Are ghosts real? -Genuine evidence from a sceptic

[_drummer_]

I found this while searching for evidence for ghosts, you have to look pretty hard & have the sound up to hear the weird stuff going on in the background. If you have a heart condition don't watch this, but if you're interested in genuine evidence for ghosts (& believe me, I was sceptical until I saw it) watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEc_v4Hk5Bw

Spooky stuff. :reaper:

It's probably better if you don't post replies to let people make their own mind up, but I found it hard to believe what I was seeing.

[Mogs]

I'm not going to comment on the clip, But i can offer and Eyewitness account I was more than sceptical, I was totally disbelieving until we moved to the house we now have.

From our kitchen one can see through the kitchen door onto the drive and out the window into the conservatory and its door into the garden. Both are frosted glass. We regularly see a human shadow pass the kitchen door at walking pace then see the same shadow pass the conservatory door. What makes it unexplainable is the locked garden gate between the two.

This summer all four of us were eating lunch on the patio when we all clearly heard a footstep on the steel mat outside the conservatory door making us all instantly look. The only way anyone could step on it is through locked house, save the conservatory door, through the locked gate or past us. Being rational I decide a bird must have dropped something onto it, so I drop tiny stones onto the mat just to check. The only way I can replicate the chink and grind sound is to put my foot and 16 stone weight on the mat.

[G]

I felt loads of odd stuff at my mum and dads place on the south coast.

I once woke up to see a man dressed in army gear holding his hat to his chest looking out my window....I went under the covers and came back up and he was still there.

I used to hear footsteps of a womn in high heels coming up the driveway, into the hall, up the stairs and then along the hallway upstair......no explanation for it.

Very strange I know....I'm still a sceptic and cant see how ghosts can be possible.

[pencil shavings]

ive seen the clip before, very inlightening.

ive once had a brush with somthing i can only describe as a ghost. im not the type of guy who is easily scared or believes in these type of supernatural thingys. its a very long story but working nights as a security guard you see alot of odd goings on. there was one night when it suddenly clicked that at dawn i can hear birds, but none are actually on the grounds, they stay on the other side of the fence. that was a scary realisation.
anyway, i had to quit the job, things were just too much! lol

*EDIT*

ok, my post dosent really make any sence, ill write it out properly when i get back from lectures!

[Viney]

I have seen 2 ghosts. Or what i suppose you would describe as ghosts. One was a sort of hazy white mist type thing, the other was definitly a shape of an old lady.
Make you go cold when you see this kind of thing.

[Grinch]

NO.

I have spoken and that is all.

[neio79]

In a way I hope there are such things as ghosts as it kind of proves there is something after death!

[Kate Moss]

I am a complete believer. i lived with my parents in a house for 7 years, and throughout the entire time there i was complaining to my parents about the odd goings on.
i was the only one that seemed to be effected. Lots and lots of things happend to me there,
for example - waking up one night i had to pee so went to the bathroom, to come back and find both my wardrobe doors open(the floor was level and the doors had to be pulled open), i would put a mug on the window cill, go out of the room and when i came back it would be on the opposite side of the room. Lights would switch on and off by them selves.
I also had a lot of sleep walking experiences - my sister would find me leaning over the banister at the top of the stairs just staring into the darkness and also i would hang a t-shirt out the back window(2nd floor) trying to turn the security light on - my mum would find clothes in the garden and the window opn in the morning!! I would wake up in the night and completely strip my bed, wrap myself in all the sheets and just stand staring out the window!
It all came to a head when i woke up one night and saw a little girl in a white dress walk out of my room onto the landing, i told my mum but she found it hard to understand. On the day we moved out - our neighbour said that she was glad we were moving - my mum asked why and she said because a little girl killed herself in that house and there have been strange happenings ever since.

I can often feel another presence and i truely believe that ghosts are real. In our new house I woke up one night and instantly felt the precense of my nan (dads mum) who died when i was 1, so never knew her. i didn't feel afraid though - i told my parents the next day - which just happend to be the day it was announced my dad was awarded an MBE. i reckon she came to be with us and share the good news.

[kwak zzr]

ever wondered why all the going's on happen at night? cus your half asleep and still in sleepy sleepy land.

[kwak zzr]

well this is what my mate reckons and he's a logical thinker according to him. (i dunno:))

[Kate Moss]

ever wondered why all the going's on happen at night? cus your half asleep and still in sleepy sleepy land.

things like mugs flying out of cupboards and being moved across the room happened during the day! There is a reason why ghosts activity is highter during the darkness - i forget why though!

[Welsh_Wizard]

Ghosts DO NOT exist.


i was the only one that seemed to be effected.

..there is all the proof you need ;)

More likely to be overactive area's of your brain that you don't normally use rather than some sort of spectral wonderment.

[Kate Moss]

it is a well known fact that teenage girls are often more effected by things such as paranormal as this is when senses are most sensitive and likely to pick up on things.

[Grinch]

I'm not sure its a fact...

[DanDare]

I've seen a Ghost! It was crap. Patrick Swayze was rubbish!

[Kate Moss]

I'm not sure its a fact...

its absolute!!! I think!!

[carlos]

B*****d! I had a filling done this morning and have only just been allowed to have a hot drink. I am now wearing my coffee all over my lap:smt012

[gettin2dizzy]

hahahahaha!

[Kate Moss]

B*****d! I had a filling done this morning and have only just been allowed to have a hot drink. I am now wearing my coffee all over my lap:smt012

:offtopic:

[gettin2dizzy]

I can often feel another presence and i truely believe that ghosts are real. .
is it a prodding in your back in the middle of the night? :rolleyes:

[Kate Moss]

is it a prodding in your back in the middle of the night? :rolleyes:


:oops: well lastnight yeah!



but i mean a spiritual presence!

[the_lone_wolf]

but i mean a spiritual presence!
just in time for christmas too:smt023

santa's real too you know, i heard a noise on christmas eve so it must have been him:bigsmurf:*




*santa is blue because he is cold, from all that superlightspeed flying...

[Kate Moss]

just in time for christmas too:smt023

santa's real too you know, i heard a noise on christmas eve so it must have been him:bigsmurf:*




*santa is blue because he is cold, from all that superlightspeed flying...

i know santa is real cuz the mince pies i leave out for him are always gone by the morning

[kwak zzr]

is it a prodding in your back in the middle of the night? :rolleyes:

coffee all over my keyboard now:smt044

[Tomcat]

is it a prodding in your back in the middle of the night? :rolleyes:

I often get that ...... I must be special !
;)

[Kate Moss]

I often get that ...... I must be special !
;)

i dont experience it often but its worth waiting for!!!

[ooger]

Coincidentally.

