Oil Change

[plowsie]

Well that was the biggest anti climax ever lol. Me and Andy(2mths) met at his garage tonight so that he could show me how to do one :D (Never ever done one myself). And i tell you what how frickin easy is that shizz, i was expecting it to be really hard. Saved myself a fair few bob lol.

Didnt change the filter mind....but o well.

So for those of you who may be in doubt and i bit scared/worried to do it don't be, i wish i had never wasted Andys evening TBH it was that simple. But was good to have a natter lol.

Bet you all thought it was the dreaded, what oil do i use or how do i do it question.

Stu

[northwind]

Take out cork. Put cork back in. Add oil. ;) But yet, I still always manage to get oil everywhere somehow, usually by being a cack-handed monkey.

[jambo]

Hein Gericke Oil catch tray (http://www.hein-gericke.com/uk/product_info.php/products_id/1719), best £8 I've spent in a while

Apart from emptying 3L of oil over the garage floor, just about the only thing you can get wrong is to haul good and hard on the sump plug and strip the thread off the crank cases;)

Jambo

[Pedro68]

Or you can do what I did and buy a **** Halfords filter wrench made from bicycle chain and tin opener ... then you can proceed to tear the nuts off the filter AS you remove it, thereby spilling oil all over the place :) I did my own oil & filter change last night - piece of the proverbial it was too ;-)

[jambo]

The cap type that fit over the end of the filter and use a 1/2" socket can't be beat, but when you don't have one and my usual methods fail, a cheap philips screwdriver and a hammer are a slightly messy way to ensure removal :)

[Pedro68]

Jambo, I'd ordered one of those from gingerparts, but that (and the filter, and the oil) never turned up in time, so I had to buy cheaper alternatives. In fact I managed to get the same filter CHEAPER at a store just round the corner from where I work, got the same oil I ordered too, but they were out of filter wrenches - hence going to Halfords for that cheap piece of cr*p. I wasn't gonna pay out for a decent one in Halfords because they were a rip-off for what they were (£13 for a similar tool but just using a sort of metal sheet strap mechanism - at least it wouldn't have ripped the filter but for the price!? no way).

Pete

[2mths]

:-) Most things are easy when you know how.

Years ago I was scared stiff to do an oil change, it took going to college to actually do one.

Once you've done one it should hold no fear. That's not to say that you can't **** one up. Fortunately a mistake is more likely to be messy (spilt oil); or painful (if working on a hot bike) than expensive but stripping a sump plug thread is do-able. All avoidable though with a little care.

As for oil catch trays. Someday I will invest. For the time being my 79p value washing up bowl and an old milk container will do me. Though I am thinking of upgrading that system with a cheap funnel.

Plowsie - Don't worry, my time wasn't wasted. You learned something and as you say a good natter was had. Are we going to try a spot of DIY tyre fitting next?

[petevtwin650]

Plowsie - Don't worry, my time wasn't wasted. You learned something and as you say a good natter was had. Are we going to try a spot of DIY tyre fitting next?

Yeah why not have him over so you can slip on some rubber together.:pukel:

Lots of talc and vaseline may be required.:(

[Sideshow#36]

I use K&N Filters and they have the handy little feature of having a 14mm (i think) nut welded to the top. No more messing around with strap wrenches!

[kwak zzr]

Yeah why not have him over so you can slip on some rubber together.:pukel:

Lots of talc and vaseline may be required.:(

:eek::eek::eek::mrgreen:

[Ceri JC]

Jambo, I'd ordered one of those from gingerparts, but that (and the filter, and the oil) never turned up in time, so I had to buy cheaper alternatives. In fact I managed to get the same filter CHEAPER at a store just round the corner from where I work, got the same oil I ordered too, but they were out of filter wrenches - hence going to Halfords for that cheap piece of cr*p. I wasn't gonna pay out for a decent one in Halfords because they were a rip-off for what they were (£13 for a similar tool but just using a sort of metal sheet strap mechanism - at least it wouldn't have ripped the filter but for the price!? no way).

