View Full Version : Carry a gun?
Recent article on UK violent crime (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article2409817.ece)
Flamin_Squirrel
10-09-07, 09:06 AM
That article doesn't intuitively feel right. We don't have tens of thousands of people mudered here every year (I don't think?!) for a start.
Anyway that point aside, while it's entirely feasable to end up in the dock simply from defending yourself with your fists, I think firearm ownership for defensive purposes is a moot point.
ThEGr33k
10-09-07, 09:15 AM
No weapons should remain like they are... illegal (unless you have a licence and even then you are restricted). We dont want it to end up like in the US where gun crime is rampant not just rare.
Why is it that some people just dont realise how much life is worth?
Warthog
10-09-07, 09:22 AM
Urgh, can you imagine everyone being allowed to carry guns in England?? Crazy, I wouldn't trust 90% of people with a gun.
The laws are getting more and more strict, next month you need to be registered to get a BB gun too.
Flamin_Squirrel
10-09-07, 09:35 AM
The laws are getting more and more strict, next month you need to be registered to get a BB gun too.
Ah yes, gotta combat those kids on killing sprees with BB guns. Pathetic.
ThEGr33k
10-09-07, 10:04 AM
It is down to trust, all these imigrants around means we are having a lot of friction between different comunties. Also there are too many human rights, people now a days compaired to back in the 30's-40's we dont have the respect for each other that we need. Having guns around can go one of two ways (in my opinion):-
1) People use them as weapons to attack other groups of people and the groups less willing to use guns will suffer.
2) Poeple will only use them as deterants and everyone will live in peace.
Which will happen? I wonder. Look at the middle east, all those AK47's tsh they are always in fighting and what have they gained? Granted on the other hand Canada is doing fine and they have more guns than the Ham-shanks. Im not sure how it would work out. :confused:
The laws are getting more and more strict, next month you need to be registered to get a BB gun too.
so...if I rush out now to stock up on BB guns I won't need to be on a register?
There's this fox cub that poops on my patio & sneaks into my house to eat Artoo's dinner. Last night he nearly had cat for dinner.....
The laws are getting more and more strict, next month you need to be registered to get a BB gun too.
One of the points of the article was that tighter laws only restrict the law abiding, and on that point I wholeheartedly agree. Folks who break current laws to possess a weapon will not think twice if the laws are tightened.
Personally I wish I could own/have access to a decent calibre rifle & pistol for target shooting reasons, but my aspiration was ruined by the last set of law tightening. However, now I'm marked as a psycopathic hoodlum, I'd like to clarify that I'd never want to carry a weapon on a day to day basis - from the gun locker to the range is more than sufficient.
It annoys me that potentially lethal guns cannot be associated with legitimate non-lethal pastimes involving real skill (such as outdoor target shooting), but the same approach isn't applied to other devices created with lethal intent, such as bow & arrow, catapult & even boomerangs.
Guns aren't the problem. It's the attitude and intent of those that carry them that is, and tighter laws certainly won't change that.
gettin2dizzy
10-09-07, 02:08 PM
And by legalising guns gun crime will go up.... but they'll be shooting each other ;) woo! I'd carry one if I could :) It's easier than going to the gym ;)
Ah yes, gotta combat those kids on killing sprees with BB guns. Pathetic.
It's these BB replica's which can be bored out and turned into live round firearms with relative ease. So if you happen to get shot by one of these conversions I wonder how pathetic it would seem.
You can't bore out a BB gun to a real gun, its impossible, I hope your jesting. Only blank firers can be changed in that way.
He was probably thinking of .22 not BB?
Anyway a different way of thinking might be: Hoodies, crims and low life carry guns to impose fear and intimidation on others and therefore control them, but if it was legal to bear arms like in the US people might think twice if they knew there was a chance they would be confronted back looking down the barrel of a gun.
If they knew there was a chance of being shot back they might think twice.
