View Full Version : Police want to up the drinking age to 21
What a load of rubbish that idea is. They reckon its to stop yobs causing havoc when hammered.
Most of the yobs that cause havoc are under 18 so it wont make a difference. Its like speeding by 2 mph or 20mph.... its still speeding and breaking the law.
The only way around it I can see is making it illegal to sell alcohol without seeing ID first, regardless of the age of the buyer. i.e. a 30 year old has to show ID. It wont stop it completely but will help.
Also need something to kick a little respect into the kids nowadays.
Raising the legal drinking age is the same as when they were trying to raise the legal smoking age to stop under age smokers.... How will that work? They are not allowed to buy fags at 14 so how will raising the smoking age to 18 make a jot of difference?!?
I get so frustrated at knee-jerk reactions!
ASM-Forever
15-08-07, 10:29 AM
I'm 21 so i don't care :)
Whilst i dont necessarily agree with it, i can see that it might serve a purpose. A 16yr old might get away with looking ballpark 18, but never 21. Although lets face it....10yr olds will still be down the park necking white lightning and hooch either way.
Fizzy Fish
15-08-07, 10:31 AM
It's like when they catch 14 yr old joyriders and then ban them from driving for 2 yrs - pointless basically... :roll:
Raising the legal drinking age is the same as when they were trying to raise the legal smoking age to stop under age smokers.... How will that work? They are not allowed to buy fags at 14 so how will raising the smoking age to 18 make a jot of difference?!?
it will make it harder for 14 year olds to buy them? visible differences between 14 and 16 year olds is probably less than between 14 and 18...?
same with raising the alcohol age, it'll make it harder, wont get rid of the problem, but will help.
im in favour of anything that helps.
kicking some respect into them?....whats that all about then?
How come other european coiuntries aren't tarnished by yobbish behaviour?
philbut
15-08-07, 10:33 AM
I agree. I think it was actually just one copper who said this. Seems like he blamed the problem on everyone else BUT the pigs. It was interesting reading on the BBC site all the comments people had left. Loads of "lets put a curfew on young people" and that kind of s*1t.
I think some people really do believe that every teenager or youth is some kind of beered up yobo, who is hiding a knife in their hoody. Also, that every teen who drinks underage is a trouble maker. Its such a shame. I drank from the age of 12 - my parents encouraged me to do so sensibly - Its not drinking that the problem, its abusing it.
Maybe if they LOWERED the age, kids could drink without having to hide out in the park or on the street and it wouldn't be cool as it would be legal. What is the first thing a kid does when you say "don't do that". They go off and do it anyway, and think they're hard. It works in Europe, but then they don't have the binge drinking culture we seem to have over here?
Ok... so kicking may have been the wrong word. But more and more kids now have no respect for any kind of authority or other peoples possessions.
I agree. I think it was actually just one copper who said this. Seems like he blamed the problem on everyone else BUT the pigs....
i gave up reading after you refered to the police as pigs....
are you gutted they're trying to raise teh age limit? noe mor alcoholz
It's like when they catch 14 yr old joyriders and then ban them from driving for 2 yrs - pointless basically... :roll:
It is not pointless as the ban takes affect from when you can have a licence i.e. if you are banned then you can’t get a licence until 19!!
As for why the Europeans don’t have this problem, well IMO partly because they have not been taken over by the stupid pink and fluffy PC liberal brigade yet!! So their police don’t have a mountain of paperwork to do when arresting people, they are not restrained by the fact they have to ensure the prisoners rights are in place etc.
EU police will just beat you and nick you; ours have had their hands tied by the government too much so cant do their job as effectively! If our police were allowed to be a bit more hands on and deal with trouble makers more physically then it would put off these Yobs.
As for the age of drinking, in some parts of Europe its 14 and they serve it with your big Mac!! So the age or alcohol is not an argument to back up these claims of yobs. It’s the fact that our society is too soft on offenders and the police and justice system is all set up to be kind not discipline.
I have said it before and will say it again; to counter this problem we need to stop being so soft and re-introduce harder sentences, more hard police, national service, hanging, corporal punishment etc.
Why should prisoners have a cell to themselves with sky and a Xbox?? It should be a punishment with 4 to cell no luxury and only one hour out of the cell, to exercise.