Pete

There's a nice halfords pro oil filter wrench for about £13. It's one with 3 jaws that tighten as you rotate it off. The way it works, it'll fit a variety of oil filters (not just ones of the same size as your end cap) and it get them off gently enough that they aren't mangled (for example, if you just wanted to drain some oil out). I have tried the strap ones though and you're right, they're rubbish, a long impact screw driver and hammer work better. :D

[kwak zzr]

i'd never pay a garage for a oil and filter on a bike it's money for nothing.

[Tiger 55]

an old milk container will do me.
Clever, clever! I put the old oil from my one and only change (Mrs Tiger's bike...) into the container the new oil had come out of, but I did sort of wonder what I'd do if there was new oil left over. Problem solved!

There's a nice halfords pro oil filter wrench for about £13. It's one with 3 jaws that tighten as you rotate it off.
Since we're in the newb oil change thread, does a wrench like that work in the opposite direction too? I mean is that what you use to put the new filter on?

No such thing as a stupid question is there guys?

Guys?

Fellas?

[kwak zzr]

the new filter goes on hand tight, no tools required.

[Luckypants]

wipe down the filter mating surfaces with a lint free rag, smear a little oil on the new filter 'O'-ring seal, screw on hand tight only. Hand tight means as tight as you can screw it on with one hand, using no tools.

[Smudge]

thats right Kwak as the rubber washer swells when its hot and if you put it on tight it can be a right **** to get off, Stu did you flush out your old filter with fresh oil, there only £4 and the oils over £20 so its worth changing with the oil ive just done mine and got a hiflo filtro filter which ive been told is more than ok

[plowsie]

2mths the tyre fitting is up to you. Would be a laugh :lol:

[Smudge]

i wouldnt Stu if you damage the rims they wont seal properly and you'l need new wheels, its ok with tube types but i wouldnt risk tubeless

[2mths]

The cap type that fit over the end of the filter and use a 1/2" socket can't be beat, but when you don't have one and my usual methods fail, a cheap philips screwdriver and a hammer are a slightly messy way to ensure removal :)

Wot like...

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z144/2mths/Service/OilFilterChange.jpg

[jambo]

That's the one!

I have that method down at about plan C nowadays but It got broken out the other day.....

[yorkie_chris]

I did that to melodys filter, and it ripped the casing before it shifted the filter, had a rather large screwdriver actually flexing about 3/4" with the force.
Ended up using a cold chisel on the rim round the filter to get it off, it was rather tight.

As for the 3 armed filter wrenches, I had a draper expert one, great for cars but didn't go small enough for the SV filter.
You can tighten things with them as well by turning the jaws round if you are so inclined, though most filters should be done hand tight.

[Alpinestarhero]

Did you get the red oil? Isnt it so much cooler than black oil?

I too found it an anti climax when I observed my dad changing my oil.

The oil filter also involves not alot to change - not even a special tool. My dad undid it by hand...

Matt

[yorkie_chris]

Red oil?
Have you been putting ATF in your engine? lol

All the oil I've ever seen has been golden coloured, what sort do you use?

[Alpinestarhero]

Castrol something or another, semi-synthetic I thnk

Matt

[Tiger 55]

the new filter goes on hand tight, no tools required.
Hand tight it is!

Me likey learney...

[Ceri JC]

Yes, I'd always put it on by hand, why risk denting/scratching it using tools. When it's coming off it doesn't matter, but putting it on, I want it to look nice. IIRC, it's supposed the edge of the filter is supposed to be flush, then give it another 2 turns to tighten it up. As an aside, I've never had a problem removing a filter I've put on, but when I have taken ones off that garages have put on they have occassionally been over-tightened (and were real pigs to get off).

[Smudge]

im about to replace my airfilter next for a pipercross one never used them before but only heard good things

[Pedro68]

I was supposed to be following Suzuki service manual instructions in which it says, and I quote ...

"NOTE:
To properly tighten the oil filter, use the special tool. Never tighten the oil filter by hand."

