles in petrol....

Ok lets open this up, Best scam products! Post 'em up!

[John Burt]

Emporer's New Clothes

[Scoobs]

Best scam products! Post 'em up!
http://www.forward-moving.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/38197-spam.jpg

Oops. Thought you said SPAM.

[Stu]

Shell Optimax

[MiniMatt]

Wasn't / isn't Optimax / V-Power (whatever they're calling it now) a higher octane than regular super unleaded though? Still not much use if your engine management can't advance timing on the fly but surely it does "something" (assuming timing is addressed).

The bit they always spout on about how it contains micro badgers equipped with specially adapted scrubbing and cleaning squirrels to coat your fuel lines in special friction reducing nano-rabbits is undoubtedly loblocks though :D

[Stu]

But didn't Optimax actually damage your engine - so you were paying more to ensure your engine was damaged - & that's why it was withdrawn & now they have V Power.

[Sid Squid]

I've just read that website that Jambo put the link up to, several things stand out, of which this is the most obvious:

Tests at an independent laboratory demonstrate how Pulstar™ pulse plugs burn fuel more efficiently than spark plugs. In this high-speed video (shot at 68,000 frames per second), you can actually see the ignition plume of Pulstar™ growing at more than twice the speed of the spark plug. Pulstar™ generates a much larger spark than spark plugs, which reduces overall burn time and burns the fuel more completely. Once created, the spark dissipates over a period of 30 millionths of a second.
Now I'm not claiming to be an expert at this stuff, (the dynamics of gas flow, ignition and combustion are frighteningly complex and take a very long learning time to fully appreciate - I can however assure any one who may be wondering that it ain't simple), but the speed of burn is only in part dependant on spark voltage and duration, clearly the spark must be big enough, and must be of enough duration such that the fire is effectively lit, but my understanding is that the dynamics of cylinder flow and turbulence are more important. Simply put if the gas in the cylinder* were still, then the flame would travel through it at whatever speed, and if you were to be able to view a cylinder with a central plug from above you'd see the flame travel out as a widening circle until all the gas were burnt**, this would be very quick, but clearly it would take a given time. The reality is that the gas in the cylinder isn't still, this is good, as the burning gas itself is moving around the cylinder and transmits the flame to the unburnt gas more quickly, improving gas pressure rise and BMEP. Thus changing the spark duration, (assuming there were previously enough), won't provide more BMEP.

But we need Embee to tell us definitively - he knows oodles about this stuff.

*Specifically the combustion chamber, but I don't want to type that every time.
*Unlucky - it never is.

[Lozzo]

I've just read that website that Jambo put the link up to, several things stand out, of which this is the most obvious:

Now I'm not claiming to be an expert at this stuff,


My (sorta)girlfriend is, she has a PhD in mechanical engineering and works as a senior engine development engineer for a major european motor manufacturer. Her doctorate thesis was on building a hydrogen gas fuelled engine that didn't detonate itself to bits. There's isn't much she doesn't know about this subject.

I'll ask her what she thinks

[BILLY]

My (sorta)girlfriend is, she has a PhD in mechanical engineering and works as a senior engine development engineer for a major european motor manufacturer. Her doctorate thesis was on building a hydrogen gas fuelled engine that didn't detonate itself to bits. There's isn't much she doesn't know about this subject.

I'll ask her what she thinks


She sounds very intelligent and will go far in life so marry her and you can retire young and enjoy life;)

[Lozzo]

She sounds very intelligent and will go far in life so marry her and you can retire young and enjoy life;)

The rearson she is still only my sorta girlfriend is she's planning on emigrating to further her career - I have no desire to live or work in the USA again, or do the same in China or S. Korea.

[Lozzo]

On the subject of retirement. I've already done the semi-retirement thing at 44, I got bored and went and found another full-time job within 9 months.

[embee]

But we need Embee to tell us definitively - he knows oodles about this stuff.
.
Steady there Sid!

Can't really add a lot more to what Sid said.

There are certainly a few stated "facts" and claims in the link which stretch credibility. For example they state diesel fuel has more energy content than gasoline, which it doesn't (typically 42MJ/kg diesel, 43MJ/kg gasoline).

Also the claim of 10% increases in low speed torque from products like this just doesn't happen.

It's a sales pitch by an American outfit, treat it accordingly.

I'm a bit reluctant to dismiss every aspect of the claims, I don't know what the product really will do in practice. I know some small details can give real effects, like Iridium plugs vs. "conventional" plugs do extend the lean limit by a little, and do improve combustion stability by a little. The effects are small however, but every little helps in the engine business.

I'd be very surprised if the "active" elements of this product really does what they claim it does, and compared to the technology of modern ignition systems I'd be very surprised if there would be enough energy storage capacity to do anything useful.

What does puzzle me is that someone has put a not-inconsiderable amount of money into the production of these things, so they presumably have reckoned they can make money (though that's not the same as whether the product does what it claims).

I'd want to see genuine test results myself to believe the claims. I've seen numerous "alternative spark-plugs" come and go, and they make all the right noises with the claims, but the product never actually delivers the goods in the end.

Until I see something properly independant I'll stick to NGK iridiums.

It'll be very interesting to hear input from Lozzo's other half with some proper in depth knowledge (as opposed to my peripheral involvement).

[Ol Boc]

I always like Sid's and embee's posts!

The "best" spark plug in the world won't make more than a ha'porth's difference to an engine in which any one of the ignition/fuelling/valve timing/combustion chamber shape is designed all wrong. And that doesn't apply to many engines today, given emissions legislation (but wasn't always so).

Conversely, it is remarkable how well a nicely designed and well set-up engine will run on even the cheapest and simplest of spark plugs.

So what the good ol' plug marketing boys do is to make sure that they don't always compare like-with-like. As an example, look at the high-speed camera shots and you will see a nice Pulstar plug with about a 2.5mm center electrode being compared with a fine-wire plug (ie platinum, palladium or irridium) with a geater core nose projection. Tiny difference maybe, but as none of us were in the dyno-cell we don't know the effect - so that makes it snake-oil in my books!

Would I buy them? Fat chance!

[Pedrosa]

Some interesting comments made, especially by Ol Shep.;)

"When I was a lad and Ol Shep was a pup"

[northwind]

Rhythymjunkie will be along in a moment to tell us that we're all buying into the petrol company's conspiracy :smt003

[gettin2dizzy]

Very similar to a type of plug used in drag racing. However their engines are designed for it. On the other hand it could help with engine wear/spark plug build up which may make them worth it. I wouldn't dismiss it just yet.