View Full Version : New tyres, fell off!
Spanner Man
26-10-07, 07:44 AM
Morning all.
I fitted a new Road Attacks & a chain & sprockets to a customers SV last night. Which due to my customer not arriving until late resulted in him leaving at 8pm. My last words to him were; 'take it really easy on the new tyres'. He departed & I started locking up. A few minutes later he returned having dropped his bike at the roundabout leaving the Industrial estate.
He was ok, but his bike is a tad battered, (thank gawd for gaffa tape)
The temperature was around 6 or 7 degrees & it was slightly damp. Obviously the new tyres contributed to his 'off' but so did the slight changes to the temperature & road conditions, it was dry & around 10 degrees when he arrived.
So beware these slight changes in conditions folks. They could catch you out.
Cheers.
petevtwin650
26-10-07, 07:51 AM
Yes, a topical point this time of year.
At least you were there to patch him up. :cheers:
One of the guys I know is a bike cop and had new tyres fitted to his 955. Gunned it leaving the fitters and binned it whilst still on their property. Happens to the best of us.
Spanner Man
26-10-07, 07:55 AM
Happens to the best of us.
Certainly does! I've only managed to do it once, but it hurt & cost me a small fortune!:(
Cheers.
It makes me grin every single time my fitter fits new tyres to my wheels. He says the same thing to every single person he fits tyres for. I was in the shop the other day, just chatting away waiting my turn. He had just finished fitting new front and rear to a fireblade owner. "Go careful on these new tyres" says Mark the fitter.
"Yeah, like whatever", says blade owner with a look to Mark as if to say "you teaching me to suck eggs or what?"
two minutes later as he pulls out of the shop and onto the road, does a complete doughnut wheel spin and ends up on his ****.
We both just stood outside the shop watching him pick his bike up and wheel it to the side of the road. We then both went back in the shop and carried on with my bike. A few minutes later I left the shop and blade owner is at the side of the road on his mobile, presumably calling recovery. I gave him a nod and then chuckled all the way to work. :lol:
So yes, I don't mind being told about taking it easy on new tyres at all.
Luckypants
26-10-07, 08:39 AM
My tyre fitting place has a little disclaimer at the bottom of thier invoice to which they ask you to sign to say you have been told to take it easy on new tyres for first 200 miles. What happens if I go to London on the M-way then hit the twisties with the shoulders not scrubbed in? ;) (hypothetically of course, because I avoid M-ways and London)
I'm yet to experience the new new tyre sensation, its didnt feel that bad when i picked up the bike from new but guess its worse with aftermarket tyres.
I would have thought a police rider would have know better though.
Spanner Man
26-10-07, 09:13 AM
I'm yet to experience the new new tyre sensation, its didnt feel that bad when i picked up the bike from new but guess its worse with aftermarket tyres.
I would have thought a police rider would have know better though.
Modern tyres scrub in pretty quickly, & replacement tyres are usually better than the originals, especially if they were those hideous MEZ4's or D220's.
Police riders are no better than us 'ordinary' types, except that they have bigger ego's!:D
I avoid London too Luckypants, I lived there for nearly 43 years, & that was more than enough!
Cheers.
fizzwheel
26-10-07, 09:24 AM
I get reminded every time I leave Micheldever, same tyre guy every time and I'm pretty regular customer in there, he grins at me when he says it, but I'm always extra careful coming out of there because of the warning, so it does its job.
So why are new tyres "slippery" ? And what is it that scrubs them in... ?
It's a release compound used so the tires do not stick to the mold during production.
Scrubbing them in is using the road surface to scrub off this compound before it is ready for serious lean angles and speeds.
The molds the tyres are removed from have a 'grease' or something to help get them out when they are set, it takes a little time for the tyres to warm up and work this grease out. So until they heat up they will be extra slippy.
Personally, I have always found as soon as the shiny surface has gone, then that has been enough to use the tyre as normal. I tend to try and get a tyre scrubbed in within 20 miles or so. I can then stop worrying about tipping into corners or throttling out of them.
