Paranoia – or experience?

[Blue_SV650S]

Ok, my latest purchase came with a Michelin 2CT on it, not only do I hate Michelins, sure enough it was a French one that needed the recall …

In all fairness Michelin have set up a free-phone line. I called this and the nice lady on the other end ordered me a new tyre to my nearest dealer/fitter.

Now I have fitted my own tyres to my wheels for what must be 5 years now, its convenient, hassle free (no waiting or having to go to a tyre place ‘in hours’) and if I mark them it is my own fault … I can’t stand handing it over to the ‘pros’ and where they are changing tyres all day get pretty blasé and lets face it bored. So invariably; due to lack of care, take a big chunk out of them!! Especially the ones that are used to doing car steel wheels!! :rolleyes:

My new bike has OZ wheels too … so I don’t really want big chunks out of them!!! :cry:

Am I the only one that doesn’t like letting ‘the pros’ do stuff to their bike as they invariably c0ck it up?? - That is both annoying and more grief?!!?

[muffles]

Do you mean 'blase' (add the accent yourself ;) ) and 'paranoia'? :p

Anyway enough pedancy from me - is that a real word? - can't you just take the tyre away from the shop, thought they wouldn't mind since less work for them!

[Blue_SV650S]

Do you mean 'blase' (add the accent yourself ;) ) and 'paranoia'? :p

Anyway enough pedancy from me - is that a real word? - can't you just take the tyre away from the shop, thought they wouldn't mind since less work for them!

Oh my, 2 mistakes in as many mins!! see ... I got blasé and didn't proof read/spell-check :oops: :D ... I have corrected the blasé, but can't do the title :oops:

As for the tyre, perhaps, but as it is kinda a 'warranty' type thing, I should imagine Michelin would require it to be fitted by a shop?? :???:

The tyre they got in was actually not a 2CT, so I have left the wheel with them (no way was I gonna take the whole bike for them to **** that up too!! :D) I hope they do it OK!! [-o<

[Blue_SV650S]

That's a though ... not only do I not want them to c0ck it up, but I have just left about £1500 worth of wheel, discs and tyre with a complete stranger and with no receipt!!! :eek::eek:

Oh I am a worrier aren't I!! :D


Front wheel Pricelist (http://www.apriliayorkshire.co.uk/catalogue/partlist.jsp?Catalogo=%3D390Y&Tavola=%3D39&_NomeImmagine=41454699.gif&_bikename=RSV%201000%202000&_pagename=Front%20wheel%20RSV%20Mille)

[muffles]

As for the tyre, perhaps, but as it is kinda a 'warranty' type thing, I should imagine Michelin would require it to be fitted by a shop?? :???:

Is that what the shop said? It's under warranty for a manufacturing defect though. What if you wanted to keep the tyre for display in your house, not on a wheel? Is it their place to deny you that right? :lol:

This is just my opinion here ;) but I'd have thought the only thing Michelin would want is the old tyre, to prevent someone using it and the resultant lawsuits, etc...

[Blue_SV650S]

Is that what the shop said? It's under warranty for a manufacturing defect though. What if you wanted to keep the tyre for display in your house, not on a wheel? Is it their place to deny you that right? :lol:

This is just my opinion here ;) but I'd have thought the only thing Michelin would want is the old tyre, to prevent someone using it and the resultant lawsuits, etc...

Have to say it was my assumption ... I didn't want to just take a loose tyre and say 'hey swap that will ya' ... just seems a bit 'wrong'!! :D

But you are right, I probably could have done just that ...

Oh well, they have the wheel now ... correct tyre should be with them within 48hrs - so pinkies crossed I don't have to report back with a sob story of scratched up wheels where some 'fitter' has butchered it!! :D

[El Saxo]

If they're a professional then they should do a professional job. If they damage the wheel then they owe you a new one. That's the way I'd look at it. :smt102

[Dan]

Anyway enough pedancy from me - is that a real word?

No, but 'pedantry' is :rolleyes:

[Blue_SV650S]

If they're a professional then they should do a professional job. If they damage the wheel then they owe you a new one. That's the way I'd look at it. :smt102

Ahhh, but will they admit liability or just say 'it was like that before sir' ... as I have pointed out, the rim alone is over £800 to replace ... they are not going to admit to damaging that in any hurry ;)

Even if they are prepared to negotiate, its all grief – which I don’t need any more of!! :cry:

Basic fact is I just don't 'trust' the pros ... they just don't care, this has been proved to me time after time .. its just a job to them!! … I can relate to that so don’t blame them for their lack of personal loving care .. .

Anyway, when I do stuff to my bikes its with owners love/pride ... I care if I slightly damage something as … and I also make sure it is all done right as … well … it is mine and my life on the line if it is done incorrectly!!

