What should a good battery voltage be?

[SVspeedr]

Been trying to diagnose an electrical problem for the last couple of week and I'm down to thinking it's the battery (it's about 2 years old ). I've got an '01 SV650S and first it died getting into work one day (instrument lights blinked first and then the engine died just as I came to a stop). Battery was dead flat so fully charged it and ran through the tests in the Haynes manual. No-load unregulated voltage on the coils was 65V+ on all 3 pairs, but the regulated voltage over the battery was only 12.2V and didn't increase much with RPM. So thinking it was the reg/rec I bought a used one off eBay. With the replacement reg/rec the voltage does increase a little with RPM but at 5k it's still only about 12.8V so still falls short of the 13.5V to 15.5v as per the book. Decided to try riding it without an overnight charge and made it to work and back but shortly after starting out the next day it died the same way as before. The leakage test as per Haynes indicates no leak (short) in the electrical system. After a full charge I get 13.2V initially and then in a few minutes it drops to about 12.5V. Haynes doesn't tell much about how to test battery condition, it just says that if it drops below 12.3V it needs to be removed and charged, but I've read on this forum that a tired battery could cause a low reading, so I'd be grateful if anyone could tell me what the voltage should be on a good battery or how to test the battery condition. Or maybe I'm on the wrong path entirely and someone has run into this before and can point me to the likely culprit!

[timwilky]

Reads like somebody sold you a duff R/R

[Spanner Man]

Good morning.
Have you tested the alternator for earthing? Using a multimeter check that none of the three yellow alternator output wires go to earth, resistance should be infinite.
If your alternator tests ok it's probably down to the rec/reg unit or the battery. Do you have a mate with whom you can swop components with? As electrical components are notorious for testing ok but letting you down when you actually require them to do their job.
One component often overlooked when diagnosing charging problems is the starter relay. As stated, substitution is the best way of eliminating it.
Rec/reg units on SV's are a bit of a weak point, so it's possible that your secondhand unit has the same problem as your original one. For a decent affordable unit try Electrex on 01491 682369. Their units are brand new, and come with a 12 month guarantee. The SV unit is around £70 inc VAT.
When all is functioning correctly, you should see at least 14.5 volts across the battery at 4-5 thousand rpm with the lights on.
A quick battery drop test is to fully charge it, & with a meter clipped across it start the bike. It shouldn't really drop below about 11 volts. You have to be watch carefully for as soon as the engine starts obviously you have to release the button. If it drops to say 8 volts on starting it's had it!
N.B. Some multimeters do not respond quickly enough for this test.

Cheers.

[johnnyrod]

Definitely do the earth test (thoughusually the alternator's burnt out if you get earth continuity and yours sounds fine at last check). Otherwise duff RR.

[SVspeedr]

Did the alternator test tonight and all 3 showed infinite resistance so we're ok there. The start test showed a drop in battery voltage to about 10.9V when hitting the button so I think we're ok there too. I guess that only leaves the R/R and the wiring. I don't have a mate to swap parts with so I'll give Electrex a call and see if they have a R/R in stock and bite the bullet for a new one (should have done that the first time :().

Thanks to all for the suggestions. I'll post the outcome here when I get the new R/R.

Cheers!

[Spanner Man]

Good morning.
It sounds as if your alternator & your battery are ok, which as you state only leaves the wiring. as a last test check for continuity between the red output wire on the rec/reg & the terminal on the positive battery lead, any significant resistance would indicate that possibly the starter solenoid is suspect.
Do this with the rec/reg & the battery lead disconnected.
Electrex usually have units in stock, & are pretty quick on delivery. Let me know how you get on.

Cheers.

[SVspeedr]

Well, after doing the continuity check for suspect starter solenoid and that checking out OK, I ordered a new rec/reg from Elecrex. It got lost for a week en route but is now installed but I don't think it has solved the problem. At 5k rpm and under full load the voltage still only reads 12.4V max. I'm starting to think it may in fact be the battery even though it holds a charge and tests out OK. Any other ideas? I'll try riding it in the mean time and see if the battery is at least holding a consistent charge. I'd like to be able to test the charged level but don't know of a way except to observe how long it takes to recharge to the float point.

[martin_SV]

From your description something def not right. When charging from alternator my voltage across terminals was around 15v. Some web stuff I'd been keeping which may assist.

