View Full Version : Should I confront my mate
...with his abysmal riding. I hesitate to stand in judgement, he's been riding a lot longer than I have, and different road situations call for different road responses. He is really very good, but seems to have thrown caution to the wind. Some of the things I've seen recently have left me uncomfortable and thinking that I don't want to ride with him.
A few weeks back he overtook a car towing a caravan and the car in front of that, on a slight right hand bend. He admitted later that he hadn't seen the oncoming car, excusing it on the basis that he knows how to brake from trackdays, and anyway the car was black or purple so it was no wonder he hadn't seen it. He ended up pulling in sharply, cutting up the car towing the caravan. Overtaking on blind bends, hill summits, double white lines and jumping red lights seems commonplace.
It sounds petty when I list it out so I've deleted much of what I'd typed but it doesn't change that there are too many near misses and I don't like it.
Should I say he's an accident waiting to happen, or just mind my own and STFU?
...with his abysmal riding. I hesitate to stand in judgement, he's been riding a lot longer than I have, and different road situations call for different road responses. He is really very good, but seems to have thrown caution to the wind. Some of the things I've seen recently have left me uncomfortable and thinking that I don't want to ride with him.
A few weeks back he overtook a car towing a caravan and the car in front of that, on a slight right hand bend. He admitted later that he hadn't seen the oncoming car, excusing it on the basis that he knows how to brake from trackdays, and anyway the car was black or purple so it was no wonder he hadn't seen it. He ended up pulling in sharply, cutting up the car towing the caravan. Overtaking on blind bends, hill summits, double white lines and jumping red lights seems commonplace.
It sounds petty when I list it out so I've deleted much of what I'd typed but it doesn't change that there are too many near misses and I don't like it.
Should I say he's an accident waiting to happen, or just mind my own and STFU?
Not an easy one:confused:
I think I'd probably say something................but then again I've bawled out a mate for scaring the crap out of me by overtaking on a blind bend.............and we're still mates:D
If you couch it carefully, as in 'Listen, I'm getting concerned about some of the things you're doing. You're my mate, and I don't want to lose you. Please think about what I've said, because it's getting to the stage where I'm afraid to ride with you in case the worst happens', or something along those lines, hopefully he'll at least consider what you've said.
DON'T say what I said...'If I ever see you pull a stunt like that again I'll break your ****ing legs!'
the_lone_wolf
04-09-07, 08:17 PM
just say that even if he knows what he's doing, you aren't comfortable riding with him...
i wouldn't want to be out with someone taking silly risks:o
jonboy99
04-09-07, 08:38 PM
...with his abysmal riding. I hesitate to stand in judgement, he's been riding a lot longer than I have, and different road situations call for different road responses. He is really very good, but seems to have thrown caution to the wind. Some of the things I've seen recently have left me uncomfortable and thinking that I don't want to ride with him.
A few weeks back he overtook a car towing a caravan and the car in front of that, on a slight right hand bend. He admitted later that he hadn't seen the oncoming car, excusing it on the basis that he knows how to brake from trackdays, and anyway the car was black or purple so it was no wonder he hadn't seen it. He ended up pulling in sharply, cutting up the car towing the caravan. Overtaking on blind bends, hill summits, double white lines and jumping red lights seems commonplace.
It sounds petty when I list it out so I've deleted much of what I'd typed but it doesn't change that there are too many near misses and I don't like it.
Should I say he's an accident waiting to happen, or just mind my own and STFU?
Sounds like he knows how risky his riding is. Has he always ridden like this? How's his mood etc?
If I were saying something similar, i'd just say I was worried he was going to end up injured, and I wasn't willing to watch that happen to him. Otherwise pretty big chance he'll get all defensive if he's more expereinced than you, or just a typical bloke..
Firstly it does not sound petty.
"Overtaking on blind bends, hill summits, double white lines and jumping red lights seems commonplace."
That sounds awful. Totally dangerous and reckless. He is not only putting his own life at risk, but lots of other people as well.
I have a cager friend who drives like a true idiot and I have told him many times. He has crashed more cars than you can shake a stick at. I spent a long time refusing to be a passenger when he was driving. It got through eventually.
Personally I would take a softly softly approach.