Until we get rid of all the stupid PC and fluffiness in this country the problem will only get worse!!!
So what happens when they raise the drinking / smoking age? Would you rather have your kids drinking & smoking or snorting coke?
If the police were allowed to confiscate the beer and slap 'em round the face, they might learn to drink in private/moderation. Why try and ban everything? And why always blame it on 'youths'? Most of the trouble I see caused by drinking is grown men fighting.
philbut
15-08-07, 11:01 AM
i gave up reading after you refered to the police as pigs....
are you gutted they're trying to raise teh age limit? noe mor alcoholz
Ooops, didn't mean to offend, apologies. No, it wouldn't affect me anyway, but there does seem to be a tendency for the police to demand more regulation or more powers off the back of public fear. Look how the counter terrorism laws (ok, a far cry from underage drinking i know) were forced through by Labour. yes, in the right circumstances i agree they are a good idea, but the police use their new powers, it would seem , against people who represent an inconvenience to those in power or large corporations - people who they know full well are not terrorists. I don't think further regulation is the answer. Criminalising young people achieves nothing, these are social problems, not something that can be solved through raising the age for purchasing some beer!
Pedrosa
15-08-07, 11:13 AM
Instead of raising the legal age for drinking why not adopt a more pro active response to the problem?
Why not set a legal drink limit for everyone? Naturally that can be perhaps set a tadge higher then the level for drink driving and people would run the risk of randomly being breathalysed when leaving any establishment were drink is served or in fact when they are simply gathering on street corners? In fact anyone out in public could be asked to provide a breath sample as after all if they get rat faced at home, they should stay home until the affects have worn off?
Would require more officers on the beat but the trade off might be a safer and more responsible attitude to drinking and more fines to swell the coffers?
Measures need to be taken from what I read, as excessive and loutish drinking is a problem in the UK.(I am not suggesting it is the only place that suffers from this.)
Yobish culture has been allowed to rule this country because WE as a nation have let it get that far. With all this political correct and human rights nonsense, we allow anyone to do just about whatever they like, and get away with it.
Yes, it starts with Discipline in the homes. Then respect for your elders, society in general and that include the police, and authority in general which is not evident in this country. All the 'kids' know that they are going to get a slapped wrist at most from the police, and probably little discipline form the parents.
We as a nation, need to come down Hard, with government backing (ie law changes) on the youth of today, and beyond.
As for drinking, this is just part of it. Doesnt matter what age you raise the limit to, if they can get it at 14 they will, plain and simple. If you ban someone for driving at 14 for 5 years say, what difference is that going to make? None, thats what.
Kerfews would be a great idea. Anyone under the age of 16 on the streets after 9pm, would involve arrest and a fine, paid for by the parents. This may make the parents think more, the 'kid' to think more and maybe just maybe start to kerb so called 'Yob culture' in Britian.
Instead of raising the legal age for drinking why not adopt a more pro active response to the problem?
Why not set a legal drink limit for everyone? Naturally that can be perhaps set a tadge higher then the level for drink driving and people would run the risk of randomly being breathalysed when leaving any establishment were drink is served or in fact when they are simply gathering on street corners? In fact anyone out in public could be asked to provide a breath sample as after all if they get rat faced at home, they should stay home until the affects have worn off?
Kerfews would be a great idea. Anyone under the age of 16 on the streets after 9pm, would involve arrest and a fine, paid for by the parents. This may make the parents think more, the 'kid' to think more and maybe just maybe start to kerb so called 'Yob culture' in Britian.
Why not just confiscate all babies, put them in concentration camps, spend 18yrs brainwashing them then release them back into society? :rolleyes:
Jester666
15-08-07, 11:22 AM
Why not just confiscate all babies, put them in concentration camps, spend 18yrs brainwashing them then release them back into society? :rolleyes:
Now there's a plan, get 'em young and mould 'em in our image! :D
Bring back solid fuel heating with chimneys that need cleaning... see where I'm going? :D
I've got four offspring... Nah, I haven't got the answers. Mine to be fair are pretty good but they don't have the values I seem to recall as a youngster. The pressure due to other parents that IMHO having, lets say lower values, i.e. their kids seem to do whatever they want etc is very difficult. (Don't get me wrong they aren't bad kids but if you put the same scenario into less caring situations then, where parents don't give a stuff...) Fortunately I'm a bolshy git and just dig in harder :D "if you want to do that, move out" and "not in this house" etc :smt035
These other kids always seem to have oodles of dosh. Mine get fixed pocket money with the incentive to get a job if they want more together with a 'time' limit that if they don't get a job by then they want get any money.