HTH

martin

PS Tried to format the columns below better but the forum engine wont have it!!


From YUASA's battery charging page
5ball hydrometer Sp Grav. Voltage

4/5 Balls Floating 100% Charged 1.265 12.60v
3 Balls Floating 75% Charged 1.210 12.40v
2 Balls Floating 50% Charged 1.160 12.10v
1 Balls Floating 25% Charged 1.120 11.90v
0 Balls Floating 0% Charged < 1.100 <11.80v

From another page on batteries:

Battery Charging Stuff 2
For those of you that are in a hurry, a rule of thumb is "terminal voltage 12.5 V or higher, and density in all six cells 1.24 g/ml or higher means that the battery is very probably in good shape".

Charge state I: Voltage A fully charged 12-volt lead-acid battery has a voltage of 12.6...12.8 V at 20 °C. The exact terminal value will depend on the individual construction, in particular the alloy of the electrodes - Pb, Sb, Sn, Ca - and the concentration of the acid used. The voltage for sealed lead-acid batteries - SLA - is usually at the upper end of this range.

On the other hand, a battery is considered "empty" if the voltage reaches 11.6...11.7 V (same for SLA). In this state, the battery will still be able to deliver quite some current, however, the voltage will drop rapidly - i.e. the "internal resistance" is very high. If you don't recharge in this state, the battery "sulfates", and this will affect its performance.

Thus, one of the simplest approaches to determine the charge state is the open-circuit voltage of the battery:

First remove the "surface charge" that builds up on the plates - if you do not remove the surface charge, you will measure values that are somewhat higher and thus falsify the result. For car batteries, the usual procedure is to either turn the headlights on for 3 min, or to crank the engine for some 10 s (this draws some 100 A). For a motorcycle, I suggest to leave ignition and headlight on for about 1...2 minutes (depending on its battery size).
Then, use a good (read: accurate, calibrated) digital voltmeter and measure the voltage at the battery poles.
12.6 V or better (at 20 °C) is fully charged, and every 0.2 V less means roughly 25% less capacity. Thus, 12.2 V is only 50% charged, and 11.8 V or less is an empty battery. - For SLA, use an upper value of 12.8 V and count approximately 0.25 V per 25% step.

[SVspeedr]

From your description something def not right.


I agree. But here's the results from my battery tests (with the new R/R). After removing the "surface" charge the voltage stabilized at 12.75V. After starting the engine the voltage dropped to 12.1V running at idle. At 5k RPM it increased to 12.3V. After 10 minutes of running the idle voltage was down to 12.06V and 5k voltage down to 12.24V. After stopping the engine and turning off the ignition the voltage recovered to 12.6V. Turning on the ignition at this point drops the voltage to 12.0V. I don't know if that's normal, but it seems odd that it only increases to 12.1V (idle) to 12.3V (5k) with the engine running and a brand new R/R installed. At this point I'm at a loss to know what could be causing this.

[martin_SV]

SV speedr, I just typed a really long reply and it's disapeared!!. I have some ideas, and am PM'ng my contact number. Ring me anytime,
martin

[andyharding]

sounds exactly the same as my problems. i however went the opposite way and got a battery first instead of the reg/rec. all the figure you have quoted are roughly the same as mine. I cleaned all the contacts up on the reg/rec and sprayed them with wd40. cable tied them together so they couldn't come apart and mine has had no trouble starting since, however the voltage readings haven't changed. Can you let me know what you come up with to sort you problem.

cheers

andy

[yorkie_chris]

All well and good talking about battery acid testers etc. but aren't the SV batteries supposed to be sealed units?

In my experience with car batteries, all battery hydrometers are good for is distributing acid all over your toolbox, after telling you the batterys goosed just like you thought in the first place!

[SVspeedr]

Well, I took martin_SV's suggestion and tried the tests with a known good battery (car battery) and the results were identical (minus a couple of hundredths of a volt, probably due to the jumper leads). The car battery registered 12.6V with the ignition off. When connected to the car with the engine running it registered 14V, whereas on the bike it only registered 12.1V with the engine running. While the car battery was connected to the bike and the bike engine running I disconnected the bike's starter solenoid to see if that was drawing any current but it had no effect on voltage. With the bike battery re-installed I then measured the current draw on the battery under various conditions: 1) ignition off - no current, 2) ignition on, low beam on - 7A, 3) ignition on, high-beam on - 9A, engine running and low beam - 7A, engine running and high-beam - 9A. Needless to say my meter wires got quite hot during this time. Still not sure if these results are normal, but the only things not replaced now are the stator and the wiring. I have checked all the fuses but is there anything else I can test in the electrical system?