I guess my approach would be to make him aware that you are concerned for his health and well being and like has already been said, you don't want to lose a friend. I suppose to make him feel better I would compliment on his riding ability, but suggest that he keeps that kind of aggressive riding to track days which has things like run off's, and everyone going the same way.
A difficult one to call, but if he is a real friend then he should understand. If he does not then tell him you won't be riding with him again. My mate knows that if his driving gets out of line when I am with him he gets a mouthful from me, and even though he hates it at the time, he always agrees with me eventually.
Hope this helps
Korben.
Alpinestarhero
04-09-07, 09:04 PM
Drag him along to a bikesafe course.
Personally, I would write down all the things i can rmember and then tell him the most serious things.
Sure, he can do all this stuff on a track day - but thata a track. Perfect surface, all one-way traffic, lots of run off, marshalls, ambulance on standby.
The road is a road. bad surface. No marshalls. Ambulance at least 30mins away. Trees. Oncoming traffic. White lines. Tell him to calm down, or dont ride with him.
Matt
fizzwheel
04-09-07, 09:13 PM
Personally I'd just tell him straight, he's probably not going to like it, In my experience people dont take to riding crtique well so he's probably going to get annoyed at you. But if you feel strongly that he's placing himself and you when riding together in danger then you've gotta speak up, or vote with your feet and tell him you're not going out with him anymore till he's stopped riding like a tw*t.
Personally I'd vote with my feet and not ride with him anymore and make sure he knew why.
squirrel_hunter
04-09-07, 09:14 PM
Yes talk to him.
I've spoken to others before and would have no problem doing it again. I hope that they would do the same to me if need be.
muffles
04-09-07, 09:15 PM
I did an effective communications course at work 2 weeks ago - woo :rolleyes:
Anyway what I would say is that remember it's not what you say, it's how you say it - I think it was something like 60% of the message is in your body language, 30% is in your tone, and only 10% is the words you say.
scorpion
04-09-07, 10:37 PM
I did an effective communications course at work 2 weeks ago - woo :rolleyes:
Anyway what I would say is that remember it's not what you say, it's how you say it - I think it was something like 60% of the message is in your body language, 30% is in your tone, and only 10% is the words you say.
Not been on the course but that sounds pretty much right to me! :thumbsup:
therealvw
04-09-07, 10:58 PM
Are you trying to keep up with him when he does the daft things?
What you could do is just slow right down and possibly even just stop and see if he notices. Wait for him to come back to see where you are and just tell him that he gave you a fright and didn't want to get sucked in being a d**k and follow him doing stupid things.
Ratty46
05-09-07, 03:00 AM
i ride with two mates reguarly, one has been riding for 2 years, the other 17 years,both are very good mates of mine- i ride with them seperately.
the lesser experienced mate has had 1 big accident, he wrote off a gixxa6,, that slowed him down...i often have to tell him to slow down, or not overtake so much where as the more experienced mate seems to know how much i will push it, and he takes less risks than the lesser experienced chap
when i go out with ricky(lesser) he often goes a bit quicker than i like to go, so i often drop back when i dont feel comfertable,he notices this and slows down,or at the lights i will tell him to slow down i'm not comfertable with that etc, being my mate he understands this, and doesnt push me into going faster than i can handle.
he also helps me, he often follows me and tells me where i could improve , and it does helps. talk to him, if he's your mate he'll understand and wait for ya!
one of the most imporatnt things i have learnt on my 4 weeks on a big bike.....dont try and keep up with people that are quicker than you and that take risks that you wouldnt....it leads to BIG mistakes...
Mike2165
05-09-07, 07:16 AM
I would hope someone wopuld let me know if I were riding danderously or wrecklessly. Sometimes when I get impatient in slow traffic, I have to say to myself 'No heroics' usually works, then I calm down, take stock and wait till it's safe.
Ed, knowing who you,re talking about i,d just keep quiet and let him get on with it, just don,t try to follow what he does. I,ve been told by others who know him that his riding leave a bit to be desired, with his experience he probably wouldn,t take any notice anyway.
Daryl.
Jelster
05-09-07, 07:35 AM
Personally I'd just tell him straight.....
If he really is a friend, then he'll listen. I've had mates comment on my riding before, even while we were in France last week, and I comment on theirs also.