But the general concensus of opinion is "hand tighten only"?

I would concur since the filter that Wyder Wankas put on it was a bu99er to get off!

Thank god I can't follow simple instructions ;-) LOL

[kwak zzr]

lots of ppl seem to think the filter should be welded on to the block.

[Pedro68]

Well for some reason, I'd actually thought I'd seen it written somewhere that the oil filter should only be "hand tightened", so that's what I did. As I intend doing any future oil changes, I'd like to be able to get the damn thing off again without having to rip it off in tiny bits n pieces :)

I guess garages over-tighten just to be "on the safe side" because if it came off or leaked oil, then we'd soon be rushing back to them.

Anyway, if mine leaks now, it's my own fault :-s LOL

[Ceri JC]

Yes, you have to look at it from the garage's pov. They don't want it to come undo and if anything, it's better from their perspective for it to be a pig to get off, you're more likely to go back to them to get it changed next time. I always check my sump plug and filter (as well as my garage floor) for leaks the first couple of times I take the bike out after an oil change, so as long as it doesn't actually fall out, it's no problem if it's a bit loose. That said, neither has ever leaked following an oil change...

[northwind]

All the oil I've ever seen has been golden coloured, what sort do you use?

Castrol GTS semi is red, it's like bike blood :cool: Course, it's black when it comes back out.

[yorkie_chris]

Cool :cool:

May try some just for novelty value lol

[oldie]

Don't over complicate the oil filter removal.

On an SV, you can just use a very cheap set of sliplock pliers. Adjust to size, lightly grip and turn. I always turn the new one on by hand and put a blob of silicone seal on to stop it undoing itself (not that it's very likely to).

Oldie

[melody]

Did an oil and filter change with Chris, and even I think I could manage one on my own.

:smt026:smt026:smt026:smt026

[kwak zzr]

well done melody:)

[JediGoat]

OMG! I'm feeling inspired.......I just might have to change my oil (and filter) soon. Have no idea if it needs doing, but as I said, I'm felling inspired.

I also seem to have the majority of the tools required:

- Washing up bowl
- Bottle of milk
- Hammer
- Screwdriver (some debate it seems on the best size)
- Crikey - I even have a funnel! :cool:

All I need now, is oil, a filter, and not to lose the moment of inspiration ;)

Jo

[yorkie_chris]

Did an oil and filter change with Chris, and even I think I could manage one on my own.

:smt026:smt026:smt026:smt026


Muahahahah

Guess whos getting their hands dirty next time :D

[Kinvig]

OMG! I'm feeling inspired.......I just might have to change my oil (and filter) soon. Have no idea if it needs doing, but as I said, I'm felling inspired.

I also seem to have the majority of the tools required:

- Washing up bowl
- Bottle of milk
- Hammer
- Screwdriver (some debate it seems on the best size)
- Crikey - I even have a funnel! :cool:

All I need now, is oil, a filter, and not to lose the moment of inspiration ;)

Jo

I get my oil filters from this bloke on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Filtrex-Heavy-Duty-015-Oil-Filter-Bandit-GSXR-SV650_W0QQitemZ180069775819QQihZ008QQcategoryZ1053 4QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

v.quick service. If you're doing it in Highgate give me a shout I'll help you guage your oil level when you refill.

[Smudge]

OMG! I'm feeling inspired.......I just might have to change my oil (and filter) soon. Have no idea if it needs doing, but as I said, I'm felling inspired.

