View Full Version : Petrol tax rise
As we all know, it went up 2p/litre yesterday.
Can someone point me to a reason for this rise and why we should have the most expensive fuel in Europe?
the_runt69
02-10-07, 11:32 AM
Because Mr Brown wants a tax surplus for some "sweetners" near to election time
Alpinestarhero
02-10-07, 11:36 AM
Cos people are smoking less now there is a ban in public places, so the tax has to come from somewhere else
Matt
Ceri JC
02-10-07, 11:44 AM
Because private transport is a complete luxury and 90%+ of us could do our journeys on public transport and it'd be better for the environment too, even if we conveniantly overlook the total environmental cost of the railways as being worse than dual-occupancy cars and the fact buses are often ancient polutant-spewing diesels with only a handful of people on them. It's perfectly fair that we should provide over 10% of the total revenue of all taxes and prop up the economy.
Of course, some cynics might say that not everyone lives in london (where public transport is useable), or claim some people do actually need cars or bikes for their job, or that their effect on the environment in negligible, or that they pay a disproportianate amount of tax already. But that's all a load of tosh, isn't it? :D
I'm sorry I thought you've been in the UK for quite sometime now.....I've only been here for 8 years and I certainly know not to question this things.....
CAUSE THERE IS NO REASONABLE ANSWER
:D
I'm looking forwards to the fuel protests again :cool: Another 2.5p rise is guaranteed in april.
For the record ASDA have took on the cost of the rise and their feul has remained at 92.9p
kwak zzr
02-10-07, 12:07 PM
i just filled up at 99.9p per litre:)
diamond
02-10-07, 12:08 PM
Morrisons was still 92.9p this morning.
kwak zzr
02-10-07, 12:10 PM
i just filled up at 99.9p per litre:)
diesel that was, unleaded was 97.9 ppl
Warthog
02-10-07, 12:12 PM
Maybe it'll make gas-guzzling 4x4 chelsea tractor owners think twice about doing the school ruin in them? Probably not...
http://www.foe.co.uk/pubsinfo/briefings/html/20001102081826.html
Plenty of reasons there...
muffles
02-10-07, 12:45 PM
london
public transport is useable
:scratch:
Maybe better, but it's not what I'd call useable! :lol:
P.s. I think that if someone can afford to buy an expensive 4x4, they can afford to pay the petrol. Ahem, not saying they *should* have to pay that much - what I mean is, it won't affect them - it'll affect the people who already have to look out for their economy (of fuel).
I like the london transport system to be honest, if I'm in london for any length of time I park my car at stanmore and use the underground on an all zones ticket for £12 a day or whatever it is now. You can pretty much get anywhere on the tube and if you cant then you can get there fairly reliably on the buses above ground.
If i lived in london i would not pay that everyday though :o......it would have to be 100% bike travel.
Flamin_Squirrel
02-10-07, 12:59 PM
http://www.foe.co.uk/pubsinfo/briefings/html/20001102081826.html
Plenty of reasons there...
Alot of those reasons seem laughable to me.
2. Motorists Should Pay the Full Cost of Driving
Road lobbyists don't reveal that the £26 billion tax taken from motorists is far less than the estimated £44- 51 billion which road transport costs the environment, economy and society. The £44-51 billion figure was calculated by leading environmental economists in 1994 prices.
Way to pull a completely unimpartial figure out of their @rse. I doubt the £26bn includes the VAT the government earns (or rather steals) on vehicle purchases, or on all the other taxes paid by people (income tax, corperation tax etc) who've used their car to make the government money.
Directly comparing taxation and expenditure like the evil road lobyists have done seems fair to me.
3. Lower Fuel Taxes Mean More Traffic
Yes, as we can see as fuel taxes rise the number of cars on our roads is plumeting.
5. It Would Leave Less Money for Public Transport
Hahahahahahah. Right. So how many decades have motorists had to put up with tax increases to "to pay for improved public transport" with no discernable improvements? Seriously, that jokes getting old, it's not funny anymore.
Right lets cut the cr*p about the fuel duty being put there to put off people to using their cars and for the environment. its pure and simple a nice easy thing to tax as 99% of people use it and will still use it even when it goes up.