Basically, if he wants to continue riding with you he needs to sort out his attitude, as:
A) You'll end up getting tarred with the same brush
B) You're the poor bugger that'll be calling his family with the bad news.
Tell him like it is. He can ride like a kn** when he's on his own if he wants, but when you ride together he puts his brain in gear (or he may not have a brain left to save...)
.
Ed. I've no wise words for you, but I would welcome someone telling me if i were to start doing stupid things. Of course I may not like it at the time, but I hope I would be smart enough to reflect upon the message. I certainly wouldn't want to lose a mate because they care enough about me to say something.
petevtwin650
05-09-07, 07:41 AM
Personally I'd have a word.
Imagine if, god forbid, he bins it big time and you hadn't said something. I know I would feel some guilt. If he doesn't change his riding style then you've done all you can for him and it's then your decision whether you continue to ride with him.
Make sure he leaves something to you in his will!
Id say something.
It was the overtaking incident with the caravan that really frightened me and I was sure that the fire service were going to be hosing the road, it was one of those heart in mouth moments.. He uses his undoubted skills (in essence he is a good rider, I think) - and a very fast bike - to get himself out of trouble. But from having been a careful rider it suddenly seems like the brakes are off, leaving absolutely no margin for error. I dunno what to do... like I said, I hesitate to criticise as I'm not exactly qualified to do so but I'm getting concerned and I'm thinking of pointing out the imperfections...
Jelster
05-09-07, 07:51 AM
Id say something.
I can quite imagine that too.... Don't think I'd want to be on the end of a Viney *ollocking :mad:.
Viney, I'd leave you my original 12" collection from the late 70's/early 80's. Some real old skool classics in there....
.
Don't need to be too qualified to tell when someone is taking too many risks, tell it to him straight as mentioned before, hes probably got over confident after many years of riding and track days and he needs to be taken down to planet earth before he really does hit the earth.
Think about it another way, what if you dont tell him and the next time hes out or your out together he bites in on a corner, you will feel awful knowing that you could of prevented it, that you stood by and let him ride like this and said nothing.
Tell him now before it gets worse.
fizzwheel
05-09-07, 08:07 AM
It was the overtaking incident with the caravan that really frightened me and I was sure that the fire service were going to be hosing the road, it was one of those heart in mouth moments.. He uses his undoubted skills (in essence he is a good rider, I think) - and a very fast bike - to get himself out of trouble. But from having been a careful rider it suddenly seems like the brakes are off, leaving absolutely no margin for error. I dunno what to do... like I said, I hesitate to criticise as I'm not exactly qualified to do so but I'm getting concerned and I'm thinking of pointing out the imperfections...
You should just say to him what you've written above and then take it from there.
Spanner Man
05-09-07, 08:09 AM
Morning all.
It sounds as if your mates ego is 'bigging' him up on his road riding. I.E. 'I know how to brake from doing trackdays'. What a load of piffle!
Sadly it's an all to common occurrence. I've lost count of the number of riders I know that have had an accident (or worse) due to a 'mate' riding like a Pr**k.
I would have a pretty strong word with him, after all it's not just him that could end up dead or injured. It could be some poor sod just minding his own business.
As road users we all have a responsibility to each other, a little fact that our wonderful bike press rarely point out, as they're more interested in writing articles on how to get your knee down, or pull the perfect wheelie.
Most of us drive cars don't we? Ask yourselves, when you're driving how many times do you see a biker riding like a complete ****, & what sort of image do you think that presents to the mainly non biking public?
In short, there's a time & a place for this sort of riding, & that is on the track & not the road.
Cheers.
plowsie
05-09-07, 09:00 AM
I started riding like a nob for a while, not caring about things etc. I had reasons for it but looking back on it i think they weren't legitimate enough to be close to killing myself. Following riders like Mike and Dave a couple of times, has taught me i can still be quick without being a total hoon, it was my parents who told me off at Silverstone in the Car Park at the GT Championships, I left my mate with my helmet to put in the car while i parked up, i pulled a wheelie as i chocked off, got off mum walked over and went crazy.
