ABS questions.

[Mossy]

after 2 offs due to heavy braking from, it must be said, an unskilled hand im looking into a bike with ABS.

the story so far:
my 125 that i had 2 years trouble free from, with just 1 off due to my own stupidity and a disc lock, i went onto the sv with great anticipation. now the brakes on my 125 are anything but sharp infact i can near enough pull the lever right into the handle bar, due to a combination of a thinish disk and thin standard pads (the pads dont come with a lot of brake material on them to start with) even though the fluid has been bled and put in properly after a front caliper referb.

now going onto the sv after passing my test in april sometime was a blessing, a lot more fun than about 11bhp. i was getting used to everything, the power, braking and even the seating position, 1st day on it, in heavy rain under heavy braking from a lemming walking out in front of me with a combination of these factors and the fact there was horse crap on the road i had an off at bout 15 mph with minimal damage to the bike and a grazed and bruised knee for me.

the second off came from a car slamming on in front of me, i slammed on and i ended up in the back of her due to the front wheel locking up at about 15 mph again. now that the bikes looking pretty banged up (forks bent, fairing broken, headlight smashed etc etc) im looking to fix it up and sell it on.

now to the crooks of the matter. im convinced that the fact that ive had both these offs because of the fact that i could put so much braking power on my 125 without it complaining but now with the infinitely better brakes on the sv the front wheel will lock up every time i do an emergency stop due to not being able to get used to the brakes properly. due to this flaw in my skill level im looking into a bandit 650 sa with abs.

what do people think of the bandit 650 sa? what do people think of ABS? and also ive heard rumours of an abs sv650 coming out with abs now whether this is true or not i dont know but would be interested!!

sorry for the long message and thanks for your help in advance!

stephen

[SV225]

Try practicing emergency stops when riding around empty roads to get a better feel for things. Personally, I'd rather put my trust in my own skill when it's needed than rely on a computer to do things.

[Mossy]

Try practicing emergency stops when riding around empty roads to get a better feel for things. Personally, I'd rather put my trust in my own skill when it's needed than rely on a computer to do things.

thats what im trying to say though, after all the practicing and stuff, i dont know about you, but i'de still panic and put the brakes on too hard like i would on the 125. its a case of its better to have it an not need it than need it and not have it kinda thing

[Biker Biggles]

As well as practice at the emergency stop stuff you could try a bit of advanced tuition to help prevent those situations developing in the first place.Observational skills are everything on a bike,and no amount of technology will keep you out of trouble if you don't develop them.My guess is that you are over reliant on the brakes,and a bigger safety gap and better forward vision would solve your problem.

[ASM-Forever]

I think once you have the technique you will be fine!

Remember to use the rear brake, even if its just a touch.

Also resist the impulse to grab a fist full of front....progressively squeeze it and assuming your braking distances are adequate, you will be fine.

[Stu]

I'm sure it's not quite grab and forget like ABS on a car, But it will be better than anything you can do with non ABS brakes. I would love to have it, but I haven't restricted my bike choice to get it, if you can I would say go for it.
THe American market 2007 SV650 has ABS http://www.sportrider.com/bikes/2007/146_0611_2007_suzuki_sv650s_abs/
so hopefully it will come here next year?

[Mossy]

well the 2nd off was in slow moving traffic when someone pulled out on the car infront of me, thus why they slammed on, and in them situations when u just have to act when u have about 10 foot at 15 mph when you dont expect any1 to have the need of slamming on completely, i just panicked and slammed on with both brakes so knew str8 away i was gonna hit her. but hopefully it will come over to Britain ye stu!

so what does any1 think of tha bandit 650? any1 know any1 who has one or anything?

[philbut]

I'd agree that with a bit of practice, you should sort that pannic front break grab out. From the sounds of the second off though, you might have been traveling a bit close (don't know obviously). I've done it myself in the car when someone stopped unexpectedly. Don't assume everyone else is a good driver so leave a bit more room than you think you need, particularly in town on a wet / new road. The fact you actually hit the car probably means that no amount of break control could have stopped you on time.