[martin_SV]

What stands out to me from your most recent tests are the current readings. Getting the same (negative) current readings even when the motor is running then clearly for some reason the power from the alternator is not getting through. I cant say I know why this should be but clearly this is why you're battery is running down after a day or so usage. Is there any way your new reg regulator has been wired in incorrectly? I imagine not as I guess there's a mutli connector brick utilised. That my only guess at the moment. The only other point of comment is the fact that you did manage to get a more normal "on charge" voltage (14.1v)when you were using a known good battery. If you remember my comments about high internal resistance in an otherwise apparently within spec battery. As other have said subsititution is often the easiest approach. The final test i could sugest is to check whether you get a positive current flow to battery with engine runnign at 4-5k when using your known good battery. ie the car batt.
Good luck!!!

[martin_SV]

Something to add as Just read your post again, re: are these results normal?
No!, The engine running currents should be positive.
B) the values obtained ie -7a and -9a engine stoipped are probably about correct, they equate to a draw of 84 and 108 watts respectively ( watts =VxA. Not sure whether both filaments light when on main beam but if yes then again this sounds vaguely right. but not exactly as hlight bulb filaments are 55+55 if I recall correctly.
Don't give up!!

HTH Martin

[SVspeedr]

Actually, the 14V reading was only when the car battery was connected to the car charging system (so the car is charging the car battery fine, but the bike does not charge the car battery when its connected). When connected to the bike, the car battery never got above 12.3V while running at 5k RPM. Neither was there ever a positive current flow to the battery using either the bike or the car battery (I measured the current to both). As mentioned before the alternator test showed good voltage from all 3 wire pairs and the connectors to the R/R are the standard block type. Also, I now have 3 R/R units that all exhibit the same behavior when connected. Looking at the wiring diagram I see that the only components between the alternator wires and the battery are the R/R and the starter relay. According to the diagram the relay has a fuse and a feed to the starter solenoid. I'm not 100% sure but I think this is the junction box under the right side of the seat that has a green plastic cover over it. It's certainly the only place I can find a fuse that isn't in the fuse box. The fuse itself looks good but maybe there's something else going on in that box that is causing a high resistance and causing the low voltage at the battery. I would think that if that circuit was open (i.e. blown fuse or broken wire) that the battery voltage would show no sign of increasing with RPM. Since I'm getting an increase from 12.1V (@ idle) to 12.3V (@ 5k) I'm assuming that some current must be getting through the relay. Now... how to test the relay...:confused:

BTW. I have high-powered bulbs installed so that would account for the higher current draw.

[farleygerber]

sounds exactly the same as my problem. i got a new battery first and then a reg/rec. My battery reads 13.6 when fully charged, drops to 10.5 when starting, and gets back to 12.3 ideling and if I rev it to ~5000 rpm it will get back to 12.5. If I unplug my headlight fuse I will get 12.8v at an idle and rev up to 13v. Both of my reg/reqs behave the same. I tested the alternator and it pumps 60v ac at ~4500 rpms under no load. I have tested the continuity on all of the wires I can get my hands on and sprayed cleaner on all the connectors. I wonder about that starter relay as well . . . please let me know what you come up with,

brennan

[SVspeedr]

OK. Here's the latest test results... I checked the continuity through the starter relay (red wire from harness going into the R/R) to the +ve battery connector (battery disconnected) and it showed 0.2 ohms, which is good, so I think we can rule out the starter relay. Then I went back to testing the stator coils and I think I may have found something. I tested the coils by measuring the resistance across each of the yellow wires (3 combos) and found that the resistance was outside of range at 0.8 ohms (specs say 0.2 - 0.7 ohms) but the biggest revelation was that the test for continuity between each of the 3 wires and earth also showed a resistance of 0.8 ohms whereas the specs say that this should be infinite! I'm now fairly certain it must be the stator assembly although I am puzzled why the no-load test on the coils shows good voltage (65V at 5k RPM).:confused:

[Spanner Man]

Morning all.
It sounds as if you have located the problem, though I believe at my suggestion you have tested for earthing of the alternator before. It is possible that if you did the test with the engine cold your meter would show infinite resistance, but the alternator coils are breaking down when hot.

