View Full Version : Born again bikers and newbs.
stuartyboy
05-09-07, 12:27 PM
Reading thru an earlier post about statistics...seems to be a fair bit of criticism and finger pointing aimed at BAB's and newbs.
Say you've passed your DAS a year or two years ago. You're back to biking or a newb. But you ride all year round from the minute you pass your test. You have say 1 or 2 offs but carry on regardless. When do you lose the tag of born gain biker or newb - if at all.
Whats to say someone who passes their test and starts work as a courier for example - riding every day. What do you class them as after 6 months/year etc.
Who's to say that a newb/BAB can't take to the road and ride as safely and confidently as someone with 20 years under ther saddle?
It's like you're 1000 posts on here as a Mega poster!
I reckon 10,000 miles to lose your BAB Newb tag
Whats to say someone who passes their test and starts work as a courier for example - riding every day. What do you class them as after 6 months/year etc.
Battlescared?
DanAbnormal
05-09-07, 01:09 PM
I've ridden almost everyday since I passed my CBT in May 2003. I worked out that I've done about 150'000 miles thus far. Yet my friend who only rides on sunny weekends every summer classes himself as a much more experienced rider than me as he has had his licence for about 10 years or so. I keep telling him experience is based on mileage, not how long you've had your licence. To no longer be a newbie I would say you should have ridden in adverse weather, through at least 1 winter and also done a fair few miles, 10'000 is about right imho.
SoulKiss
05-09-07, 01:16 PM
I've ridden almost everyday since I passed my CBT in May 2003. I worked out that I've done about 150'000 miles thus far. Yet my friend who only rides on sunny weekends every summer classes himself as a much more experienced rider than me as he has had his licence for about 10 years or so. I keep telling him experience is based on mileage, not how long you've had your licence. To no longer be a newbie I would say you should have ridden in adverse weather, through at least 1 winter and also done a fair few miles, 10'000 is about right imho.
Must have
1) Had a "proper" off. This means that an Ambulance must have been involved.
2) Broken a bone - extra points for scars.
3) Got points on your license.
4) Turned up to at least one event that Rictus AND Sid Squid were at.
Mind you, all going well I will have done my 10k miles in my 1st year, which will be marked a week on Friday (14th Sept)
Must have
1) Had a "proper" off. This means that an Ambulance must have been involved.
Why?........:confused:
I've been riding bikes 11 years now...
Must have
1) Had a "proper" off. This means that an Ambulance must have been involved. So far this has not happened to me, so why?
2) Broken a bone - extra points for scars. No scars just a broken thumb
3) Got points on your license. Not anymore, but a total of 12 in those 11 years
4) Turned up to at least one event that Rictus AND Sid Squid were at.
Err... lost track of how many... and does Soho meet count as a event?
Mind you, all going well I will have done my 10k miles in my 1st year, which will be marked a week on Friday (14th Sept)
I would hate to try and figure out the distance I've traveled.
pencil shavings
05-09-07, 01:27 PM
Am I still a newbee then? :confused::confused::(
Riding since I passed my cbt when i was 17, rs125, full test when 19 drz400e when I was 21, 22 almost 23 now. sv now.
There have been spells where i couldnt afford the bike so I recon I have not done 10,000 miles yet, maybe 7/8,000.
Ridden in torrental rain, snow :shaking: (that was scary) and lovly sunshine!
never had a proper crash, and no biking scars
where do i fit in?
I knew someone who'd been riding bikes over 20 years and not ever been involved in a crash.
SoulKiss
05-09-07, 01:32 PM
I knew someone who'd been riding bikes over 20 years and not ever been involved in a crash.
Rank amateur then !!!!
:P
SoulKiss
05-09-07, 01:33 PM
Am I still a newbee then? :confused::confused::(
Riding since I passed my cbt when i was 17, rs125, full test when 19 drz400e when I was 21, 22 almost 23 now. sv now.
There have been spells where i couldnt afford the bike so I recon I have not done 10,000 miles yet, maybe 7/8,000.