I also seem to have the majority of the tools required:

- Washing up bowl
- Bottle of milk
- Hammer
- Screwdriver (some debate it seems on the best size)
- Crikey - I even have a funnel! :cool:

All I need now, is oil, a filter, and not to lose the moment of inspiration ;)

Jo
change it every 2/3000 miles or if it looks black in the inspection window, all you need is a spanner for the drain plug and a container for the use oil filters should come off by hand if your not changing the filter take it off and run some new oil through it

[jambo]

change it every 2/3000 miles or if it looks black in the inspection window, all you need is a spanner for the drain plug and a container for the use oil filters should come off by hand if your not changing the filter take it off and run some new oil through it

Or change it every 3,500 - 4,000 like in the book. It will get black as it absorbs dirt, soot etc from the engine to keep it away from the internals, this shows it's doing its job ;)

[Smudge]

the black is clutch dust, and i like to keep my bike in the best nik possible so fully synth and 2500 oil changes for me

[JediGoat]

Ok....so seeing as it was last changed at the 4.5k service, and there are now 7.5k miles on the clock, should i just change the oil and fillter, or is it best to leave it be and get it done as part of the next service (which I believe is due).

Jo

[plowsie]

Depends if your made of money really, your saving yourself a few quid really. Garage wanted to charge me £40 for summit like that. When it would cost u £20 tops in all the bits u need.

[Smudge]

Ok....so seeing as it was last changed at the 4.5k service, and there are now 7.5k miles on the clock, should i just change the oil and fillter, or is it best to leave it be and get it done as part of the next service (which I believe is due).

Jo
i suppose it depends on whether you service the bike yourself or garage it, personally i would hate to think of someone else touching my bike, i would service it and check if they've changed the filter and check if they changed it with a new one

[JediGoat]

I get my oil filters from this bloke on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Filtrex-Heavy-Duty-015-Oil-Filter-Bandit-GSXR-SV650_W0QQitemZ180069775819QQihZ008QQcategoryZ1053 4QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

v.quick service. If you're doing it in Highgate give me a shout I'll help you guage your oil level when you refill.

Thanks for link....altho I reckon I should dig through my trade catalogues to see if I can find any in there (not that I'm sure what I'm looking for...but that's a minor detail ;) )

Ta for offer of help.....

Jo

[Smudge]

Depends if your made of money really, your saving yourself a few quid really. Garage wanted to charge me £40 for summit like that. When it would cost u £20 tops in all the bits u need.
my god Stu what oil do you use, the oil alone costs me £30 and the filter £4

[plowsie]

Fock me i used HG oil, £13 for 4 litres i think.

[Smudge]

you cheepscate, i use silkolene fully sythetic

[plowsie]

Posh git lol

[Pedro68]

in that case, I'm a posh git too ;-) LOL

My filter change cost me ...
HiFlo Filter 5.99
Silkolene Comp4 (4L) oil 28.99
Halfords filter wrench 3.99
Halfords oil drain/container 6.99
+ 45 minutes out of my life (although next time a lot less cos I'll have a decent bloody filter wrench!)

Jo you have 3 options (IMHO):

1. If you are going to get a garage to do the service then they will do the oil change for you (just be sure to check it afterwards as smudge says).
2. If you feel confident enough, do the service yourself 7.5K service can't be too taxing (can it?)
3. Get someone from the mighty org to help you out ;-)

Option 1 will cost ya.
Option 2 will cost ya eventually because your bike then won't have a dealer-stamped service history - however you will LEARN A LOT.
Option 3 same as option 2 really innit? except you'll have some "to hand" should something go wrong, or you can't remember where that last nut goes :)

Pete

[2mths]

Chaning oil more frequently and using good quality oil certainly isn't going to do a bike any harm. But I can't see it doing a much better job than using reasonable quality oil and following the service schedule over a 'typical' bike's lifetime. If you intend to keep the bike for a long time and or do a lot of miles on it (or indeed thrash the pants of it) then it might matter more.

I looked at the price of a funnel in Tesco yesterday. £1.47 they wanted for a 6" one. One sharp intake of breath later I walked on by. I'll stick to pouring carefully for the time being.

[yorkie_chris]

The service history wouldn't be important to me buying a bike so long as there was some evidence, like reciepts for the oil etc.
Pretty sure my bike will be in better nick getting some bits and bobs worked on every week than one that is done "professionally" once in a blue moon.