Welsh_Wizard
26-10-07, 09:56 AM
When i bought my new bike only 2 weeks ago (new bike so not even better/special tyres..) i had a similar moment.. coming up to a junction and a car let me go, scooted across and subsequently missed 3rd gear (it stayed in 2nd), dumped the clutch abit heavier than i should have (new bike - new rider - forgive me) and before i know it, i'm fishtailing the back wheel and the bike is all over the place.
Absolutely crapped my pants as there was only 7miles on the clock at this point.. luckily was going really slow (new bike remember) so managed to just ease off the throttle and bring it back under control.
philbut
26-10-07, 09:56 AM
Would that be Mark at Ride-in-Reading then BigApe? The junction to get out of that place is a bit random (as is the metal post just outtside the fitting bay). Still, Ive never managed to loose it on nwe tyres. Riding on egg shells for the first trip back to Oxford, then all seems fine.
Would that be Mark at Ride-in-Reading then BigApe? The junction to get out of that place is a bit random (as is the metal post just outtside the fitting bay). Still, Ive never managed to loose it on nwe tyres. Riding on egg shells for the first trip back to Oxford, then all seems fine.
Correctamundo.
Metal post :?:
philbut
26-10-07, 10:48 AM
yep, its one of those security jobbies. It is usually folded down just to the left of the entrance door as you ride in. I went to ride round a GSXR that was parked in the way the first time i went there, didn't see it and nearly ended up takin the GSXR out! you should have seen the guys face :-) fortunatly years of MX riding came into play and I saved it.
[quote=BigApe;1323180]
...
two minutes later as he pulls out of the shop and onto the road, does a complete doughnut wheel spin and ends up on his ****.
quote]
Happened to a mate of mine in front of us ( No names Colin ;) ). As soon as his rear tyre hit the tarmac coming out of the warehouse he was off... BUT he successfully claimed against the shop because they'd left so much tyre fitting goop on the tread it had made the bike unridable. Scubbing in a new tyre is one thing. Scrubbing in a new tyre in damp copnditions when it's covered in half a gallon of soap paste is another. (not aimed at you Spannerman, this was a well known shop on Wesgate road in Newcastle)
We had a similar thing in the car. Fitted two new tyres (Federal) and then headed off to the lakes camping for the weekend. Unfortunately, as soon as we left the garage it started raining and the rain didn't ease for five days. So no scrubbing in of the rear tyres. Very interesting in a fully loaded 406 estate on polished A roads. We ended up facing the wrong way over a dozen times and roundabouts were impossible. I ended up swapping them with the front on the camp site and spinning the wheels on rough country roads to get the things roughened up.
Back in the days when I used to commute all year round on my bike, I used to sand the tyres down before leaving the garage in thew winter(I used to fit them myself) five minutes with a a very rough paper (grit paper) and it was 75% scrubbed in.
When someone says "take it easy for the first 200 miles" ride like the bikes got stabilisers on if it's wet! :)
yorkie_chris
26-10-07, 12:02 PM
I've heard of people doing burnouts on new tyres to scrub in the centers, anybody know if this works or what?
I've heard of people doing burnouts on new tyres to scrub in the centers, anybody know if this works or what?
Yup.
1st thing I do every time a tyre is fitted is give it a load of welly and get down to the grippy canvas wall underneath that silly slippy rubber.
Flamin_Squirrel
26-10-07, 01:16 PM
We had a similar thing in the car. Fitted two new tyres (Federal) and then headed off to the lakes camping for the weekend. Unfortunately, as soon as we left the garage it started raining and the rain didn't ease for five days. So no scrubbing in of the rear tyres.
:smt108
pencil shavings
26-10-07, 01:28 PM
ive always wondered why there isnt a machine that you put the wheels with the new tyres on into and it spins the wheels and scrubs in the tyres? wouldnt this solve all the issues with new tyres?? :confused:
Flamin_Squirrel
26-10-07, 01:44 PM
ive always wondered why there isnt a machine that you put the wheels with the new tyres on into and it spins the wheels and scrubs in the tyres? wouldnt this solve all the issues with new tyres?? :confused:
There is a machine, it's called a motorcycle ;)
Welsh_Wizard
26-10-07, 01:47 PM
also, what benefit would this machine have to the big players who could invent it??