We had 2 dudes from Spiritworld UK (dot com) come round to where I work the other day.

They've been researching a spirit at the local pub and have traced a link to here through a doctors practice that used to exist in this building a hundred years ago. They want to come in and stay overnight to film and record the presence of a negative female spirit dwelling on the stairwell.

Turns out someone died falling down the stairs in here a long time ago.....

wooooooo.

[Jester666]

No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no!!

Not real, don't exist etc.

I rest my case.

[Ping]

No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no!!

Not real, don't exist etc.

I rest my case.
And I assume you can back that claim up with undeniable proof?...

:D

[Spiderman]

Hmmm, i'd always been unsure about this until i started seeing a girl who's place was haunted. She lived at home with her mum and dad & 2 brothers at the time.
They all knew about the ghost and had grown up with him in the house and he'd never bothered them...just gone about his business of walking about upstairs when everyone else was downstairs.

Then i stayed over for a night or 2 while she had the house to herself and got to winess/experience it for myself.

now i KNOW that they do exist. Not all ghosts are "nasty" or "evil" and like mrs24_7 said most poltergiests like to hang out with or latch onto pre-pubescent girs if there is one in the family. Its almost like they never stopped or accepted they dont live anymore and stay on this plane instead of passing over to the other side and resting themselves for whatever comes after that.

I could tell you loads of things about that ghost but i wont bore you.

[Ed]

When we lived in Saltash I used to see an elderly lady on the stairs of our house. She was always looking upwards. So I thought there must be something up in the loft. I discoverd her beautiful silver cutlery, milk jug, and salt and pepper pots. The previous owners had lived there for 15 years and had never found them. It was obvious that the elderly lady - who had died in the house - wanted us to have them.

And then last year, about March it was, I saw Anne's dad in my old office. He was standing there, smiling at me - and then he simply disappeared. Nothing exceptional about that, save for the fact that he died 6 years ago.

All this was in broad daylight, and I hadn't touched a drop.

[sinbad]

Nope, not real.

How bizarre would it be if they were real, but for some reason were doing an absolutely incredible job at keeping it a secret to the point where it never moves past "myth". I mean come on, if you've seen enough to believe it as fact, why on earth aren't you the first person in the world to collect and document this irrefutable evidence? You'd be famous, and you'd be believed. You have a ghost in your house that "performs" nightly, you make some kind of record of that!

[gettin2dizzy]

...You're not all being serious are you?...

[cuffy]

Not a ghost i saw but just as wierd,
Was asleep about years ago, warm summers night, very still and muggy and the window was open, next thing curtains came flying inwards, knocked the alarm clock off the window, didnt think much of it and went back to sleep, few hours later had a call off my dad saying that our grandad had died at 5:30am....looked at my alarm clock and it was at 5:30 when the curtains flew open and the clock stopped, probably coincedence but all a bit close for my liking :D

[Spiderman]

Nope, not real.

How bizarre would it be if they were real, but for some reason were doing an absolutely incredible job at keeping it a secret to the point where it never moves past "myth". I mean come on, if you've seen enough to believe it as fact, why on earth aren't you the first person in the world to collect and document this irrefutable evidence? You'd be famous, and you'd be believed. You have a ghost in your house that "performs" nightly, you make some kind of record of that!

I guess its one of those things that you know no one will believe unless they experience it for themselves.

Would you belive a tape recording of footsteps really came from upstairs or would you just say "you recorded that somewhere else"
And also most of these things happen when you aint expecting them not when you're wandering about with a camcorder waiting ofr a You've Been Framed moment to happen.

Loads of TV programs that show these things yet they all get laughed at for being "set ups" I saw an episode once where the cameraman had been scratched by something. yet he was holding his camera and couldnt have done it himself. Also he was wearing 2 or 3 layers and they were all tucked in to his jeans. The other cameraman filmed his shirts being lifted to show 3 or 4 deep scratches that had drawn blood that was still fresh on his t-shirt. Everone in the room freaked and said "thats it!!! thats what it does to all of us"
Yet you didnt see that as the lead for the 10 o'clock news. "Ghosts are real, heres the proof"
there will always be doubters of te best evidence.

Look at how many people still belive that the twin towers really did fall becase of the planes that hit them.
Even tho the Empire state building was hit by a B52 bomber many years before and didnt fall over or implode.
One of the bomber's engines completely penetrated the Empire State Building, and fell from the opposite side. The other engine flew into an elevator shaft and severed the cable of an elevator car carrying two women, sending it into free fall.
More here (http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=179)

[gettin2dizzy]

But it is nonsense, only people who believe in it experience it because they allow themselves to believe. There's as much proof as the tooth fairy existing. If they did exist why do they spend their life aimlessly moving cups around?!


also... do you get animal ghosts? why aren't we overun by them? If they communicate why can't they tell us something interesting about the past? why can't they be proved? Why is it that people who strongly argue their case are the ones that make money out of them?..

[DanDare]

Even tho the Empire state building was hit by a B52 bomber many years before and didnt fall over or implode.


:shock::shock::shock:

http://sill-www.army.mil/Graphics/aircraft/b52.jpg

[gettin2dizzy]

They're massive! I've seen one in a hangar, there must have been a foot of space between the wing tips and the wall!

[sinbad]

I guess its one of those things that you know no one will believe unless they experience it for themselves.

Would you belive a tape recording of footsteps really came from upstairs or would you just say "you recorded that somewhere else"
And also most of these things happen when you aint expecting them not when you're wandering about with a camcorder waiting ofr a You've Been Framed moment to happen.

Loads of TV programs that show these things yet they all get laughed at for being "set ups" I saw an episode once where the cameraman had been scratched by something. yet he was holding his camera and couldnt have done it himself. Also he was wearing 2 or 3 layers and they were all tucked in to his jeans. The other cameraman filmed his shirts being lifted to show 3 or 4 deep scratches that had drawn blood that was still fresh on his t-shirt. Everone in the room freaked and said "thats it!!! thats what it does to all of us"
Yet you didnt see that as the lead for the 10 o'clock news. "Ghosts are real, heres the proof"
there will always be doubters of te best evidence.

Look at how many people still belive that the twin towers really did fall becase of the planes that hit them.
Even tho the Empire state building was hit by a B52 bomber many years before and didnt fall over or implode.
One of the bomber's engines completely penetrated the Empire State Building, and fell from the opposite side. The other engine flew into an elevator shaft and severed the cable of an elevator car carrying two women, sending it into free fall.
More here (http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=179)

"The best evidence" is not some show like Derek McCormack's exploitative farce, or any of the ones which promise to show you something spooky and would be disappointing if they failed to deliver.

