View Full Version : Biking..........Racially Exclusive?
Firstly, apologies for the rubbish title. It's the closest I could get to what this thread is about without being about 30 words long.
This is something that Pete and I have often pondered about, but it's taken me a while to figure out how to ask the question so it makes sense.
Apart from our mate Gots, and the half-dozen or so people we know from Org, I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of bikers we have seen at countless meets, rallies and events who are not.............and I'll use a designation often found on official documents here...........white caucasian.
This is probably less than 1% of 1% of all the bikers we've seen and yet according to the 2001 census the population in the UK of............as they describe them..............'ethnic minorites' is 7.9%
So why do so few of them, apparently, ride bikes?
Is it because biking is still perceived by them as a bastion of the white, anglo-saxon male?
Is it a cultural thing? Is biking somehow seen as 'not quite the thing'?
Is it because some who have tried have met racism and given up?
I'd genuinely like to know people's thoughts on this, and if any of our American or European members read this, I'd be interested to know if there is a similar pattern in their country.
Finally, I have tried really hard to write this in a way that won't cause offence. That is honestly not my intention.
I think "exclusive" is the wrong word to use. Nobody is excluded from anything in the motorcycle world as far as I can see. Money is more important. If someone has money to spend on training/equipment/license/bike then it doesn't matter what they look like at all.
Edit: Not that it would matter if it were free!
CoolGirl
23-08-07, 05:53 PM
Lots of 'brown' bikers in London. Even professionals such at the Met, paramedics, spatchers etc.
Although I have to admit that I've never ever seen another female rider of asian descent in this country. Women ride small bikes and scooters in Asia tho.
Bluepete
23-08-07, 05:57 PM
I know exactly what you mean, and have wondered the same myself.
I can't answer your questions though, maybe 'cos I came to bikeing at a relatively gentlemanly age (34) or 'cos I don't think about it, because it doesn't matter to me. Dunno really........
I do know that one of my bikeing hero's is a Sgt a work, Sid Rasheed, Asian, about 6"4', been bikeing all his life, joined the cops in the '70's which was brave enough as it is! He rides like a demon at work and on his own R1. Helped me a huge amount when I joined traffic and got my SV.
Oh, and no offence could be taken at your well thought out and well written post.
Pete.
the white rabbit
23-08-07, 06:12 PM
Plenty of ginger's tho :smt119
Plenty of ginger's tho :smt119
really?
Ratty46
23-08-07, 06:33 PM
yeh london does have a good number of ethnic riders, or black and asian whatever the term.
i dont know them but theres a couple of asian guys around my way with 600's they often nod when i pass them, and theres always black guys up at the ace on a friday or sat night.
i think bikes just attract white people more some odd reason.
maybe its the steroetypeing-long haired greasy bikers.
in the states its quite evened out you only have to look at stunt wars or stunting vids from there to see that.
SoulKiss
23-08-07, 07:04 PM
yeh london does have a good number of ethnic riders, or black and asian whatever the term.
i dont know them but theres a couple of asian guys around my way with 600's they often nod when i pass them, and theres always black guys up at the ace on a friday or sat night.
i think bikes just attract white people more some odd reason.
maybe its the steroetypeing-long haired greasy bikers.
in the states its quite evened out you only have to look at stunt wars or stunting vids from there to see that.
Its been observed on many an occasion on reaching a SELKENT meet that "non caucasian" skin must be road-rash proof, ie there are a lot of aftican/carribean origin guys running around on R1's in T-Shirts and Shorts.
There is certainly no racial/cultural bias in the .org that I can see, I just think that unfortunatly for some reason we dont get a lot of non-whites turning up to meets and so joining in.
In fact, taken in the context of this thread, with Lissa and even myself dancing around certain words and phrases to avoid offence at ALL costs.
Soho Massive is definately not Racially Exclusive - they even let Scots in......