I have seen plenty of alternators that have the specified AC output, but wont charge due to an earth leakage. Frustrating things electrical components.

Cheers.

[Tris]

I'm a Mechanical Engineer so am on shakey ground here ;) but could you "mega" the stator coils to confirm any insulation breakdown?

I assume that you would need to disconect the alternator from the bike entirly

I'm sure a sparky will come along and confirm this one way or another :D:D

[yorkie_chris]

I'd be careful doing that with it anywhere near the bike, I wouldn't imagine the magnetic pulses produced possibly making it up through the pulse coil to the ICU doing anything much good.

And now mine is showing 13.5v which doesn't seem healthy, but mine did go down on the right side and damage the fairing right over the RR unit.

[SVspeedr]

It sounds as if you have located the problem, though I believe at my suggestion you have tested for earthing of the alternator before.

Yes, you're right. You did suggest testing the coils for earthing before and I did do the test but I did not see an earthing problem then. On doing the re-test I now believe that I may have made and error the first time because my meter probe is larger than the slot in the connector and it took some fiddling to make good contact with the terminal inside the block. I think last time it must have not made proper contact so it appeared that I was getting infinite resistance. I've read the Haynes manual on how to remove/replace the alternator but it doesn't specifically talk about just replacing the stator coils, it talks about removing the rotor, which seems like a complicated procedure that uses a couple of special tools. From the pictures it looks like all I need to do is drain the oil, remove the cover, unbolt the stator, bolt the new one on and replace the cover and oil. Does anyone know if there's more to it than that?

[Spanner Man]

Morning all.
At least you've found the problem, that's the main thing!
Yep, replacing the stator is pretty simple, pretty much as you say. Make sure you route the wires exactly as the original one is, so take a good look & maybe take a few pictures to assist you on reassembly. (I knew camera phones had a use). Also get the wiring grommets in properly, with a dab of silicone sealant, or it could leak.
I think Electrex do a new stator unit, it's around the £65 mark.

Cheers.

[SVspeedr]

Yep, just ordered the "high-powered" unit from Electrex World for £65. I went the extra for the high-powered unit simply because I do use higher wattage headlight bulbs and I'm thinking that maybe that was a contributing factor to the stator coils' failure. Thanks for the tips!

[andyharding]

Yes, you're right. You did suggest testing the coils for earthing before and I did do the test but I did not see an earthing problem then. On doing the re-test I now believe that I may have made and error the first time because my meter probe is larger than the slot in the connector and it took some fiddling to make good contact with the terminal inside the block. I think last time it must have not made proper contact so it appeared that I was getting infinite resistance. I've read the Haynes manual on how to remove/replace the alternator but it doesn't specifically talk about just replacing the stator coils, it talks about removing the rotor, which seems like a complicated procedure that uses a couple of special tools. From the pictures it looks like all I need to do is drain the oil, remove the cover, unbolt the stator, bolt the new one on and replace the cover and oil. Does anyone know if there's more to it than that?

can you describe how you tested the alternator for earthing. is it the three yellow wires on the connector block near the reg/rec. how do you test it i.e meter settings (excuse the stupid questions but i am no good with electrics)

[SVspeedr]

can you describe how you tested the alternator for earthing.
I disconnected the block with the 3 yellow wires from the connector nearest the R/R. I put my meter on resistance setting (measures ohms) with a range of 0-20 ohms (make sure the meter battery is good as it needs to send the battery current to measure the resistance). I inserted one of the meter probes into each of the 3 slots in the block, in turn, while the other probe is connected to an earth source (pretty well any bare part on the frame would work but the battery -ve terminal was close so I used that). On my meter the readout starts at 1 (infinite resistance) and it takes about a second to register the actual resistance once the probes are securely connected. Securely connected is important because the first time I tried the test I just touched the contact points briefly and thought I was getting infinite resistance (a 1 reading on a digital meter), but when properly connected this would drop to 0.8 ohms between all 3 yellow wires and earth.

