View Full Version : The 'Blame Culture' we live in
This is a horrible story on the BBC News Cornwall page. Seems that somebody lay dead in their house for THREE YEARS before a burglar found what was left. Family are blaming the police.
Why didn't they go and look themselves?? I dunno. This blame culture... I don't think this family was 'let down' by the police, they should accept responsibility themselves.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/6990711.stm
How in gods name can the family blame the police,
WTF , did they not bother going and having a look, or sorting out her stuff??
wow can i have a family that caring please!!!
Pedrosa
12-09-07, 01:31 PM
Yeah like the family were so bothered about her when she was alive? It took friends and neighbours to first express their concern that the lady had not been seen for a long time. The family for me should simply shut TFU. They are a disgrace to seek to point the finger at anyone!
timwilky
12-09-07, 01:33 PM
Well it is 2 years since I last saw my mother, but at the time told her I will never see her again. I phone my aunt, her twin sister at least once a month and know from her that she is still alive and still hurting people.
Normally I would agree with you Ed. However, there are family circumstances where you might only want to hear that xyz is dead, and have no good reason to want to visit that relative.
Pedrosa
12-09-07, 01:35 PM
Tim...But even in the circumstances that you allude to, the ultimate responsibility is that of the family. Not agencies,neighbours or friends?
Filipe M.
12-09-07, 01:36 PM
Or the police!
So it still wouldent be the polices fault would it??
timwilky
12-09-07, 01:38 PM
Tim...But even in the circumstances that you allude to, the ultimate responsibility is that of the family. Not agencies,neighbours or friends?
Yes I agree, they cannot try to pass the buck. If it was 3 years since they last saw her and are now on a guilt trip, it is one of there own making.
Family are blaming the police.
Think you'll find it's the IPCC who are blaming the police. If the IPCC stated that the police were responsible for something then who are the family to argue?
Flamin_Squirrel
12-09-07, 01:46 PM
The police have certainly failed, but in their duty towards Sally Shearing, not her family.
She could well have been murdered and the police would have been none the wiser, and that's a serious failing.
Bluepete
12-09-07, 02:01 PM
Think you'll find it's the IPCC who are blaming the police. If the IPCC stated that the police were responsible for something then who are the family to argue?
By the very fact that the IPCC is involved, the familly must have complained about the cops.
I used to go to loads of "Mrs. Such and Such hasn't been seen for weeks."
The first thing to do is check with neighbours. They said she was in a home. So what should the cops have done? Smash the door in anyway? OK, so in this case, they would have found a body, but that's with hindsight which is always 20-20.
If she had been in a home and they put the door in, the familly would have claimed against the cops for the damage caused during entry.
Cops never win when it comes to grieving (although this familly don't appear to care enough to greave) relatives. It's easier to take it on the chin and carry on, rather than drag it out, usually through the press.
By the very fact that the IPCC is involved, the familly must have complained about the cops.
By the very fact that the IPCC upheld the complaint then the complaint was justified. The IPCC blame the police.
You have to expect stories like this, as the country went down the pan years ago.
It is a crazy country we live in.
the white rabbit
12-09-07, 02:43 PM
I want to know who started this culture of blame? ;)
I want to know who started this culture of blame? ;)
Yes! Think of the children!! ;)
Biker Biggles
12-09-07, 02:48 PM
Who started it?It was the bloody Romans of course.
I want to know who started this culture of blame? ;)
America's blame & claim culture and the Lord Woolf reform of the Civil Justice system are the two massive factors that gave life to the blame culture.
Simple as that......:smt045 I wont bore you with any more detail, I had to write 6000 words on it back when I was at uni.
Biker Biggles
12-09-07, 02:52 PM
Are you refering to the abolition of Crown immunity?That was one of the factors that spawned a whole legal industry for claiming against public bodies.
gettin2dizzy
12-09-07, 02:53 PM
I blame.... ;)
Warthog
12-09-07, 03:28 PM
I want to know who started this culture of blame? ;)
hehe
America's blame & claim culture and the Lord Woolf reform of the Civil Justice system are the two massive factors that gave life to the blame culture.
Think you may have missed the irony in Dr Rich post....... maybe?? ;-)
Pedrosa
12-09-07, 04:07 PM
The police have certainly failed, but in their duty towards Sally Shearing, not her family.
She could well have been murdered and the police would have been none the wiser, and that's a serious failing.
The simple fact that a person was not known to the Police or their exact where abouts means that they should be on their guard that said person has been a victim of a crime? Oh please Jordan that really is verging on the ridiculous.
Aren't you someone who champions against nanny state mentality?:confused:
As I aspire to be an embittered old hag when I grow up I spose I may have this to look forward to - the only realisation that I am no more shall be when local children feel they can pass by my house in safety. :twisted:
Flamin_Squirrel
12-09-07, 07:46 PM
The simple fact that a person was not known to the Police or their exact where abouts means that they should be on their guard that said person has been a victim of a crime? Oh please Jordan that really is verging on the ridiculous.
Aren't you someone who champions against nanny state mentality?:confused:
The police were called twice about something being amiss. A few phone calls/inquiries would have discovered she hadn't gone anywhere. Nothing nanny state about it, any member of the public could ask the same questions.
It really is quite baffling why the family should complain in the first place about a 3 year delay when they plainly did nothing themselves.