It would only take away a rather healthy spare parts market that exists when people scream around on slippery tyres !!
(or is that just me being too cynical ??)
pencil shavings
26-10-07, 01:52 PM
also, what benefit would this machine have to the big players who could invent it??
It would only take away a rather healthy spare parts market that exists when people scream around on slippery tyres !!
(or is that just me being too cynical ??)
possibly
I would pay an extra £5 or what ever to have my tyres scrubbed in by a machine so they are safe from the off. especially in the winter, new tyres and cold/rain cant be fun
:smt108
I have no idea what this Smiley means (despite research) :)
Warthog
26-10-07, 02:26 PM
I have no idea what this Smiley means (despite research) :)
suspicion I beleive
Pedrosa
26-10-07, 02:38 PM
Actually I think all tyre fitting operations suck! Why? Well a bucket of slightly soapy water and a green scouring pad could be used to remove virtually all of the offending compound residue in about 1 minute for both wheels. A quick dry off with a rag or paper towel and jobs done.:confused:
So the Flaming Squirrel doesn't believe a car tyre (harder than a bike tyre) needs scrubbing in? Of does he not believe we went to the Lakes? Or that it was raining for five days? Or that a fully loaded 406 estate Spins in the wet on polished A roads and roundabouts? Or that the tyres were Federals?
The garage was Roger Clarke's (01765 640667). Perhapse the Flippin Squiggle would like to phone them and ask if I took the car back to see if it was something more than the tyres when we returned?
Perhapse he's like to talk to my kids who had a very entertaining Long weekend in a car sliding all over the place?
Carl
ASM-Forever
26-10-07, 03:06 PM
Perhapse he's like to talk to my kids who had a very entertaining Long weekend in a car sliding all over the place?
Carl
You didn't leave a contact number........ :p
Biker Biggles
26-10-07, 03:13 PM
All fighting to take place with the illicit smokers behind the bikesheds after school please girls.
Handbags allowed.:takeabow::smt066No knuckledusters.
Blue_SV650S
26-10-07, 03:15 PM
I'll never suffer from this ....
...
...
...
as I never buy new tyres!! :D
See, there are some advantages to being a cheapskate!! :smt045
Flamin_Squirrel
26-10-07, 03:55 PM
So the Flaming Squirrel doesn't believe a car tyre (harder than a bike tyre) needs scrubbing in? Of does he not believe we went to the Lakes? Or that it was raining for five days? Or that a fully loaded 406 estate Spins in the wet on polished A roads and roundabouts? Or that the tyres were Federals?
The garage was Roger Clarke's (01765 640667). Perhapse the Flippin Squiggle would like to phone them and ask if I took the car back to see if it was something more than the tyres when we returned?
Perhapse he's like to talk to my kids who had a very entertaining Long weekend in a car sliding all over the place?
Carl
Saying tyres don't get scrubbed in in the wet is bollox! That is all.
Spanner Man
26-10-07, 04:03 PM
[quote=BigApe;1323180]
...
quote]
Happened to a mate of mine in front of us ( No names Colin ;) ). As soon as his rear tyre hit the tarmac coming out of the warehouse he was off... BUT he successfully claimed against the shop because they'd left so much tyre fitting goop on the tread it had made the bike unridable. Scubbing in a new tyre is one thing. Scrubbing in a new tyre in damp copnditions when it's covered in half a gallon of soap paste is another. (not aimed at you Spannerman, this was a well known shop on Wesgate road in Newcastle)
Too true about the paste type tyre lubricants, I've known garages that made new tyres look like whitewalls after fitting them!
I use a liquid lubricant sparingly, & any excess I remove with a damp rag.
I've had the 'suck eggs' look from many a customer when I tell them to take it easy. Better that than 'I've come off & it's your fault' though eh!
Cheers.
So Squiggle, You've talked to Roger have you? ;)
Done Scientific tests have you? Actually tried it have you? Measured how long Scrubbing takes in the wet versus dry have you? Driven my 406 with new tyres in the wet have you?
Or are you jusy assuming it's bollox?