[muffles]

No, but 'pedantry' is :rolleyes:

Ahahaha - that's the one!

[Ceri JC]

Basic fact is I just don't 'trust' the pros ... they just don't care, this has been proved to me time after time .. its just a job to them!! … I can relate to that so don’t blame them for their lack of personal loving care .. .

Anyway, when I do stuff to my bikes its with owners love/pride ... I care if I slightly damage something as … and I also make sure it is all done right as … well … it is mine and my life on the line if it is done incorrectly!!

Yep, this is my feeling on the matter. There isn't a single garage I've used where I've not had it back with something loose/not done correctly on a least one occasion. I wouldn't mind learning how to fit tyres myself. Any suggestions on how to go about this?

[rigor]

Yep, this is my feeling on the matter. There isn't a single garage I've used where I've not had it back with something loose/not done correctly on a least one occasion. I wouldn't mind learning how to fit tyres myself. Any suggestions on how to go about this?

Get down to Blue's house, he's got some old Oz Wheels knocking about that he'll let you practice on! :D :D

[Blue_SV650S]

Yep, this is my feeling on the matter. There isn't a single garage I've used where I've not had it back with something loose/not done correctly on a least one occasion. I wouldn't mind learning how to fit tyres myself. Any suggestions on how to go about this?

A spade, some tyre leavers an old pushbike inner tube, a double barrelled foot pump, some washing up liquid and some practice ;)

If you know where to push/hold the tyre as you are taking it off/putting it on, there is very little force needed at the leavers ... very little force obviously means little chance of damage to them soft rims!! ;)

I am so well practiced, I can do them now without a mark on them!! :)

And yes I did say a garden spade!! :o :D :D :D :D

[Tim in Belgium]

Can you balance them at home too?

[2mths]

I can't quote any figures as to accuracy but you can at least attempt to balance wheels yourself. You just need something to put the wheel on (to spin it) some chalk and some weights. Then it's effort and guesswork (though with experiance I think the amount of guesswork would reduce).

You spin the wheel and put a mark at the bottom of the tyre. Repeat several times and see if the marks are in teh same place. If so you need to add weight to the top part of the wheel. And repeat.

On a different matter - I'm a bit worried as apparently when my new tyres were fitted the bloke didn't put the spindle the whole way through when balancing the wheel. So I wasn't in the room (in office paying) so I don't know if it got done properly or not.

Back to the paranoid thing. I've not had that may sets of tyres changed. I have watched lots of sets get done though. A machine in itself shouldn't mark the wheels. It's all down to the operator. I have fitted a tyre on a machine myself once. It was a little scary but as it was only on a 125 I was more worried about not pinching the innertube than marking the rims. Sadly all the people I knew at the college have moved on so I can't use the kit there now that I could actually do with having access to it.

I have been wondering recently how much a 2nd hand fitting machine (& possibly balancing machine) would cost. I think it would be an interesting small business or club venture, just aiming to cover the cost of the machine over a period fo time.
Edit: I thought I'd answer my own question. Having had a quick look a tyre changing machine new could be had for something like £1300 + VAT.
Looking at the balancing side of things I saw a 'balancing jig' for £130. The intersting bit is that sounds like a sort of DIY guess it yourself job.
Next question in assessing viablity of this then is how easy\hard is it to get a trade account offering competitive prices.

[riktherider]

im the same when it comes to anything. car mechanics, mountainbike, motorbike, and even some DIY stuff i prefer doing my self. if you **** it up its your fault, and you know where you went wrong. learn from mistakes and dont do it again. buit if a mechanic has done it and goes wrong, your never quite sure what has happened and how to fix it.

[2mths]

im the same when it comes to anything. car mechanics, mountainbike, motorbike, and even some DIY stuff i prefer doing my self. if you **** it up its your fault, and you know where you went wrong. learn from mistakes and dont do it again. buit if a mechanic has done it and goes wrong, your never quite sure what has happened and how to fix it.

I agree with that. Sometimes though the cost\risk of the DIY option means it's better going to a pro though.

[ivantate]

I think about 50% of the professionals are just people doing it for the money. Usually will very little knowledge apart from quick fixes picked up of others.
I bought a new house and its a good job suzuki dont manufacture bikes in the same way or none of us would be here.

I took the 1000 for a service and tyres over here in Italy, (first time i have ever paid for a service on anything) to keep the warranty tiptop after my 650 gearbox issues and the guys were pretty good although I did watch the whole thing.
Biggest problem was explaining that i didnt want the knock on weights some brit professional had fitted but the stick on ones.

[melody]

Now I'm worried too:p:p

So basically, I'm damned if I can't sort my bike out and I'm damned if I take it in to the professionals.