[andyharding]

I disconnected the block with the 3 yellow wires from the connector nearest the R/R. I put my meter on resistance setting (measures ohms) with a range of 0-20 ohms (make sure the meter battery is good as it needs to send the battery current to measure the resistance). I inserted one of the meter probes into each of the 3 slots in the block, in turn, while the other probe is connected to an earth source (pretty well any bare part on the frame would work but the battery -ve terminal was close so I used that). On my meter the readout starts at 1 (infinite resistance) and it takes about a second to register the actual resistance once the probes are securely connected. Securely connected is important because the first time I tried the test I just touched the contact points briefly and thought I was getting infinite resistance (a 1 reading on a digital meter), but when properly connected this would drop to 0.8 ohms between all 3 yellow wires and earth.

so the reading should be infinite if there is no leakage to earth. if it isn't infinite whats the best bet. renew the wiring or the stator coils or both

[caz650s]

Batteries are funny things ...sometimes ok for a while and then pack up with no warning.

I had the same symptoms/charge rate as you and a new battery cured the problem you will have been unlucky if you have an alternator problem on a sv ..its pretty rare.

[SVspeedr]

Alternator failure may be rare but that's exactly what happened to mine. I've already replaced the battery and R/R thinking they were the problem. The starter relay tests OK, but the alternator definitely has a short to earth. It could be because I burn high wattage bulbs up front. As for replacing the stator coils, the new unit will come with the wiring attached to the coils so when you replace the coils you're also replacing the wiring. You just need to route them the same way the old ones came out and then attach the connector block on the end.

[andyharding]

Right boys and girls get your head round this.

I have done the stator test as SVspeedr did and my results are infinite so there is no leakage to earth from the alternator. I have done the unregulated test (engine running, lights on 5000rpm and measure accross the three yellow wires) and my results were 87V across the three wires. So this indicated to me that the alternator is fine and the stator coils are fine. I then did the regulated test (engine running, lights on 5000rpm and measure accross the battery) and my results were 11.8v were they should be around 13.5v to 15.5v. What i noticed though is at 2000 rpm the measurement was 13.9v. Now this is indicating to me that the reg/rec is duff. Can anyone confirm this or agree with me.

Please comment as i need to know what the F### is going on with my bikes charging system.

Cheers in advance.

Andy

[caz650s]

Right boys and girls get your head round this.

I have done the stator test as SVspeedr did and my results are infinite so there is no leakage to earth from the alternator. I have done the unregulated test (engine running, lights on 5000rpm and measure accross the three yellow wires) and my results were 87V across the three wires. So this indicated to me that the alternator is fine and the stator coils are fine. I then did the regulated test (engine running, lights on 5000rpm and measure accross the battery) and my results were 11.8v were they should be around 13.5v to 15.5v. What i noticed though is at 2000 rpm the measurement was 13.9v. Now this is indicating to me that the reg/rec is duff. Can anyone confirm this or agree with me.

Please comment as i need to know what the F### is going on with my bikes charging system.

Cheers in advance.

Andy


Is ther any chance that that is just the regulator doing its job ? mine used to charge more at lower revs until i replaced the battery !! :confused:

[andyharding]

Is ther any chance that that is just the regulator doing its job ? mine used to charge more at lower revs until i replaced the battery !! :confused:

It is a brand new battery only been on about 2 weeks had the same results with the old battery to.

[Spanner Man]

Good morning.
It sounds as if your alternator is ok. Check for continuity from the red wire on the RR plug, & the positive terminal of the battery, & from the black wire to earth, Do this test with the RR & the battery disconnected. If you have continuity on both, it sounds like the RR has had it.
If you have no continuity on the red wire, it's probably the starter solenoid, if you have none on the black, it's an earthing problem.

Cheers.

[andyharding]

Good morning.
It sounds as if your alternator is ok. Check for continuity from the red wire on the RR plug, & the positive terminal of the battery, & from the black wire to earth, Do this test with the RR & the battery disconnected. If you have continuity on both, it sounds like the RR has had it.
If you have no continuity on the red wire, it's probably the starter solenoid, if you have none on the black, it's an earthing problem.

Cheers.

Right just done the operation as described above and yes there is continuity from the red wire in the plug to positive and the same with the black to earth.

What i was thinking though is surely there should be continuity as the red wire into the reg/rec is connected into the 12v line somewhere in the circuit so will show continuity and as with the black wire connected to earth.