Hope you get the bike sorted anyway. Maybe think about going on a further training course. I think RIDE are running some track courses designed to improve on road skills, and they cover stuff like breaking in a safe environment.

[Dan]

well the 2nd off was in slow moving traffic when someone pulled out on the car infront of me, thus why they slammed on, and in them situations when u just have to act when u have about 10 foot at 15 mph when you dont expect any1 to have the need of slamming on completely, i just panicked and slammed on with both brakes so knew str8 away i was gonna hit her. but hopefully it will come over to Britain ye stu!

so what does any1 think of tha bandit 650? any1 know any1 who has one or anything?

I think Biggles hit the nail on the head with advanced training, and better observation. 10 feet at 15mph is too close. Braking distance from 20mph is highway coded at 40 feet, and I know damn well the SV's brakes aren't the sharpest in the world, so err on the side of caution.

There will come times when you need to hit the brakes hard, but you need to make sure you give yourself at least a fighting chance of stopping, which it sounds like you just didn't have in the case above.

[Mossy]

thanks for the tips guys, will look into that advanced training course beacuse that will lower my insurance aswel wont it, how much does that cost? it probably wasnt 15mph, cos we had only just started moving thats like a worst case scenario, i may have hit some gravel i dont know because it was near the central reservation. but will deffinately look into that

[ASM-Forever]

'Only a fool breaks the 2 second rule'

Thats my final useless piece of input :)

[sarah]

'Only a fool breaks the 2 second rule'

Thats my final useless piece of input :)

go and do some revison

[Luckypants]

I have ABS on the Viffer. We had this discussion quite recently...

My view is that you need to practice braking smoothly but aggressively in order to get the max from your brakes. The ABS is only there when all else fails. It certainly is not 'fire and forget' like a car as the ABS pulsing upsets the bike somewhat. There is no doubt that good technique is superior to the ABS in out and out stopping power.

however as a safety net, the ABS is useful to avoid wheel locks on greasy roads / gravel etc. You still need to feather the brakes to rcvoer from the ABS 'judder' as you would from a slide, just you get more of a chance to do it.

HTH

[Mossy]

i know i need the practice of course its just the fact that i need that for now while i do get used to the better brakes simply because if i do need to stop quick that will hopefully stop me from locking the front wheel, its a confidence issue

[ASM-Forever]

i know i need the practice of course its just the fact that i need that for now while i do get used to the better brakes simply because if i do need to stop quick that will hopefully stop me from locking the front wheel, its a confidence issue

Imagine what would happen if you rode a sportsbike. Now those brakes have bite :cool:

[ASM-Forever]

go and do some revison

Yes mum :rolleyes:

[Pedrosa]

Experience and practice will I am sure see you right. I like the sound of the extra safety provided by ABS although I hasten to add that I have no real desire to own a bike that has it. It's not me being afraid of progress, but more that I prefer to trust my own judgement and application of the brakes.:rolleyes:

[Mossy]

Imagine what would happen if you rode a sportsbike. Now those brakes have bite :cool:

thats why i dont want a supersport for a good while yet :P

Experience and practice will I am sure see you right. I like the sound of the extra safety provided by ABS although I hasten to add that I have no real desire to own a bike that has it. It's not me being afraid of progress, but more that I prefer to trust my own judgement and application of the brakes.:rolleyes:

i see what your meaning but like i say its such a different machine to everything from my 125 that im getting used to everything else so 1 less thing to worry about would be a good thing. i got into bad habits on my 125 that i found out i cant carry over onto the sv and i need 2 start on the learning curve.

what would anyone else do? fix up the sv sell it on and get somethin with ABS? or stick with the sv, save money and just get to grips with it even if family and girlfriend aint too happy with it at all? lol

[Dan]

what would anyone else do? fix up the sv sell it on and get somethin with ABS? or stick with the sv, save money and just get to grips with it even if family and girlfriend aint too happy with it at all? lol

Most problems aren't solved by throwing money at them. My 2p.

[Keith1983]

I don't think a bandit is the answer after all and I don't mean this disrespectfully but if the brakes on the sv are causing you trouble then the extra power of the bandit may cause you bigger troubles?