I'm taking my bike in for its 15000mile service on Monday at which point I'd hoped I'd stop worrying about my chain snapping or falling off:p:p:p. I probably will, but then I'm guessing I'll start worrying my tyres will fall off and I'll die!!:smt010:smt010:smt010:smt010:smt010

[northwind]

You could take photos of the wheels first... Or, get them to sign a thing saying how good the condition is beforehand, like car rentals do? This'd antagonise them, I reckon, but then you're not a man that shies away from antagonising people ;)

I'd do it myself though, it's not brain surgery (for brain surgery you need longer levers). I'm not great at it, but I'm good enough (mainly, I'm a bit light and puny, the spade trick doesn't work for me and I have trouble with the second bead usually). So, I bought a cheap bead braker (£30) and one of those No-mar bars from America (about £70) and that makes it much easier than the usual tyre levers, even for a feeb. It just gives you so many more options- take-offs, tyre changes when you want (so if you do trackdays, it's more feasible to have 2 sets of tyres without needing 2 sets of wheels)... I like doing things on my timescales not the dealerships too.

[2mths]

Your chain and tyres are both pretty important. A failure of either could be damaging to your health. So it's wise to be concerned about them and a good idea to keep an eye on both.

Changing sprockets is easy enough, rivetting a new chain is a bit more of a concern. There aren't many people who fit their own tyres.

[Swiss]

Ok, my latest purchase came with a Michelin 2CT on it, not only do I hate Michelins, sure enough it was a French one that needed the recall …

In all fairness Michelin have set up a free-phone line. I called this and the nice lady on the other end ordered me a new tyre to my nearest dealer/fitter.

Now I have fitted my own tyres to my wheels for what must be 5 years now, its convenient, hassle free (no waiting or having to go to a tyre place ‘in hours’) and if I mark them it is my own fault … I can’t stand handing it over to the ‘pros’ and where they are changing tyres all day get pretty blasé and lets face it bored. So invariably; due to lack of care, take a big chunk out of them!! Especially the ones that are used to doing car steel wheels!! :rolleyes:

My new bike has OZ wheels too … so I don’t really want big chunks out of them!!! :cry:

Am I the only one that doesn’t like letting ‘the pros’ do stuff to their bike as they invariably c0ck it up?? - That is both annoying and more grief?!!?

That's the problem when you are perfect, you expect everbody else to be the same way.

[Blue_SV650S]

OK, to roll a few questions up into one, yep, I balance myself, just use the a wheel spindle and two stools – then as described by 2mths. I just duck-tape on old weights accordingly :)

The final result to know if you have done the job properly is that the wheel no longer comes to ‘rest’ in the same place every time, or takes so long to come to rest it makes no odds ;)

For all the DIY tools you need it is er … £10 for a pump, £10 for some leavers and that is it … presuming everyone owns a spade, some washing up liquid, some stools (large axel stands work too) and has a sacrificial old pushbike (or whatever) inner tube to help protect the rim.

Oh and I just picked loads of used/discarded wheel weights off the floor by the skip at my local Halfords :)

So for £20 you can change as many tyres as you want whenever you want!!!

I can assure you – you WILL get a sweat on doing it though!! :D

As for mechanics, yep if something falls off, I want to know it was MY fault not some 3rd party that I had actually PAID!! ;)

[Blue_SV650S]

That's the problem when you are perfect, you expect everbody else to be the same way.

:D Although that might be true, that is not in question here ...

I frustrate myself at times as I am prone to the odd c0ckup and screwdriver/spanner fumble, or tripping over something/klutz moment resulting in inadvertent damage, but at lest it is MY fault on MY stuff …

I can understand why these people make mistakes and don’t care as it is just a repetitive job to them and they are up against the clock doing it, I’d never expect them to be as careful as I would be with my own stuff ... I think it would be unfair to expect that …

As I can understand it I also EXPECT it … if you look at these apes at work you can see that my worst fears are borne out as they just fling wheels about ...

Like others have said, I have taken bikes to dealers before to have servicing done, and sure enough every time something isn’t done quite right … be it a fairing panel not quite clipped on right or the calliper bolt not tightened up!!! :o

[SV650Racer]

That's the problem when you are perfect, you expect everbody else to be the same way.