Blue_SV650S
23-08-07, 08:47 PM
I think - like most things in life - it has something to do with willys?!?! :D
I think - like most things in life - it has something to do with willys?!?! :D
:smt044
Ratty46
23-08-07, 10:34 PM
Its been observed on many an occasion on reaching a SELKENT meet that "non caucasian" skin must be road-rash proof, ie there are a lot of aftican/carribean origin guys running around on R1's in T-Shirts and Shorts.
There is certainly no racial/cultural bias in the .org that I can see, I just think that unfortunatly for some reason we dont get a lot of non-whites turning up to meets and so joining in.
In fact, taken in the context of this thread, with Lissa and even myself dancing around certain words and phrases to avoid offence at ALL costs.
Soho Massive is definately not Racially Exclusive - they even let Scots in......
ah i nearly mentioned the summer boom...
i agree becuase i see it every summer, young black guys riding big bikes, with no protective clothing, not much bike handling skilll either! and probably no licence...yes they do sometimes have white guys with them too,but its mainly young black guys.
i'm not racist, i can just see what goes on around me. besides i have loads of black /asian mates. none ride tho:confused:
To be honest it may well have something to do with the history of biking in this country - Mods, Rockers and skinheads on Vespas - strongly identifiable white cultural groupings set in a time of much higher levels of racial intolerance.
Whilst society, pop culture and simple population percentages have changed, some things, rightly or wrongly, still leave a legacy on our collective psyche.
I was at a bike meet yesterday at The Anchor and someone I was with said to me shocked.......'an asian on a bike'......the biker then removed his helmet to reveal masses of facial hair and that he was not an asian. ......the moral that everyone is shocked to see other ethnic origins on bike.
I often see a MASSIVE black guy on a MASSIVE harley fatboy thing on the ring road though.
plowsie
24-08-07, 08:36 AM
I cant word how i want to say what i want to say. So i'm not...
But i see your point Lissa and i agree.
I cant word how i want to say what i want to say. So i'm not...
.
spit it out
plowsie
24-08-07, 08:47 AM
No cos i don't want to put it the wrong way and this turn into a racist discussion.
Alpinestarhero
24-08-07, 08:50 AM
Hey, nothing wrong with stating that observation. I too have noticed a lack of other racial groups in motorcycling when I've been to places like box hill, brands hatch, etc. It could be a cultural thing - consider Music of Black Origin (i.e. hip hop, R'n'B), where cars are used to portray the artists wealth and status (big jeeps, sports cars etc). Bikes dont really feature, although I have seen some in a few videos. There is only one non-caucasian person at my university who rides in on a bike (an asian guy with a very nice yamaha R1), which is quite suprising, considering ethnic "minorites" account for most of the student population at my university.
Matt
Alpinestarhero
24-08-07, 08:51 AM
No cos i don't want to put it the wrong way and this turn into a racist discussion.
Well, give your best shot. Whats teh jist of what you want to say? I guess we can let it slide for the purpose of free speech and discussion if it appears a bit...iffy, whether thats your intention or not! :)
Matt
the white rabbit
24-08-07, 08:57 AM
No cos i don't want to put it the wrong way and this turn into a racist discussion.
PM it to me and I'll write what you mean :p. Anyway, going back to the gingers, shocking isn't it?
Blue_SV650S
24-08-07, 08:57 AM
spit it out
Unfortunately in this PC environment, you have to be careful what you say, even an innocent comment can be misconstrued! Racism is a pretty serious issue these days, so caution is often the best way …
I don't feel so constrained when it comes to s3xism and munterism though :D So happy to point out that there are not many female riders - and the ones that are - are generally munters
i know loads of black (afro Caribbean) riders around where i live, then we share the same lifestyle but ive never seen any Indian, Bangladeshi or Pakistani riders and i live next to a massive asian populated area when i say asian i don't mean oriental maybe its seen as being evil in the muslim faith after all a lot of bikers have scull logos on stuff, do we have no asians on the org that can help out with this one.
