Burma-Flowers against the rifle.

[Pedrosa]

I have to say that I am sickened at what is taking place in Burma. Once again the people of a country being misgoverned by a military regime. Religious monks as you know have taken to the streets in peaceful resistance but have met rifle butts,severe beatings plus many have been shot and killed and we learn but a fraction of what is actually happening there due to information black outs by the authorities.

How can that situation best be resolved?:confused:

[northwind]

It can't. The junta aren't going to back down, and they're not afraid to murder thousands to stay in power- clearly, as they did it before and no harm came of it for them. And the international pressure's a joke, they couldn't care less and the Chinese will shield them- asking the Chinese of all people to support intervention in a case of oppression and state brutality, yeah, that's going to work. And the people are out of options, it's be crushed today or be crushed for another decade.

As far as I can tell the only options are a) another massacre and years more oppression, which I think is the most likely outcome... b) collapse of the democratic demonstrations, c) actual direct international intervention, which I don't see happening, or d) army turns on junta. But I dread to think what it'll take for that to happen, we're talking here about a group that's already firing live rounds into unarmed civilians despite having tear gas and rubber bullets.

c) is problematic, since a military solution isn't really practicable and sanctions are a joke- as long as China refuse to take part they're meaningless... And we're all afraid of annoying china, or maybe, we don't want to confront china because afterwards, we'll have to deal with who they really are, rather than the modern world partners we're pretending they are just now.

There's an option e), which is pretty loathsome but might work- an international effort to offer the high level officers of the junta immunity to prosecution, and allowing them to step down and keep all that they've stolen from their people, and go into exile into a life of privilege somewhere else. Basically, let them keep the perks of being in power, but get them out. But how likely is that?

And I suppose option f), which is send in the hitmen. But this isn't a movie, I don't see it.

I was tempted to start a post like this yesterday, but I realised i've got nothing productive to say. And it burns me... We've all been talking about how the information age prevents this sort of thing, because you can't hide the truth any more- the pictures will get out. Massacres filmed on mobile phones. But it turns out it doesn't matter. Hiding the truth's only ever been a matter of face, of image, at the end of the day the burmese junta could kill another 3000 people tomorrow and what could we do? So we make a noise, we protest, we **** about in the united nations like it makes any difference at all, and whatever's going to happen, happens.

[Pedrosa]

Andy....Nothing productive to say? Totally self effacing mate. That was a pleasure to read despite the sad conclusions one makes after doing so.

[Biker Biggles]

Im struck by the similarities to Zimbabwe here.It appears that there is very little of economic interest to the big powers in either country so expressions of distaste are deemed adequate,combined with a certain amount of hand wringing.
Burma is a close neighbour of two modern superpowers,China and India,and it is our (The West)reluctance to confront them that lies behind our inaction here.

[thedonal]

I'm jalso very horrified about this. Apparently, they do have oil, which China, among others buy from them. But clearly not eenough to be of interest in the west.

China is asking them to be moderate but doing nothing else. If China did intervene, it would be sickly ironic in light of their ongoing transgressions in Tibet.

[Ed]

What seems to have been forgotten is that thousands of British soldiers died trying to keep Burma free from oppression by the Japanese.

And now they have their own home-grown oppressors who are every bit as brutal.

Makes you wonder, what was the point of it all.

I wonder if we could establish that the generals are stockpiling WMDs...

[John 675]

There is many acts of this same thing all over the world.. Pretty much most of africa.. korea.. burma.. bayroot.. lebinon.. ECT...
but lets face it People wont get involved properly unless we have a cause to do so... like we did in Iraq.. although almost the entire country said dont... the cost was too high for international relations... these acts of violence greed and pluder have gone on for thousends of years and this world is still as civilised as it was in the begining and far from what we think it is...

[northwind]

Im struck by the similarities to Zimbabwe here.It appears that there is very little of economic interest to the big powers in either country

Total are both massively involved in oil exports from Burma... The French get the lion's share of that (Total is part nationalised) but Total UK are the 4th biggest oil company in the UK. 2/3 of all of Burma's international income is oil investment... Allegedly Total paid $300 million to the junta for the oil exportation rights in the mid 90s. THey've not just collaborated, they've encouraged the delpoyment of the military to suppress demonstrations and to clear cvilians for oil development. The only good thing you can say about Total in this is that they're not as bad as Shell in Nigeria :( Unocal, if memory serves, are in partnership with Total.

So, it's not so much that there's nothing of economic interest... Maybe it's the opposite, there's too much economic interest.

[John 675]

Total are both massively involved in oil exports from Burma... The French get the lion's share of that (Total is part nationalised) but Total UK are the 4th biggest oil company in the UK. 2/3 of all of Burma's international income is oil investment... Allegedly Total paid $300 million to the junta for the oil exportation rights in the mid 90s. THey've not just collaborated, they've encouraged the delpoyment of the military to suppress demonstrations and to clear cvilians for oil development. The only good thing you can say about Total in this is that they're not as bad as Shell in Nigeria :( Unocal, if memory serves, are in partnership with Total.