I really don't know the answer but simply raising the age limit will just affect a small handful who are just on the edge of reason. They raised the limit for smoking but it seems more youths smoke now than ever?
Samnooshka
15-08-07, 12:29 PM
I think the problem of Yobbish behaviour has been allowed to escalate in this country. Parents are unsure of what punishment is good punishment and there is nowhere really for them to turn apart from parenting classes, which as far as many parents are concerned are a waste of time.
I also think now we are at the stage where the high amount of teenage pregnancies has come back to bite itself on the ass as the kids that are out there now are the children of children (if that makes any sense) so (no offence to anyone who had kids young) in that respect makes the problem worse as how can a kid of 15 or 16 know what is right or wrong by their kids, probably are at the age now where they want their social life back as they lost it at the time when they should have been doing all the socialising and partying etc and even uni, and now their kids are old enough to go out on their own they are kicking them out in the street to go "play" to get them out of their sight.
Raising the limit will help in some ways as its easier to tell the difference between a 21 year old and a 16 year old. However, most places should have in place the are you 21? scheme which asks for ID on anyone who looks under 21. However in a group of kids... there is normally a 21 year old who hangs around with them anyway so even raising the age wont always stop them.
The situation has got to the point now where something has to happen. Parents need to take responsibility and even Viney's comment about curphew (sp?) is an option to get parents to at least know where their kids are. It is up to the parents to install the respect and values into the children which starts when they are babies. Parentage is a life time job and doesn't stop when the kid reaches 14 and can be kicked out to go out with its mates instead of getting under the parents feet.
I'm not a parent but i do know its not easy, if it was easy we wouldn't be in the situation of yobs hanging on corners beating up old ladies and shouting abuse. However, when i do have kids i will raise them to my best ability knowing how hard things can get and hoping they turn out to be well balanced young people, and i wouldn't be afraid to use punishment if they went wrong (and i don't mean smaching the life out of them but more guided and graded punishment to fit the "crime" and if that means a smach across the backside then so be it) if every parent did that then would we still have the yob culture we do today.
but there does seem to be a tendency for the police to demand more regulation or more powers off the back of public fear. !
the police need more powers to conteract the namby pamby, pink and flufy PC rules that this govenment have imposed!
We need to come down hard on the trouble makers in our society!
I thnk we should impose zero tollerance in the worst areas for a while.
Fizzy Fish
15-08-07, 12:32 PM
It is not pointless as the ban takes affect from when you can have a licence i.e. if you are banned then you can’t get a licence until 19!!
the point being that if they don't give a damn about driving under age & without a licence now, why are they going to care when they're 17?
I say give all the alcohol to me, i'll keep it safe... :wink:
Ceri JC
15-08-07, 12:33 PM
The only way around it I can see is making it illegal to sell alcohol without seeing ID first, regardless of the age of the buyer. i.e. a 30 year old has to show ID. It wont stop it completely but will help.
I get so frustrated at knee-jerk reactions!
I don't think it'd make any perceptible difference- I was in bits of America where it is a legal requirement for everyone to show ID when buying alcohol, failing to ask will result in the store concerned losing their liquor licence and the penalties for providing minors with it are severe. The kids still managed to get drink and I ('only' 25) regularly bought alcohol without being ID'd from off licences/garages, etc.
Hell, I had a fake passport colour photocopy (which was used to get other 'legit' IDs with a different DOB) when I was a nipper. Even if you tie it down to "we only accept a passport or driver's licence", that can be circumvented- one of my mates is American, so we would get him to show his (fake) American driving licence and claim he was over studying for a year on a university exchange scheme. They could tell from his accent he was American and had no easy way of checking what a North Carolina driving licence looked like so they always said it was okay and sold him beer.
It's a drinking culture change you need, not more enforcement/rules. Sadly, cultural changes like this take years or decades, not weeks or months.
Parents are unsure of what punishment is good punishment and there is nowhere really for them to turn apart from parenting classes, which as far as many parents are concerned are a waste of time.