I don't feel so constrained when it comes to s3xism and munterism though :D So happy to point out that there are not many female riders - and the ones that are - are generally munters
:smt046!
plowsie
24-08-07, 09:05 AM
So happy to point out that there are not many female riders - and the ones that are - are generally munters
After that comment can i be part of your will please mate. Paws and ShadowAngel ent too shabby yanno ;)
As for me putting my point across, i have a point but i cant put it into words properly, i have many "ethnic"(no offence aimed) friends who are good mates to me but still wouldnt like to cause an offence by saying the wrong thing so i will sit out of this one :cool:
I have noticed an increasing number of chinese/triad types on black bikes dressed in full black gear in notts, most of them own dodgy cafes or chip shops.
Thank you Lissa for raising a subject that had been in my mind before.
I think the representation is much stronger in London than it seems in the rest of the country (in the .Org & real life)
It's such a shame that the first reply had to pick you up on your wording after you had clearly taken such care :roll:
It would be interesting to know what the reason is, because (excl. London) I would definetely agree it's true.
Blue, yup another asstute observation.:smt045 But in LondonBikers there is one exception that proves the rule that Cool girl obviously hasn't met yet.
fat_brstd
24-08-07, 10:00 AM
there is a pub in seven sisters just down the road from where i used to live when i was at uni and was full to the brim with afrocarrabian guys on very hot bikes, mainly r1's, gixxer-thous and busa's all done up to the top every friday night. It played a lot of reggae music and was very smokey and they were all very friendly. Dont know if it still is a biker pub tho (this was a couple of years ago). Speeking to them they said on this very subject that they didnt really fancy doing things the way they percieved white bikers do. The only time i went in i was the only white guy.
Despite us all trying to be as open as possible we all judge people on how they look be it skin colour, hair colour or the choice of tracksuite bottoms and no gloves on a scooter. This is something that is unavoidable and i havnt figgured out a way to sort it yet.
Despite us all trying to be as open as possible we all judge people on how they look be it skin colour, hair colour or the choice of tracksuite bottoms and no gloves on a scooter. This is something that is unavoidable and i havnt figgured out a way to sort it yet.
Its impossible not to judge someone on first sight before you get to know them. You just need to be able to change that opinion for individuals when you get a chance to know them
e.g. Walking down the street and 5 people in (non biking) leathers carrying shotguns get out of a car and walk up to a house and start banging on the door. They might be going to a fancy dress party which is playing loud music, but I for one would be doing an about face and round the nearest corner.
Pedro68
24-08-07, 10:44 AM
Its been observed on many an occasion on reaching a SELKENT meet that "non caucasian" skin must be road-rash proof, ie there are a lot of aftican/carribean origin guys running around on R1's in T-Shirts and Shorts.
And just to prove there's no bias ... I saw a white caucasian male riding a gixer at what must have been close to 60mph in a 30mph zone, wearing only t-shirt, shorts, and trainers (no socks). So it's not just the ethnic minorities that believe they may have tarmac-resistant skin ;-)
Disclaimer: No offence intended to any creed/race.
Blue_SV650S
24-08-07, 10:48 AM
After that comment can i be part of your will please mate. Paws and ShadowAngel ent too shabby yanno ;)
:smt045 :D
I have never met either of them, so can't really comment! :alien:
plowsie
24-08-07, 10:57 AM
:smt045 :D
I have never met either of them, so can't really comment! :alien:
Meet em mate ;)
Blue_SV650S
24-08-07, 11:27 AM
Meet em mate ;)
Chances are that will never happen, but have you got any photos??? :smt077
plowsie
24-08-07, 11:31 AM
Chances are that will never happen, but have you got any photos??? :smt077
Paws was somewhere in the MCN babe comp ;) Shadowangel is on You and your bike thread ;)
I know what you mean, there's not many like me... but its a burden I live with.
I don't feel so constrained when it comes to s3xism and munterism though :D So happy to point out that there are not many female riders - and the ones that are - are generally munters
He can say that cus he's a munter too.
The prime law of Munterism - The wearing of Lycra is a privilage, not a right. ;)
Blue_SV650S
24-08-07, 12:09 PM
Paws was somewhere in the MCN babe comp ;) Shadowangel is on You and your bike thread ;)
I am feeling lazy, got any links?!!? :)
He can say that cus he's a munter too.