[JediGoat]

Jo you have 3 options (IMHO):

1. If you are going to get a garage to do the service then they will do the oil change for you (just be sure to check it afterwards as smudge says).
2. If you feel confident enough, do the service yourself 7.5K service can't be too taxing (can it?)
3. Get someone from the mighty org to help you out ;-)

Option 1 will cost ya.
Option 2 will cost ya eventually because your bike then won't have a dealer-stamped service history - however you will LEARN A LOT.
Option 3 same as option 2 really innit? except you'll have some "to hand" should something go wrong, or you can't remember where that last nut goes :)

Pete

Well, I've decided against option 1. I really need to learn more about how to look after my bike. I had been looking at doing a bike maintenance course, but they always seem to be on a Wednesday evening, and I'm always working then.

So, a combination of options 2 and 3 for me :lol:

Jo

[Smudge]

get yourself an haynes manual there real easy to understand almost idiot proof just make sure when you start taking your bike to bits to place everything in order and marked up, haynes manual not only give you writen instructions but exploded diagrams, go on make yourself proud buy a haynes manual today get a second half price from your local Suzuki dealer lol

[Kinvig]

I looked at the price of a funnel in Tesco yesterday. £1.47 they wanted for a 6" one. One sharp intake of breath later I walked on by. I'll stick to pouring carefully for the time being.

rolled up front cover of the yellow pages works every time ;o)

btw: Filter £6
oil (4 litres): £18.99 from initinity

my time....are you kidding? I'm up playing with my bike & oil - better than being in charge of a barbeque!!!!

[Smudge]

what oil?

[yorkie_chris]

Oh SH!T... that question again!

Search function, its been covered and from the sound of some of the threads people have almost died for their choice of oil lol

On a local note, can get you motul 10/40 which I use and seems alright, for £25/ 4 liters IIRC

[scooby2102]

guys - good advice here - buy the proper filter tool from a Suzuki dealer, it costs approx 6 quid, fits the OEM filter perfectly and more importantly, lets you tighten it properly without damaging it (you wont be able to do it by hand to the correct number of turns).

It will also come off the next time with no problems or skint knuckles.

Also, this may sound obvious but replace the compression washer on the sump plug each time, have seen some dodgy fitting copper washers in my time that have actually broken leaving the sump plug loose (albeit on cages), but the same could happen on your bike.

[Spanner Man]

Oh SH!T... that question again!

Search function, its been covered and from the sound of some of the threads people have almost died for their choice of oil lol





I second that!:D

Cheers.

[SV650Racer]

Silkolene Comp4 isnt fully synthetic. Pro4 is.

Comp4 is 90% fully and about a tenner less than Pro4.

This is all you should ever need in the SV.

I have only ever run Semi in all our race engines with no wear issues.

With modern oils like Silkolene there isnt any need either to do the oil change early for regular road use.

[Spanner Man]

Silkolene Comp4 isnt fully synthetic. Pro4 is.

Comp4 is 90% fully and about a tenner less than Pro4.

This is all you should ever need in the SV.

I have only ever run Semi in all our race engines with no wear issues.

With modern oils like Silkolene there isnt any need either to do the oil change early for regular road use.

STOP IT!!!!! You'll get me started!!:D

Cheers.

[Kinvig]

what oil?

silkolene super 4 10w-40 semi synth.

Actually it cost £17.99 not £18.99

[Ceri JC]

Also, this may sound obvious but replace the compression washer on the sump plug each time, have seen some dodgy fitting copper washers in my time that have actually broken leaving the sump plug loose (albeit on cages), but the same could happen on your bike.

Any advice on where to buy spares for us DIY numpties? Does it have to be copper? Don't suppose you have a link to something appropriate online?

As an aside I think reusing the washer is less of a problem if:
a) It's not already flat as a pancake.
b) You use a torque wrench to do the sump plug back up (so it's not overtightened).

NB: This post isn't BASAT-compliant.

[scooby2102]

Any advice on where to buy spares for us DIY numpties? Does it have to be copper? Don't suppose you have a link to something appropriate online?