Ridden in torrental rain, snow :shaking: (that was scary) and lovly sunshine!
never had a proper crash, and no biking scars
where do i fit in?
NOOOB!!!!
SoulKiss
05-09-07, 01:36 PM
Must have
1) Had a "proper" off. This means that an Ambulance must have been involved.
2) Broken a bone - extra points for scars.
3) Got points on your license.
4) Turned up to at least one event that Rictus AND Sid Squid were at.
Mind you, all going well I will have done my 10k miles in my 1st year, which will be marked a week on Friday (14th Sept)
Ok folks, THIS WAS A JOKE and is a very summarised list of my last 12 months.
No, I dont regard myself as a riding god.
Was just in a silly mood when this topic came up !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why does it matter and why the insistance on labeling people?
pencil shavings
05-09-07, 01:41 PM
Why does it matter and why must the insistance on labeling people?
Its just a label, Im confident it my riding abilitly so it dosent bother me. other labels are more of a problem but somthing like this isnt an issue to me.
pencil shavings
05-09-07, 01:42 PM
Ok folks, THIS WAS A JOKE and is a very summarised list of my last 12 months.
No, I dont regard myself as a riding god.
Was just in a silly mood when this topic came up !!!!!!!!!!!!!
I thought this could ONLY be taken as a joke :p
Tim in Belgium
05-09-07, 01:43 PM
Well I label myself Tim, or my parents did......
You can always get more experience, and you never seem to stop learning whilst biking.
[quote=SoulKiss;1279071]Must have
1) Had a "proper" off. This means that an Ambulance must have been involved.
An ambulance was called for the ped that jumped out at me at all of about 5-10 mph
2) Broken a bone - extra points for scars.
Nope
3) Got points on your license.
Does getting 3 on your licence for your car count...11 years ago?
4) Turned up to at least one event that Rictus AND Sid Squid were at.
Name badges, people, name badges. Then I can tick 'em of in my Observer Book of Orgers
[quote]
Ride all winter, except snow. Driven in thunderstorms on the M3...filtering thru' slow moving traffic at the time. No idea of my mileage since Feb last year.
Ceri JC
05-09-07, 01:58 PM
I've ridden almost everyday since I passed my CBT in May 2003. I worked out that I've done about 150'000 miles thus far. Yet my friend who only rides on sunny weekends every summer classes himself as a much more experienced rider than me as he has had his licence for about 10 years or so. I keep telling him experience is based on mileage, not how long you've had your licence. To no longer be a newbie I would say you should have ridden in adverse weather, through at least 1 winter and also done a fair few miles, 10'000 is about right imho.
My opinion entirely. Mileage is the key to experience on a bike, not how long you've held a licence. Arguably, the more recently those miles were done, the better, as you are more in touch with contemporary road conditions, driving practices, (provided it's done on a fairly recent machine) modern machinery, etc. One of my colleagues has had a licence for 40 odd years. How far has he ridden? about 3,000 summer miles, which were done decades ago. How is he remotely "experienced"? :)
I remember reading a thing about advanced riding training and it basically reckoned that doing and passing IAM/Rospa/similar essentially added the equivalent of about 3 years experience. I don't know if that's accurate, but I think you probably get most out of it if you do it whilst you're still fairly inexperienced, although of course, you still get people who've ridden for 20 years coming away from the course having learned a few useful things.
I hope I didn't offend anyone and incidentally, if it's any consolation, with a mere 3 years and a bit years of riding and "only" 31K+ miles under my belt (including 2 winters and a bit of riding in snow and ice), I still class myself within the "DAS n00bs" group I was talking about as being high in the accident stats. I wasn't slating the groups concerned, merely saying that they were over-represented in accidents.
busasean
05-09-07, 02:08 PM
Must have
1) Had a "proper" off. This means that an Ambulance must have been involved.
2) Broken a bone - extra points for scars.
3) Got points on your license.
4) Turned up to at least one event that Rictus AND Sid Squid were at.