I think it's also odd that you would form an opinion based on a story of a different plane, obviously a B25 not the MUCH larger 52 (and which I doubt was carrying 10,000 gallons of jet fuel btw, although I stand to be corrected) hitting a different building and then use that as a point of argument, suggesting that non-believers are simply naive. The theory that the WTC was brought down by controlled explosives has been rejected by scientists, principally of the National Institute of Standards and Technology. I believe there is an element of going against the grain which makes conspiracy theories so exciting, and possibly that applies to ghosts as well. I'm not saying believe what you're told and not what you see, I'm just saying believe what you believe because there is evidence to back it, not because there is none to discount it.

[neio79]

Look at how many people still belive that the twin towers really did fall becase of the planes that hit them.



Wow, maybe because that is what happened and all the evidence is there to support it as well. I have no doubt that he USA is a courupt place and would have loved an excuse to go after Sadam and all the other terror nations., but to murder so many of its own citizens??

I bet you belive that the Pentagon was hit by a cruise missile as well.

[philipMac]

Unfortunately I saw a ghost.
I mean, I have to say "unfortunately" cause I am a research scientist like.
It was very uneventful, and very not scary.
I just thought it was a guy, maybe robbing stuff.
I was a mechanic in a bike shop, and our workshop was below ground level, on one end it butted out onto the Liffey, and on the other, it ran out into these very old tunnels under Dublin inner city.

We opened up, 8 am, I walked down the stairs, and saw a guy simply leaving the workshop, walking away from the Liffey, towards where the bikes are stored. Not hurrying, not looking at me, just leaving. Through an open door. ;)
So, walk back up the stairs (I was only half way down) I shout back to the lads at the back of the shop, and they drop into the basement from the very end of the shop.
I pick up a hammer, and follow your man. Nothing. He was just gone. I completely didnt believe this, I checked to see if there was any way he could escape, nothing. We had a load of money just sitting in a box down there, nothing was touched. There was no robbery.

It was really odd.
Then the guys all said, oh yeah, its the ghost.
Your turn to get the coffees in.
No one was even slightly perturbed. They had all seen exactly the same thing, none of them had told me about it though.
So... yeah.
There you have it.



I got the coffees in.

edit...
just, if anyone is interested, I dont believe that they are actually dead people though. I dont believe in life after death.
I think what I saw is something to do with a live person. In some way people can communicate in a special way sometimes.
I think this communication can be "a bad feeling" or, that it can sort of imprint something straight into your head, which your brain renders as "seeing".
To clarify, I dont believe that there was anything there that I saw. I believe that what I saw was the result of some other person's thoughts, a person who is alive.

Or something.
This just seems to be the most parsimonious explanation.
Well. Me hallucinating alone would be more parsimonious, but the fact that *everyone* else saw the same thing scuppers that one a bit.

[sinbad]

Unfortunately I saw a ghost.
I mean, I have to say "unfortunately" cause I am a research scientist like.
It was very uneventful, and very not scary.
I just thought it was a guy, maybe robbing stuff.
I was a mechanic in a bike shop, and our workshop was below ground level, on one end it butted out onto the Liffey, and on the other, it ran out into these very old tunnels under Dublin inner city.

We opened up, 8 am, I walked down the stairs, and saw a guy simply leaving the workshop, walking away from the Liffey, towards where the bikes are stored. Not hurrying, not looking at me, just leaving. Through an open door. ;)
So, walk back up the stairs (I was only half way down) I shout back to the lads at the back of the shop, and they drop into the basement from the very end of the shop.
I pick up a hammer, and follow your man. Nothing. He was just gone. I completely didnt believe this, I checked to see if there was any way he could escape, nothing. We had a load of money just sitting in a box down there, nothing was touched. There was no robbery.

It was really odd.
Then the guys all said, oh yeah, its the ghost.
Your turn to get the coffees in.
No one was even slightly perturbed. They had all seen exactly the same thing, none of them had told me about it though.
So... yeah.
There you have it.



I got the coffees in.

edit...
just, if anyone is interested, I dont believe that they are actually dead people though. I dont believe in life after death.
I think what I saw is something to do with a live person. In some way people can communicate in a special way sometimes.
I think this communication can be "a bad feeling" or, that it can sort of imprint something straight into your head, which your brain renders as "seeing".
To clarify, I dont believe that there was anything there that I saw. I believe that what I saw was the result of some other person's thoughts, a person who is alive.

Or something.
This just seems to be the most parsimonious explanation.
Well. Me hallucinating alone would be more parsimonious, but the fact that *everyone* else saw the same thing scuppers that one a bit.

Yet another frequently seen, but not frequently enough to be worthy of documenting, "ghost"? Or maybe the lads were playing a trick on you.

[kwak zzr]

any of you that have been to tywyn will know the chip shop/ gift shop on the corner as you drive onto the seafront from the aberdovey end, well my nan worked there for years and years ago it used to be a chippy/cafe with seating inside, she lived in that building in the attic room because she was friendly with the owner and she always told me that she had a sea captain ghost come into that room and talk to her on regular occasions. she was my nan why would she lie? in the summer gone me and cuz went to tywyn and went to this very chippy for lunch and i got talking to the lady's that worked there, i told them of my nan who about 20 years ago used to work and live in the cafe, when i mentioned the attic room they just looked at each other and said "we dont go up there":)

[philipMac]

Yet another frequently seen, but not frequently enough to be worthy of documenting, "ghost"? Or maybe the lads were playing a trick on you.

I dont know about documentation. None of the lads were bothered, anxious or
anything. It was no more interesting that the gossip that morning.
I wasnt scared, I was just "huh... odd".
They werent trying to scare me, they werent really interested once they knew
it was just "the ghost" and not some thief. There was no wind up, and no one
ever mentioned it before or again. I personally never saw it again.
As soon as they realised it was just the ghost, everyone was relieved actually.
I know about wind ups, we used to do that sort of thing. But, this wasnt a wind up.

I might of brought it up once in conversation, but I think they just sort of
shrugged, nothing to tell really. " Oh yeah. The ghost. I dunno. How do you think the
rugby against Wales will go on Saturday?"

It was completely harmless apparently. It was as exciting as weather to them.

[Spiderman]

I think it's also odd that you would form an opinion based on a story of a different plane, obviously a B25 not the MUCH larger 52 (and which I doubt was carrying 10,000 gallons of jet fuel btw, although I stand to be corrected) hitting a different building and then use that as a point of argument, suggesting that non-believers are simply naive. The theory that the WTC was brought down by controlled explosives has been rejected by scientists, principally of the National Institute of Standards and Technology. I believe there is an element of going against the grain which makes conspiracy theories so exciting, and possibly that applies to ghosts as well. I'm not saying believe what you're told and not what you see, I'm just saying believe what you believe because there is evidence to back it, not because there is none to discount it.
Ok, MY MISTAKE!!! lol, It honestly was a typo!!! I didnt for one second mean to imply a B52, i wouldnt have posted the link if i was trying to wind you up or lie now would i?