So, it's not so much that there's nothing of economic interest... Maybe it's the opposite, there's too much economic interest.

CHECK THIS

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7019556.stm

[northwind]

Option b then, looks like.

[Pedrosa]

What a beautiful yet horrible place this is. A people held under a ruthless military regime since 1962 who stand for no opposition what so ever. If genuine investigative journalism were allowed to take place, I really can only imagine the horrors that might be uncovered.

The recent outrage and defiance by the people was on seeing fuel prices increased by 500%....yes 500% a burden that an already largely impoverished people could not withstand.

The reason for this atronomical increase? A budget deficit created as a direct result of pay increases handed to civil servants!

We now learn of thousands of monks being banished to prison camps in the north of the country, a place where I doubt many will ever return from.

The only way to have any telling affect here would be for western countries to threaten a boycott of all products from China as they are the dog that wags the Burmese tail.

However the implications of provoking such an awesome and frankly amoral nation could have severe implications for the west.

[Razor]

Source (http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007%5C10%5C03%5Cstory_3-10-2007_pg3_4)

Oil versus monks —Farrukh Saleem

The military junta is determined to unleash another bloodbath. A million Filipinos had responded to Archbishop Jaime Cardinal Sin’s call. To be certain, Burmese revere their monks more than Filipinos revere the Catholic Church. Can the monks bring about democracy for Burma?

America is hungry for Iraq’s oil. Burma is all about oil too. China and India are hungry for Burma’s oil. America loved the Iraqi dictator for as long as the dictator was in America’s economic interest. China and India love the Burmese military junta because the junta has promised them oil (and gas).

Imagine, the day that 20,000 maroon-robed monks marched the streets of Rangoon, the day that the Burmese military shot at the unarmed rally with live bullets was also the day that the Indian Oil Minister Murli Deora was in Rangoon. In Rangoon signing oil and gas exploration contracts between ONGC and the Burmese military junta. China’s interest in the survival of the military junta is two-fold: there’s oil, plus Burma is China’s gateway to the Indian Ocean.

In 1962, Burma was a country whose citizens had one of the highest standards of living in the whole region. Then the general took over. Those were the years when generals in Pakistan, Indonesia, Thailand and Vietnam had also seized political power in their respective countries. The Burmese military junta went a step ahead — in addition to political power they seized economic power as well. In Indonesia, General Sukarno was brought down by General Suharto who himself was thrown out by ‘people power’. Thailand has had three Field Marshals, five Generals, seventeen constitutions and nine civilian governments over the past 50 years.

Burma is the only country where military rule has never been interrupted since the generals first took over in 1962. Reason: the military junta’s absolute monopoly over Burma’s economy. There are 49 million Burmese of whom 400,000 are soldiers.

In 1948, upon gaining independence, Burma was the wealthiest country in the region. Burma had the Burmah Oil Company, a major shareholder in British Petroleum. Burma produced 75 percent of the global supply of teak, the tropical hardwood, and was the world’s largest exporter of oil.

In 1962, the soldiers nationalised every single industry outside of agriculture. The soldiers now control oil, forestry, heavy industry, energy, gems, and rice trade. After 45 years of complete military control, Burma no longer has an economy. Burma has no infrastructure, very few roads are paved and 97 percent of total food grain production is rice. Inflation is rampant; the UN has designated Burma as the ‘least developed country’ and Transparency International has ranked Burma as the ‘most corrupt’ country on the face of the planet.

On 8 August 1988, the ‘8888 Uprising’ brought students out on the streets. The military fired into the crowds and killed thousands. A month of brutal repression brought the uprising to its knees. Nineteen years after 8888, Buddhist monks have now come out protesting. Monks are protesting against high prices and rampant inflation.

No outsider has any leverage over Burma’s military junta. No one but China and India. The roaring Chinese and Indian economies are hungry for oil, hungry for Burma’s oil. In 1986, the Roman Catholic Church in the Philippines led the People Power Revolution that brought down Ferdinand Marcos. Can Buddhist monks do the same in Burma?

The military junta is determined to unleash another bloodbath. A million Filipinos had responded to Archbishop Jaime Cardinal Sin’s call. To be certain, Burmese revere their monks more than Filipinos revere the Catholic Church. Can the monks bring about democracy for Burma? For now, its monks versus oil.

Dr Farrukh Saleem is an Islamabad-based economist and analyst

[Razor]

The Karen people have been fighting the Burmese Army for almost 60 years. In that time very little has been written about this conflict in the western media. No Hollywood blockbusters have been made until Sylvester Stallone made the latest Rambo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYFuwJ-mLtk) flick.

The Stallone interview isn't there to trivialise this issue, just watch it.

Read about the Karen here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_people)

[Razor]

http://www.dvdrama.com/imagescrit/john_rambo_3.jpg