View Full Version : Male / Female Pay Divide
gettin2dizzy
30-10-07, 04:47 PM
From the ever increasingly poor BBC
Campaigners are urging the UK government to take urgent action to close the 17% hourly pay gap between men and women in full-time work.
The Fawcett Society and trade union Unison have dubbed Tuesday Women's No Pay Day, because they say the gap in pay is equivalent to men being paid all year but women only being paid to October 30.
They are calling for greater transparency around pay and for changes to allow women to take group action so the burden is not on individuals to speak out.
Ladies and Gentlemen? (or is that Gentlemen and Ladies?) is there an unfair pay gap?
What's this got to do with my dinner? :???:
You trying to say they should stay in the kitchen?
Oi: you've ruined my fantastic joke :roll: how did you get to edit titles? Was that your mate Fizz?
Luckypants
30-10-07, 04:50 PM
Not in my profession, it seems (Computers) but I have seen this with various friends and relations. The NHS is one of the worst culprits IMHO, therefore a Labour government is perpetuating this unfair practice.
fizzwheel
30-10-07, 04:52 PM
Not in my profession, it seems (Computers)
Agreed my female colleague actually earns more than me even though she is less skilled.
gettin2dizzy
30-10-07, 04:53 PM
The 'divide' doesn't compare job like for like, but rather compares average male wages against female wages. A male and female in the same job should without doubt earn the same, but that's normal practice nowadays.
Another factor is that men on average work 7 years longer than women across their lifespan equating to an additional 7 years seniority.
gettin2dizzy
30-10-07, 04:54 PM
Agreed my female colleague actually earns more than me even though she is less skilled.
She have bigger boobs than you? May well be justified :smt045
Luckypants
30-10-07, 04:54 PM
Agreed my female colleague actually earns more than me even though she is less skilled.
But she's probably got better legs than you. :smt045
Luckypants
30-10-07, 04:55 PM
.... equating to an additional 7 years seniority.
What a quaint outdated idea.
Pedrosa
30-10-07, 04:56 PM
But females are never employed for the skills that they bring to the workplace are they? I thought their purpose was to simply brighten up the place a little?:confused:
*Lights blue touch paper and retires to safe distance*.
gettin2dizzy
30-10-07, 04:58 PM
What a quaint outdated idea.
I was presenting the argument rather than supporting it ;)
Luckypants
30-10-07, 05:05 PM
Well if it is taking averages, then it is complete rubbish. For a given job, men and women should be paid broadly the same, with performance related differences. If a woman is good at her job, she should be paid accordingly.
It is a fact that low paid jobs are dominated by women and thus the 'average' pay for women will be lower than men. I'm not sure there is much that one can do about that, just try to encourage women to apply for higher paid jobs.
fizzwheel
30-10-07, 05:08 PM
But she's probably got better legs than you. :smt045
What do girls normally look like that work in I.T. ever met a fit one...
No didnt think so :p
What do girls normally look like that work in I.T. ever met a fit one...
No didnt think so :p
I'm cut to the quick.... :smt088 as would be the other two women working here (web designer and programmer)...
:smt088:smt088 We ming... *reaches a new height of wailing* :smt088:smt088
:lol:
Yeah, but internet work isn't real programming. :D
Yeah, but internet work isn't real programming. :D
:eek: Harsh!............................................ ........ but fair... :lol:
:D
Luckypants
30-10-07, 05:33 PM
What do girls normally look like that work in I.T. ever met a fit one...
No didnt think so :p
Yes I have, but she is pants at her job.......
EDIT: Present company excepted of course!
Well if it is taking averages, then it is complete rubbish. For a given job, men and women should be paid broadly the same, with performance related differences. If a woman is good at her job, she should be paid accordingly.
I am on the top pay grade at work. There are guys who get paid a lower grade than I do, but they are not as skilled as I am. Seems fair to me:D
But females are never employed for the skills that they bring to the workplace are they? I thought their purpose was to simply brighten up the place a little?
......and make the tea, of course. (A bit of hoovering is a bonus)
But females are never employed for the skills that they bring to the workplace are they? I thought their purpose was to simply brighten up the place a little?:confused:
Not me. I just scare the sh*t out of everyone:smt077
Biker Biggles
30-10-07, 06:05 PM
I think some of you blokes who are stuck in the dark ages need to wise up.
Women are entitled to be properly paid for brightening up the workplace and keeping the men "interested".
:makelurve::smt056[-X:rolleyes:
Welsh_Wizard
30-10-07, 06:08 PM
But females are never employed for the skills that they bring to the workplace are they? I thought their purpose was to simply brighten up the place a little?:confused:
*Lights blue touch paper and retires to safe distance*.
110% to that man there.. :D
Flamin_Squirrel
30-10-07, 06:21 PM
One of the reasons for a pay difference between men and women is very simple, obvious when you think about it, but rather difficult to solve.
It's illustrated perfectly in the anicdote about a man being very afraid asking a woman what's the matter and getting the response 'nothing'.
A woman with a substandard pay grade is likely to sulk or complain to her friends, a man is likely to complain to his boss.