If it was legal I would carry one.
It’s a very dodgy subject though.
Flamin_Squirrel
10-09-07, 02:26 PM
It's these BB replica's which can be bored out and turned into live round firearms with relative ease. So if you happen to get shot by one of these conversions I wonder how pathetic it would seem.
As Grinch says you're probably mistaken. However even if you were right, it would probably be easier to just get the real deal in the first place so there's little point worrying about conversions.
You can't bore out a BB gun to a real gun, its impossible, I hope your jesting. Only blank firers can be changed in that way.
I was under the impression that the BB replica's are the gun's which are being turned into live firearms.
I've been watching too many episodes of Street Wars!!!
Although I'm not entirely convinced you are right I am happy to bow to the greater knowledge :notworthy::notworthy:
I was under the impression that the BB replica's are the gun's which are being turned into live firearms.
I've been watching too many episodes of Street Wars!!!
Although I'm not entirely convinced you are right I am happy to bow to the greater knowledge :notworthy::notworthy:
I have a number of BB guns in my possession and they don't contain the parts inside to turn them into a gun... you'd have to replace all the insides with a real gun...
AHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh so it is possible then ;)
Caddy2000
10-09-07, 02:51 PM
Ah yes, gotta combat those kids on killing sprees with BB guns. Pathetic.
I have a mate that's Armed Response; he got called out to a road rage incident where a fella pointed a replica Sig BB gun in another bloke face.
He was arrested, and my mate got his Sig out and put it right next to this BB gun. When he asked the fella to pick out his BB gun he couldn't.
If he couldn't pick out his own gun, then how do we expect our Police officers to tell whether someone has a firearm, BB gun, or a table leg in a carrier bag?
Replica guns are far too realistic! even down to weight! You can buy a Rep G36 BB gun that can swap magazines with the real gun!
It is not Pathetic, it is bloody scary!
Flamin_Squirrel
10-09-07, 03:01 PM
I have a mate that's Armed Response; he got called out to a road rage incident where a fella pointed a replica Sig BB gun in another bloke face.
He was arrested, and my mate got his Sig out and put it right next to this BB gun. When he asked the fella to pick out his BB gun he couldn't.
If he couldn't pick out his own gun, then how do we expect our Police officers to tell whether someone has a firearm, BB gun, or a table leg in a carrier bag?
Replica guns are far too realistic! even down to weight! You can buy a Rep G36 BB gun that can swap magazines with the real gun!
It is not Pathetic, it is bloody scary!
If crims can't get hold of replicas they'll just get the real deal insead. Which is exactly what's happening.
I have a mate that's Armed Response; he got called out to a road rage incident where a fella pointed a replica Sig BB gun in another bloke face.
He was arrested, and my mate got his Sig out and put it right next to this BB gun. When he asked the fella to pick out his BB gun he couldn't.
If he couldn't pick out his own gun, then how do we expect our Police officers to tell whether someone has a firearm, BB gun, or a table leg in a carrier bag?
This road rage guy should count himself lucky that he's still alive. Credit to your mate's unit for defusing the situation.
I don't expect Police to tell the difference. As far as I know, it's never been legal to wave any weapon at someone, so treat them as if it was real. Real, replica, imitation, toy or "table leg" should not be acceptable defence. Armed plod are trained to shout very loudly. If you pay no attention then expect to get shot dead!
It's not the ownership that's the problem it's the way the weapon's used. But before we combat unlawful use with a general right to bear arms we should support and improve the police resources for dealing with that threat.
Ceri JC
10-09-07, 03:40 PM
There's a perception that our gun laws are very tight. For most guns, they are. For shotguns, they are fairly lax.
On the subject of guns for self defense. In the home, certainly, a shotgun is a wonderful tool for self defense. As to carrying them in public? No, I'd rather people were not allowed as most knives are supposedly carried "for self defense" and look where that has gotten us.
