Getting Boring?? (also vote on traction control ban)

[ThEGr33k]

Well the last few races have been a little boring casey buggers off and everyone else follows... I think there were about 3 overtaking menouvers in the last race in Italy. For me it isnt a spectical like it used to be. I mean yea Rossi won a lot before but it was always in style with some big battles generally over the last few laps (Sete Gibernau!!!! That was always ace!).

i think i know the reason and i believe it is traction control, where have the power slides gone? Yea ok they are smaller now 800cc etc etc but that was always ACE to watch again, i think traction control has taken too much away from the riders right hand! Yea its prototype but its still supposed to be a spectical where people enjoy the racing and im not atm.

Another thing while im bitching, im fed up of people raving about Casey, yea he is good but i dont think he is as good as people say, look at him last year! Someone who crashed so much shouldnt get praise... I think his current form is also down to the traction control (and the obvious duke power on the streights).
Reason i say this is that when you listen to him lap you can tell he gets on the power way before anyone else, you can hear the traction control kicking in and letting him ride it like a 250- on the power sooo early- i think last year he didnt have the benefit of it (or at least it wasnt as good as this years) and that is what caused him to stop having the massive highsides he had last year.

Right well if you agree then please say, if you dont then go away :rolleyes: (no say what you think) Please keep it pleasent.

Nick

[fizzwheel]

Funny isnt it, how when Rossi dominated a few years back, nobody moaned now he's getting beat and Casey is winning and being just a dominant, alot of people are complaining.

I think its more down to Casey than the bike, look a Capirossi, and the D'antin bikes ( which are supposedly the same ) they've been nowhere all season..

I just think his personal life is settled and he's got the team behind him and sorted his head out, I always thought he would be fast if he stopped crashing, and like has been said before, You can take a fast rider and make him stop crashing, but you cant make a slow rider fast...

I think you're right though, it be more of a spectacle if they banned traction control :D but I still reckon Casey on his current form would still be winning, I think a good case for your argument is Nicky Hayden who rides faster with all the electronics turned off on his bike !

I think though that tyre war between Michellin and Bridgestone has much much more to do with whats going on at the moment.

[sinbad]

But it's not as if Hayden is power sliding all over the place either, and of course he still has a massive adjustability of the engine mapping which will make it easier for him.

It's the tyres according to Stoner, but part of the reason for it being the tyres is that they have TC. If the TC had never come, then perhaps the tyres would still have a more gradual breakaway and we'd see more sideways stuff. Maybe if it was one single brand the lack of competition could allow them to make a more progressive longer lasting tyre than the current ones, and then they wouldn't use the TC so much anyway.

[ThEGr33k]

Indeed i think casey is fast but i dont think he is such a distance from the others. Capa is having a lot going on at home baby and all that and lets be honest he is old now :(. Also i think it suits caseys riding style like i say, he can ride it like a 250 no need to worry about the power biting him. No matter what they say stalite teams arnt on the same bikes! They might have been to start with but id bet my bike they arn't now!

Rossi has a lot of fans including me ill admit. He is doing bad yes but then im sure you HAVE to agree his bike is "****" (sorry for the language). look at anyone else on the yams and they are nowhere... But like i said it was always a spectical when rossi was at the front almost always battles.

Tyres yes they are making it too one sided, last year it was pretty even (from what i remember) but bridgestone deffo have the advantage now!

[Sideshow#36]

Yep its boring. Bring back 500 strokers and ban all the silly electrickery and let motorcycle racers get back doing what they do best....RACING!

[PeterM]

Perhaps a look at Casey's crashes last year will reveal that the majority of them were front end loses?? Hmmm?

How many riders have made complaints about the lack of feel with the Honda front end? Think back to Colin Edwards trying forks out from his days in SBK to try and get some front end feel. That's an extreme example.

Casey is a front end rider, simple as that. So is Biaggi. The Ducati is a front end bike and the Bridgestone fronts are the best that are out there.

Re: traction control, in order to get the power out of the 800s the engines need to rev and the fuel restrictions mean they run lean = peaky. The electonics help tame the engine to make things safer in that regard.

Reading interviews with the riders shows that the 990s allowed more cornering options as the power available meant you could make up more on the straights. The 800s rely on higher corner speeds (no great revelation there) and don't have the big power to allow as many lines. This means the majority of passes will be block passes, drafting or taking advantage of someone else stuffing up.