.
dosent help when again the jelly fish in power have outlawed smacking!! FFS its the basic for of disiplne avalible to parents at an early age.
There has to be a direct link between the demise of our society and lack of general respect and the rise of political correctness and human rights this and that??
Samnooshka
15-08-07, 12:46 PM
dosent help when again the jelly fish in power have outlawed smacking!! FFS its the basic for of disiplne avalible to parents at an early age.
There has to be a direct link between the demise of our society and lack of general respect and the rise of political correctness and human rights this and that??
As far as i know, basic human rights are, Food, Water, and Shelter, not tv, pool table and sofa, which is what the prisons seem to think they are. So the whole human rights things gets on my wick anyway really.
As for the smacking, used correctly it can help, but all the do-gooders seem to think that a gentle smack is beating the crap out of your kids and yes in some cases smacking can go too far... it is really hard when you are so angry to control that anger and not hit so hard as to cause actual harm. But then there is that thing called moderation which in this country is non existant. It should be up to the parent to decide what punishment is right for certain situations not the courts... at the end of the day, if i found out that my kid has been out drinking and causing havvock, he'd be given a good hiding then marched down to the police station to tell them where he got the booze etc from and pay for any damage caused.
SoulKiss
15-08-07, 01:15 PM
As far as i know, basic human rights are, Food, Water, and Shelter, not tv, pool table and sofa, which is what the prisons seem to think they are. So the whole human rights things gets on my wick anyway really.
As for the smacking, used correctly it can help, but all the do-gooders seem to think that a gentle smack is beating the crap out of your kids and yes in some cases smacking can go too far... it is really hard when you are so angry to control that anger and not hit so hard as to cause actual harm. But then there is that thing called moderation which in this country is non existant.
There are no such things as Human rights.
It is not our right to food, or to water, or to shelter.
The society that we live in says that we should have access to these things, and as a by-product of being part of this society, which means living by its rules, and doing our bit, we are entitled to this.
Why should someone that breaks the rules be entitled to to any of that?
Because we hope that when they have had their punishment they will then go on to contribute.
We have issues over rubbish collection, street cleaning because of the cost.
Why should it not be a requirement that anyone who is able-bodied has to go out and improve the environment for society, to actually work for the handouts they get.
Why not bring in legislation that means that in return for your dole money, and housing benefit you have to do x hours of community service.
And as for kids, make the parents legally responsible for what they do, so that if the kid steals a car and receives a ban, the father takes the theft rap and has to go on the bus for a while. That would encourage parents to know where their kids are.
As far as i know, basic human rights are, Food, Water, and Shelter, not tv, pool table and sofa, which is what the prisons seem to think they are. So the whole human rights things gets on my wick anyway really.
As for the smacking, used correctly it can help, but all the do-gooders seem to think that a gentle smack is beating the crap out of your kids and yes in some cases smacking can go too far... it is really hard when you are so angry to control that anger and not hit so hard as to cause actual harm. But then there is that thing called moderation which in this country is non existant. It should be up to the parent to decide what punishment is right for certain situations not the courts... at the end of the day, if i found out that my kid has been out drinking and causing havvock, he'd be given a good hiding then marched down to the police station to tell them where he got the booze etc from and pay for any damage caused.
+1 Agreed.
As far as i know, basic human rights are, Food, Water, and Shelter, not tv, pool table and sofa, which is what the prisons seem to think they are. So the whole human rights things gets on my wick anyway really.
As for the smacking, used correctly it can help, but all the do-gooders seem to think that a gentle smack is beating the crap out of your kids and yes in some cases smacking can go too far... it is really hard when you are so angry to control that anger and not hit so hard as to cause actual harm. But then there is that thing called moderation which in this country is non existant. It should be up to the parent to decide what punishment is right for certain situations not the courts... at the end of the day, if i found out that my kid has been out drinking and causing havvock, he'd be given a good hiding then marched down to the police station to tell them where he got the booze etc from and pay for any damage caused.Glad youre not my mum ;) :lol:
Jester666
15-08-07, 02:27 PM
As far as i know, basic human rights are, Food, Water, and Shelter, not tv, pool table and sofa, which is what the prisons seem to think they are. So the whole human rights things gets on my wick anyway really.
