View Full Version : Lots of Smoke and now no oil.
Helga decided that she had enough this morning and while filtering through traffic on the A3 north bound at the Queen Elizabeth Country park, I notice I seemed to be producing rather a lot of smoke.
So I pull over to the junction of the entrance in to the park and notice smoke poring off my bike, so I shut off the engine and then see all the oil. First i think its coming out off the exhaust, but it looks more like its from the underside of the bike as its covered most of the back end and tyre. Lucky I managed to keep it upright, as there is nice oil trail left by me as I come off the road!
At the same time another bike pulled off with me and asked if I was OK and checked that I had recovery and a phone (the guy was on a new Gixer). So that was nice. He said he thought it was a bit foggy when he joined the dual carriageway then noticed it was me... lol.
Managed to get quickly recovered by a guy in a proper motorcycle recovery van with the floor that drops, got to me nice and quick and he was nice and chatty, so that was good. SOS recovery I think, so I will recommend them in the future, and might write a letter to Carol Nash to say how happy I was.
Anyway, here are the picks, first 2 are at the side of the A3 and the others are taken on my drive.
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/th_IMAGE_00409.jpg (http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/IMAGE_00409.jpg)http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/th_IMAGE_00408.jpg (http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/IMAGE_00408.jpg)http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/th_DSC00731.jpg (http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/DSC00731.jpg)http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/th_DSC00730.jpg (http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/DSC00730.jpg)
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/th_DSC00729.jpg (http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/DSC00729.jpg)http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/th_DSC00728.jpg (http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/DSC00728.jpg)http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/th_DSC00727.jpg (http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/DSC00727.jpg)
Ya killed it :(
Yep its my new scottoiler mod. ;)
As the photos are blocked at work I can't see them. Are you sure it is not the oil breather pipes come away?
Biker Biggles
12-10-07, 11:22 AM
Thats a lot of oil come out.Can you see where it is coming from?Sump plug still in I take it,or has the front sprocket seal gone?
Maybe not terminal if so.
Good to see a nicely oiled chain, and with winter approaching I admire your attempts to stop the bike corroding, however, in today's environmentally friendly age, I cannot condone not capturing the excess and disposing of it properly!
:p
yorkie_chris
12-10-07, 11:30 AM
Well guessing by the mess I'd reckon on a shaft seal, if it was the front sprocket then that would sling oil all over the place.
As the photos are blocked at work I can't see them. Are you sure it is not the oil breather pipes come away?
At the moment I have no idea, I didn't really want to look to hard at the side of the road. Plus with all the oil every where I can't see, be giving it a good look over tomorrow.
Thats a lot of oil come out.Can you see where it is coming from?Sump plug still in I take it,or has the front sprocket seal gone?
Maybe not terminal if so.
I suspect sprocket seal, and I didn't notice the sump plug missing.
Good to see a nicely oiled chain, and with winter approaching I admire your attempts to stop the bike corroding, however, in today's environmentally friendly age, I cannot condone not capturing the excess and disposing of it properly!
:p
Cheers Jambo always there with the real help.
Cheers Jambo always there with the real help.
:thumbsup:
I have been told if the front sprocket nut comes loose the oil will be able to get past the gearbox output shaft seal, so possibly start there, checking there's a decent ammount of torque on it.;)
:thumbsup:
I have been told if the front sprocket nut comes loose the oil will be able to get past the gearbox output shaft seal, so possibly start there, checking there's a decent ammount of torque on it.;)
Sid said the same...
Alpinestarhero
12-10-07, 03:42 PM
Grinch, I think you have a problem there. My advice is dont ride it :rolleyes: OR!!!! take alot of oil with you, and keep filling up as you go along?
Na, seriously, what a bummer! Good to know carol nash breakdown thingy is good though, I have that on my policy
Matt
And don't try to steer round bends. The rear is quite likely to get round before the front.
You know oil is like blood. A small amount can cover a very large area giving the impression that there is masses of it all over the place when in fact it's not really that much.
I remember when my engine breather pipe came loose, the whole back end of the bike was drenched in oil but the oil level was still spot on.
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/th_DSC00732.jpg (http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/DSC00732.jpg)
First we can see that the front sprocket nut is loose.
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/th_DSC00733.jpg (http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/DSC00733.jpg)
And then we see that the washer is completely stuffed.
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/th_DSC00734.jpg (http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/DSC00734.jpg)
So we need to get the chain and sprocket off.
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/th_DSC00735.jpg (http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/DSC00735.jpg)
Look how minging the back of my bike now is!
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/th_DSC00736.jpg (http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/DSC00736.jpg)
Got the sprocket nut off and we can see the spacer.
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/th_DSC00737.jpg (http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/DSC00737.jpg)
Now behind it looks all clean and nothing to torn apart.
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/th_DSC00739.jpg (http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/DSC00739.jpg)
Another angel.
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/th_DSC00740.jpg (http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/DSC00740.jpg)
And another.
So looking at this would you say that front sprocket has come loose, allowing the sprocket to move and the pressure seal around the shaft the leak out oil?
If so I think that I just get a new washer, and torque up the front sprocket correctly (145 nm), add some oil and all should be fine?
And there ain't alot of oil in the bike, as its below the min level atleast.