Mind you, all going well I will have done my 10k miles in my 1st year, which will be marked a week on Friday (14th Sept)
1) see no. 2
2) broken both collar bones twice, both shoulders, right wrist and scaphoid, right ankle and 3 ribs so far.
3) had lots of points , including speeding, speeding careless driving (wheelies down Barkingside High Street arent big nor clever - so I'm told!)speeding and more speeding! including 3 court appearances.
4) been to Rictus's house - does that count?
currently cover about 45,000 miles per year, never had an insurance claim against me. and i luuuuuurve bikes!:)
Pedro68
05-09-07, 02:12 PM
I'm definitely still classing myself as a "noob", and I don't mind the "tag" at the moment.
EDIT: Passed my test last October.
I'll be the first to admit that I need to improve various aspects of my riding (like corners!). Have to say my NDIS course did me a "power of good", and I'd agree with Ceri who mentioned that participating in some form of advanced rider training whilst still relatively inexperienced is WELL WORTH IT. It's made my riding a lot smoother :D
Oh and not only did I have an ambulance attend my first "off", but I also managed to get a section of the M602/M62 closed off for an hour LMAO.
I've also rode through pretty much MOST of last winter (except for the snow, when as luck would have it, my bike was in for repair following my first "off"!).
Have no idea how many miles I've clocked up until I get my bike back and look at the odo, but I'd be surprised if it was 10,000! Although I've done about 3,000 on the courtesy bike I have :) LOL
No broken bones as yet, but been DAMN sore from my 2 offs (and still have a minor niggle with my elbow following my 2nd off 2 months ago :rolleyes: and yes, I've been the docs - fluid appeared on the elbow 5 weeks after off, and although its gone now, I have a tiny little "dent" in my elbow and it's still slightly painful).
Still learning ;-)
Pete
interesting post this one!! personally i dont mind what people think of me or my riding, i enjoy it and would much rather be on my bike than getting the bus or train or something!!!
so for a bit of fun where does wooly fit in here then.....
did my first cbt at 17, then another at 19, whilst riding the worst bike i ever owned, a yam sr125 i must have put 5000 on that easy, i thought i was cool and went everywhere on it!!,
then i did my das in april last year at 21 and had a cb400 super four, was lovely when it ran (had a major compression problem and needed a bump start most days) then in july last year i saw the light and bought my SV, from new on july 4th last yr its done just over 11000 miles and on monday i did my second trackday on it,
also spent way too much money on it cos yes, i had my first crash :( i got the full house, two ambulances, two police cars and a fire engine?!?!? even made the 5live traffic report cos of the tailback i created :)
oooh points for speeding 3 weeks after picking it up, so now i am a very well behaved lass ;)
SoulKiss
05-09-07, 02:51 PM
interesting post this one!! personally i dont mind what people think of me or my riding, i enjoy it and would much rather be on my bike than getting the bus or train or something!!!
so for a bit of fun where does wooly fit in here then.....
did my first cbt at 17, then another at 19, whilst riding the worst bike i ever owned, a yam sr125 i must have put 5000 on that easy, i thought i was cool and went everywhere on it!!,
then i did my das in april last year at 21 and had a cb400 super four, was lovely when it ran (had a major compression problem and needed a bump start most days) then in july last year i saw the light and bought my SV, from new on july 4th last yr its done just over 11000 miles and on monday i did my second trackday on it,
also spent way too much money on it cos yes, i had my first crash :( i got the full house, two ambulances, two police cars and a fire engine?!?!? even made the 5live traffic report cos of the tailback i created :)
oooh points for speeding 3 weeks after picking it up, so now i am a very well behaved lass ;)
First post of yours I have seen I think Wooly
Did you get your welcome to the Red Pointy club ?
Ceri JC
05-09-07, 02:54 PM
Did you get your welcome to the Red Pointy club ?
What's that, "SHOULD-A GOT-A BLACK ONE!"? :D
SoulKiss
05-09-07, 02:58 PM
What's that, "SHOULD-A GOT-A BLACK ONE!"? :D
Black with Black frame = almost as good as a Red one
Black with Silver frame - sorry, just not up to scratch...........