As for the smacking, used correctly it can help, but all the do-gooders seem to think that a gentle smack is beating the crap out of your kids and yes in some cases smacking can go too far... it is really hard when you are so angry to control that anger and not hit so hard as to cause actual harm. But then there is that thing called moderation which in this country is non existant. It should be up to the parent to decide what punishment is right for certain situations not the courts... at the end of the day, if i found out that my kid has been out drinking and causing havvock, he'd be given a good hiding then marched down to the police station to tell them where he got the booze etc from and pay for any damage caused.
In total agreement with this.
A clip round the ear never did me any harm. I do despair at all the PC stuff going on at the moment!
Where will it all end? :confused:
philbut
15-08-07, 03:45 PM
In total agreement with this.
A clip round the ear never did me any harm. I do despair at all the PC stuff going on at the moment!
Where will it all end? :confused:
So is it actually illegal to smack your kid on the bum????? how stupid. I got smacked plenty of times, and i'm not mentally scared for life.
Kids learn from those around them, so maybe some of the little s*1ts that go around causing everyone grief are just copying their beered up loud mouth parents. After all, as someone has already said, there are plenty of adults out there who behave just as badly when they drink. Maybe the copper is right, its down to parents to set a good example, but who can do anything about their behavior.
i was smacked as a child too, by both parents. mum usually, but if especially bad dad got involved. scary.
and i'm living proof that there's nothing wrong with smacking your child. can't get any more normal than me.
carry on (screaming)
SoulKiss
15-08-07, 04:29 PM
So is it actually illegal to smack your kid on the bum?????
On the bum did you say sir? That would be sexual assault sir, and with a child, ohh looks like you are going away for a LONG time sir. Mind if we have a look on your computer sir...............
Words that may appear in a court some time soon if the nannies get their way....
Wideboy
15-08-07, 04:32 PM
On the bum did you say sir? That would be sexual assault sir, and with a child, ohh looks like you are going away for a LONG time sir. Mind if we have a look on your computer sir...............
Words that may appear in a court some time soon if the nannies get their way....
you cant say that! you will upset the child molesters! its not fair on them:rolleyes:
How come other european coiuntries aren't tarnished by yobbish behaviour?
Because their Police will kick the crap out of you if you misbehave. Most other countries don't have the liberal pinko left wing attitudes we've had breaking down society's morals for so long.
gettin2dizzy
15-08-07, 04:46 PM
Anyone who's lived in Oz knows how they should do it. They drink frikkin loads, but have a much better attitude
Anyone who's lived in Oz knows how they should do it. They drink frikkin loads, but have a much better attitude
But aussie beer is pi55 compared to the real stuff we have here
(which is of no use to a teetotaller like myself anywy)
Why is excessive drink always allowed as mitigation? If you're Pi$$ed up and hit someone, it' still assault; if you smash a bus shelter, it's still criminal damage. But it seems all you have to say is "sorry I had too much to drink" and you're let off the hook. If anything, the punishment should be more severe in those instances so that the individuals learn self control and know that it's not acceptable to get so hammered that you can't control yourself like a decent citizen.
Alcohol isn't the problem, it's the disorderly behaviour that goes with it. We should just haul everyone off "drunk & disorderly" at the first offence. Stop being nice to them - they obviously couldn't give a to$$ about us!
the_runt69
15-08-07, 08:36 PM
NOOOOOOO the daughters 18 next month and promised to buy me a drink, cant have her getting out of it now can I
hoodlum
15-08-07, 08:37 PM
Police want to up the drinking age to 21
.........whilst lowering the age of policemen to 16.........riightttt
Bluepete
16-08-07, 09:15 AM
Police want to up the drinking age to 21
.........whilst lowering the age of policemen to 16.........riightttt
:winner:
It's very wierd, having a teenager, who still needs to decide which is his fave spot on the sofa, tell a strapping great big drunk Salford knuckle dragger to stop beating up his equally drunk missus! What's even stranger is the looks on said teen cops face when the missus then starts beating up the teen Cop for attempting to arrest the hubby!
"Leave 'im alone, 'ees me world, I luv 'im"
accompanied by a pubescent warbling of the caution never fails to raise my spirits!
timwilky
16-08-07, 09:29 AM
Maybe we need to be a little more radical.
scrap the age to drink completely. Whether to serve an individual alcohol should be at the discretion of the licensee. I know of 30 year olds that are not responsible drinkers.