Tell you what, go and fit new tyres to your bike when it buckets down on Sunday and see how far over you can lean!
Oh, sorry, forgot, you're bike's bollox becasue you fell off it.. in the dry... on a track.
You must be a Tyre expert! ;)
plowsie
26-10-07, 06:32 PM
I hope these two know each other and are messing about or is this getting out of hand :lol:
I rode new tyres 3 weeks ago, front and back, lashing it down all day and didnt stop once i had bike back. It stopped raining and by 30 miles i was confident enough to sling bike around. By 70 i was back to old days on grippy tyres.
I hope these two know each other and are messing about or is this getting out of hand :lol: .
I don't know, but refreshing for updates! :lol:
plowsie
26-10-07, 07:07 PM
Same as :twisted:
bit slow today.I thought your new tyres really did fall off
TheDangerousQuietOne
27-10-07, 12:25 AM
Last new tyre I had on I picked my bike up after havin it nearly rebuilt after a big crash. First ride in 4 months, new front tyre, ****in it down with rain...I was riding on eggshells and crappin myself the whole way home, scariest ride of my life!
SV650Racer
27-10-07, 08:27 AM
Leaning over isnt the problem. Its the amount of throttle / brake or speed that causes the problems on new tyres.
Ive taken a stock supercorsa brand new off the start line and was straight onto race pace..BUT i leaned it right over but didnt give it big handfuls for a lap..neither did i trail brake.
Ok the supercorsa heats quicker and on track the lean angles you use are often greater.
Rule of thumb..allow until you can visably see that the surface of the tyre is scrubbed in, run the correct pressures, dont give big handfuls and be smmmmmmoooooooooth.
Oh and yes you can scrub tyres in the wet..i scrubbed a set of slicks in before in the rain (it caught me out!)..:cool:
Blue_SV650S
27-10-07, 10:00 AM
Leaning over isnt the problem. Its the amount of throttle / brake or speed that causes the problems on new tyres.
Ive taken a stock supercorsa brand new off the start line and was straight onto race pace..BUT i leaned it right over but didnt give it big handfuls for a lap..neither did i trail brake.
Ok the supercorsa heats quicker and on track the lean angles you use are often greater.
Rule of thumb..allow until you can visably see that the surface of the tyre is scrubbed in, run the correct pressures, dont give big handfuls and be smmmmmmoooooooooth.
Oh and yes you can scrub tyres in the wet..i scrubbed a set of slicks in before in the rain (it caught me out!)..:cool:
Sarah, you must try and start differentiating between track and road riding .... its not the same in so many ways ...
You are talking about use on a grippy track, BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY you have presumably used tyre warmers first!?! :rolleyes: Pre-warming tyres not only gives initial heat, but also helps 'sweating' out the release compound.
I agree, you can go very hard on pre-heated unscrubbed tyres, in fact you HAVE to push them hard on the warm-up lap (1-2 miles) as you need to be be 100% on it as soon as the flag drops (well lights go out!! :D). I used to like new tyres to sweat for at least 2hrs before riding and presuming I hadn't been left sitting about too long in the collecting area to let them cool off, I could/would/had to go 90-95% (including braking and power) on the warmup lap!! ... so what you say has merit, but under some very specific circumstances. :smt019
You go out on a stone cold road tyre that has never 'sweated' in a set of warmers - on ROAD suspension and ROAD conditions - you need more caution!! ;)
I'd say even if you were cautious with throttle and brakes, if you went out and max-leaned a cold road tyre - on the road - in winter - on road suspension - you are gonna 'have a bad day' ;)
the white rabbit
27-10-07, 10:10 AM
I have no idea what this Smiley means :smt108 (despite research) :)
It's not so much a smiley as the face Complainin' Squirrel's makes as he tries to blame Gordon Brown for just about everything.
SV650Racer
27-10-07, 11:00 AM
Max lean i didnt say and i also showed that i was differentiating between track and road by stating they were on track. Neither did i mention hot or cold tyres.
You can lean over, its the amount of force thats important on new tyres. IE determined by how much you throttle on, brake or how fast your going. All these varaibles in greater quantities add more strain upon the tyre.