Ceri JC
31-10-07, 12:51 PM
I remember reading an (unintentionally) rather amusing article that suggested women who took a few years off to raise their kids shouldn't come back to work on the same grade, but a higher one to account for the "new skills" they had learnt through motherhood. Now, I've never been a mother, but I fail to see how in IT, looking after sprogs for 4 years should allow you to come back in at the same grade (as all the software you use has changed, not to mention you'll of forgotten a lot of the more subtle nuances of the job and hence will be less fit to do the job than when you left), never mind a higher one. If two people are doing the same job, to the same standard, have the same experience and qualifications, they should be paid the same, regardless of their gender. If women take time off to have children, they shouldn't be punished for it, but it certainly shouldn't be rewarded, IMO.
As I hope the above clarifies; I think women are entitled to the same pay if they do the same job. I do not approve of schemes designed to "close the gap" in cases where the gap exists for good reason. I worked as a gardener before and we had two women who worked with us. Both absolutely useless at the job, through no fault of their own. Their knowledge of plants etc. was no better than the men's but they simply lacked the physical strength/stamina to do more than a 1/3 of the work the men could do (a large part of the job was lugging bags of compost around, digging, etc.). They were paid exactly the same as the men, despite combined being less effective than one man. PC gone mad, in this case, at the taxpayer's expense.
Welsh_Wizard
31-10-07, 01:37 PM
I remember reading an (unintentionally) rather amusing article that suggested women who took a few years off to raise their kids shouldn't come back to work on the same grade, but a higher one to account for the "new skills" they had learnt through motherhood. Now, I've never been a mother, but I fail to see how in IT, looking after sprogs for 4 years should allow you to come back in at the same grade (as all the software you use has changed, not to mention you'll of forgotten a lot of the more subtle nuances of the job and hence will be less fit to do the job than when you left), never mind a higher one. If two people are doing the same job, to the same standard, have the same experience and qualifications, they should be paid the same, regardless of their gender. If women take time off to have children, they shouldn't be punished for it, but it certainly shouldn't be rewarded, IMO.
As I hope the above clarifies; I think women are entitled to the same pay if they do the same job. I do not approve of schemes designed to "close the gap" in cases where the gap exists for good reason. I worked as a gardener before and we had two women who worked with us. Both absolutely useless at the job, through no fault of their own. Their knowledge of plants etc. was no better than the men's but they simply lacked the physical strength/stamina to do more than a 1/3 of the work the men could do (a large part of the job was lugging bags of compost around, digging, etc.). They were paid exactly the same as the men, despite combined being less effective than one man. PC gone mad, in this case, at the taxpayer's expense.
I blame your boss for not 'redeploying' them to the kettle in fairness :smt045
gettin2dizzy
31-10-07, 02:06 PM
I remember reading an (unintentionally) rather amusing article that suggested women who took a few years off to raise their kids shouldn't come back to work on the same grade, but a higher one to account for the "new skills" they had learnt through motherhood. Now, I've never been a mother, but I fail to see how in IT, looking after sprogs for 4 years should allow you to come back in at the same grade (as all the software you use has changed, not to mention you'll of forgotten a lot of the more subtle nuances of the job and hence will be less fit to do the job than when you left), never mind a higher one. If two people are doing the same job, to the same standard, have the same experience and qualifications, they should be paid the same, regardless of their gender. If women take time off to have children, they shouldn't be punished for it, but it certainly shouldn't be rewarded, IMO.
As I hope the above clarifies; I think women are entitled to the same pay if they do the same job. I do not approve of schemes designed to "close the gap" in cases where the gap exists for good reason. I worked as a gardener before and we had two women who worked with us. Both absolutely useless at the job, through no fault of their own. Their knowledge of plants etc. was no better than the men's but they simply lacked the physical strength/stamina to do more than a 1/3 of the work the men could do (a large part of the job was lugging bags of compost around, digging, etc.). They were paid exactly the same as the men, despite combined being less effective than one man. PC gone mad, in this case, at the taxpayer's expense.
:smt045
Apparently the seven year gap relates to time taken off for maternity leave. Women who put on deep voices, look like 12 year old boys and scream sexism at anything they don't like (whilst flirting their way to the top) are always more than happy to preach about the burden of having children.
Yeah, we won on that front. Thank god for that though! The idea of going through childbirth myself would render me a gibbering wreck; and if all men were gibbering wrecks (which they would be) then not a lot of conceiving would ever be likely to happen. - Unless of course your Hugh Grant and make a living out of it, yet the only action he gets it's probably solo on the sofa watching About A Boy; which is always on TV, before he sits back thinking about his "great performance".
So having established that women having children is the better way, as decided when we were sculpted from soil....by Darwin; it's an unavoidable technicality. End of. Seven years would equate to maternity leave for 14 children, which doesn't to me sound like the average number of children in a household, except in Essex maybe but not UK wide. So the only conclusion that can be drawn from that is that women leave work to look after their children, which in my book is a very commendable decision. Why not? work is merely a vehicle to fuel your life. Bringing a child in to the world IS your life so why not enjoy it. Men on average get 13 times less leave on birth of a child (and one in twenty isn't the father, but I'm digressing to essex again).