This is how i tested it is it correct or should i test the connector thats attached to the reg/rec

Test 1

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n61/andyharding/regrectest2.jpg

Test 2

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n61/andyharding/regrectest1.jpg

As you can see by my artistic drawings the multi meter beeped on both tests indicating continuity. Is this correct or should i be testing like this.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n61/andyharding/regrectest3.jpg
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n61/andyharding/regrectest4.jpg

Can anyone comment on this are my first tests right or my second tests correct.

If as spanner Man says if there is continuity then the reg/rec has had it. (which there was in test 1 & 2)

Please help as i am loosing what hair i have got left

Cheers in advance

Andy

[yorkie_chris]

First drawing looks right to me

[andyharding]

First drawing looks right to me

does that mean my reg/rec has had it or should there be continuity on those wires

[yorkie_chris]

The connector at the top of the pic is represtenting the one to the loom aye?

if so then yes I'd say the regrec, as you've shown with the beep test that the rr has continuity to the battery + and - as it should.

[yorkie_chris]

Just to clarify, the second way of testing you did putting the tester to the reg rec connector itself (unplugged from the loom) shows nothing and there shouldn't be any continuity (as the connector is er disconnected)

[Spanner Man]

Morning all.
As Yorkie points out the 1st 2 drawings are correct.
No continuity on the red or black wires would indicate a break in the loom in the case of the black wire, as it goes to earth.
The red wire goes to the positive battery terminal via the starter solenoid, no continuity on the red would indicate that either there is a break in the loom somewhere, or the starter solenoid is defective.
As you have continuity, & your alternator tested ok, it's looking like the RR has had it. Alternators should be tested with the engine hot, as occaissonaly the windings are fine when cold, but break down with heat.
Solenoid failure is rare, but as every bit of electrical current your bike uses, & the charging current, comes via the solenoid in one way or another, it is a hard working component.

Cheers.

P.S. Nice drawings, & don't worry about being bald, it saves a fortune on shampoo, & haircuts!:D

[andyharding]

well it looks like i must order a reg/rec then. i will keep you posted on the results after new reg\rec fitted.

[andyharding]

p.s cheers for all the help. i appreciate it.

[SVspeedr]

I replaced my stator today and low and behold I now have 14V at 5k rpm!! Upon examination of the stator that came out it was clear what had happened. One of the coils was black and charred at the top, indicating that it was getting extremely hot and probably melted the wiring causing a short to earth. I added a picture as an attachment. Hope you can see it.

Thanks to all who helped in resolving this problem!! Now, what to do with the 2 rec/regs that turned out not to be the problem... Anyone out there need a good used rec/reg???

[yorkie_chris]

Thats a conclusively knackered stator...

Would you hold a reg/rec for dizzyblonde, hers is suspect at the minute.

Chris

[SVspeedr]

Would you hold a reg/rec for dizzyblonde, hers is suspect at the minute.

Sure. They'll be sitting around the garage for a while.

[andyharding]

Well my new reg/rec turned up today. Just fitted it and now i am getting a reading of over 14V whith the lights on and running at 5000rpm.

:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041: smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:s mt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:sm t041:smt041:smt041

FINALY MY PROBLEM IS SOLVED.

:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041: smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:s mt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:sm t041:smt041:smt041


THANK YOU TO ALL THAT HAS HELPED ME THROUGH THIS TRAUMATIC TIME.

[thefallenangel]

Well my new reg/rec turned up today. Just fitted it and now i am getting a reading of over 14V whith the lights on and running at 5000rpm.

:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041: smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:s mt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:sm t041:smt041:smt041

FINALY MY PROBLEM IS SOLVED.

:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041: smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:s mt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:smt041:sm t041:smt041:smt041


THANK YOU TO ALL THAT HAS HELPED ME THROUGH THIS TRAUMATIC TIME.


Yep and if you learnt that battery voltage means **** all. When checking a battery you need to see if it's internal resistance has gone up since new as this will show up how stuff a battery is.

[SVspeedr]

I replaced my stator today and low and behold I now have 14V at 5k rpm!!
BUT WAIT!!! First day out and I get a dead battery again!! Out comes the multi-meter and the stator continuity test looks OK. 0.5 ohms between all 3 leads and infinite between any lead and earth. I can't test the "no load" voltage yet because I can't get it started but just barely cranking it I'm getting a volt or two. Now, the new stator is slightly smaller diameter than the factory unit but I can't see that having any effect. I've put the battery back on charge so I can retest the regulated voltage again with a fully charged battery, but somehow I suspect I'm not going to see 14V this time. What could have gone wrong???