Whoever said there is viable alternatives, load of utter bull, try living out side a city and see if you think that. You would have to change your jobs to the hours of about 10-3 max to ensure you could get a bus to and from work. If it was to encourage more public transport use, surley they should be opening up more train stations adding bus routes.
Rural public transport isa joke and having a car Is the best way to get about. The case for it puts off Chelsea tractors is ar*e as well. If you can afford a £50K car are you really going to worry about an extra couple of £ per tank to fill it? No you are not, same goes for the tax going up to £400 for them as well.
Really bottom line is its done cos we will whinge about it but cant live with out fuel and so the government knows they can get away with it as conveniently they have not given anyone an alternative. Partly because they sold off all the public transport to private operators who are only interested in profit and wont add un profitable routes in the places that need it should it really become too expensive to use a car.
Bring on the protests.
Oh and the governmet wont care cos do you really think they pay for their own fuel
timwilky
02-10-07, 01:03 PM
Because private transport is a complete luxury and complete bollox
My mother got her OAP pass through the post a few months ago. She has not used it as she doesn't fancy walking the 4 miles to the nearest bus stop.
Buses do run where I live, but not at nights or weekends. The advertised railtime to get to my office in Knutsford (40 miles away) for a 7:30 start is over 7 hours and involves me catching the last bus from my home to preston the night before and sleeping for 5 hours on Piccadilly railway station.
Can someone please explain the concept of pubic transport as I don't understand it.
Flamin_Squirrel
02-10-07, 01:08 PM
Right lets cut the cr*p about the fuel duty being put there to put off people to using their cars and for the environment. its pure and simple a nice easy thing to tax as 99% of people use it and will still use it even when it goes up.
Whoever said there is viable alternatives, load of utter bull, try living out side a city and see if you think that. You would have to change your jobs to the hours of about 10-3 max to ensure you could get a bus to and from work. If it was to encourage more public transport use, surley they should be opening up more train stations adding bus routes.
Rural public transport isa joke and having a car Is the best way to get about. The case for it puts off Chelsea tractors is ar*e as well. If you can afford a £50K car are you really going to worry about an extra couple of £ per tank to fill it? No you are not, same goes for the tax going up to £400 for them as well.
Really bottom line is its done cos we will whinge about it but cant live with out fuel and so the government knows they can get away with it as conveniently they have not given anyone an alternative. Partly because they sold off all the public transport to private operators who are only interested in profit and wont add un profitable routes in the places that need it should it really become too expensive to use a car.
Bring on the protests.
Oh and the governmet wont care cos do you really think they pay for their own fuel
The government might not have been making a profit from trains when they were running them, but that doesn't mean they were any more competant at running a cheap and/or efficient service.
Aside from that, I agree completely. As you point out in your last sentance, the greedy bastids that are screwing us out of our money won't have to pay it themselves either, which is particularly enraging.
JediGoat
02-10-07, 01:12 PM
If you want to find out where the cheapest petrol is nearest to you, these guys do all the checking, and prices are updated regularly. You can even have it emailled to you.
http://www.petrolprices.com/
Jo
The government might not have been making a profit from trains when they were running them, but that doesn't mean they were any more competant at running a cheap and/or efficient service.
.
very true, but now they have not got control over them they have less power to add more services, so cant use it as a sweetener to convince people to use the train, bus etc.
If they had the power to add route we could at leads lobby them to come up with the goods when they say yeah use public transport its great!
diesel that was, unleaded was 97.9 ppl
Cooking oil is only about 49ppl so just mix that 50/50 with your diesel.
Cooking oil is only about 49ppl so just mix that 50/50 with your diesel.
or get the old stuff from the chip shops and filter all the bits out, then just use that!!
Can someone point me to a reason for this rise and why we should have the most expensive fuel in Europe?
According to AA fuel price reports we don't have the most expensive fuel in Europe:
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/fuel/index.html
"The UK has the sixth highest unleaded price in Europe and the second highest diesel price."
Not the best way to begin a thread. SO obviously only your first question needs answering now.........