At the end of the day what i said "Rule of thumb..allow until you can visably see that the surface of the tyre is scrubbed in, run the correct pressures, dont give big handfuls and be smmmmmmoooooooooth" applies to ALL tyres, road, race, cold or heated.
Just because i race doesnt mean i dont know the score with road tyres..ive been riding on the road for nearly 14 years now, 6 years of that all year round as I had no car. By applying the above statement i made has ensured i have never had yet a cold brand new tyre crash. I have even ridden on road tyres on track, Macadams in fact so understand how they work.
Just be careful out there anyway, this time of year regardless of new tyres or not..its greasy..take it easy.
Not all tyre companies use a release compound. I believe this is now much less common than it was in the past. The surface of the tyre is smooth rather than rough because you use a nice smooth, even mould for making tyres. once the surface is rougher there is more grip.
Jambo.
Blue_SV650S
27-10-07, 11:29 AM
Max lean i didnt say and i also showed that i was differentiating between track and road by stating they were on track. Neither did i mention hot or cold tyres.
You can lean over, its the amount of force thats important on new tyres. IE determined by how much you throttle on, brake or how fast your going. All these varaibles in greater quantities add more strain upon the tyre.
At the end of the day what i said "Rule of thumb..allow until you can visably see that the surface of the tyre is scrubbed in, run the correct pressures, dont give big handfuls and be smmmmmmoooooooooth" applies to ALL tyres, road, race, cold or heated.
Just because i race doesnt mean i dont know the score with road tyres..ive been riding on the road for nearly 14 years now, 6 years of that all year round as I had no car. By applying the above statement i made has ensured i have never had yet a cold brand new tyre crash. I have even ridden on road tyres on track, Macadams in fact so understand how they work.
Just be careful out there anyway, this time of year regardless of new tyres or not..its greasy..take it easy.
No you didn't say max-lean, I paraphrased ... you actually said "Ive taken a stock supercorsa brand new off the start line and was straight onto race pace..BUT i leaned it right over but didnt give it big handfuls for a lap..neither did i trail brake." To me that is the same thing, no?! ;)
Also I did say you presumably cooked them first (if you were racing, I can't believe you didn't - unless it was some drastic last second decision/swap you would always have fitted warmers before a race - anyway, hence the use of the word presumably just in case it was a special case!) did you heat your tyres on that particular occasion?? ;)
I guess what I was saying is that I am not sure that putting down what can be done on track under very specific circumstances is of much/any use in this context ... if anything it might possibly add confusion/mislead people slightly if they don't 100% appreciate/pick out the crucial aforementioned differences.
As a reader, there was an inference that you can go straight out on the road and leaned it right over - as long as you were smooth ... you might be able to do that?? but I'd never try it myself ... I think that will end in a bad day ... you at no point differentiated when you were talking about road or track use so far as I can tell .. if you ever were talking about road use?!?! ;)
ANYWAY to try and contribute to the thread rather than just lock horns again with you!! :oops:
:- I would say that scrubbing in on the road is a gradual process - the crucial factor is to get some heat in first (but then isn't it always, even with scrubbed tyres??) ... in the winter this will take a few more miles than in the summer, then just gradually 'work up' the tyre ... leaning a bit more and more each time, no big jumps in angles. Unlike on the track, there is no need to rush things on the road, so you might as well do it slower rather than faster and be more sure?
I'd agree, a tyre is only scrubbed when it looks rough all over, not just coz you have done 100? miles like fitters say as run in period (what's that all about?!!? :D) ... ;)
My mate Jas pirouetted his XJR13 outside a trye shop once, trying to show off on his new tyres....oh how we laughed.
Yep, done that once about this time of year. :mad:
A brand new front and rear Conti my mate had fitted the night before and used Fairy Liquid to help it get seated on the rim. He didn't use a cloth to take off the excess tho.
I turn up in the morning and set off. Got about 30yards from his house, wait at a junction to then pull out and it spins nearly 180 and spat me off highside at 5mph in traffic. I did that daft walk/tumble/run/flailing limbs/collapse thingy too. :oops:
Turns out the gritter had been along the road 10mins earlier just to add to the slipperyness.
