Do you use your Back brake?

[Berlin]

I can't actually remember the last time I used the rear brake on a bike.
I use the engine to brake the rear.

Is this usual or unusual?

Carl

[tigersaw]

I use it a great deal, its on gently for the first half of every roundabout as I go round before I see the exit. probably bad technique, I was taught this way 30 years ago, dunno if it keeps a bit of load on the engine, settles the suspension or does nothing at all but old habits die hard.

[melody]

I was taught to use the back brake quite a lot, especially at slow speeds. I then got into the habit of constantly using the back brake. However I have since been advised that it should be about 70% front and 30% back brake, so I'm still trying to get out of the habit of over using the back brake. :confused:

[Korben]

Anything below about 10mph and I solely use the Back Brake. I was taught this while learning and I have to agree in slow moving traffic it keeps the bike more stable. Plus in an Emergency stop the back brake comes on practically straight after the front brake has been applied. Again I was taught this while learning and it seems to be the best system.

I can see how people live without the back brake though. I guess I had a good teacher who left his mark on me!

Korben

[somnus]

I always use mine especially when filtering its the easiest way to weave your way through trafic while using the clutch aswell.

If its a case that I have to brake on a bend(which I try advoid like the plauge) I`ll only use the back brake.
Grab that front too hard while leaned over and bye bye bike:smt009

[stuartyboy]

I sure do. all the time at very low speeds/traffic light/filtering.

Something to try...

...get some cones/markers etc. ride along at say 40-50 and at the marker hit the front brake. mark the distance you stopped in.

Do the same again but this time use front and back brakes - you'll be surprised just how much your stopping distance has shortened.

[diamond]

I never use mine, except when i'm stopped at lights and junctions.

[fizzwheel]

I sure do. all the time at very low speeds/traffic light/filtering.

+ 1

Also when I've really really cocked up and need to stop quickly. It does help in those situations, but you need to practice using it effectively.

[Viney]

everyday. People who dont, obviously dont ride in london

[tricky]

Use it all the time.
Especially < 10 mph whilst filtering, maneuvering etc. (as others have said).

Also need to use it on track on the SV.
Have ridden a CBR600RR on track and didn't need to touch the rear brake.

[Dave The Rave]

As above. Whilst riding at slow speeds or when I have to stop fast I use both brakes. Now and then a bit of a back brake to lock up the rear just to have a bit of fun.

[Tim in Belgium]

Yes, both in slow speed turns etc, normal spirited riding, some corners out on track and emergency stops. nNrmally combined with front brake, except for the slow speed stuff.

[MiniMatt]

To be honest, not a whole lot really. Probably bad form. Very very slow stuff then yes occasionally I guess, but the front brake has such a tame initial bite and is absent of any grabby behaviour so that serves me well for a lot of slow speed stuff too. In emergencies I *think* (hard to look back on genuine emergencies with clear vision) I just pile on the front and the back ends up waving about in the air anyway. And mid corner speed scrubbing is generally dealt with by turning in harder rather than trying to brake mid corner.

To be honest, the only times I really use it are holding the bike at traffic lights whilst on slight inclines.

Not saying this is correct behaviour by any means.

[ASM-Forever]

Every time i ride...i'm a bit staggered you dont use it tbh.

[Ed]

I can't pretend to understand the mechanics (as in the physics sense rtather than the nuts and bolts) of it but I was taught that applying the back brake first 'anchors' the bike to the road better and tends to stop the dive that can happen on using the front alone.

Unless you're a riding god I don't see the point in not using some of the available stopping power.

[tomjones2]

Use it loads, I find it helps for low speed control and at higher speeds when traction is low. Dont think the sv had got a great rear brake or this might just be my one.

[jambo]

Do you use your Back brake?
Yes

[plowsie]

Yes i like been in fourth, drop two bitta rear brake-age clutch out, hell of a slide! :D

[pencil shavings]

I sure do. all the time at very low speeds/traffic light/filtering.

Something to try...

...get some cones/markers etc. ride along at say 40-50 and at the marker hit the front brake. mark the distance you stopped in.

Do the same again but this time use front and back brakes - you'll be surprised just how much your stopping distance has shortened.