So, my bad. Sorry, wrists thouroughly slapped.

But i do think you'll find that National Institute of Standards and Technology did also say their explanation only covered the fall of the floors above the impact sites and they had no explanation to offer for the virtual freefall of the floors below that seemed to offer no resistance whether laterally across the floors or upwards thru the intact support colums. But we digress. Do a search for 9/11 or twn towers as we had a really good thread about this a while ago ... if youre interested that is.


Wow, maybe because that is what happened and all the evidence is there to support it as well. I have no doubt that he USA is a courupt place and would have loved an excuse to go after Sadam and all the other terror nations., but to murder so many of its own citizens??

I bet you belive that the Pentagon was hit by a cruise missile as well.

But would any of us have believed that the CIA really put LSD into the water supply of an entire town without their knowledge and denied it ll cos they were trying to create a truth serum....until the awful truth cam out many years later and the FBI had to publicly admit it? A few peeps died during that too, ok not 3000 odd but it wasnt designed to create public outrage, just one of their own secret "sit back and see what happens" operations.

I KNOW the Pentagon was hit by something moving very fast that left a small hole on the outside wall BUT i like you have never seen any film of a PLANE or anything more than a blur hitting the building. I am asked to believe it was a plane cos thats what the authorities have told me. Until i see some proof i'm open minded, thats all.

I dont know about documentation. None of the lads were bothered, anxious or
anything. It was no more interesting that the gossip that morning.
....
It was completely harmless apparently. It was as exciting as weather to them.

My situation was exactly like Phils too. Her whole family had never told me about it even tho i'd been there loads of times and when i told them i'd met their ghost they were all "Oh really? Nice for you welcome to the club...thats about as itnteresting as it gets by the way"

I asked a load of question but they'd lived with it for so long that my questions were clearly things they'd been asked hundresd of times before by the many friends who'd stayed over (no she wasnt the local bike, she had 3 older & 1 younger bro who were all party animals and DJs etc so had a really hectic house with plenty of people staying over) and it was just so un-iteresting to them to even talk about it.
No, its never tried to freak any of us out.
No, there have never been rivers of blood flowing down the walls.
No, its never tried to levitate me out the window.
No, its not evil. We not to any of us anyway ;)
Yes it does use the phone and TV cannels to communicate sometimes but thats gets really old really quick.

That was the main jist of their interest.

[philipMac]

Hi Spidey.
Long time no see and all that.
You're a moderator now I see?
I say old chap.

How about them ghosts?
Its some mystery eh!

We beat Wales too in the rugger. As far as I remember.
I never take any pleasure in beating Wales though.


Edit... oh yeah. The point of my post.
"Yes it does use the phone and TV cannels to communicate sometimes but thats gets really old really quick."

Yaysus.
Does that mean it says stuff through the TV?
That would be new underpants time for me.
That would be new trousers time for me in fact.

[neio79]

I KNOW the Pentagon was hit by something moving very fast that left a small hole on the outside wall BUT i like you have never seen any film of a PLANE or anything more than a blur hitting the building. I am asked to believe it was a plane cos thats what the authorities have told me. Until i see some proof i'm open minded, thats all.

.

A missile could not do that much dammage nor could it cause the pattern of destruction.

oh and where is the plane then, you know the one that did not hit the pentagon??

[metalmonkey]

A few years ago I did pliot TV show about ghost hunting, one of many jobs lol!

Anyway we went to film in a pub in Holborn, can't remeber the name of it.....

Well this pub has some old victorain jail/lock up thing in it, it is belived some people were murdered there too or something just as gruesome!

Down in the beer cellar where this old cells, and I was told you stand in there you can feel a presence it makes you want to move go away from it, whcih I though was total ********, ghost don't exist right? The night was little uneventful. The guys though they saw stuff, I think one or 2 things were filmed.

With the filming over I went into the beer cellear to retive the camera gear, being me, I went into the jail and said it was a load of bollacks, what you are going to do me? Well nothing happened, but all of a sudden I felt something pushing all my body hrad to explain it just felt wrong!

It felt like there was something in there with me, it got cold and got more and more werid. I was like f*** this and legged it! Well that was my only encounter.....was it real I don't know but it freaked me out enough. Was it my head may be, will never know.

[Richie]

I still believe that Ghosts are just echos from the past.

[sinbad]

The other thing I find weird, is that humans are the only beings to become ghosts (well except family pets naturally). Is it because we're so up ourselves that we only believe humans are worthy of enjoying the life after death trip, or maybe we believe we can't see other animal's ghosts? If it's the latter thank god, there'd be a bloody million insect ghosts all over me - but maybe they are all over me and I can't see them, where's McCormack when you need him? "uurrgh he says bzzzzzzzzzz, does that mean anything to you?" "Yeaaaaah, wow, last week I was almost stung by a bee" "Urrgh it's the bee communicating with you, he says bzzzz sorry, I was juzzzt protecting the hive mate" "Ahhhh thanks Derek!".

[kwak zzr]

i think i just saw a ghost koi carp swim past my window:)

[sinbad]

i think i just saw a ghost koi carp swim past my window:)

HAHA! :D Genuinely laughed out loud at that and I don't do that very often when I read something. :)

[kwak zzr]

what you say it true tho mate, makes ya think dont it:) i dont know if i believe or not because i've never witnessed anything ghostly.

[DarrenSV650S]

I started to watch the clip, and just as the info came at the start I paused it and thought "this is one of those loud annoying things to make you jump" so I went to look at everyones replys but they seemed to be about ghosts and not some annoying clip. So I started watching it again thinking "which screen am I sposed to be looking at" and then the thing jamp out, but I didn't get a fright!!!

[kwak zzr]

annoying arnt they.

[_drummer_]

:D Maybe I'm more gullible, but I hadn't seen it before, had my nose up to the screen with the volume up at 4am & I shat myslef lol I thought it might catch a few gullible fools such as myself.
This is all actually quite an interesting read, I am sceptical but open minded.

[kwak zzr]

it didnt scare me, my wifes got black teeth like the ghost that pops up so im used to it:)

[philipMac]

The other thing I find weird, is that humans are the only beings to become ghosts (well except family pets naturally). Is it because we're so up ourselves that we only believe humans are worthy of enjoying the life after death trip, or maybe we believe we can't see other animal's ghosts?