As to carrying them in public? No, I'd rather people were not allowed as most knives are supposedly carried "for self defense" and look where that has gotten us.
+1
Caddy2000
10-09-07, 03:50 PM
This road rage guy should count himself lucky that he's still alive. Credit to your mate's unit for defusing the situation.
I don't expect Police to tell the difference. As far as I know, it's never been legal to wave any weapon at someone, so treat them as if it was real. Real, replica, imitation, toy or "table leg" should not be acceptable defence. Armed plod are trained to shout very loudly. If you pay no attention then expect to get shot dead!
It's not the ownership that's the problem it's the way the weapon's used. But before we combat unlawful use with a general right to bear arms we should support and improve the police resources for dealing with that threat.
Very well said! A few questions that you might want to ask:
Do those who make policy really understand the nature of firearms? Do our Police forces and Constabularies actually understand the issues? And I mean at the top level.
Do knee-jerk reactions really solve the problem? Has the banning of the ownership of legal pistols and handguns really made a difference?
I don't think that senior Police officers and policy makers do understand the issues, and whats more I don't think that they really give a damn about making a difference - they're only interested in their pension (and votes)......
BUT I do not think that a right to bear arms would solve a single thing - it would just make it so much worse!
I've shot Air rifle, Shotgun, .22 rim, 9mm, 0.45 black powder, 0.303; both at clubs and in the field (by that I mean pheasant shooting and pest control).
It is quite easy for me to kill someone at 50 yards with a 11.5 ft lb .177 air rifle, now imagine a place where everyone had a Sig 9mm, or a .45 revolver.....
Caddy2000
10-09-07, 03:52 PM
There's a perception that our gun laws are very tight. For most guns, they are. For shotguns, they are fairly lax.
On the subject of guns for self defense. In the home, certainly, a shotgun is a wonderful tool for self defense. As to carrying them in public? No, I'd rather people were not allowed as most knives are supposedly carried "for self defense" and look where that has gotten us.
Not if you're the one who has to redecorate!
Ceri JC
10-09-07, 03:58 PM
Not if you're the one who has to redecorate!
Tell me about it, white walls and cream carpets with the original sculpted plaster means it'd cost more to redecorate than any one robber could make off with on their own. Still, it's the principle of the thing and besides, I'm sure the house insurance people would be understanding. ;)
Caddy2000
10-09-07, 04:01 PM
It'll be the smell of the flesh that has been imbedded in the wall! :sick:
Flamin_Squirrel
10-09-07, 05:11 PM
Do knee-jerk reactions really solve the problem? Has the banning of the ownership of legal pistols and handguns really made a difference?
Yes it's made things worse. And the government doesn't make knee-jerk reactions, the electorate do. The government just cynically jumps on the bandwagon, eroding freedom further just so they can score a few extra votes.
It's these BB replica's which can be bored out and turned into live round firearms with relative ease. So if you happen to get shot by one of these conversions I wonder how pathetic it would seem.
You can't bore out a BB gun to a real gun, its impossible, I hope your jesting. Only blank firers can be changed in that way.
Grinch, you're right, but the easiest to convert was the Brocock air gun that used individual air cartridges like a proper revolver. These are now FAC only and can't be traded or transferred if you have one.
There's a perception that our gun laws are very tight. For most guns, they are. For shotguns, they are fairly lax.
On the subject of guns for self defense. In the home, certainly, a shotgun is a wonderful tool for self defense. As to carrying them in public? No, I'd rather people were not allowed as most knives are supposedly carried "for self defense" and look where that has gotten us.
We're into the realms of right to defence there I think, UK law still says you have to retreat first, ridiculous really.
There are ways round the knife carry law, cut throat razor with a blade less than 3". I know somebody who was selling them on ebay and they were like the clichéd hot cakes.
yorkie_chris
10-09-07, 09:14 PM
So, the government banned pistols and self loading rifles, gun crime soared. And IMO increased the appeal of weaponry (gangsta rap culture etc.)