As an aside I think reusing the washer is less of a problem if:
a) It's not already flat as a pancake.
b) You use a torque wrench to do the sump plug back up (so it's not overtightened).


Ceri, I get my stuff from a Suzuki dealer, they should have plenty in stock as its part of a service kit.

They are not designed to be used more than once but if it was an emergency, then reuse short term until you get the proper one.

Not really sure about what they are made of (the compression ones), the copper ones are usually bright orange (like a copper colour :p) - these are the ones I dont use.

Re torque settings - I set it less than the manual says as I just feel its too tight when going exactly by the book (its a personal thing after many years on the tools and seeing busted sumps etc)

Hope this aint confusing ref the torque settings

[Ceri JC]

Ceri, I get my stuff from a Suzuki dealer, they should have plenty in stock as its part of a service kit.

May I ask how much you pay for this pleasure? I take it this is one of these "damned expensive for what they are" components like the £6 caliper retaining bolts? :)

[scooby2102]

May I ask how much you pay for this pleasure? I take it this is one of these "damned expensive for what they are" components like the £6 caliper retaining bolts? :)


will check the receipts, dont think it was too bad though

[yorkie_chris]

£1 last time I bought one, and yes that is foooking ridiculous

[ejohnh]

Semi synth is fine for SV. Just do your oil change early rather than late.

In 45 years of changing car and bike oil I've not used a new sump washer and never had any problems because of it. Maybe I'm just lucky :confused:

[yorkie_chris]

In 45 years of changing car and bike oil I've not used a new sump washer and never had any problems because of it. Maybe I'm just lucky :confused:

+1 though I'm not that old.

[northwind]

I had my sump washer go ever so slightly leaky after, um, maybe the 8th oil change. Nothing drastic but it was irritating, so I replaced it. Somewhere in the garage I have a wee bag of 5 washers that I cunningly bought to avoid this ever happening again, then cunningly lost.

[Lozzo]

I use K&N Filters and they have the handy little feature of having a 14mm (i think) nut welded to the top. No more messing around with strap wrenches!

Little known fact: K+N bike oil filters are actually made by a company called Hiflofiltro - they're well enough made, but not actually K+N's own work.

[Lozzo]

Just to back it up and show how a good or bad filter is made.

http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/FilterStudy.html

For the record, Vesrah make oil filters for the Suzuki, Honda, Kawasaki and Yamaha factories. They also supply virtually every brake pad used on a new Japanese bike regardless of the caliper manufacturer, as well as control cables and shedloads of other stuff like engine valves for Kawasakis. Vesrah as a company are absolutely huge, and the No.1 OE supplier to the Japanese bike manufacturing industry. My ex has a PhD in Mechanical Engineering and is a development engineer working on new car engine designs, and she has taken a number of filters apart. She agrees with the findings in the article I've linked to.

When I do an oil and filter change on my bikes I'll only use OE filters or Vesrah, same goes for brake pads. I don't like the way EBC HH pads destroy discs in a way that OE or Vesrah JLs don't.

[Spanner Man]

I don't like the way EBC HH pads destroy discs in a way that OE or Vesrah JLs don't.

Good morning all.

Digressing somewhat, I have to disagree with that rather sweeping statement.
Having used EBC HH since they came out, I have found that Disc life is not adversely effected by the use of HH pads when one takes into consideration the extra braking performance they give you.
Granted, it's difficult not to use some of the increased performance available, but obviously if one uses all of the increased performance one will suffer a consequent reduction in disc life.

Cheers.

[northwind]

Mmm... But I'd say the braking performance you get from, say, Carbon Lorraine SBK3 is about the same, and they don't wear discs as fast in my own experience. Said experience is frankly too short to read much into but I've seen a few folks say the same.

[RhythmJunkie]

Tree bark is great for stopping motorbikes!
Doesn't wear the discs at all!
Bends the forks a bit though!
:)

[RhythmJunkie]

By the way...

Pretty sure my bike will be in better nick getting some bits and bobs worked on every week than one that is done "professionally" once in a blue moon.

....so true!