Em. So... I am not really a believer. I sort of dont really believe what I saw even.
I dunno. Anyway, if I was to argue for ghosts, I would say that if I saw one... emm, so, if I did, my brain could not tell it from anyone on the street.
In fact, the only way I knew that it wasn't some normal guy was because he vanished.
It might have even been a normal guy, ( I sort of wanted it to be because that involves less thinking ). He might have somehow gotten in, not robbed anything, even the money, and then... got out. Somehow.
It seemed fairly impossible at the time, but... I dunno.

But, I mean, my point is, if it was a "ghost" there was nothing ghostly about any of it. There was no cold feeling, no dread, no chains or sheets.
It was a dude. Who I thought was thieving.

Therefor, you could be seeing ghosts every day of the week. Ghost dogs. Ghost fish. Ghosts all over the shop. The only reason that I thought I saw a ghost was the part that a person should/could not behave that way.

That would be the logical extension, right?

[Spiderman]

A missile could not do that much dammage nor could it cause the pattern of destruction.

oh and where is the plane then, you know the one that did not hit the pentagon??

Erm i'm sure you could filnd a misslie that would do far less dmamage as well as one that could do far more. C'mon dude your a military boy so you must know about the yanks MOAB (mother of all bombs) and how big and powefull that was/is. Now that would have taken out half the building if it hit it in the right place. the lack of any substantial airplane parts as well as the lack of a black box leave me sceptical.

And i have no idea where that other plane is. Do you know for a fact it took of and didnt land elsewhere? have you seen flight logs for it or is your question based on "them" saying there was a plane?

Hi Spidey.
Long time no see and all that.
You're a moderator now I see?
I say old chap.

How about them ghosts?
Its some mystery eh!

We beat Wales too in the rugger. As far as I remember.
I never take any pleasure in beating Wales though.


Edit... oh yeah. The point of my post.
"Yes it does use the phone and TV cannels to communicate sometimes but thats gets really old really quick."

Yaysus.
Does that mean it says stuff through the TV?
That would be new underpants time for me.
That would be new trousers time for me in fact.


jay-zuz Philly you ole bolloks ya, where ya been? And howya?

and yeh, they held a mocha-frappa-chocha-chino to my head till i agreed ot be a mod. no wonder this place has gone downhill a bit since eh? ;)

And, PMSL, no he never said things thru the telly etc, he'd just change chanells turn the volume up or down or make the phone ring and when you answered it there would be nothing. No dial tone, no "sounds like its connected but the other person aint hung up properly" sounds either.

I did get a little curious about the phone thing tho and on a very brave evening sat by the phone and said out loud " I dont believe you can make the phone ring blah blah" goading him and guess what. The phone did ring. Again it was only me and my girl in the house at the time and she was sitting opposite me. This was also before everyone and their (ghost) dog had mobile phone so it wasnt her being clever.

Not exactly spooky but still very odd and nothing i can explain sensibly.

[sinbad]

Em. So... I am not really a believer. I sort of dont really believe what I saw even.
I dunno. Anyway, if I was to argue for ghosts, I would say that if I saw one... emm, so, if I did, my brain could not tell it from anyone on the street.
In fact, the only way I knew that it wasn't some normal guy was because he vanished.
It might have even been a normal guy, ( I sort of wanted it to be because that involves less thinking ). He might have somehow gotten in, not robbed anything, even the money, and then... got out. Somehow.
It seemed fairly impossible at the time, but... I dunno.

But, I mean, my point is, if it was a "ghost" there was nothing ghostly about any of it. There was no cold feeling, no dread, no chains or sheets.
It was a dude. Who I thought was thieving.

Therefor, you could be seeing ghosts every day of the week. Ghost dogs. Ghost fish. Ghosts all over the shop. The only reason that I thought I saw a ghost was the part that a person should/could not behave that way.

That would be the logical extension, right?

Totally unprovable (without double checking everything you see is real and not "ghostly") and incredibly implausible, but not disprovable either so sure, why not hey? :)
In your position I would have made the lads I worked with tell me everything they knew about this "ghost" from your story. How often will you find yourself in that position again?

For the record, I'm not completely closed-minded about weird stuff, I'm not even really a cynic. It would be a brilliant experience to witness something genuinely incredible or paranormal, and I believe I would be able to spot something like that if it happened. I haven't, and I don't really believe anyone else has, because I've never been convinced by their accounts or evidence. Everything has an explanation, it's just that "ghost" can be convenient, exciting and something to make a story out of. Maybe all the tall-tale-tellers, exploiters, tricksters, money-grabbers and band-wagon-riders have spoilt things for the few that speak the truth.

[skint]

I hope there is something in it cosreally fancy being one when the time is right :p

When I lived in Kent we experienced 'something' seeing shadows, hearing voices (not going mad - yet) when no one about, kids battery toys starting up with on one else in the house. Neighbour had similar experiences with someone unlocking her patio door.

When we looked into it we found out that it was previously a brick yard and some poor sod was murdered by being chucked into a huge water container. A medium character (actually she was quite tall) said that the 'ghost' was the murdered chaps brother looking for him. we were advised to burn lavendar oil and a church candle in our hallway and ask the spirit to leave as we left the house to go to work. Felt a right prat but did it anyway.

Real ghost or psychowotsit, we didn't have anymore situations!!:smt103

:help:

[philipMac]

Totally unprovable (without double checking everything you see is real and not "ghostly") and incredibly implausible, but not disprovable either so sure, why not hey? :)
In your position I would have made the lads I worked with tell me everything they knew about this "ghost" from your story. How often will you find yourself in that position again?

For the record, I'm not completely closed-minded about weird stuff, I'm not even really a cynic. It would be a brilliant experience to witness something genuinely incredible or paranormal, and I believe I would be able to spot something like that if it happened. I haven't, and I don't really believe anyone else has, because I've never been convinced by their accounts or evidence. Everything has an explanation, it's just that "ghost" can be convenient, exciting and something to make a story out of. Maybe all the tall-tale-tellers, exploiters, tricksters, money-grabbers and band-wagon-riders have spoilt things for the few that speak the truth.

Ha ha. So, just for the record I am not saying that this is what I believe. I am just saying that people may have preconceptions, and that this can lead you to believe something, ie that "ghosts" look "ghostly". When, in fact this might not be so.
There might be just ghosts everywhere, if you rule out this preconception.

The truth tellers vrs the others... I mean... the thing with me, was I would genuinely prefer that I had not seen that guy. Or that a normal explanation could have been found for him.

I went down there later that day, and scrutinized the place for some way that a guy could vanish like that. There was no p!ss taking with the lads. No one "didnt want to talk about it", but equally no one was interested in talking about it. It was completely uninteresting, and I suppose the matter of factness of it all made me ignore it to an extent.