K3 = prototype pointy :P
Well, you started it !!!!!
:) :) :) :) :) :)
i did indeed get a welcome a while back when i first registered! however after a house move and having no internet i've been away for a while, but here i am..... and yes, red with black frame is my fave (or i wouldnt have bought it i guess!!) but not going to start the pointy/curvy debate again!!!!
just amused by the responses in the first post :)
i think of myself as kinda nooob but pretty much out of it,i think on the last yr alone without looking at the years before that?!?!? oooh who know...indeed who cares!!!
Jackie_Black
05-09-07, 03:41 PM
I'm a road bike noob but riding 250 crossers in the snow as a teenager has given me the ability to laugh and relax when the tail slides a bit instead of freaking out tensing up and tankslapping all over the shop.
But with only 600 road miles i'm gonna have to work hard to shake the noob tag.
Does carrying pillions count as extra miles? I think its harder to ride two up.:)
JediGoat
05-09-07, 03:50 PM
Must have
1) Had a "proper" off. This means that an Ambulance must have been involved.
2) Broken a bone - extra points for scars.
3) Got points on your license.
4) Turned up to at least one event that Rictus AND Sid Squid were at.
Mind you, all going well I will have done my 10k miles in my 1st year, which will be marked a week on Friday (14th Sept)
1. One ambulance, about 15 coppers (on foot), one bike cop, over a dozen local workmen, several passers by, and three fire engines :king: Also got mentioned on radio that the Euston Road was at a standstill because of an accident.
2. I don't snap...I bounce. Have a (small) scar though.
3. Not a single one....ever O:)
4. Oh....erm....may be caught out on this one.....
I am happy to class myself as a biking n00b. Been riding less than 3 years, no idea how many miles I've done, but I'd guess around 10k. Almost all of my riding has been done in London, never really got to do the country roads....yet.
I think because of where I ride, I'm still not happy with my riding style - i have a tendency to be overcautious and not trust myself or the bike. Still, I'm planning on doing Bikesafe next month and hoping I can get some feedback on my riding.
Jo
DanAbnormal
05-09-07, 04:12 PM
I could be in trouble then. Despite really trying quite hard I have no points on my licence at all.
What can I say, I'm just far too sensible on the road.........;)
Ratty46
05-09-07, 05:19 PM
erm....yeah i'm a noob!
i have 5 weeks under my belt! have done a 1000miles in that time...:)
been to brands hatch WSB round,ace cafe (every friday) dickie turpun(last night), chasing my mates ZX12-R through kent then back to chaseing my mates blade through essex......survived a naughty tank slapper...not been caught speeding...and not had an off on my SV yet or my scoot for that matter.
i'm nearly there...only 9000 miles to go ;)
Alpinestarhero
05-09-07, 05:31 PM
I consider myself less of a new rider, but not enough to be experianced. I lack machine control and skill, but I think I have quite good road skills (reading traffic etc). Not to say my machine control isnt good though, I'm a decent rider (but still alot to learn!)
I reckon I hae about 7000 miles under my belt from riding the SV and riding the scooter for a couple of years.
Matt
Alpinestarhero
05-09-07, 05:33 PM
Oh, a mention for Dave (Baph), since he's not here to speak for himself. He's had his full licence about the same time as me (about a year), and the last time I spoke to him about his milage, it was over 25,000 miles....
Matt
Ratty46
05-09-07, 06:20 PM
your always learning....
adding scooter miles would bring me up to around 6-7000 mark, my scoot has 27,000 on teh clock...before it packed up...so now well over 30.000!
-Ralph-
05-09-07, 08:09 PM
Hmm, interesting concept, 10K miles doesn't seem that much to me, but average mileage is only something like 4K a year because of so much recreational use?
I'm a born again biker in a sense, Honda MT5 at age 16 then various bigger bikes up to a CBR600F at 19 covering about 20000 in that time. Then a 12 year break other than various holiday rentals, before a new SV last May which has now covered a bit over 10500.