[yorkie_chris]

Could be some other system overloading the stator

[Biker Biggles]

Are you saying your battery went flat between last night and this morning?If so you either have a shaggid battery or there is a system drain when everything is switched off.Like the parking light staying on?

[andyharding]

Are you saying your battery went flat between last night and this morning?If so you either have a shaggid battery or there is a system drain when everything is switched off.Like the parking light staying on?

There is definatly something drawing current from the battery. Is the bike alarmed (alarm could be faulty and drawing current), Is the battery faulty. Remove the battery and charge it till its full. Then unplug it and leave it off the bike. Keep checking the voltage. If it stays the same then the promblem is with the bike.

[SVspeedr]

No, it didn't discharge overnight. I just didn't put it on charge after I installed the new stator as the voltage was reading 14V @ 5k. Then I rode to work and back and 2 blocks before getting home it stalled at a traffic light with a totally dead battery. I put the battery on charge at 9pm and by 2pm the next day it was still charging (no green float light). By 9pm (24hrs later) it was indicating fully charged. The battery voltage with bike ignition off indicates 12.8V (after surface charge drained). There is no current leak with the ignition off and normal current drain with ignition on. Now here's the weird part... I tested the "no load" voltage from the stator and the output is only 35V @ 5K (instead of 60V as Haynes specifies) across all 3 leads. The voltage at idle is only 8.5V. Then I connected the reg/rec and measured the regulated voltage and it started out at 13.5V @ 5k but as I held it at 5k the voltage kept climbing continuously up to 16V in less than a minute!! The 3 yellow wires and the connector block were getting very warm, too, and not knowing if that was normal I shut it down. If I hadn't just replace the reg/rec with a brand new one from Electrex I would have said that I had a bad regulator! So now I have several questions: 1) would the smaller diameter stator cause the output to only be 35V?: 2) what could cause the regulated voltage to climb to 16V?: 3) is it normal for the 3 stator leads to become very warm even though there was only a light load on the electrical system (It was running with the headlights disconnected)?; 4) how could the battery get discharged if the regulator is putting out more volts than the battery's no-load voltage?

[RhythmJunkie]

This is becoming a more difficult problem to solve than the Palestinian issue! :)

Makes very interesting reading though!

[Spanner Man]

Afternoon all.
According to my Electrex catalogue the outside diameter of their Curvy stator is 102mm. It is possible that yours had been made undersize, although I've never seen it on one of their stators.
Another possibility is that your RR unit has been damaged due to the old stator shorting, don't you have a spare or two you could try? & yes the alternator wires shouldn't get warm.

An undersize stator could give you low AC voltage readings, still it doesn't explain how you saw in excess of 14 volts after you initially fitted it.

Your battery is not looking good if it took 24 hours to fully charge, try this basic drop test....With everything connected & your meter clipped across the battery set to DC volts, start the bike. If the indicated voltage of the battery drops below 10.5 volts it shows the battery to be weak.

Cheers.

[yorkie_chris]

If the leads are getting warm is it possible a damaged RR could be overloading the stator?

Chris

[SVspeedr]

Well, here's the next episode in the saga! ... I tested the regulated voltage again this morning and again it steadily climbed, this time to over 17V before I got nervous and shut it down. Wires were getting hot! Then I switched out my new Electrex RR for one of the old ones, which was not easy because the plastic coil lead connector blocks were fused, no doubt due to the heat. With the old RR connected I'm now getting a steady, and very gratifying 13.9V @ 3k RPM under heavy load, however, I'm somewhat puzzled why it drops off to 13.2V as RPM climbs to 5k. At idle I'm getting only 12.2V with lights on and 12.6V with lights disconnected. I'm wondering if this is due to the lower output voltage from the new stator. The new stator is only about 2-3mm smaller in diameter than the original so I find it hard to believe that it would make a 25V difference. It's also the "high-output" model so that's even more puzzling! At least now that the battery is receiving a steady 13+V as soon as it's off idle, I feel fairly confident that I'm not going to get stranded with a dead battery, provided, of course, that my battery is still OK after surviving the failure of both the stator and the RR. Despite the fact that a full charge from dead flat took almost 24 hrs, the drop test suggested by Spanner Man seems to indicate that it's still OK, as when started the voltage doesn't drop below 11.5V. My question now is, should I not worry that the unregulated voltage is only 35V as long as I'm getting at least 13.2V on the battery?