In shame i had to leave the bike there and knock on my mate's door. "Can you wheel my bike back, I've bust my wrist."
TIP: Use a brake cleaner aerosol to get the release compound off with a rag. Works a treat.
Flamin_Squirrel
27-10-07, 12:31 PM
So Squiggle, You've talked to Roger have you? ;)
Done Scientific tests have you? Actually tried it have you? Measured how long Scrubbing takes in the wet versus dry have you? Driven my 406 with new tyres in the wet have you?
Or are you jusy assuming it's bollox?
Tell you what, go and fit new tyres to your bike when it buckets down on Sunday and see how far over you can lean!
Oh, sorry, forgot, you're bike's bollox becasue you fell off it.. in the dry... on a track.
You must be a Tyre expert! ;)
I have fitted new tyres to my bike and ridden on them straight away in the rain and had no problem you ignorant *****.
Tyres scrub in the rain. By virtue of the fact that even new tyres have any grip at all in the rain means friction is present which scrubbing must be occuring.
Blue_SV650S
27-10-07, 02:25 PM
...
TIP: Use a brake cleaner aerosol to get the release compound off with a rag. Works a treat.
I know a few people use this trick, but I'll just say spraying solvent onto tyres probably isn't that wise!!! ;)
I think the argument is that it evaporates so quickly that it isn't like it is left swimming in it, but I think I'll just point out that manufactures probably recommend AGAINST any solvents coming into contact with the tyre ... ;)
yorkie_chris
27-10-07, 04:29 PM
If I've ever split anything on a tyre, which does happen, then I use a bit of soapy water and a brush to take the oil off, then loads more clean water and brushing to get rid of all the soap.
Perhaps excessive, but never fallen off after an ACF50-ing session so I must be doing something right.
Poor chap ... can't help but laugh though :laughat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9zNUPDmnz4
Something worth reading perhaps, especially the 'crashes after fitting' piece.....
http://cameronautotech.co.uk/tyres%20text.htm
It's worth noting that anything oil based, even ptfe, will break down rubber. Might be a tiny amount but it's worth getting off.
Whos turn is it with the arguing? Can't believe there are two going at the same time!
My trick to getting tyres scrubbed in is giving my bike to a mechanic to ride to work, get them fitted and then ride home and give it back half scrubbed in!
:D
Sorry but I couldn't resist this one. You gotta feel for him!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9zNUPDmnz4
That looks familiar ^^^ ;):)
Advice that can never be repeated enough.
Balky001
28-10-07, 11:18 AM
The last new pair of tyres I had fitted were Pirelli Diablo Corse IIIs. Just as the fitter was tightening the axle to finish the job the heavens opened, to the point I had constant streams running down and across the roads that I was riding on, which I could feel pushing on the side of the wheels.
I also had a knackered shock which was being replaced as it had no oil in (I found out later) and the fitter had neglected to push the axle to the swing arm adjustment bolts so I had a good inch of gradual movement. It was a slow 10 mile ride home but I was pleasantly surprised how much was scrubbed in (obviously a good amount wasn't) but maybe that's more to do with the tyres.
I would definately pay £10 a tyre for pre-scrubbed tyres although the seating process would still need to be observed, but it would help in wet situation.
That looks familiar ^^^ ;):)
That's very odd. Here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3BQX1Obbts
Listen to what is said at the end.
:D
-Ralph-
29-10-07, 08:36 PM
:smt021:smt070:smt097:smt068:smt014:smt067:smt013: smt116:smt094:smt065:smt093:smt064:smt075:hackedof f::smt062
Is the change of the clocks or something?
-Ralph-
29-10-07, 08:44 PM
I've always been told that it takes more miles to scrub in a tyre in the wet, but what do I know?
Berlin - I had to fit some real budget cr@p to the back of my car on holiday abroad to keep us on the road, and the rear has never been secure in the wet since (roundabouts especially). First front wheel drive car I've ever had with a slidey back end. I've even contemplated sticking them on the front to wear them out quicker, but that would be more dangerous. Federal is not exactly complete crap, but it is a budget tyre, so maybe this contributed to your hairy trip to the lakes.
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