For the riders it is definitely more mentally taxing as they need to be inch perfect, each corner, each lap.

Not as 'exciting' as a spectator spectacle, perhaps, but very taxing of the riders.

[Alpinestarhero]

Ban traction control, ban launch control. Its silly, and its not something thats really usefull on the road. How many people here have got so close to the limit they are spinning up rear wheels? I bet the majority havn't! And this launch control, its amockery of what every road rider has to go through at the traffic light GP on the morning commute to work!

I mean, if I can get a speedy getaway with my non-launch control SV, surely Stoner et al can do the same!!!

I do, however, welcome the use of slipper clutches. A darn good thing when its slippery

Oh, little defense for casey. Last year he was falling alot because, IMO, the honda wasnt the right bike for him. Most of his crashes where from decking the bike out - it simply wasnt designed to be lent that far over! The ducati obviously suits him. We've seen this happen with other rides - look at bayliss, he was quick on the ducati, but not so good on the honda. Similar situation with Sete "GravelTrap" Gibernau :D - he was slower on the duke than on the honda.

I'm in awe of caset stoner, I always knew, right fomr the first test he had at valencia, that he could be world champion. He's australia's replacment for Mick Doohan, methinks

Matt

[Pedrosa]

Some relevant comments made here. Personally I would definitely dump traction control as that immediately leads to more exciiting riding by those really willing to push things.

Comparing what Casey was riding last year to his GP7 is very unfair as that Honda satelite bike was way down the list for prioritising new and improved bits from the factory. The chassis and suspension could not cope with the demands of a charging and determined young ri8der. Remember Max was complaining about the handling almost 3 years ago and it still is not full sorted as Pedrosa still thinks the handling of his bike sucks.

The launch control for me is a very different matter. The problem is a two edged thing. Firstly the wheel base on the Moto GP bikes is very short and injudicious use of the clutch and gas from a standstill will have them on their heads. The second part of the problem is that "standard" clutches cannot cope with the amount of slipping needed to get one of these bikes off the line without the traction control.

Fizz is right, Ducati-Stoner-Bridgestone were given the same remit as everyone else and have delivered more consistantly than any other team or manufacturer. They should be admired rather than ridiculed. What many are ignoring and I strongly believe that this is the biggest difference...Magnetti Marelli...the electronic system used by Ducati. Threy really have got the finger on the pulse in that department and of course some finer tweaking is given to the main factory bikes.

It's definitely not all about the tyres either guys as the main Michelin sports Director stated a couple of GP's ago that if Stoner was running their rubber, he would still be where he is right now.

My feeling is that this really is a one off type season and next could be the most competitive we have seen since 2003 and 2004 or the ram raid years of Doohan and Criville.

[ThEGr33k]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbuqt1Zq-ds&NR=1 We need Gibernau back! More of this PLEASE :smt077 There just dont seem to be enough showmanship these days... Gibernau and Rossi was AMAZING to watch!

[Pedrosa]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbuqt1Zq-ds&NR=1 We need Gibernau back! More of this PLEASE :smt077 There just dont seem to be enough showmanship these days... Gibernau and Rossi was AMAZING to watch!

Totally agree with you my friend. Sete in truth was sooo good it took an exceptional rider to stop him being world champ in the two seasons mentioned. Sete was never appreciated by most fans outside of Spain which I think is a great shame.

We should not forget that during the 2003 season Sete was baring the loss of Kato(Nº 74) his team mate following a crash at Suzuka. Maybe that helped in his push on Valentino that year trying to bring it home for his fallen comrade. No matter what,I do miss him on the track.So quick and a great style also. Far more intelligent and articulate,(in both Spanish and English) than people give him credit for, plus nowhere near the whinger many accuse him of being.

[haggis]

I think it's just in the nature of motor-racing that one person usually dominates per season,. They have that ability to amaze us and the ability to use the tools provided at the limit (Of course, TC takes a bit of the guesswork out where that limit is....:rolleyes:). For them to repeat that consistency in the next year is what sets the great apart from good.

Schuey, Doohan, Loeb, Rossi et al are stunning to watch, but i still think Rossi was/is, I think, the only guy since Sheene's days who's part showman/part sportsman and thats what irritates some people. Not me, i thought his mind games brought new fans who would never have considered motoGP worthy.