Ive never set out markers but when I break hard using the front and compare it to useing the front and rear together there is a massive difference, the bike really slows fast (hehe juxtaposition)
It is even more apparent on lighter bikes like my RS125.

yes i use the rear break! :cool:

[MiniMatt]

I can't pretend to understand the mechanics (as in the physics sense rtather than the nuts and bolts) of it but I was taught that applying the back brake first 'anchors' the bike to the road better and tends to stop the dive that can happen on using the front alone.

Unless you're a riding god I don't see the point in not using some of the available stopping power.

Can't understand the physics either :D I guess the bike squats under back braking so then when you apply the front you have more travel so it appears to dive less? Either way, I *think* conventional wisdom has it the other way round, ie. front first then back second, reason being as the front dives there's less weight (hence traction) over the rear, it's then easier to apply the back to the point where it almost but not quite locks; wheras if you have the back applied first then unload the back through application of the front you may find the back spontaneously locking up and have to let it off a bit.

But as I said, under true emergencies I'm pretty sure I just grab what's to hand and that's normally the right hand and the rear is floating an inch off the deck - back brake doesn't make a whole lot of difference then.

As I've also said, this probably isn't the correct approach and I'm in no way suggesting I've got it right.

[plowsie]

Does anyone use the rear if there are firing through a corner too quickly?

[markmoto]

yep everytime i ride! especialy when filtering, or on tight roundabouts etc to keep the bike steady on the throttle. The back brake is a very handy tool, just use it with caution in the wet ;-)

[plowsie]

just use it with caution in the wet ;-)
Press harder, its fun :rolleyes::cool:

[Mogs]

I've seen test film with the same experianced rider on same bike use front then back individually then both. Braking distance was considerably reduced using both. Road conditions (dry or wet) determine the proportions to use 70/30 or 50/50. How anyone knows that it's 70% beats me.

[Samnooshka]

I rarely use my rear break only really using it for slow menouvers. But then on a run, i don't really use my front break much either when entering corners and use the gears to slow me down before i get there and then on the gas to come out of them. Something that i will really have to work on when i start riding the GSXR as i am so used to having the engine to slow me down on the SV.

[johnnyrod]

Accepted wisdom is something like 75/25 front/rear or closer to 50/50 in the wet (less grip anyway). As Keith Code says "the engine is not a brake" but obviously it does slow you down - though not something you can control properly like a brake pedal. I've heard lots of people say they never use the back brake, and claims racers don't either, which is a load of garbage, unless you're Jamie Whitham and the back wheel is in the air anyway (very gald to see most of you know how to ride). I can't exaplin the physics either but whether you're on road or off, with or without an engine, the front doe sthe stopping and the back stabilises (obviously does some stopping too bt not that much).

My two penn'th for slow speed stuff e.g. junctions is I only use the front simply because you're not going that hard and it's a lot easier to control than the rear. many people are also out of the habit of using the back brake like a handbrake when waiting at junctions (i.e. just in case) but it's hardly the end of the world!

[Viney]

I rarely use my rear break only really using it for slow menouvers. But then on a run, i don't really use my front break much either when entering corners and use the gears to slow me down before i get there and then on the gas to come out of them. Something that i will really have to work on when i start riding the GSXR as i am so used to having the engine to slow me down on the SV.As my old instructor said, Gears are for going, brakes are for slowing.

[Samnooshka]

As my old instructor said, Gears are for going, brakes are for slowing.


Yeah, i just got into the habbit of it as i was over cautious with the brakes. I will always use my brakes into corners if i'm on a ride out or in a line of traffic as its safer. I also sit on my back brake at junctions and traffic lights, have always done this as a just in case thing. I tend to use the engine and brakes rather than brakes alone as i find it stops me quicker.

[Pedrosa]

For slow manouvreing I use the rear brake a lot. If I need to brake quite hard for a turn I will also use it as mentioned by others to settle the bike before turning and of course to assist the front brake in taking off some speed.

I am also very comfortable traioling the rear brake if I am a tadge too hot when already in a turn. The main secret in using the rear brake is gentle,applied pressure as opposed to stamping on it.

[Berlin]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Maybe I should have expanded a bit in the first post. Please don't take it that in not using the back brake the only braking going on (when I ride) is from the front brake, There's a *whole* lot of engine braking going on. :)

Maybe this is from by racing days but it's very difficult to lock a back tyre by going down through the box. It'll skip and hover but it's hard to get it to lock completely. It even slews sideways coming into tight turns (aiding steering) but in a very controlled way. Its like a form of ABS. The tyre is sliding but still rotating at the same time. In my dreams I wish I could do this like Jamie Whitham does in the wet. He's gobsmackingly good at this)

If you are overcooking it into a corner and use the back brake in anger, the chances are that if you aren't vertical, it's going to slide out. And if you are very hard on the front brake, even a little back brake is enough to lock the back up because all of the weight is on the front tyre, or more importatly off the rear tyre.