At present, the law is an ass. A father cannot take his 17 year old son for a quiet pint. to celebrate his upcoming birthday. Yet the following day, the lad can be completely bladdered quite legally.
I drank in my locals when I was 14/15 with the landlords knowledge. We did not draw attention to ourselves. We wanted to come back. With the clamp downs now where licensees dare not allow an under age drinker in, the kids then gather on the street corners, becoming a nuisance and with nobody keeping an eye on them. In my day the licensee would have said "You have had enough, home"
Pete I know what you mean about the Salford wives. I got one
fizzwheel
16-08-07, 09:38 AM
In my day the licensee would have said "You have had enough, home"
Yeah but they dont anymore do they, they've got profits and sales targets to maintain, turning customers away when they've had to much to drink doesnt fill the till up does it...
I know now when I've had enough and I stop, when I was 18 or 21 for that matter I didnt know what my limit was so I used to go past it.
I think TBH most kids are OK, they have to much to drink they fall over just like I did when I was that age. Theres a minority that just get hammered and cause trouble, the drinks not the cause of this, various other factors are in their life. But with the way things are now nobody tells them with any authority that what they are doing is wrong, so they carry on doing it.
I agree with Tim, I know alot of people who are around my age, who can't handle their drink, and drink till they make a complete a*se out of themselves, age has nothing to do with it.
IMHO
Ceri JC
16-08-07, 09:39 AM
Because their Police will kick the crap out of you if you misbehave. Most other countries don't have the liberal pinko left wing attitudes we've had breaking down society's morals for so long.
Indeed. I was out on the town with a mate from abroad the other night, we were stood on the corner debating where to go/what to do next. The lad starts looking really agitated and keeps on asking if we can just hurry up and go somewhere. I ask him what's the matter and he points out that the police have driven by twice and he doesn't want to get in trouble (all we were doing was stood on a street corner talking at about 2am) and possibly locked up and miss his flight! We understandably all fell about laughing and pointed out that the police over here are not like the police in most countries. :D
phil24_7
17-08-07, 11:49 PM
It is not pointless as the ban takes affect from when you can have a licence i.e. if you are banned then you can’t get a licence until 19!!
As for why the Europeans don’t have this problem, well IMO partly because they have not been taken over by the stupid pink and fluffy PC liberal brigade yet!! So their police don’t have a mountain of paperwork to do when arresting people, they are not restrained by the fact they have to ensure the prisoners rights are in place etc.
EU police will just beat you and nick you; ours have had their hands tied by the government too much so cant do their job as effectively! If our police were allowed to be a bit more hands on and deal with trouble makers more physically then it would put off these Yobs.
As for the age of drinking, in some parts of Europe its 14 and they serve it with your big Mac!! So the age or alcohol is not an argument to back up these claims of yobs. It’s the fact that our society is too soft on offenders and the police and justice system is all set up to be kind not discipline.
I have said it before and will say it again; to counter this problem we need to stop being so soft and re-introduce harder sentences, more hard police, national service, hanging, corporal punishment etc.
Why should prisoners have a cell to themselves with sky and a Xbox?? It should be a punishment with 4 to cell no luxury and only one hour out of the cell, to exercise.
Until we get rid of all the stupid PC and fluffiness in this country the problem will only get worse!!!
+1
My dad once got clobbered by a copper, when he got home he complained to his dad who then whacked him again and told him he must have deserved it!
northwind
18-08-07, 01:30 AM
Fact is, Britain's got a terrible drinking culture. Far too many people drink not socially, but just to get drunk. "What did you do at the weekend" in my office leads to 5 variants on "Got wrecked, can't remember a thing, sick as a dog" every week, and we're talking adults here. No wonder kids do the same. They're not doing it to be bad, or to rebel, they're doing it because that's what they want to do- it's the example we set and it's what they see. I've cut right down on my drinking in the last couple of years, and on any given night out I'm the weirdo for not being falling-over ****ed. Seems like we don't do moderation...
So is it actually illegal to smack your kid on the bum?????
No, not at all. But this fact won't stop people from banging on as if it were true :rolleyes:
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