Everything has an explanation. Right. I suppose.
But, the explanation might not always sit in your comfort zone.

This is slightly by the by, but here goes:
I was with a girl, first serious gf, and we were very very close.
She was in uni every day, I was out in the mountains running every day. There was no real change in the pattern, I would be out all day, and I would be back at around the same time. This was pre mobile phone era, and I would be a fair way out in the hills.
One day I just randomly changed my route, and got into difficulties. I wont bore you with details but I ended up in a bad spot, and was utterly convinced I was going to die or get badly hurt for about 15 mins. I wasnt scared per se, but I was very sad for my sisters, and my parents and my gf who would have to deal with me dying.
I managed not to die.
I came home, normal time.
My gf was out, at a friends, and she had left a note for me, but the note made no sense. I managed to find her in the end, but first I found a couple of her friends. They told me that half way through a lecture, she got up, and just left. She had gone to a toilet and thrown up, and she had skipped out of college for the rest of the day. Now, she was pretty dedicated, and she was doing a Masters at the time I think, so she didnt normally do this. She was a mess all day from that point on, I think she was crying and things. None of her friends knew what the story was.
When I met her, she looked at me, and she knew. She looked amazed to see me, we talked for about 30 mins about it. She did not know the details, but she knew that something very bad had (*not* as it turns out) happened.

It was very strange. She left the lecture at the time of my incident. And she was so disturbed that the rest of the day was a write off.

Now, I cant explain that either. But, that also happened. There is no argument about this.
But, the interesting thing is, neither of us ever talked about that again, because it scared us. I am not even sure if she ever thinks about it any more.
My point is, that we did not like this memory, not because I almost bought it, I think it is because we have no idea at all as to how that could happen. Its easier to sort of pretend it didnt happen.
I feel like a bit of a muppet talking about it, and the bike shop event, because of all the rubbish that goes along with this stuff, its sort of embarrassing.

But, I try to be an honest person, and an honest person should simply ignore things that dont fit into their reality.
Believe me though... the fact that we reached this silent agreement to never talk about it again just shows how difficult it is.

[Lionheart]

Hmm, I'm not sure, still waiting to be convinced but not ruling it out. Certainly hope that there is something after life as we know it. I think that it's a collection of energy of some sort, not necessary in the shape of bodies.
I know that my friend's daughter is 'experiencing' some strange phenonema at the moment, but she is 16 and falls into that adoloscent theory.
Mind you, I do fancy visiting St Marys in Edinburgh - it's supposed to be an old town that has been re-opened after being sealed off because of plague (i think) and then built over. Still has some of the shops in pretty much the same state . Heard stories about weird happenings there, and they now do tours !

[philipMac]

Hmm, I'm not sure, still waiting to be convinced

Me too. And I have a feeling this will probably never occur.
Who knows though eh?

And therefore as a stranger give it welcome...
there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.... and all that.


Ahem.
I'll get me coat on the way out.

[neio79]

Erm i'm sure you could filnd a misslie that would do far less dmamage as well as one that could do far more. C'mon dude your a military boy so you must know about the yanks MOAB (mother of all bombs) and how big and powefull that was/is. Now that would have taken out half the building if it hit it in the right place. the lack of any substantial airplane parts as well as the lack of a black box leave me sceptical.

And i have no idea where that other plane is. Do you know for a fact it took of and didnt land elsewhere? have you seen flight logs for it or is your question based on "them" saying there was a plane?




.

yeah i know there are really big bombs. but the lack of parts, vaporisation on impact?? black box destroyed?? the scatter pattern is consistant wit ha plane hiting the building, are there eye witnesees to say they saw aplane or missile??

and whay about the 4th plane that never made it United 93, doccumented evidence of a hijak!

[sinbad]

Right. I suppose.
But, the explanation might not always sit in your comfort zone.


I'm fully prepared to accept that if it happens, as long as it is a genuine explanation, not just an idea.
What I don't accept is that if something can not be explained then it must therefore be paranormal. There is no solid evidence of any of this paranormal stuff being real, so if you're realistic then the very very last thing it would be is paranormal. All I'm saying is eliminate every possibility, however unlikely, before even considering that it could be x-file worthy- and even then the idea that you're simply not smart enough to figure it out is much more plausible. :) (The royal "you" not you specifically of course, not an insult ;) ).

[Spiderman]

I'm fully prepared to accept that if it happens, as long as it is a genuine explanation, not just an idea.
What I don't accept is that if something can not be explained then it must therefore be paranormal. There is no solid evidence of any of this paranormal stuff being real, so if you're realistic then the very very last thing it would be is paranormal. All I'm saying is eliminate every possibility, however unlikely, before even considering that it could be x-file worthy- and even then the idea that you're simply not smart enough to figure it out is much more plausible. :) (The royal "you" not you specifically of course, not an insult ;) ).

I accept what youre saying here and i have the same view tbh.
I'm sure our friend Phil (being a research scientist) does too.

The phone ringing thing i experienced....as soon as i hung the phone up i did the 1471 thing and the last call recieved had not been that one but one from earlier in the day.
At another friends house he used to be able to make his fone ring seemingly at will.....until he admited that he had run the phone line into the room himslef and been realy clever (read lazy) about it and run it under the carpet across the room.
His justifcation was it saved all the fiddly nailing it to the skirtings stuff.
The upshot was that where it rubbed under the carpet it shorted and if you knew where that was all you did was stand on that bit of the carpet and hey presto phone rings!

"I got this girl!!" i thought to myself and jumped up to follow the phone wire to the socket. Sadly for me it was attached to the skirtings to a proper junction box that didnt ring when i banged it. No matter how many times. And anyway she was on the other side of the room to that.

The fact that she was just watching telly while i investigated this and was so uninterested in me doing it also made me aware of her not playing with me.

I rang the phone from my mobile and answered it myself and it worked properly.

Short of surrounding the house in a Farraday Cage until something happended again there was nothing else i didnt attempt to find an answer as to why the fone rang when i dared it to. :confused:

So what do i put it down to?

A dodgy phone, its broken and rings randomly and my daring it to was just coincedental timing.

The second time it happens....hmmm? Another coincidence of timing?

Couple that with the footsteps at the top of the stairs on the landing. Footsteps that i heard go right across from the left side of that landing to the right while i stood watched that same space with the lights fully on and saw not a damn thing??

I dont rush to say "OOH I SAW A GHOST" cos i didnt and never have but hearing that and watching but seeing nothing???? WTF is it?

Brings us back to much eye-rolling and "Oh its just the ghost, ignore him he wont bother you" from all the family (including a very no nonsense Dubliner of a dad) and it leaves me with little else but agree with them.