I've certainly never been intimidated by the SV, the CBR was quicker, but I wouldn't say that I'm a 100% confident, experienced, rider either. Things like steep downhill corners still have me crawling along like a newbie. I never felt I had the same problem as a teenager, but then I had no fear. At that age crashes are definately an important part of the learning curve!
So 30000 miles in 14 years, but I'm not sure that I've got the experience of somebody who's done ten years at 3000.
Jackie_Black
05-09-07, 08:15 PM
I've just been practising looking ahead all night and also discovered you can do naughty wheelspins on the gravel road outside my friends house!
Ceri JC
06-09-07, 08:42 AM
I've just been practising looking ahead all night and also discovered you can do naughty wheelspins on the gravel road outside my friends house!
He he, gravel roads are great fun. Really easy to turn the bike in a tight circle by spinning the back up with your left foot down. I do this at my gf's parents place regularly to turn the bike round before parking up. I can even do it 'around' cars, etc. now. Just make sure you don't use your front brake (at all) on it. :)
Jester666
06-09-07, 09:25 AM
Whats to say someone who passes their test and starts work as a courier for example - riding every day. What do you class them as after 6 months/year etc.
That's what I did!! :D One month after passing! Ohh boy, you learn very fast how to ride in traffic! :shock:
I'm apparently classed as a hooligan/liability!!
Battlescared?
Yep!! :D Been there, crashed that, got the scars/broken bones! :D
Alpinestarhero
06-09-07, 09:34 AM
I'm apparently classed as a hooligan/liability!!
I've seen him ride! its true!
Maybe, I dunno
Matt
MiniMatt
06-09-07, 09:54 AM
Interesting thread :D I'd go along with the consensus and say mileage in varying conditions is what counts rather than licence age.
My dad, an ex-biker whose missus won't allow him the "born again" bit offered me his words of biking wisdom - "never use the front brake", he told me, "you'll go over the handlebars". Gee thanks for that dad :D On pointing out the two massive front brake discs and the titchy single rear one he finally conceded, with "things must have changed in the last 30 years then". So, you heard it from my dad, that's right, the laws of physics have changed in the last 30 years :D
I'm not sure if they're compulsory but I do think crashes are an important part of experience. Every crash I've had I've learnt something; in no particular order:
1. Don't be a prat
2. Don't show off
3. Don't hammer the front brake mid corner
4. Give Volvos a wide berth
5. Knee sliders would see more tarmac action if they were fixed to my backside
6. Give BMWs a wide berth
7. Don't be a prat (again)
8. Avoid wet manhole covers
9. Give all cars a wide berth
10. Don't be a prat (yet again)
Are you still a newb if you've never passed your test though? If someone's spent 20 years riding a CG125 on L's every day, every weather then surely they are more experienced than someone who's passed their DAS a year ago, but are they still a newb if they don't have a full licence?
P.S. I've been riding since 16, passed test a year ago and still think of myself as a bit of a newb.
rictus01
06-09-07, 10:36 AM
It's simple, the first million miles are all learning \\:D/
Cheers Mark.
Ceri JC
06-09-07, 11:19 AM
It's simple, the first million miles are all learning \\:D/
Cheers Mark.
:winner:
SoulKiss
06-09-07, 11:22 AM
If someone's spent 20 years riding a CG125 on L's every day
See, that scenario to me is just wrong.
If after 20 years you could not sit and pass a test then you should not be on the road.
If after 2 years you could not sit and pass a test seems like a good cut-off.
Dont even mention the number of couriers on L-plates.....
Dicky Ticker
06-09-07, 04:13 PM
For what its worth,I have been riding bikes for 45years,had a couple of bad offs in this time but always worked on the principle"Well I won't do that again" I agree with the opinion that people who ride every day probably feel more relaxed with their riding.My average mileage on the bike is about 6000 a year but I do feel better,relaxed or confident,don't quite know how to describe it after riding a few days in succession than just jumping on the bike for the Sunday rideout
Subsitute Roadcraft for the word Experience and it takes on a whole new meaning as between truck,car and bike I have averaged 75-100,000 miles a year for the last 25+
years and yes I am still learning
-Ralph-
06-09-07, 05:12 PM
Are you still a newb if you've never passed your test though? If someone's spent 20 years riding a CG125 on L's every day, every weather then surely they are more experienced than someone who's passed their DAS a year ago, but are they still a newb if they don't have a full licence?
