IAM or other advanced skills?

[Hockeynut]

Been riding for about 4 months now (well as much as is possible in this horrible summer) and have stared thinking about taking some more training. I was looking at IM initially, but have read mixed things about inconsitency etc. Then I also heard about RoSPA which many claimed was better.

I was wondering any of you had any advice on this?

Am I also right in thinking that these are like biking clubs/groups aswell, or am I confusing that?

Btw, I'll be doing this somewhere near Nottingham or Derby if possible.

Thanks.

PS. This was the Nottingham group I was going to contact re IAM.

[Captain Nemo]

from what ive seen of the IAM they go out of theyre way to be consistent, theres an odd attitude amongst some riders who think that theyve nothing to learn from the IAM, after all how could they , the IAM plod along at sub legal speeds after all...........

the skills that IAM, rospa and the like teach are skill that youll use at all speeds, after all no matter how much you like to blat around, realistically how often are you caning it???

if youve only been riding a few months im pretty sure that youll learn tons , even very experienced riders can learn new stuff...........

get in touch with your local IAM group, im sure youll find theyre approachable and keen to help you develop your budding skills............

[Luckypants]

+1

If there is one in your area, try a BikeSafe course first. These are a good introduction to more advanced road riding techniques. IAM / RoSPA wil follow on from this and are often run by the same observers.

[Mogs]

Do it!

It took me ages to unlearn all my bad habits, best to do it before you pick any up.

Most of the IAM groups will give you a "free" observed assessment ride. They may or maynot give you any pointers there and then, although if you're consistantly doing something stupid you can expect to be informed.

This will also give you the chance to assess them and whether you fit in. If you can't get on with one group don't give up, try another.

The IAM is more a franchise operation of small clubs that elect to abide by the IAM rules and share its aims. The Observed Rides and getting people to pass the test is the main aim.

Once you have passed, you are invited to join the group as a full member. Membership usually involves social meets, charity raising etc. IAM members often get a significant discount on their insurance. Local groups may have arranged discounts with local bike and accessory dealers.

On a purely financial take, it would probably take a long while to balance the cost, but overall you will be a better, more confident rider.

As for never riding at the speed limit, ask Valleyboy he was pushed to stay with us, we didn't speed. Making good progress and speeding are not the same.

The perception of the IAM as Pipe and Slippers brigade is a myth perpetuated by those riders that think they're gods gift, but daren't risk failing a test.

Although there is a high proportion of Pan's etc. Someone has to carry the sandwiches :)

I'm not sure but I believe the RoSPA run on the same lines.

Good Luck

[andyb]

I joined an IAM group after much though (I'm 24) and yep my observer had a Harley and a BMW so he was the stereotypical IAM observer. He was one of the nicest people I have met who couldnt do enough to help me, he was very knowledgeable (?sp) and could leave me eating his dust whenever he felt like it. I've never seen a BMW being ridden so fast but made to look so easy....I'd say go for it. He had many stories of him and his mate (who was the club secretary) doing many hundred mile a day rides just for fun.

[markmoto]

I did a honda mac course years ago and i learnt so much about observation and hazard awareness i still use the skills today, the guy was brilliant he was an ex motorcycle policeman and riding a pan euro but as andyB said they can leave you for dead and its freaky how easy they ride no hanging off nothing like that just sitting bolt upright lol.
He told us about this story when he was out on a lesson with this guy who kept leaning off as if doing a motogp so he showed him it realy wasnt nessasary by crushing past him bolt upright with easy lol, what a star.

[Stu]

I was under the impression that Rospa was expensive.
But it can't get much cheaper than free! - which is what it is. (£53 test fee & £20 annual membership on top of free tuition)

[simonthepost]

Am doing the IAM course at the minute, it's improving my riding everytime i go out with my observer, well worth it in my opinion

[Korben]

Try Shires Motorcycle Training http://www.shiresmt.com/

Did my DAS with them and I thought they were great. Very professional and helpful. I was really struggling on my DAS with my U-turn and they helped me until I got it. They have sites in Derby and Notts.

I think they do advanced teaching, although I am not sure levels.

EDIT: Just looked through site, and they do IAM and RoSPA, and Roadcraft (Derbyshire Bike Plus)

[booner]

Like simonthepost, I too am currently doing my IAM and again, like simonthepost, I feel that everytime I go out with my observer (rides both a GSX 1400 and a Ducati - which is cool and counters the pipe and slippers argument) that I improve and learn something new/better.

My advice, get out there and do it. You don't have to do your test and you're free to learn in the timeframe that suits you best (allowing you to work around work commitments etc).

Also, as previously mentioned by mogs, you could always go along for a FoC observation and take it from there.

Whatever happens and whatever form of advanced riding you decide on, you will see huge benefits and if the skills you have learnt one day saves your life, it's a exercise that can't be given a price tag!