But, back to TC. Maybe it would be more of a 'sport' without it but as pointed out above - Nicky opted out from the electronic overrides. That should tell us a lot about how much it's actually a benefit as opposed to a perceived one. I guess eventually the FIA will decide it's going to be banned again - a spanner in the works to make things 'interesting' for spectators. Then it's back to square one for development. Swings and roundabouts innit.:-D

[fizzwheel]

Gibernau and Rossi was AMAZING to watch!

Agreed, awesome, Gibernau was the only one IMHO to take the fight to Rossi and give as good as he got.

[Alpinestarhero]

Agreed, awesome, Gibernau was the only one IMHO to take the fight to Rossi and give as good as he got.

But in his last season with honda, you could set your watch by him and his excursions into the gravel trap. added an interesting element to motogp - which pile of kitty litter will Gibernau visit this week?

:D

Na, excellent rider, and I still get a little tear in my eye whenever i think about that fantastic pole postion and race win at Welkom, two weeks after Kato died at suzuka. That whole season, Gibernau was electric

Matt

[sinbad]

It's definitely not all about the tyres either guys as the main Michelin sports Director stated a couple of GP's ago that if Stoner was running their rubber, he would still be where he is right now.


You mean to say that the director of Michelin's sports branch, a man with a massive interest in the strength of the brand within motor racing, defended his product- stating that it's championship winning quality- rather than admitting to the world, and his bosses, that it was possible that perhaps the tyres were indeed a problem?
Quite surprising, but as you say his word is definite. There couldn't possibly be any more impartial a judge than him now could there.......hmmm :)

Moto GP is still far from boring, but like many things, you miss little bits and bobs that you just feel could make it so much better. It's frustrating too because big rules changes take so long to come around, you always know that you will definitely have at least one more season with things more or less as is, unless the changes are announced right at the beginning of a season.

[Pedrosa]

Sinbad..The man in question was Jean-Philippe Weber,(He's French y'know?;)) and he was quoted verbatim in Marca the Spanish sports newspaper. He might have been defending his own brand or alluding to the fact that the Ducati is so superior this year that it and Stoner would win anyway?

[sinbad]

Sinbad..The man in question was Jean-Philippe Weber,(He's French y'know?;)) and he was quoted verbatim in Marca the Spanish sports newspaper. He might have been defending his own brand or alluding to the fact that the Ducati is so superior this year that it and Stoner would win anyway?

Well of course he'll say that, both of those things are actually the same thing :). Next he'll be saying the Suzukis with Hopper and Verm are so much better than the Yamaha and Honda and their riders that they'd still beat them with Michelins, even if the others in turn switched over to Bridgestones.
The LAST thing that guy is going to blame poor performance of Michelin equipped teams on is his tyres, and the LAST thing he'll credit Bridgestone with is making a tyre that is much better than the Michelin stuff. /cynic mode ;)

[ThEGr33k]

As i see it these are the ranking of equipment and the top few riders:-

Bikes:-
1)Ducati (obviously)
2)Suzuki
3)Kawasaki
4)Honda (not much between these and kawasakis - riders for honda are hot stuff)
5)Yamaha (where did that go?)

Tyers - Qualifying:-
Bridgestone (closer than race tyers)

Tyers - Race:-
Bridgestone

Riders:-
1)Rossi
Gibernau if he was still here :smt045
2)Pedrosa
3)melandri
4)Stoner
5)Vermulen

I also rate Edwards (but i think he needs to have a bike built to suit him, he dont adapt to a bike...) and Hopkins, Both very good one on days.

I think if they do the Proam race thing itll make it interesting to see :smt077 But thats BSB...

[wheelnut]

I believe that the traction control and dropping the premier class to 800 was a mistake for the spectators. BSB or Supersport is much more spectator friendly as they get chance to watch close passing and repass

When it was announced that Stoner and Pedrosa would dominate GP because of the similarity to riding the 250. It was Pedrosa who was getting all the glory. Stoner was still highsiding his way round all the circuits

I think if you put Rossi on that Ducati you would see some proper riding again. I dont knock Stoner, he is quick but Rossi has not lost the plot by a long way.

Gibbering had lost it after Rossi phucked his head

[carty]

Gibbering had lost it after Rossi phucked his head

I think I'd lose it it he tried to do that to me!! :puker:

I much prefer to see close racing and with one thing and another there hasn't been all that much of it this season - the teams have spent too long playing catch-up to Ducati and no amount of rider skill has been able to overcome their speed / grip advantage.

Hopefully next year will be more evenly matched all round.

And Rossi is still the best.