Stick with it fella, the first time I jumped on my old sv, bearing in mind it was well down on BHP due to the bad state it was in, the speed of it scared the living daylights out of me, a year or so later and I now have a brand new Svs sport and Im loving it

It osunds like, and this is only my opinion, that you need to be looking further ahead of yourself when riding and try to predict and foresee sticky situations?

[the_lone_wolf]

It osunds like, and this is only my opinion, that you need to be looking further ahead of yourself when riding and try to predict and foresee sticky situations?

what he said^^^

without wanting to be presumptuous, 2 years on a 125 and then an SV would say to me that you're 19? if not please don't be offended, but there's so much more to using the road than just you and your machine, and time spent driving/riding is the best way to get into the rhythm of having to compensate for the other idiots around you, and those who aren't paying attention. think to yourself things like "if that car suddenly stops can i stop behind it?" - if you drive into the car in front it's because you were too close, nothing to do with the guy braking too hard... i know, as i've come close to it many times myself, even on the bike (too busy nodding to the guy going the other way, either missed the signal or he made it late for the guy pulling into the petrol station, handful of brake and kept it upright with a foot or so to spare, if i'd been riding 12" closer at the time i'd have had my first accident on the road)

if it weren't for the six years i'd spend driving i'd have come a cropper on the bike several times already, but as it was i could spot the situations and adjust my speed/course accordingly. if you're not too sure of the power of the brakes then just give yourself time to stop more gently, leave a larger gap, slow down a little earlier before the bend and you'll have more time to think about what's going on around you and won't have to grab at the stoppers at the last minute, plus there's nothing more satisfying then to spot something early and avoid a conflict because of it

perhaps try and get a ride on a bikesafe day, my (car) driving instructor was a Class 1 police driver and he could spot situations developing a mile away - once you see what they see you'll realise just how much you can miss if you're not looking for it:cool:

[CB1ROCKET]

A lot of this sounds, and trying not to be rude, is that there is lack of road observation / anticipation. Like some of the others said, I would suggest sticking with the SV and learn from your errors. Ideally do an advanced riding course as these are highly helpful plus get some more miles under the belt.

The only way to progress is the old saying that goes “Practice makes perfect"

[northwind]

I'm a fan of ABS for bikes, at least, ABS that isn't rubbish. What finally convinced me was the TWO magazine test with James Whitham and a reader on Triumph Sprints in the wet- from 60mph Whitham did manage to stop faster without ABS than with, but only by about 4 feet. The reader, on the other hand, stopped about 30 feet later without the ABS, but more importantly when he used the ABS bike he stopped within about 5 feet of Whitham's ABS stop. And Whit's better on the brakes than most people I reckon ;) That's a big difference and an immense leveller.

Then, remember this was all planned stops- anyone who thinks they'll perform a perfect stop using the maximum possible braking in all conditions no matter how little warning they get is, if you ask me, delusional.

Still, I wouldn't chop in my bike to get one with ABS, or choose a particular bike just because it has the option. And it's not a substitute for ability IMO.

[AndyW]

Had ABS on my car for 7+ years, its only ever kicked in once, middle of one winter, slowing down to turn in to work car park at about 15 mph and ice in the middle of the road.
I'd prefer it, but if thats typical, then it won't ever get used.

[2mths]

I can understand a little the difference between riding a 125 & the SV (see my sig). But I don't know someone would manage to lock the front up unless just grabbing a huge handfull and or poor conditions.

I've locked the front on the SV just once 'practising' harder braking (because I'm a bit of a ninny on the brakes) and I went over a defect in the road and left a 10 foot trail of rubber (nearly followed by a brown trail). Fortunately it was in the dry and a straight line so all ended well.

If I were commuting and or riding in poor conditions more frequently then I would look towards riding something with ABS, just because sh*t does happen and the average rider (me) can benefit from some help if on cold tyres, in the wet, someone jumps a light or similar.

If it were me in the situation originally posted then I think I'd persevere with the SV (damage is already done) and having a good look and think about my riding.

[northwind]

But I don't know someone would manage to lock the front up unless just grabbing a huge handfull and or poor conditions.