P.S. I've been riding since 16, passed test a year ago and still think of myself as a bit of a newb.
Wow, they really made those CG125's to last 20 years ago didn't they!:D
On a serious note, it probably counts in terms of hazard awareness, anticipation, etc, but you don't learn any technique on a powered bicycle.
Wow, they really made those CG125's to last 20 years ago didn't they!:D
Ok, what I actually meant was 18 yrs (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1989-HONDA-CG125-BR-J-RED_W0QQitemZ180154580303QQihZ008QQcategoryZ9806QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) :D 40,000 miles and still going strong :notworthy:
Oh Dear,With allthis talk of crashes, Im thinking of selling up and getting a 4x4
-Ralph-
07-09-07, 08:47 PM
Ok, what I actually meant was 18 yrs (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1989-HONDA-CG125-BR-J-RED_W0QQitemZ180154580303QQihZ008QQcategoryZ9806QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) :D 40,000 miles and still going strong :notworthy:
I was more poking fun at the concept of the same person having rode the same CG125, every day, in every weather, for 20 years, and all that averaging only 5 1/2 miles a day!
Still pretty impressive that this one's nearly fulfilled the 20 years! Though I doubt it'd still be alive if it really had been used every day and run through 20 british winters.
My SV got 10000 on it in the first year and didn't even manage the first winter without the silver laquer bubbling up all over the place! Made of cheese spread!
ThEGr33k
08-09-07, 12:13 AM
Ive done about 28,000 miles since i passed my test 2 and a bit years ago, 21k on my 2 years ond SV.
As for experience i think there isnt such a deffinition between "n00b" and old hat. No matter what on a bike you are ALWAYS learning, anyone who thinks otherwise will no doubt be an "l33t n00b" who will cause accidents!
Accidents dont have much to do with exp, i think its more common since... Going round that blind corner on the wrong side of the road on the back wheel seems like a bad idea, i dont need to test the situation to know it was a bad idea!
I have fallen off twice and been pulled out on (but managed to stay on - long story) and to be honest there isnt much i could have done about any of them. 1st watch out for Mud... Obvious, 2nd watch out for diesel again obvious. 3rd be aware of junctions on blind corners another obvious. Me actually doing these things wrong only warned me that my assumtions were quite correct!
So get what you can from your own Exp and others! And TOP TIP use common sence! [-o<
northwind
08-09-07, 01:20 AM
I'm neither a noob or a born again. However, I'm still rubbish. Nobody pigeonholes the Northwind!
-Ralph-
08-09-07, 11:08 AM
and to be honest there isnt much i could have done about any of them
Read the motorcycle roadcraft book. Rightly or wrongly (everyone has different ideas) it uses the concept that you are responsible for EVERYTHING that happens to you on a bike.
If somebody pulled out on you why hadn't you anticipated it happenening and slowed down? If you hit gravel on the road and come off (ALA, me last week, not much damage :rolleyes:), why were you going so quick that you couldn't avoid it? etc, etc
It quotes statistics that show the people who believe they were not at fault in an accident, repeat the accident in the same circumstances a few years later, because the brain had not learned anything from the previous accident.
Everytime you come off a bike, regardless of circumstance, secretly take the blame and call yourself a w@nk3r afterwards (obviously blame everyone else in front of police, solicitor and insurance company!).
It may not be possible to apply it to every circumstance, but it's an interesting ideal, and I think a good one to follow.
northwind
08-09-07, 12:08 PM
Yep, certainly I work from the assumption that I could've avoided something, until proven otherwise. 2 of mine I think I can honestly say I was blameless, in fact one I saved from a very nasty crash into a simple lowside, but the others... Well, a mix of entirely my fault and mostly my fault. You can't fix a problem til you face it
vBulletin® , Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.