I think at one point or another most of us have a silly point where we get stupid. I may have another one (fingers crossed i don't) again. Best is just to say "mate dont you think your riding is a bit rash at the mo, i'm a bit worried about you sometimes mate". Something along those lines.
Not much good in these sort of situations lol.
I can quite imagine that too.... Don't think I'd want to be on the end of a Viney *ollocking :mad:.
Viney, I'd leave you my original 12" collection from the late 70's/early 80's. Some real old skool classics in there....
.What do ya mean? In all honesty, i dont think i have ever 'had a go' at someone. I may have said ' that was a bit close'. My own riding needs a lot to be desired sometimes, so far be it for me to criticise others...There are some people that i wont ride with, and i just dont ride with them plain and simple.
As for the 12" collection, ta mate, i appreciate that :)
If you can find a way to mention it in words then that's got to be best for you, if not them. If not then I'd go with voting with your feet. Either drop right back when they go to far or just don't ride with them. If they ask why that's a good time to say something, even if it's only one sentance.
The easy way out is to stop riding with him.
The hard way is to consider how you would feel if something happened to him (while riding with or without you) and if you care enough to say something, then do so.
Can't you get him to go to IAM with you?
.
gettin2dizzy
05-09-07, 09:55 AM
Every time he rides like that and no one mentions how stupid it is, the more relaxed he'll be about it, and the more normal it will seem. Maybe he's forgotten what normal riding is like day to day
Jelster
05-09-07, 09:59 AM
What do ya mean?
I just wouldn't like being on the end of a wound up Viney full stop.... You're bigger than me, and that haircut makes you look "well 'ard" :D
.
I just wouldn't like being on the end of a wound up Viney full stop.... You're bigger than me, and that haircut makes you look "well 'ard" :D
.:lol: Ta...i think
I would agree that you should say something to him. After all, if you are following him and he causes an accident, you could get caught in the ensuing after math and get hurt yourself. Also if you are watching him because you are worried about his riding then you are leaving less observation time for you. If he doesnt listen to you then perhaps you shouldnt ride with him, just to protect yourself.
Nice but firm is the order of the day I think.
Fizzy Fish
05-09-07, 03:45 PM
I agree that you should have a word with him. As a good friend he will probably respect your opinion about stuff in general - though I'm guessing that his riding standards will be a sensitive topic!
One option would be to approach it by saying that you've heard about some accidents recently/realised that you need to back it off on the road a bit more, and that when you ride together you'd prefer to take it a bit easier. That way it's less about him, but he gets the message that you're not expecting him to take every chance to get past traffic, etc. If it doesn't work though, you'll have to be more direct.
Oh and if you need any motivation to have that word...
A couple of weeks ago a friend of mine went out for a ride with a group of people, one of whom was clearly out of his depth trying to keep up with the guys at the front. Now my mate's very quick himself, but knows where to draw the line, and was holding back a bit, following the guy in question. He noticed that this guy was making mistakes - running wide, dodgy overtakes, etc. He decided to flag him down and tell him to take it easy and run at a pace he was comfortable with. But before he could do so they came round a corner to find the road blocked by a tractor. The others had all stopped, as did my mate, but this guy went straight into it - bike totalled, 2 broken legs.
CoolGirl
05-09-07, 03:46 PM
Ed, I know you well enough to know that whatever you say is unlikely to be said with ill will or to offend, and he probably does as well. So if you're worried about hurting his feelings, don't be!
Biker Biggles
05-09-07, 04:36 PM
Id have a word too.Maybe raise it as a bit of a joke to start with,and play it from there?Then end up with "but seriously bla bla bla?"
Blue_SV650S
05-09-07, 06:18 PM
You have to ask yourself this simple question ... if he ends up dead or badly injured will it make you wish you had said something??? If the prospect of that is worse than the prospect of confronting him, then do it!!! ;)
You might also find he is riding harder/making more risky moves than he would alone, purely as he wants to impress or aware you are behind!!!
I'd just say something very simple and throw away, like "Dude, you are one larey b-steward, to be honest I can't keep up and some of the stuff you do scares me!!! Unless you slow down I am not coming riding with you any more as I find myself taking more risks than I would like to try and keep up and I am gonna come a cropper!!"
That way you are both massaging his ego, but still getting your point across ... problem solved ;)
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