How dare you :shaking: ....
...
...
...
.... I am an uggo, not a munter ... only girlz can be munters!! :D
The prime law of Munterism - The wearing of Lycra is a privilage, not a right. ;)
I am not sure if you are a boy or a girl with a descriptive user name like K :D ... if you are a girl, are you worthy of Lycra?!!? :pirat:
{quote=shadowangel;1258986]Here ya go...!
Me
:smt051
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h318/vetchick/goapepic-1.jpg
Hee hee, I can play spot the difference with my much earlier pic in this thread. Then:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/spazmutt/MeandBlack2.jpg
And today:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/spazmutt/Blue/Blue200507.jpg
(Looking slightly grumpy as I hate having my photo taken.)
[quote=Paws;1173143]me on the zx9;
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/3169/bikes07006jr5.th.jpg (http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bikes07006jr5.jpg)
on the sv:
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/8061/bikes07004ln8.th.jpg (http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bikes07004ln8.jpg)
I want a new front tyre for all that hard work Blue :razz:
John 675
24-08-07, 01:49 PM
In America the racing/drag scene out there is huge with a massive mix up of different races, there is alot of Black and eastern asian factions that drag against each other and put more money on one drag than what a V decent house in the UK would cost. this however is predominatly underground so to speak.
over in the UK the car racing / modding scene is much more appealing in my opinion which seems to appeal to the whole spectrum of races residing in the UK anyone that goes to regular car meets will easily see this.. as for biking in the UK ethnic diversity is relatively low.. amoung younger generations say 18 - 25 i think the way that the countrys fads and obbsessions are currently running at - Cars and modding cars seems to be the way for most groups.
as for the older Gen i couldnt comment because on that i dont know. :D
plowsie
24-08-07, 01:56 PM
Cmon then back to the discussion lol
John 675
24-08-07, 01:57 PM
In America the racing/drag scene out there is huge with a massive mix up of different races, there is alot of Black and eastern asian factions that drag against each other and put more money on one drag than what a V decent house in the UK would cost. this however is predominatly underground so to speak.
over in the UK the car racing / modding scene is much more appealing in my opinion which seems to appeal to the whole spectrum of races residing in the UK anyone that goes to regular car meets will easily see this.. as for biking in the UK ethnic diversity is relatively low.. amoung younger generations say 18 - 25 i think the way that the countrys fads and obbsessions are currently running at - Cars and modding cars seems to be the way for most groups.
as for the older Gen i couldnt comment because on that i dont know. :D
Cmon then back to the discussion lol
lol, that was a very good Derail though lol,
As biking is a minority anyway, the chances of there being loads of an other minority invioved in it are slim. might explain why you dont see many other ethnic backgrounds.
I would imagine it is the same depending on where you live, london brum and other large citys with a higher proportion of ethnic minoritys are more likey to have a higher proportion of them ride bikes.
Unfortunately in this PC environment, you have to be careful what you say, even an innocent comment can be misconstrued! Racism is a pretty serious issue these days, so caution is often the best way …
im a yorkshire man............ i say what i like............ & i like what i blooddy well say;)
Some really thoughtful responses here, and it seems that Pete and I aren't the only ones to wonder why so few of the 'ethnic minorities' (God, I really hate that expression, by the way, but it does seem to be the officially acceptable one) ride bikes.
Plowsie, I wish you'd just say what you want to say. I'm sure people will understand if you struggle to word it, I had a Hell of a time working out my initial post, because the last thing I would want to do is offend anyone.