All this did was take guns out of the hands of people who enjoyed using them responsibly, and the only reason they were banned is due to police not doing their job properly in checking who they were granting FAC to.
I'd definately carry a gun if it were legal, and think that licensed, legal concealed weapons are a good idea, look at the murder rates in places where the law allows this, much less than cities with total gun bans!
My take is that generally people see guns as evil, which is ridiculous, I can guarantee that no gun has EVER killed anything. It's the people who cause the problem!
Google Tony Martin, whats everyones opinions of him?
Chris
Caddy2000
10-09-07, 09:29 PM
Tony Martin may not be the best example - he did shoot a lad in the back who was running away, and he shot him with an illegal firearm........
I still think that carrying any type of weapon in public for 'self defence' says a lot about our society, and it's mainly bad!
How many people on here have ever been mugged? And out of those how many were threatened with a knife or a gun?
just interested.......
The biggest question that is currently burning away in my head (apart from when will the whiplash go away), is why do we put so much faith in the tabloids? Why do we allow ourselves to be whipped up into such a frenzy?
I think that's why I love Kaiser Chiefs latest song, and the lyrics:
We are the angry mob,
We read the papers every day,
We know who we really hate,
But we're so easily swayed............
The tabloids may be the largest single source of media, but it's all sensational ****e!
Biker Biggles
10-09-07, 09:37 PM
Well Ive been mugged,and been on the wrong end of a firearm.
Interesting that both happened a good few years ago,and not in this country.
More likely to get run over crossing the road here.
ThEGr33k
10-09-07, 09:41 PM
Very well said! A few questions that you might want to ask:
Do those who make policy really understand the nature of firearms? Do our Police forces and Constabularies actually understand the issues? And I mean at the top level.
Do knee-jerk reactions really solve the problem? Has the banning of the ownership of legal pistols and handguns really made a difference?
I don't think that senior Police officers and policy makers do understand the issues, and whats more I don't think that they really give a damn about making a difference - they're only interested in their pension (and votes)......
BUT I do not think that a right to bear arms would solve a single thing - it would just make it so much worse!
I've shot Air rifle, Shotgun, .22 rim, 9mm, 0.45 black powder, 0.303; both at clubs and in the field (by that I mean pheasant shooting and pest control).
It is quite easy for me to kill someone at 50 yards with a 11.5 ft lb .177 air rifle, now imagine a place where everyone had a Sig 9mm, or a .45 revolver.....
Ive only shot the SA80A2 (the one that works)... Thats an assault rifle and i think that sort of weapon should be left where it is (with the forces), with a susat i think a 500meter kill wouldnt be too difficult for a trained individual... Thats just stupid really.
As for pistols Youll be lucky to kill someone outside of 20 meters range... (unless you were training to do just that) they are inacurate and not particularly powerful... Closecombat is their best use... defending a home for example.
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m9.htm
Flamin_Squirrel
11-09-07, 08:12 AM
...why do we put so much faith in the tabloids? Why do we allow ourselves to be whipped up into such a frenzy?
Simple answer is most people are idiots. Half the people have an IQ less than 100, remember!
A more complex reason is that we as humans seem to need something to hate. Back in the day people hated Hitler or the Soviet Union with their scarey nukes, for example. Fair enough too perhaps.
Now we live in a fairly safe society but people still need to find other things to hate. Since we've not really got much in the way of a serious threat, people direct their anoyance at trivial things like motorcyclists, the gentle bloke who enjoys poping a few round off at the range from time to time, 4x4 drivers, those who've not sufficiently reduced their carbon footprint (god I hate that term)...
Tabloids don't so much whip up frenzy, the frenzy is already there. They simply decide where the fickle masses should focus their wrath for the week.
Filipe M.
11-09-07, 11:49 AM
You calling me stupid?
That will depend on which half you're in...
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