[Spanner Man]

Morning all.

As I suspected, your RR has been damaged by the generator shorting by the look of it. At least you had a spare or two eh.
I would say that the reduced output from the generator is due to the stator being somewhat smaller than the original. 3mm would make a difference (ask any woman):D.....It would be worth a call to Electrex, they're a pretty helpful bunch.
I think you'll be ok for now, as it sounds as if your battery is in reasonable order.

Cheers.

[caz650s]

Well, here's the next episode in the saga! ... I tested the regulated voltage again this morning and again it steadily climbed, this time to over 17V before I got nervous and shut it down. Wires were getting hot! Then I switched out my new Electrex RR for one of the old ones, which was not easy because the plastic coil lead connector blocks were fused, no doubt due to the heat. With the old RR connected I'm now getting a steady, and very gratifying 13.9V @ 3k RPM under heavy load, however, I'm somewhat puzzled why it drops off to 13.2V as RPM climbs to 5k. At idle I'm getting only 12.2V with lights on and 12.6V with lights disconnected. I'm wondering if this is due to the lower output voltage from the new stator. The new stator is only about 2-3mm smaller in diameter than the original so I find it hard to believe that it would make a 25V difference. It's also the "high-output" model so that's even more puzzling! At least now that the battery is receiving a steady 13+V as soon as it's off idle, I feel fairly confident that I'm not going to get stranded with a dead battery, provided, of course, that my battery is still OK after surviving the failure of both the stator and the RR. Despite the fact that a full charge from dead flat took almost 24 hrs, the drop test suggested by Spanner Man seems to indicate that it's still OK, as when started the voltage doesn't drop below 11.5V. My question now is, should I not worry that the unregulated voltage is only 35V as long as I'm getting at least 13.2V on the battery?


I don't think you need to worry about the voltage dropping off slightly as you increase the revs .... could just be the regulator doing its job ?

[SVspeedr]

Yes, I'll definitely give Electrex a call. I'm just plain curious about why there's a difference in voltage. I also need to ask them if there's any warranty on the RR I first bought from them.

Thanks for all the help!

[Spanner Man]

Afternoon all.
I've dealt with Electrex for years, & as I say they're a pretty helpful bunch, & all their products carry a 12 month warranty.

However as the new RR was obviously damaged by a faulty alternator, they're not be obliged to honour any warranty. The best that you can hope for is that they make a goodwill gesture.....If the new stator is going to require replacement it could be worth subtly pointing out that as you're going to have to do the work again.......Remember to be nice:D

Cheers.

[SVspeedr]

While I agree that the failed stator may have been a factor in the RR failure, I don't find it "obvious" because my other 2 factory units were in the bike also with the failed stator and they're still functioning properly. Also, since the stator was shorted to earth there would have been less voltage and less current passing through the RR than if the stator was pumping out properly. In your opinion, what aspect of the stator failure could have caused the RR to fail?

[SVspeedr]

Afternoon all.
I've dealt with Electrex for years, & as I say they're a pretty helpful bunch, & all their products carry a 12 month warranty.

However as the new RR was obviously damaged by a faulty alternator, they're not be obliged to honour any warranty. The best that you can hope for is that they make a goodwill gesture.....If the new stator is going to require replacement it could be worth subtly pointing out that as you're going to have to do the work again.......Remember to be nice:D

Cheers.
I called Electrex this morning and they were very helpful. Turns out the "high-power" stator puts out less voltage but more current than the factory unit, so they said not to worry about it only being 35V. They also said that the slightly smaller diameter was not a problem and wouldn't cause any difference in performance. As for the RR they said is sounded faulty and suggested returning it with a letter describing the problem and they will either replace it or refund my money! Great news all around!
Thanks for all the help guys! The bike's been running great ever since!

[Spanner Man]

Afternoon all.

Good show all round then!

Cheers.

[Dave-the-rave]

Bumping an old thread for a reason. The OP SVspeedr was a guest when he created this thread so I can't contact him. I'm curious how his 35 VAC stator held up in the long term. Maybe if he registered as a member and is still active he could let me know the outcome.

A long shot I know after 9 years but hey...an ex of mine just got in touch after 25 years so ya never know.