Funny Man...:cool:

[2mths]

I am not in the trade, nor am I a proficient mechanic.
However I did spend 3 years doing evening classes being taught by people who had been in the trade, were proficient and spent all day every day trying to teach the youth of today how to become mechanics (I should point out car & bike).
Discussions about proficiency in the trade (shortcuts used, who actually services the bike etc etc) came up every week. The prevailing message was that the kids (typically on day release) weren't terribly interested which meant they weren't terribly knowledgeable, in most cases they lacked common sense too. But yes they did do a lot of the jobs in the dealerships because they were cheap.
The evening student pass rate was about 95%. The day student pass rate was something terrible.
So as far as I'm concerned, There's no smoke without fire.
If you go somewhere where the person or people seem decent and genuine that's probably what you're going to get. If you go somewhere with a receptionist out front and then nameless and faceless people in the back doing the work then be prepared for the worst.

[muffles]

Same thing happened to me at a local tyre bay who 'specialise' in superbike tyres.
To cut a long story short, myself and a mate went halves on our own tyre fitting kit, and have never looked back. You need a bead breaker, ours is an Abba one which comes with tyre levers and rim protectors for about £75, a static balancer - Hein Gericke do a perfectly good one for under £30, and a compressor. I got a new 50 litre one off Ebay for £51. A bucket of tyre soap is £15 from M+P, and will last years, and I have never bought balance weights - most tyre bays will sling you a handful for nothing as long as you dont ask the boss!
Theres no rocket science to fitting tyres - I can do a pair, ride in ride out, in a hour tops. I charge my mates a fiver a wheel, just to cover consumables, and will do them late at night or whenever, so they can get to work in the morning, do a trackday etc.
The main plus is that we now buy all our tyres cheap on the net. The equipment has easily paid for itself, and all of our rims are scratch free!

This has got me tempted recently...

[SV650Racer]

If you go somewhere with a receptionist out front and then nameless and faceless people in the back doing the work then be prepared for the worst.


Quite a funny quote that!. I am sure Steve would love to be told that because he spends all day working in the workshop whilst service reception do their job that he isnt as good as someone who can work on a bike at the same time as someone who can answer the phone:D

[Swiss]

Funny Man...:cool:

It's an affliction that have to live with as well as the being perfect thing ;)

[2mths]

Quite a funny quote that!. I am sure Steve would love to be told that because he spends all day working in the workshop whilst service reception do their job that he isnt as good as someone who can work on a bike at the same time as someone who can answer the phone:D

I was pretty sure I'd get picked up on that. I am happy to be criticised about it. I could phrased it better.

What I was trying to say is that if you can't see anything - you've got nothing to go on and so you can't really tell what's going on.

It's also a generalisation and that's bad. I do intend to be visiting a certain dealership at some point to get my bike mapped. I'll expect a complimentary kicking.

[SV650Racer]

It's an affliction that we have to live with as well as the being perfect thing ;)

quote edited to perfection:D

[Swiss]

Lol

[SV650Racer]

I was pretty sure I'd get picked up on that. I am happy to be criticised about it. I could phrased it better.

What I was trying to say is that if you can't see anything - you've got nothing to go on and so you can't really tell what's going on.

It's also a generalisation and that's bad. I do intend to be visiting a certain dealership at some point to get my bike mapped. I'll expect a complimentary kicking.

Tis ok...we cant all be perfect all the time...(sic:smt098



<titter titter>


sorry just lightening the mood:smt021

[stuartyboy]

Am I the only one that doesn’t like letting ‘the pros’ do stuff to their bike as they invariably c0ck it up?? - That is both annoying and more grief?!!?

I don't think a one sided post like this is very fair to other dealers. Particularly - in defence of Strathearn Tyres in Crieff...they've always done my tyres and they are first class. I've never known anyone to say a bad word about them ever. They are all bikers who do all the fitting. They know their stuff, prices are great and give excellent advice. Nothings too much trouble for them. The majority of Scottish bikers I have ever known use them. Every dealer I've ever spoke to recommends them and they are recommended on dozens of forums.

I'm sure there are numerous good places down south that do just as good a job.

[northwind]

I've never known anyone to say a bad word about them ever. They are all bikers who do all the fitting.

I think they forgot to bolt CC's wheel back up once, he turned up at mine to borrow a spanner ;)

[Blue_SV650S]

I think they forgot to bolt CC's wheel back up once, he turned up at mine to borrow a spanner ;)

Mistakes happen, no one is infallible!! ;) Speak to enough people and EVERY dealer/tyre place is sure to have a disgruntled customer somewhere along the lines ... as humans are involved, I can't see it is possible for this to ever NOT be the case?!?!!? But there will be some places where the error rate is lower than others!

I just seem to always be the poor sap that 'makes the numbers' :cry: ... just lucky I guess!!! :D

For this reason I shy away from pros if I can. As I said before I am not infallible either, but at least it is my bike etc and as I am not doing it all day every day probably pay more attention to the individual job in hand???

It dies seem there are several people like me that don't trust the pros though, so I am not a complete paranoid freakazoid!!! :D