When you are hard on the brakes and it's going wrong, braking even harder on the front puts even more weight on the front wheel giving it even more grip (unless of course it went wrong becasue of gravel :) ). There's a good article on this in the link from the thread "A good atricle on counter steering" its one of the others on the page and describes deliberately finding the limit of front traction and releasing and reapplying pressure around this point in emergencies.

Not using the rear brake also allows you to get your foot out of the way for right handers. With your toes on the peg you have a lot more clearance and a lot more toe left on your boot. :)

In town, where you don't have the higher revs to use engine braking, I can see the use of the back brake coming into play but I generally try not to ride in heavy traffic (my rush hour is usually two rabbits and a pheasant! :) )

In the rain, I try not to brake at all and do all of my riding on engine braking.

Maybe its the case that the longer you spend in biking and the more confidense that you have the front end grip you require, the less you use the rear brake?

Carl

[biccy g]

I try and use the back brake everytime I ride the bike so I know it is working if I need to use it!

Under heavy braking I also use the back brake as I think it balances out the bike and shifts some of the weight off the front, this could all be in my head though !!

:drunken:

[Alpinestarhero]

I use the back brake more when its wet, or cold

I use it when riding slow (under 15 mph)

Other than that, theres no point, the front brakes do a fine enough job

Matt

[StreetHawk]

I haven't touched my back brake since I sold my SV.. I find it harder to get my foot on it with the CBR so as a consequence I stopped using it. Maybe I should try and get into the habit of using it again and see if my riding improves..

[scooby2102]

use both all the time, when the front starts to dip then ease on the rear and it starts to sit back up while stopping you a bit quicker

also, below 10mph I never use the front as I find it kinda destabilizes the bike

when filtering, I find it best to use the rear also as me right foot is doing nothing else anyway and I can keep better control of the throttle

[ASM-Forever]

I haven't touched my back brake since I sold my SV.. I find it harder to get my foot on it with the CBR so as a consequence I stopped using it. Maybe I should try and get into the habit of using it again and see if my riding improves..

You can't use it because your foot is at a right angle...which constanly confuses me as i think you're signalling something :p

[StreetHawk]

Tried using today and felt much smoother! Doesn't jerk around so much in traffic.. Now I don't use the front! :-)

[northwind]

If you are overcooking it into a corner and use the back brake in anger, the chances are that if you aren't vertical, it's going to slide out. And if you are very hard on the front brake, even a little back brake is enough to lock the back up because all of the weight is on the front tyre, or more importatly off the rear tyre.


Yep, but if you use the rear brake all the time then you become very unlikely to lock it up when you use it... I think most people who cause themselves bother with the rear are those who don't use it enough for it to become reflexive. If you use it in everyday riding then it soon becomes second nature and you're more likely to use it effectively when you need it.

Course, it doesn't do a huge amount in terms of braking once the weight's on the front, but every little helps... People tend to throw daft racing parallels into these threads, but what works on the track doesn't always make much sense on the road- you have much more unpredictable grip levels etc, so trying to use 100% of the front grip on every stop raises the risk levels a lot...

[Ratty46]

i use it all the time when in traffic, occasionally i wont and i'll use the front only, normally above walking pace tho.

on my scoot and can get it well sideways on the back brake:p

[Blue_SV650S]

Sometimes I use just the front, sometimes I don’t - sometimes I use the back and front, sometimes I don’t - sometimes I use just the back, sometimes I don’t!! :D

It all depends on the positions of the stars or summin with me I am afraid!!! :D

I don’t have any hard and fast rules for certain situations or anything … who the hell actually put cognitive thought into which brake to use?!!? :cyclopsani: :-D

[AndyW]

I use my rear brake to slow down, and the front to stop. *shrug* If I can see I'm going to slow down to lights its all rear brake, no front at all until 10-15 mph then a touch on the front to stop. If I'm braking (more) sharply its both.