Next they'll instruct some smartarse lawyer to claim compensation;) and the burglar will be given an award out of public funds:D
Pedrosa
12-09-07, 09:43 PM
The police were called twice about something being amiss. A few phone calls/inquiries would have discovered she hadn't gone anywhere. Nothing nanny state about it, any member of the public could ask the same questions.
I accept your point. However the Police were informed by the neighbours that the lady in question had gone to live in "a home" and so felt to check at the house was pointless.
Hindsight nudges one to think they might have attempted to find out which home she was now resident in though.
any member of the public could ask the same questions.
Agreed. Including those who subsequently filed a complaint.
So a police officer will probably be disciplined, maybe even lose his job, cos this lady's family couldn't be bothered to check up even though by definition they hadn't heard anything from her. They must have been seriously concerned about her welfare.
So they blame the police. Someone, somewhere, is always to blame.
There's no such thing as personal responsibility any more.
So a police officer will probably be disciplined, maybe even lose his job, cos this lady's family couldn't be bothered to check up even though by definition they hadn't heard anything from her.
Ed - if a police officer loses their job, it will be because the IPCC deemed them to have failed the public they are there to serve.
gettin2dizzy
13-09-07, 09:43 AM
canyou imagine walking in to find her- eurgh!
SoulKiss
13-09-07, 09:49 AM
I want to know who started this culture of blame? ;)
Looking for someone to blame are we????
I Blame the parents
Ed - if a police officer loses their job, it will be because the IPCC deemed them to have failed the public they are there to serve.
Yes, true, I accept this. My gripe is that the family should have complained in the first place. There was a follow up on this, that the coroner has written to the police and to the social services. There was a hint that the poor woman had mental problems. All the more reason for family to check up, I'd have thought.
Biker Biggles
13-09-07, 11:14 AM
arc123----You dont work for the IPCC do you?
You seem to have tremendous faith in their ability to determine right and wrong.Now I struggle to recall who elects or scrutinises the IPCC-----;)
arc123----You dont work for the IPCC do you?
You seem to have tremendous faith in their ability to determine right and wrong.Now I struggle to recall who elects or scrutinises the IPCC-----:wink:
No don't work for the IPCC.
Sure you aren't struggling to recall.... but anyway, the chair and the commissioners are appointed by the Home Secretary. So what point are you trying to make by linking the IPCC to the government?
Biker Biggles
13-09-07, 12:03 PM
Simply that the IPCC is nothing more or less than yet another quasi judicial government quango whose conclusions should be taken with the same pinch of salt one would use for any other similar body.
I assume the "Independant" bit of it's title means from the police,but I would not regard it as independant from other influences.I always question the motives of these bodies (not just the IPCC)and hence their conclusions.
I dont see how the police can take the blame for this, we dont live in a state were some big brother authority knows where everyone lives, not yet anyway. Why would the officers think there was anything amis when they are told she had moved. I presume they had already had knocked the door and taken a peek thru' the window.
I hope the family don't benefit from any compensation claim, and I do hope Burgular Bill has nightmares.
Bluewolf
13-09-07, 12:35 PM
So one one hand we have elements in modern society screaming bloody murder about "big brother" watching us and demanding more rights to our privacy... And on the other we have a poor woman laying dead in her home for three years and the family screaming about how disgraceful it is that no-one was checking up on her...
Personally I don't know how they can have the bare-faced audacity to try and blame the police. If they cared that much about her then where the bloody hell were they for the past three years?
I only hope she passed away peacefully and is now at rest.
Simply that the IPCC is nothing more or less than yet another quasi judicial government quango whose conclusions should be taken with the same pinch of salt one would use for any other similar body.
I gathered that you were insinuating this, and to an extent I agree, nothing is ever entirely 'independant'. However on this occassion where the 'biased towards other Home Office organisiations' IPCC rule against 'another Home Office' organisiation - the point you were making is somewhat clouded.....?
Biker Biggles
13-09-07, 01:41 PM
Yes,but in this case and others of a similar nature the blame can probably be safely passed down the line to the junior fall guy(the copper who believed the neighbour)so no Home Office organisation will be in much danger.Thus we get back to EDs scenario where the copper takes the blame for just doing his job like most coppers would and the absent family get placated and maybe a few quid as well.Easy way out all round unless you happen to be one of the true salt of the earth types who actually work at the sharp end.Then you find you are just expendable scum when things get hard,and all the armchair experts pronounce their judgements.
but in this case and others of a similar nature the blame can probably be safely passed down the line to the junior fall guy(the copper who believed the neighbour)so no Home Office organisation will be in much danger.
or alternativley - they could have said there was no case to answer if there was no case to answer?
and all the armchair experts pronounce their judgements.
if that was aimed at me then I have not passed judgement at all. although the same cannot be said about yourself - however, you're obviously not an 'arm chair expert' (far superior to that). You don't work for the police do you?
Biker Biggles
13-09-07, 04:13 PM
It wasn't aimed at you.I had asked you if you worked for the IPCC and you said no.I dont know what you do but you do seem to be a bit touchy on this;)
I dont work for the police.
What I do have is twenty years experience of the blame game in the public services and how that has developed policy wise in the last decade.That was what I meant by armchair experts sitting in judgement on real workers who do the job daily in the most difficult of circumstances.
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