Trust me if i read this and it hadn't happened to me there would still be a part of me that says "maybe hes making it all up" but i aint.

I've lived an interesting enough life without having to add to it with made up stuff, lol.

[philipMac]

Brings us back to much eye-rolling and "Oh its just the ghost, ignore him he wont bother you" from all the family (including a very no nonsense Dubliner of a dad) and it leaves me with little else but agree with them.

Trust me if i read this and it hadn't happened to me there would still be a part of me that says "maybe hes making it all up" but i aint.



Yup. Exactly.
In fact it did happen to me, I think, and I still am not convinced at all. It only happened once. That I know of ;)... There is a huge part of me that just wants to put that away and not think about it, this is resulting from social pressure basically. I feel that this is dishonest though somehow.

I suppose I should not have said I saw a "ghost", because that in some way is an explanation to what I saw. I have no clue what I saw.

I should say that I, and independently other people, saw something that none of us could explain at the time, or subsequently.

I would suspect that what I "saw" wasnt really there though.

[Spiderman]

That story about your g/f back in uni sounds very much like other things ive heard of and something that happened to me btw.

[philipMac]

That story about your g/f back in uni sounds very much like other things ive heard of and something that happened to me btw.

Right.

This is why I am thinking that "ghosts" are hallucinations that are a result of other people, who are alive.
That there can be communication between people in some odd way, which can be voluntary or none voluntary at both parties, and can manifest itself as actually seeing something, hearing something, or feeling something.

This means that one... sort of leap... you explain multiple things.

If you go the "its dead people" route, then you have to add all sort of other things to the equation. I quite firmly believe when you die, that's it.

Just... from the way I think I suppose, I like the meanest, the cheapest or most parsimonious explanation for anything.

Once you can explain that communication, which granted is really wierd, but its only one thing, then it is totally possible that once the message is in your head, your brain interprets the message in any number of ways.

What is "seeing" anyway? Its just an interpretation of EM radiation bouncing off cells in your eyes, being turned into little pulses and fired into your brain.
Or hearing. Or any sense really.

You brain is the thing that makes what you believe to be real.

One funny example:
I saw an Owl once, high in the Andes. Very beautiful... it just flew right past me when I was getting water for breakfast.
I was completely alone, so no one else saw it. And it was completely silent.

But this is the interesting part.
My brain somehow borked. As far as it was concerned, there was no way that something that size, moving that closely to me, could make no sound at all. So... what did it do? I thought I was imagining the owl. My brain just said, nahh, hallucination mate.

But, I know that owls move silently. From books and things. So, I over rode my brain, and said, no, its an owl.

My point is... that your brain just makes best guesses, resulting from experience. And it can get things wrong, or mixed up very easily I think.

[sinbad]

Right.

This is why I am thinking that "ghosts" are hallucinations that are a result of other people, who are alive.
That there can be communication between people in some odd way, which can be voluntary or none voluntary at both parties, and can manifest itself as actually seeing something, hearing something, or feeling something.

This means that one... sort of leap... you explain multiple things.

If you go the "its dead people" route, then you have to add all sort of other things to the equation. I quite firmly believe when you die, that's it.

Just... from the way I think I suppose, I like the meanest, the cheapest or most parsimonious explanation for anything.

Once you can explain that communication, which granted is really wierd, but its only one thing, then it is totally possible that once the message is in your head, your brain interprets the message in any number of ways.

What is "seeing" anyway? Its just an interpretation of EM radiation bouncing off cells in your eyes, being turned into little pulses and fired into your brain.
Or hearing. Or any sense really.

You brain is the thing that makes what you believe to be real.

One funny example:
I saw an Owl once, high in the Andes. Very beautiful... it just flew right past me when I was getting water for breakfast.
I was completely alone, so no one else saw it. And it was completely silent.

But this is the interesting part.
My brain somehow borked. As far as it was concerned, there was no way that something that size, moving that closely to me, could make no sound at all. So... what did it do? I thought I was imagining the owl. My brain just said, nahh, hallucination mate.

But, I know that owls move silently. From books and things. So, I over rode my brain, and said, no, its an owl.

My point is... that your brain just makes best guesses, resulting from experience. And it can get things wrong, or mixed up very easily I think.

An interesting, well constructed theory and a really good post :cool:

The "communication between people in some odd way" part has the making of a life's obsession :)

[gettin2dizzy]

anyone who's ever hallucinated in any way should know how easy it is for the mind to invent such believable (wonderful) stuff.

[Kate Moss]

anyone who's ever hallucinated in any way should know how easy it is for the mind to invent such believable (wonderful) stuff.


can the brain make you think you can hear things that aren't actualy happening?

[gettin2dizzy]

Of course! You could hear a whole fictional orchestra if you wanted

[Kate Moss]

Of course! You could hear a whole fictional orchestra if you wanted


so the voices i can hear - they are not real?

[fizzwheel]

I think that "Ghosts" are used as a general label for stuff that the human brain can't put a tag on or work out what is going on.

A bit similar to Philipmac with this one.

I'd been having a rough time, personal stuff, I'd for a period of weeks been smelling sweet smell in my house, like fresh cut flowers and the smell would follow me about.

I'd gone out on my bike one day to clear my head and I'd gone all along the coast road, not really concentrating bimbling, I'd felt a distinct presence that somebody not I note something, but I had the feeling that somebody was sat on the pillion seat of my bike, it wasnt scarey or odd, it was comforting the feeling that somebody was sat there and was enjoying the ride, I had this feeling for a good few minutes, I just carried on riding and didnt really think anymore of it. I'm a quite open minded person where stuff like this is concerned...

I picked up the pace a bit well alot and came hacking round a corner to be confront by a nice piece of wet road and dodgy road surface, caused myself a moment but I got round the corner safely and got home.

I went to see my friend who is into all sorts of alternative stuff, Spiritual stuff, and alternative healing stuff such as Reiki ( sp ) etc etc, she also reads Tarrot cards to.

I told her about the thing with the smell of flowers, and that I'd been out on the bike and felt like somebody was sat on the pillion seat, at which point my friend smiled at me and then proceeded to tell me exactly where I'd been on the bike and pretty much described the corner that I'd had my moment on.

It pretty much amazed me and she said it was my spirit guide who was looking after me at that time as I needed looking after. The smell of flowers was the spirit guides perfume...

I had other experiences to when I was 19 somebody I worked with died in a motorbike accident I was quite close to Toby he was somebody I respected and I learnt a lot from him, I spent lots of time working away from home and woudl spend hours in the car nattering to Toby about stuff and he pushed my career along in a postive way, I was pretty devasted when he died and I was upset, a few days after he died I was driving alolng in my car when I felt a presence in the car and a fatherly hand on my shoulder and it was almost as if I was being told "It'll be OK" that kind of feeling.