[sinbad]

I'd say 95% of the occasions on which I slow down, I use the rear brake. I use it exclusively when manoeuvring at low speeds, and always at least brush it when riding spiritedly. I'm confident in the front, as long as I know the road surface is good, and I'm fine with pulling it hard, but the rear is there so I use it and if the road surface is not so good, I use less front brake which I suppose means proportionately more rear brake.

[dizzyblonde]

I very rarely use the back brake. Sv has loads of engine braking, so to be honest when slowing down to a junction or such I've usually more or less stopped before I have to use either. Besides your not supposed to use the back brake unless its for less than 10mph and slow U turn stuff

[sinbad]

Besides your not supposed to use the back brake unless its for less than 10mph and slow U turn stuff

Not true.

[dizzyblonde]

well I always listen to what instructors tell me and that was a few years ago. As melody said earlier, 70% front 30% back. Way back when we first met, she was using her back brake the majority of the time. She doesn't now as she was guided by the guys...and girls on here. If you use your back brake for a lot more then you'll end up wearing it out to the metal and causing yourself an injury.

[RandyO]

with the engine braking the SV has, I rarely use brakes at all, only when coming to a stop and slow speed manuvering


for canyon carving it's just roll on/roll off the throttle, if the corner warrants a lower gear for acceleration out of the corner, then the downshift is usually more than adequate to set my entry speed

when stopping, I use both, hitting the rear first (by a split second) to settle the suspension before applying the front brake

I prolly actually use the rear brake alone most, in slow speed manuvers, a slight drag on the rear brake will stabilize the bike, usually even slipping the clutch at the same time

[dizzyblonde]

Anything below about 10mph and I solely use the Back Brake. I was taught this while learning and I have to agree in slow moving traffic it keeps the bike more stable. Plus in an Emergency stop the back brake comes on practically straight after the front brake has been applied. Again I was taught this while learning and it seems to be the best system.

I can see how people live without the back brake though. I guess I had a good teacher who left his mark on me!

Korben
and others that listen to what they're taught

[Tim in Belgium]

I was taught 70/30 dry, 50/50 wet, but now use whatever combination is suitable for the conditions at the time from100/0 to 0/100 (and the total 100% at any time may only be gentle, I'm not always emergency braking ;) ) this does mean using the back brake above 10 mph.

[dizzyblonde]

I don't necessarily end up 'emergency stopping' tim, I suppose I am at one with my bike. End of the day I ride safely to the best of my knowledge-practically text book ( is that good or bad?)

[Tim in Belgium]

I was implying that when everyone talks about 70/30, 50/50 etc it's not the full effort on the brakes necessarily, and didn't want to give the impression that I'm a reckless hooligan having to do a an emergency stop before every corner. I didn't mean to imply that you were emergency stopping all the time either.

But using the back brake (in some form or other) above 10 mph is suitable in quite a lot of circumstances.

[dizzyblonde]

I was implying that when everyone talks about 70/30, 50/50 etc it's not the full effort on the brakes necessarily, and didn't want to give the impression that I'm a reckless hooligan having to do a an emergency stop before every corner. I didn't mean to imply that you were emergency stopping all the time either.

But using the back brake (in some form or other) above 10 mph is suitable in quite a lot of circumstances.
for sure tim, didn't think you were implying anything..

[toonyank]

Only 4 stopping :rolleyes:

[toonyank]

Just remember back to your CBT (if you're young enough). It's handy for slow speeds so you have better throttle control...... And it's easy.

Oh and "U" turns (CBT stuff)

[Davies]

Does anyone use the rear if there are firing through a corner too quickly?

Yep, back brake for me is always covered........helps to bring the front in if needed :D

[sinbad]

If we rode how we were taught at DAS or lower, we'd all constantly cover the clutch with our left hand, use 4 fingers on the brake all the time, keep it in gear all the time we're waiting at junctions, only put our left foot down and never filter.

There's a lot of literature about how to ride. If you know of a book which says do not use your rear brake above 10mph then I'd like to see it. I'm not saying the way you ride is wrong, but I don't like the implication that it's only the ignorant ones that don't listen to instruction who ride any differently to the way you ride.

[tomjones2]

If you use your back brake for a lot more then you'll end up wearing it out to the metal and causing yourself an injury.

Race bikes have back brakes and you will see some racers using them loads, i'm not saying that some of the techiniques they use should be used on the road but the back brake is usefull at all speeds.

If you wear out your brake pads you replace them, its why they are replaceable and why we service our bikes.

[KnightRider]

everyday. People who dont, obviously dont ride in london
+1