Men have to go to work during the day, put up with being kept awake at night with a sulking wife whilst we are not - under any circumstances - allowed to complain. And then the 'magic' of having a child is only noticed in how magically your bank account can drain. Men could leave work to look after a child -and any man would love to do this but there is no provision for it. The average paternity leave is 2 weeks, after that your handing your notice in. Men should be in uproar about the inequality, the only desicion making made here is the mother telling the father she's decided to stay at home.
Women who scream, shout, get boys haircuts and suits only shout about this as they're the one group of women unlikely to have children and realise that really they've got it better. We get two weeks, unless of course your name is Gordon Brown.
gettin2dizzy
31-10-07, 03:34 PM
Oooh, that was a ramble, sorry!
Oooh, that was a very long rant, sorry!
:rolleyes:
gettin2dizzy
31-10-07, 04:44 PM
:rolleyes:
I couldn't even be bothered to read through it.
summary:
yeah but no but.
I couldn't even be bothered to read through it.
summary:
yeah but no but.
It was quite amusing.
I don't really have strong feelings on this matter so it's interesting to read what others think.
gettin2dizzy
31-10-07, 04:52 PM
Me neither. But wanting to avoid work gives me all kinds of opinions :)
Me neither. But wanting to avoid work gives me all kinds of opinions :)
I know the feeling.
Pedrosa
31-10-07, 05:03 PM
I just don't know where the gratitude went with all of these females.:rolleyes: We men release them from their light tasks around the house in order to see them broaden their horizons by mixing with others in a work environment, and what do we get in return?
Claims for equality of pay scales and rights etc. Where has it all gone wrong I ask you? And then some of these cheeky minx's pull a stroppy face when trying to catch up with the homely duties after faffing around in a working environment for the best part of the day achieving nothing!
Their misplaced lack of contentment with their lot is often displayed by refusing to pass the remote,simply because she is ironing a thing or two whilst dusting using her butt.
Their is just no gratitude in the world today.Pah!
gettin2dizzy
31-10-07, 05:05 PM
(Ask any women who's held down a decent job - they all say that bringing up a baby is so much easier)
Pedrosa
31-10-07, 05:07 PM
(Ask any women who's held down a decent job - they all say that bringing up a baby is so much easier)
But they would say that wouldn't they? All an attempt to impress upon us how much they put in to their filing clerk role.:rolleyes:
kwak zzr
31-10-07, 05:21 PM
my wife has try'd 2 jobs in the last month but has now decided to just stay at home, i dont mind because it means i do less.
kwak zzr
31-10-07, 05:22 PM
at the PO wages are the same for men and women.
Spanner Man
31-10-07, 05:48 PM
Evening all.
You blokes who work with women who actually do any work are lucky if you ask me!
I have 2 girls here with me full time, they don't make the tea, answer the phone, or do any of the number crunching! All they do is lounge around all day messing up my office, & nicking my lunch!
And what's more, they're a right couple of Dogs!
Cheers.
timwilky
01-11-07, 12:13 AM
Evening all.
You blokes who work with women who actually do any work are lucky if you ask me!
I have 2 girls here with me full time, they don't make the tea, answer the phone, or do any of the number crunching! All they do is lounge around all day messing up my office, & nicking my lunch!
And what's more, they're a right couple of Dogs!
Cheers.
sound like a right pair of bitches
SVeeedy Gonzales
02-11-07, 06:27 PM
Some women I work with get paid more than me, some less. One guy I work with is nearing retirement and knows loads and is on less than I was on aged 22. A friend down the road earns nigh on £500 as an NHS consultant (consultant on cutting costs, of all things) though she doesn't do every day, that would be greedy. My sister earns loads more than me and is 1 year older.
I think it's generally pretty even now.
In my job the females earn as much as us but most expect to be able wit hgeting away with doing less!! they batter their eyelids and think its all ok.
P's me righ off paid the same get on and do it the same.
Like when a female falls behind on a weighted run, me no sympathy, get on with it!! they take the queens shilling as well so if they cant do it then get out!
Pedrosa
03-11-07, 12:41 PM
In my job the females earn as much as us but most expect to be able wit hgeting away with doing less!! they batter their eyelids and think its all ok.
P's me righ off paid the same get on and do it the same.
Like when a female falls behind on a weighted run, me no sympathy, get on with it!! they take the queens shilling as well so if they cant do it then get out!
Like their not all like GI Jane then? I am dissapointed as a rather vulgar fantasy has been destroyed!:rolleyes:
Luckypants
03-11-07, 04:27 PM
In my job the females earn as much as us but most expect to be able wit hgeting away with doing less!! they batter their eyelids and think its all ok.
P's me righ off paid the same get on and do it the same.
Like when a female falls behind on a weighted run, me no sympathy, get on with it!! they take the queens shilling as well so if they cant do it then get out!
Agree with the sentiment. In all things, equal pay for equal work. End of.
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