[SV Muppet]

Most of the IAM groups seem to charge around £85.00 to join initially; but this includes group membership, IAM membership, IAM test fee, a copy of "Pass your Advanced Motorcycle Test", and a copy of the Highway Code. You then make a recommended donation of £5 to your observer per run.
This represents excellent value for money; Expert training in any subject usually costs a great deal more but these people do it for the love of biking and a desire to make people safer.
And, to boot, you'll find some new biking buddies to meet up with at weekends.

[booner]

On the 'contribution' front - I pay nothing although do offer to pay a token for fuel (a few quid). It is at the discretion of your observer as to whether they actually take money from you (at least that's how it is in West Yorkshire IAM).

Even if it is a couple of quid each time, I feel it's excellent value for coins!

[SVeeedy Gonzales]

RoSPA and IAM are very similar but disagree on a few points.

Within RoSPA and IAM you'll also find individuals who have their own opinions on speeding, overtaking, etc.

Ultimately it doesn't matter what you do, they'll all make you a better rider. It's junk to claim that one is better than the other, many people do both as they hone slightly different areas of skill better.

I did IAM for a year and picked up loads though packed it in before I got to test stage as it was too much time to give up.

Off road days are good too - very handy for getting used to feeling the bike slide around. Snow and wet manhole covers become just a bit risky and not the end of the world.

[bimota_stroker]

I agree with all thats gone before, both IAM and ROSPA will improve your riding (at whatever speed you choose to go) and are excellent value for money.
I can also recommend http://www.rapidtraining.co.uk/e/home.htm for a one day intensive introduction to advanced riding techniques. I have used them a number of times and have learnt loads every time (not to mention having a load of fun too).

[Sudoxe]

I've done a few days 1 to 1 training with a RoSPA trainer. Although it was as expencive as normal motorcycle (or i guess car training). I found it was very worth while.

With one to one training you can say specifically what you would like help with and the instructor can taylor the lesson to that, and also point out any bad habbits you may have.

I did mine with a guy called Steve who runs http://www.freedomridertraining.com/

Well worth the money, and I do intend to do some more sessions when I get the time and money to do it.

Dan

[hawkeye]

I did my IAM course after a 8 year break from biking. It's one of the best £85 I've ever spent, (although you did have to buy the observer a brew every week!) It made me a much safer rider BUT also a much faster rider, particularly in the twisties. Yes they do stick to the speed limits, (isn't that what they're there for?), but in the nationals, on the ride-outs, they take some keeping up with.

[Caddy2000]

I belong to the Essex Advanced Motorcycle Group, which is no longer affiliated to the IAM. I've passed my IAM recently, and loved every moment of it. It is amazing how much I have learnt....
.... BUT I have not finished learning!
The IAM is great, but it is not the be all and end all!
IAM groups will only be able to teach you the IAM syllabus, which is not that comprehensive!
It's a great thing to work towards, but at the end of the day it is the people that you learn off that will challenge you and change the way you ride.
My (not so humble) advice: Find out what groups are near you and find one that works for you, and see if they offer anything other training other than IAM (slow ride days, full member training days, etc).
One thing for sure, you will enjoy it! :cool:

[scarlett]

My friend has just done the IAM course and passed, with the Nottingham branch.

It has done wonders for her riding, and she has nothing to praise for the Nottingham team. She says they are very well organised and are really dedicated.

[plowsie]

Down to me breaking down last night, was chatting to the recovery driver as he was an ex instructor and told me how he did advanceed after being an instructor and still learnt a lot. He told me the best are the IAM or ROSPA(not sure on terminology), IAM was an advanced course and you would come out of it to say you have done it, Rospa on the other hand was a 2 or 3 year then you have to do it again and that there are levels to it, bronze, silver and gold, this is what i think he told me :rolleyes:

[G]

Try Shires Motorcycle Training http://www.shiresmt.com/

Did my DAS with them and I thought they were great. Very professional and helpful. I was really struggling on my DAS with my U-turn and they helped me until I got it. They have sites in Derby and Notts.

I think they do advanced teaching, although I am not sure levels.

EDIT: Just looked through site, and they do IAM and RoSPA, and Roadcraft (Derbyshire Bike Plus)

and

My friend has just done the IAM course and passed, with the Nottingham branch.

It has done wonders for her riding, and she has nothing to praise for the Nottingham team. She says they are very well organised and are really dedicated.

I can also 3rd this....I did my DAS with Shires as my girlfriends dad works there.

I got out with him now and then doing advanced riding techniques etc and its amazing the difference they make...........you can ride MUCH MUCH quicker without necessarily speeding.

If you go, and get Ash or Colin they are both great......I also did my CBT there with Dean who is a damn nice bloke.