Biker Biggles
02-10-07, 02:13 PM
I wouldnt have a problem with this tax rise if I thought for one moment the extra money would come off other taxes I pay.But it wont so I do.:ncool:
According to AA fuel price reports we don't have the most expensive fuel in Europe:
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/fuel/index.html
"The UK has the sixth highest unleaded price in Europe and the second highest diesel price."
Not the best way to begin a thread. SO obviously only your first question needs answering now.........
Correction. Our fuel prices are amongst the most expensive in Europe.
Why? I can't see that there is a valid reason and I can't see that you have given any either. To combat global warming I spose. As if we're the main culprit.
Pedrosa
02-10-07, 02:44 PM
There has to be a viable alternative surely? From what I read just on here the volatile diets of many an ORG dweller along with yeasty beer intake,if processed properly the gasses created could power many a family saloon.
Correction. Our fuel prices are amongst the most expensive in Europe.
better.
Why? I can't see that there is a valid reason and I can't see that you have given any either. To combat global warming I spose. As if we're the main culprit.
my reasons wouldn't be to combat global warming, no. I posted that link because they were reasons, not my reasons though. Thats all you asked for.
So what do you want reasons for? Why oil is expensive? Why it is amongst the most expensive in Europe? why we have had 2p tax added?
better.
my reasons wouldn't be to combat global warming, no. I posted that link because they were reasons, not my reasons though. Thats all you asked for.
So what do you want reasons for? Why oil is expensive? Why it is amongst the most expensive in Europe? why we have had 2p tax added?
In the first stupid post you made I resisted the temptation to call you a smartarse.
Funny how someone can be stupid and 'clever' at the same time.
If you have nothing to add then stop posting. Yu have the cheek to call Peter over in Spain a troll but you would do well to follow your own advice.
Pedrosa
02-10-07, 03:21 PM
In the first stupid post you made I resisted the temptation to call you a smartarse.
Funny how someone can be stupid and 'clever' at the same time.
If you have nothing to add then stop posting. Yu have the cheek to call Peter over in Spain a troll but you would do well to follow your own advice.
I have given myself a serious talking to Ed. (I refuse to reply directly to any further posts made by a certain mouth breather who NEVER posts anything of his own creation.);)
I'm sure he is either a mod or someone using a dual passport.:D
In the first stupid post you made I resisted the temptation to call you a smartarse.
How was my first post stupid? You started the thread with factually incorrect information, either by mistake, or with the intention of misleading people. I simply corrected your inaccuracies.
Yu have the cheek to call Peter over in Spain a troll
I never called dear Peter anything of the sort. Just provided the definition of an internet troll, alongside a quote of peters stating that he doesn't believe what he writes, simply writes it to get a reaction. The two were remarkably similar.
How was my first post stupid? You started the thread with factually incorrect information, either by mistake, or with the intention of misleading people. I simply corrected your inaccuracies.
I never called dear Peter anything of the sort. Just provided the definition of an internet troll, alongside a quote of peters stating that he doesn't believe what he writes, simply writes it to get a reaction. The two were remarkably similar.
There you go again. More stupid posts.
You think you're oh so clever.
In fact you're an irritating jerk.
Pedrosa
02-10-07, 03:43 PM
Chill out people!
Ah the gentle, soothing hand in an iron glove.;):)
Ah the gentle, soothing hand in an iron glove.;):)
:cool:
In fact you're an irritating jerk.
Chill Edward. It certainly looks to me like you are contravening the forum rules with insults like that.
And if you took the time to read what I am writing you will find that it is 100% correct.
Watch the video in my sig!
Watch the video in my sig!
Presuming the video content is what I think it is, That would help to explain the rising price of oil (if true of course). However, I think Ed was asking for reasons for why 2p tax has been added (I think anyway, although he hasn't specified and has got a bit grumpy).
Fizz or Ping, please lock this thread. It's going nowhere.
Thanks.
Watch the video in my sig!
Scare mongering and nothing more, much like the "cut CO2 or we'll all fry" farce.
I don't disagree with the "oil is a finite resource" sentiment and the fundamentals of the vid, however disagree with the time scales.
Fizz or Ping, please lock this thread. It's going nowhere.
Thanks.
Ed M8 what has he done to wind you up so much??
Ceri JC
02-10-07, 04:20 PM
Can someone please explain the concept of pubic transport as I don't understand it.