Biker Biggles
12-10-07, 06:55 PM
Sounds like you got it stopped before you lost oil pressure so it shouldn't have done any damage.
My lads front sprocket came off last year(Curvy K1)and it didn't leak oil so I don't know if yours has damaged the seal.
I've had that happen to my washer too. And that was after torquing it up. I get paranoid now and always spend the next two weeks after a sprocket and chain change checking it.
Never lost any oil though.
JessicaRabbit
12-10-07, 07:30 PM
All that, and when he eventually got home he'd just missed a cooked breakfast too. Mwahahahahaha!! Although I'm not ALL bad, I did make him sarnies from the leftover cooked sausages. :D
All that, and when he eventually got home he'd just missed a cooked breakfast too. Mwahahahahaha!! Although I'm not ALL bad, I did make him sarnies from the leftover cooked sausages. :D
Your all heart. :lol:
Have just spoken to Sid and from what I have told him and what he originally said to me when it happened it looks as though just cleaning it all up and trying again should be fine.
Ceri JC
13-10-07, 01:11 PM
Thanks for the detailed explanation Grinch and ta especially for the pics, always useful to see how exactly failed bits look.
Same happened to my exes Daytona 600. Luckily it didn't wipe out the oil seal but it did wreck the lockwasher and front sprocket. It was the original chain and sprockets and only 4000 miles old so all fixed under warranty.
petevtwin650
13-10-07, 03:12 PM
Shows it probably pays to replace the lock washer every sprocket change..... although I haven't. Better go check. :(
And can you change the gearbox sprocket drive seal easily?
I would say no to changing the seals easy as I looked at my manual and it seems to imply that I will have to take most of the lower left side of the engine.
Anyway... more updates.
So time for some more pictures, very busy day, and rather tired.
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/th_DSC00741.jpg (http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/DSC00741.jpg)
So after a lot of cleaning with paraffin I got most of the real bad oil off, changed the last of the oil out and oil filter.
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/th_DSC00742.jpg (http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/DSC00742.jpg)
Looks almost clean, still needs a good jet wash.
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/th_DSC00743.jpg (http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/DSC00743.jpg)
This was just a oily black mess.
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/th_DSC00744.jpg (http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/DSC00744.jpg)
Now as you can see I seem to leaking a bit of oil still from the clutch push rod, which I supect is because the clutch push is not on.
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/th_DSC00745.jpg (http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/DSC00745.jpg)
If you look carefully your see some smoke from the exhaust when I started the engine.
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/th_DSC00747.jpg (http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/DSC00747.jpg)
After taking it too the jet wash to get the last of the oil and paraffin off.
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/th_DSC00748.jpg (http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/DSC00748.jpg)
Push rod looks like its not leaking now.
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/th_DSC00749.jpg (http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t155/lgmdaniel/Broken%20down%20SV/DSC00749.jpg)
Much better.
Jobs a-good 'un.
Going to be riding the bike to work on Wednesday to pick up the new washer thing too. Once it all looks good I will probably put my belly pan back on too.
tomjones2
15-10-07, 03:58 PM
Yep its my new scottoiler mod. ;)
Lubricated tyres, cuts rolling resistance in half.
Spanner Man
16-10-07, 06:58 AM
Morning all.
I've seen this problem on a couple of SV's, usually not long after a chain & sprocket change.
Tab washers should only ever be used once, I always replace them every time. On Suzukis I always replace the nut too, as it has a locking compound in it, which turns to Kryptonite. Out of the 1000+ Suzukis upon which I've replaced the chain & sprockets, I've never had one come undone.
Always degrease the shaft before installing the nut as grease, will reduce the effectiveness of the locking compound.
Interestingly Suzuki use the same nut on most models, yet the torque figure varies widely, & most models do not have a tab washer. Makes one think that the nut loosening was a problem in the development of the model, hence the increased torque figure & the use of a tab washer.
Cheers.
Well thats something to remember.
tomjones2
16-10-07, 08:52 AM
Morning all.
I've seen this problem on a couple of SV's, usually not long after a chain & sprocket change.
Tab washers should only ever be used once, I always replace them every time. On Suzukis I always replace the nut too, as it has a locking compound in it, which turns to Kryptonite. Out of the 1000+ Suzukis upon which I've replaced the chain & sprockets, I've never had one come undone.
Always degrease the shaft before installing the nut as grease, will reduce the effectiveness of the locking compound.
Interestingly Suzuki use the same nut on most models, yet the torque figure varies widely, & most models do not have a tab washer. Makes one think that the nut loosening was a problem in the development of the model, hence the increased torque figure & the use of a tab washer.
Cheers.
Cheers for that, I always thought that the torque figures seemed exceesive for this, little did I know this problem. My experience of taken 2 sprokets of sv has been a pain both times, one needed an airgun.
Spanner Man
16-10-07, 01:19 PM
My experience of taken 2 sprokets of sv has been a pain both times, one needed an airgun.
I'm not surprised! The Suzuki gearbox sprocket nut has been the undoing (pun intentional) of many a competent DIY'er.
I had a not so competent DIY'er bring one in with all corners of the nut totally rounded off! The plonker had tried using an adjustable spanner!:toss: .
Hey I like a challenge, but thank gawd for mini grinders & an air chisel eh!:D
Cheers.
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