[Ceri JC]

I don't know if it's a factor for you, but from what I've heard, IAM is the cheapest advanced training (in terms of cost/hour/mile) by a long way. IAM is very good, but I cannot help but feel it would benefit massively from covering filtering. To me, this is one of the most crucial (main puprpose of me using a bike for work), dangerous and most often cocked up/misjudged facets of riding. Neglecting to teach people it simply because it is dangerous and of questionable legality* is borderline negligent in my view, as I don't know any IAM riders/observers who don't do it away from IAM. I was chatting with a lad who did his test in London and apparently there filtering is focused on a lot and you have to do it in your test. On mine, I was advised not unless the traffic is <10mph and even then overtake at only 2-5mph quicker than the cars and be sure they have seen you/wait for them to move over. Again, questions of consistency amongst groups arise, but as someone else mentioned, it's basically a franchise of smaller clubs/riding groups with their own interpretations of the rules... Still that's just my big gripe and like most organisations, you'd be hard pressed to find any individual (bar the odd zealot) who agrees with all aspects of the org's policies/practices. This is just my pet moan. :)

As Mogs says, the idea of them being slow is wildly inaccurate. They are on the whole quicker on most roads than most weekend warriors and only on the motorways/straight bits of dual carriageway does the slow pace really grate. I most confess, initially (even after commencing my training) I fell into the camp of "it's 20mph slower than I ride normally, so of questionable relevance", but have come to realise that like most skills, doing it slowly and focusing on quality does actually allow you to get faster (even without realising it) whilst still maintaing the vast majority of the quality you had when doing it slower. I still do 90 on country NSLs (away from IAM) with reasonable regularity, but now I feel pretty much as relaxed as at 60, whereas before doing 90 I was pushing my limits and making far more mistakes. As an aside, once you've passed your test, the 'social' rides you go on, where the rules are relaxed a bit are the quickest group rides I've ever participated in, often far quicker (point to point, rather than top speed) than thrashes with groups on full on sportsbikes.

* Yes, lets not get into semantics, the fact it's so often deemed 50:50 in a prang, would imply it's not exactly "yes, it's perfectly legal", even though I happily/regularly do it in front of police.

[Hockeynut]

Just got back off holiday (wasn't being rude not replying) and read all these replies, thanks everyone for all you advice!

I will look into the Nottinghamshire IAM groups.

[Hockeynut]

Ended up doing Bikesafe aftenoon with Lincs on saturday just gone.


It started with 1 hour chat, some video demonstrations and discussion. Then about a 2 hour observed ride, stopping every 10 or so miles to talk about the last 10 miles, the good and bad. Mostly it's about positioning and observation rather than technique and the like.

I came away thinking that I hadn't learnt much, until I started riding home.....

Then I realised how much more confident I felt and how much better at cornering I was, and how much safer I felt! It was worth every penny in the £35 charge for it. Feel a lot better and I'll be off to my local IAM soon I think. :)


Bikesafe = Highly recommended by me. :D

[G]

Nice one :cool:

[Stu]

but I cannot help but feel it would benefit massively from covering filtering. .
I was taught filtering on an observed ride. i.e. the observer took me down the M3 onto the M25 so I filtered at 40 mph through moving traffic, the observer was happy.*
In my test, the examiner made reference to the fact that riding a Pan, he wouldn't be able to keep up with me on my ZX7R filtering but to go ahead and do it anyway with some consideration to letting him catch up. So I did & probably could have failed for lack of progress if I hadn't (although IIRC it was mostly filtering to the front of traffic queues, so probably not exactly what you meant)

*The observer asked me afterwards what speed I would be happy to filter at, I said 90 which he didn't think was a great idea.

[Ceri JC]

I was taught filtering on an observed ride. i.e. the observer took me down the M3 onto the M25 so I filtered at 40 mph through moving traffic, the observer was happy.*
In my test, the examiner made reference to the fact that riding a Pan, he wouldn't be able to keep up with me on my ZX7R filtering but to go ahead and do it anyway with some consideration to letting him catch up. So I did & probably could have failed for lack of progress if I hadn't (although IIRC it was mostly filtering to the front of traffic queues, so probably not exactly what you meant)

*The observer asked me afterwards what speed I would be happy to filter at, I said 90 which he didn't think was a great idea.

I know different groups on this have different policies on the matter. One of our lads did his test in london before moving here and he said not only was he taught it, but it was given a great deal of focus (because it can be so dangerous) and he was required to do it in his test. Our local lot don't like it (although they all admit to doing it away from IAM). Probably stems from the local bike examiner not being fond of it, he reckons no quicker than walking pace and only if the car has definately seen you/moved over to let you by. I ended up slow controlling at 2mph for about 4 minutes instead. Afterwards he said he liked my slow control!