Missed the sarcasm in my post, eh? The whole post was entirely about why it's wrong for them to put duty up on it. :)
They could double the cost of fuel, or even treble it, it would not affect my mileage one iota. 95%+ of my riding and driving these days is 100% necessary and there is no way I could do my job without it. Public transport simply does not work in the vast majority of the country and its benefits (both to individuals and the environment) are frequently exaggerated by people who hate drivers and/or are environmentalists. The one area of the country I have been to where public transport does work (by and large) is London. That said, if I had to choose between playing the stats of a bad off on my bike in London on a regular basis, versus going by tube (which gets so hot and crowded in the summer that I had to get off before my stop to avoid passing out) or bus, I'd still pick bike every time.
For people who don't ride motorbikes though, public transport in London often does make sense (although of course, Londoners already pay an additional tax to counter this in terms of the congestion charge). I was just trying to make out that I can't think of any other city in the UK (and I have been to most of them) that comes close to this situation. I suspect a lot of MP's perception of cars being an uneccessary luxury stems from them spending so much time down in London.
As Flamin Squirrel said, that post to the green "reasons" for duty going up are nonsense. Public transport is getting worse (you can cram your stats if you try to get any "meeting targets" nonsense that mean nothing in the real world to try and rebut this claim), not better, yet costs continue to go up at rates far outstripping inflation and this has been the case for years. As to the "cost to the environment and society" (nice and vague and impossible to accurately quantify) being almost double what is claimed. That's rubbish too. The accurate money "earnt" by the use of vehicles far outstrips just the vat on cars, parts and fuel. If I had to go by public transport, I'd have to take a (more local) job paying about £6-8K less. So that's a few grand extra tax I pay. Considering my whole cost of motoring (including fuel) comes to only about £2K a year (so a few hundred pounds of VAT), my actual contribution as a result of motoring is something like 1:5 vat:extra earnings. So, considering a large number of people are in a similar boat to me, motorists actually pay a lot more than the claimed figure, just like they cost more than the claimed figure.
As both the figures are wooly, the most sensible approach is a direct comparison, which unsurprisingly shows motorists bankrolling everyone else, as they always have done, whilst they continue to drive on poorly policed and in many cases, illegally surfaced and dangerous roads, as well as constantly sitting in traffic because not enough new roads are being built.
Sid Squid
02-10-07, 04:54 PM
Hmmmm... I wonder who our interloper is?
Actually after wondering about it for, ooh two or three seconds, no, I don't wonder at all, I'm-a-thinkin' I know.
How crashingly, boringly, painfully predictable. I had hoped he'd grown up and got a life by now.
Seems not.
I have given myself a serious talking to Ed. (I refuse to reply directly to any further posts made by a certain mouth breather who NEVER posts anything of his own creation.);)
I'm sure he is either a mod or someone using a dual passport.:D
We're here to keep the peace, not stir up cack. :rolleyes:
We ARE watching, however.
:cyclopsani:
Scare mongering and nothing more, much like the "cut CO2 or we'll all fry" farce.
I don't disagree with the "oil is a finite resource" sentiment and the fundamentals of the vid, however disagree with the time scales.
Many people disagree on the time scales, but when demand outstrips demand we're there. Whether as production short fall is caused by geological facts or geopolitical shenanigans. Only time will tell.
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q207/PeakOilData/peaknice-1.jpg
Pedrosa
02-10-07, 09:02 PM
We're here to keep the peace, not stir up cack. :rolleyes:
We ARE watching, however.
:cyclopsani:
Oh Ping, will you ever find it in your heart to forgive me ever making such a suggestion? Pleeeease?[-o<
Pedrosa
02-10-07, 09:05 PM
oops
phil24_7
03-10-07, 01:30 AM
Super unleaded up the road from me (Tesco's) is only 96.9p :-)
Oh Ping, will you ever find it in your heart to forgive me ever making such a suggestion? Pleeeease?[-o<
I'm afraid I can't, you've cut me deep, man... cut me harsh deep... ;)
Anyhoo, back on topic... :lol:
2p rise is nothing compared to what's coming.
People will be looking for someone to blame...
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