My friend Pete died in Feb 2006 I'd known him a very long time and we'd been on holidays together and worked together for a number of years. Pete died walking along he pavement after he had been in the pub, he was knocked over by a drunk driver. He died in the early hours of friday morning, during friday those of us who knew him gravitated towards his local pub, to have a drink for him and support each other. I'd had a few drinks and I am damn sure I could feel Pete going round the pub grinning his grin and saying goodbye to everybody, it was a postive experience and not one that scared me just saying goodbye to a friend that I knew I wasnt going to see again.

Ghosts.. no I dont think so, but I believe that you have a soul and that when you die that soul goes somewhere but I dont know where.

I cant explain any of it, its a feeling that I had on those seperate occasions, theres no way my friend would have known where I had gone on my bike and the level of details she used to describe the road journey and the corner and the feeilngs I'd had would have been difficult for somebody unless they were a biker and had been out with me that day which she isnt and hadnt.

[philipMac]

An interesting, well constructed theory and a really good post :cool:

Aww shucks.
Infinite monkeys on infinite type writers effect there I think.



The "communication between people in some odd way" part has the making of a life's obsession :)Not if you want an easy life I would say.

[Lionheart]

I Must admit, this life after death stuff fascinates me, and I find Fizzwheel's story intriguing, with regards to his friend who does tarot.
I was working in Scotland on a contract a couple of years ago, and use to discuss various life/death theories with a colleague at the work place on a regular basis. We eventually went to a spiritualist church somewhere. While the 'preacher' (would that be the right word) was out front doing the 'I have someone from ...' bit, she targetted me. Now nearly all the info she gave was just not anything at all to do with me, in fact the only thing she came up was that she associated me with a red rose, hardly surprising as I was probably the only Englishman in the audience.
She linked me with a nurse in Glasgow bac in the end of the 1800's. Scotland is the only place in my family tree that i can not trace any ancestry from.
She also said about I knew someone who died from a sudden trauma, and then explained something about the head. Nothing for me. All she said whenever I said no to any of her revelations was 'just check it out'. Now I believe she thought she was genuine, but there was nothing there for me.
However, when I was discussing all this with my colleague, who was sitting next to me in the church and was keeping silent throughout, she told me about how her father died in a car accident when coming home from work, basically decapitation. We then found that we were able to align a lot of what the preacher/medium ? said seemed to fit in with my colleague.
Weird ? My colleague has since taken up training for clairvoyance. Unfortunately, I haven't talked to her in a while so do not know how things are going.
I have been to quite a few 'readings' in local psychic fares since, and find them all to be very hit and miss.
As I said, I have yet to be convinced. I would dearly love to be convinced as it would be something comforting as you get older, but at the moment it is still a vacuum.

[philipMac]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_reading
http://skepdic.com/coldread.html

For me... no offense like... but for me, psychics fall pretty hard and fast under the previously mentioned category of scammers trying to make a buck.
What makes me annoyed is they will prey on people's loss and grief. They gain from your loss.
People will almost always want this sort of thing to be true. People go in with expectations.

Whether they are all scammers, or its just most of them, I dont know.

[Lionheart]

I agree with what you say about scammers, but there is still that slight chance that something might be there. If you ever watch that programme crossing over with Jonathan Edwards, then you will agree that there is some pretty weird stuff that is hard to explain.
But yes, we all grasp at anything that might be close to home, and will generally mold information to fit in with our needs. It just would be nice to get some proof that there is something out there, but then again, unless we get actuall physical/recorded evidence then it's all going to be down to opinions. As I said, I still need to be convinced, but I have not dismissed the possibilities yet.
Good discussion topic this !

[sinbad]

Cold reading is fraud in my opinion. I believe they should prosecute people for doing it and let's face it, it would be easy for someone with experience to tell - the only ones that would complain would be the dishonest fraudsters.

Only by stopping the cheats would the "real" psychics gain credibility, assuming they exist. If not, then it's the end of all the bull crap, and that's only a bad thing for the money grabbing exploiters of the weak minded and vulnerable.

Either that or there are no false pretenses, and it's made fully well known to customers that it is simply a trick.

[laMon]

i would not dismiss anything, as we really don't know how many "wavelengths" there are. It's difficult to prove as we don't know or have those receivers figured out as yet. If the universe is infinite (impossible to imagine) how can we dismiss invisible rays that some people pick up. how many things have not yet been discovered?

Ask peeps 500 years ago about mobile phones, TVs etc...what would they think/ say? you would burn for asking.

[gettin2dizzy]

We can dismiss it outright on the basis that there is no evidence whatsover, no part of science could even vaguely support the theories of these loons. Why is it that the stories of ghost/sightings always fall similar to illustrations in books? It's like how alien sightings all look like prosthetic makeup from aliens from films. The BBC have run a long series dismissing these pyschics, as have channel 4 as have channel 5. If you pick up the book classed as the bible amongst psychics it talks openly about how much bull**** it is. Anyone who works in these arts in my mind is either a conartist, or as deluded as the people who believe it.

[laMon]

We can dismiss it outright on the basis that there is no evidence whatsover, no part of science could even vaguely support the theories of these loons. Anyone who works in these arts in my mind is either a conartist, or as deluded as the people who believe it.

No evidence in science as it stands today, are you saying we know it all now? is there nothing left to be discovered?:rolleyes:

[gettin2dizzy]

No evidence in science as it stands today, are you saying we know it all now? is there nothing left to be discovered?:rolleyes:
No, but as the case with aliens science is open to it as it understands that it is possible. With ghosts however this is completely bonkers. It's such an arrogant viewpoint that humans would come back as ghosts, has no one an understanding of just how insignificant our time on the planet is?!

[laMon]

No, but as the case with aliens science is open to it as it understands that it is possible. With ghosts however this is completely bonkers. It's such an arrogant viewpoint that humans would come back as ghosts, has no one an understanding of just how insignificant our time on the planet is?!

our significance is irrelevant, the possibilities are (infinite universe etc).

We live on a little planet that is a part of an infinite universe, there is plenty of room for plenty of souls;)

[gettin2dizzy]

our significance is irrelevant, the possibilities are (infinite universe etc).

We live on a little planet that is a part of an infinite universe, there is plenty of room for plenty of souls;)
pah!



;)

[neio79]

our significance is irrelevant, the possibilities are (infinite universe etc).

We live on a little planet that is a part of an infinite universe, there is plenty of room for plenty of souls;)


indeed i think it is very niaeve to think that out of the infinite solar systems and galaxys that we are the only living beings in the universe.

there will be other living organisums out there some less advanced some more!