The derail was funny, but Blue........I don't know if you're an 'uggo', but I'm pretty sure you'll be a eunuch if some of the ladies fom here get their hands on you:D
As for gingers, well you can't get anything much more ginger than the guy on the far right of this pic. Funnily enough, his name is Rich:p
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j5/Lissasv650/TreasureHunt0051.jpg
the white rabbit
24-08-07, 05:46 PM
As for gingers, well you can't get anything much more ginger than the guy on the far right of this pic. Funnily enough, his name is Rich:p
:shock: Poor fellow. Tell him to hang on in there, we are working on a cure :thumbsup:
SVeeedy Gonzales
24-08-07, 09:44 PM
I see quite a few black guys riding bikes where I live (Medway) but no other "minorities". I know some Iraqi guys who are very keen on bikes. Maybe it's just heritage / image - in some Countries a bike is just a poor form of transport that's cheap and a bit risky so not seen as something to aspire to. Inthe UK / USA etc. we have a longer, bigger biking and racing heritage.
i dont think i have ever seen a "non white" on a bike,
When I took up biking, my mum, back home thought I'd lost the plot. Its just not seen as a lady like thing to do. My black friends, both male and female, all think its great that I ride, but none of them would take it up, mostly through lack of interest, but also because they see it as far too dangerous a sport. Same with my white friends.
I only personally know of two other non white bikers, one being the ex and the other an Asian doctor at work.
I find I get stared at quite a bit when I'm out and about on the bike, sometimes in a positive way, and other times not. I was once approached by a white man who asked to take a photograph of me on the bike to show his mates because he thought it was so cool to see a black woman on a bike and his mates wouldn't believe him without proof. Although he meant well (I think) and he seemed a nice bloke, I declined!!:p
Another time, I was harrassed in a car park by a group of young white boys who thought it was hilarious to see a 'black b***h on a bike and offered me a ride on a slave ship instead!!:(
I think some sport just tends to attract people of a particular race for whatever reason. I certainly wouldn't let that stop me if it was something I was interested in.:D
Lissa I don't think there is anything remotely offensive in your post.
the white rabbit
25-08-07, 06:12 AM
i dont think i have ever seen a "non white" on a bike,
Yes, but it ain't exactly freeendly to outsiders where you live, uhuh.
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/rcc/rcc-45a7b80b48511Hillbillies2.jpg
where did you get that photo of my family reunion?
the_lone_wolf
25-08-07, 07:21 AM
considering the island is whiter than scared milk it's probably no surprise that there is not one black, asian or other non-white biker regular at our local meet
the closest thing we have to ethnic is a guy from South Africa:D
Another time, I was harrassed in a car park by a group of young white boys who thought it was hilarious to see a 'black b***h on a bike and offered me a ride on a slave ship instead!!:(
Melody, that is horrendous. I'd like to be able to say that I can't believe people will still make comments like that in this day and age, but unfortunately, I can believe it only too well.:(
Blue_SV650S
25-08-07, 08:37 AM
Another time, I was harrassed in a car park by a group of young white boys who thought it was hilarious to see a 'black b***h on a bike and offered me a ride on a slave ship instead!!:(
That is pure racism, which I assume … well just happens from time to time? :cry: … I am not sure it is directly related to the fact that you were on a bike … I assume the same bunch of cretins would have made a similar comment had you turned up in a car, on a pushbike, on foot?!?!!? :confused:
Although I find it very sad that people like that are still out there, (it is one thing to have raciest thoughts, its another to vocalize it unprovoked to a random person about their business) but I am actually surprised they knew about the origin of some of the hatred/racism (both ways) stems from times of slavery! How old were these people?
But more importantly did you get your baps out?!?!?! ?:D
That is pure racism, which I assume … well just happens from time to time? :cry: … I am not sure it is directly related to the fact that you were on a bike … I assume the same bunch of cretins would have made a similar comment had you turned up in a car, on a pushbike, on foot?!?!!? :confused:
Although I find it very sad that people like that are still out there, (it is one thing to have raciest thoughts, its another to vocalize it unprovoked to a random person about their business) but I am actually surprised they knew about the origin of some of the hatred/racism (both ways) stems from times of slavery! How old were these people?
But more importantly did you get your baps out?!?!?! ?:D
LOL. Maybe that's what I should have done. Got my baps out!! That would have shut them up:p
I was surprised too that they knew about the slave trade. They obviously were 'educated'. Every cloud has a silver lining I guess.;)
i dont think i have ever seen a "non white" on a bike,
Look out for me in two weeks time.:smt026:smt026:smt026:smt026:smt026:smt026
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