That's not the only thing it does though, loads of people consistently underbrake because they're afraid of locking up, or don't understand how much grip they really have, or because they've grabbed handfuls in the past and don't realise how much difference it makes when you do it right.

[Smudge]

yep what they said, you've got to expect people to slam on in front of you and kids to run out behind parked cars call me paranoid but i haven't had an incident since i was 17, didn't think of consequences then just how do i look in that shop window and how fast can i take this corner.

[sinbad]

I'm a fan of ABS for bikes, at least, ABS that isn't rubbish. What finally convinced me was the TWO magazine test with James Whitham and a reader on Triumph Sprints in the wet- from 60mph Whitham did manage to stop faster without ABS than with, but only by about 4 feet. The reader, on the other hand, stopped about 30 feet later without the ABS, but more importantly when he used the ABS bike he stopped within about 5 feet of Whitham's ABS stop. And Whit's better on the brakes than most people I reckon ;) That's a big difference and an immense leveller.

Then, remember this was all planned stops- anyone who thinks they'll perform a perfect stop using the maximum possible braking in all conditions no matter how little warning they get is, if you ask me, delusional.

Still, I wouldn't chop in my bike to get one with ABS, or choose a particular bike just because it has the option. And it's not a substitute for ability IMO.

Good post. I also don't particularly want to restrict my bike choice to those with ABS, but if I had a switch on my SV for ABS on/off it would certainly be set to ON a lot of the time.

I think we'd see more bikes already with it if it had an on/off switch, but I don't think it's something the manufacturers are allowed to do is it?

[Smudge]

i would prefer to be incharge of my own braking ABS isnt going to stop you coming off if you brake whilst cornering or in the rain it just stops the wheels locking up

[2mths]

I think the reason we don't see it is simply a lack of demand. Not many people want it, or put another way not many people want it enough to pay extra for it. But as with everything over time more units get sold, development gets done, costs lower and so you see it in more and more places.

[2mths]

ABS isnt going to stop you coming off if you brake whilst cornering or in the rain it just stops the wheels locking up

?

Generally speaking is it not when the wheels locks up that people come off.

[Daimo]

I have ABS on the Bandito, and for commuting and on oil covered city roads it really does inspire confidence.

Only issue is that if your on the brakes and hit a slippery bit (small drain or something), the ABS comes on, and its like a car. The lever pushes its way back out again, and the bike doesn't seem to brake, its quite scarey when it comes on. I don't like the ABS on the back brake though. On the front, it really does help. I always fealt nervous on my SV in the wet in the city, like the front wanted to tuck under me (and it did once and spat me off). That was using the rear, and natural reaction if apply too much front brake.

Its a weird system, and does scare the hell out of you when your braking mildly and all of a sudden it comes on, and you stop braking for a second, but overally, i'd say its a very good system. A good safty device.

Id HATE it on some form of a track day though :lol:

[Daimo]

As for cars and ABS, if your not near the ABS cutting in, your not braking hard enough ;)

[Smudge]

every time ive come off hasnt been through braking its been through slipping off corners, you can still skid to a certian extent with ABS i had it on my last bike it just pumped the brakes so not to lock up totaly but i could still skid.

[Daimo]

I can assure you you cannot skid on my bike, i've tried various ways. ABS doesn't sound like it was working properly on yours.

You've come off through cornering, i've read many reports on here how too much front end and it stepping underneath them has happened. With ABS, this stops this happening as the front wont tuck under you, its kept in a straight line and doesn't lock up at all, hence the ANTI LOCK Braking part.

If you could lock up a wheel on your ABS, it wasn't very good or wasn't working properly.

[northwind]

i would prefer to be incharge of my own braking ABS isnt going to stop you coming off if you brake whilst cornering or in the rain it just stops the wheels locking up

Why do you come off in the rain on the brakes, if not because you've locked the wheels :confused: It's effective in corners too, doesn't stop the bike from standing up of course but a competent rider plans for that.

[Smudge]

coming off on the corners wasnt down to dodgy ABS as the bike didnt have it, i wasnt braking just going too fast and the last time it happened was 17 years ago when i was learning how far i could push my rd350. the bike that i had with ABS was a BMW think it was the first time they was messin with ABS.