Filtering and insurance claims.

[DanAbnormal]

I just spoke with my insurer who says third party is going for 50/50 on my claim and I have been advised to take it.

The incident:
I was filtering passed stationary traffic at about 10 - 15mph when said car decides at last second to perform U turn without looking or indicating. Apparently he broke no law by doing this and the case law even if it went to court may see me getting more than 50 percent of the blame as I should not have been filtering. My solicitor has told me that the case law is there which gives the biker a 50 percent liability on this one. I sent the letter with the filtering info on it taken from the Highway code (send to me from Paws) which had no use whatsoever. I even have a witness that told them the car just pulled out. But because I was filtering (carefully I might add) I get the same blame as the driver who just didn't bother his fat ass looking. So, in short if you get knocked off while filtering you will get some of the blame. bummer. I may need to sell my Ninja next year if the insurance goes up too much. Still, on the plus side I have this guys address now.:p

Our country has become so anti-biker now that even when we are the victims we are treated as crazy speed freaks with no regard for the safety of ourselves or others (well, that's me at the weekend but ssshh). It won't stop me though, just one of the downsides of biking.

[Warthog]

That is really annoying. It seems more and more likely that filtering will become illegal surely? If everytime you are doing it and have an accident you are at least 50% to blame. Maybe you fancy going to court to create case law of motorbike being blamefree, if you have witnesses etc?

[sarah]

What a ****ter :(

[the_lone_wolf]

powell vs. moody has been superceded, can't remember the name of the case, something like schroegen vs...


edit: found it - you need to read up the case of Davis v Schrogin

[sarah]

powell vs. moody has been superceded, can't remember the name of the case, something like schroegen vs...

Davis vs Schrogin

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Dont give up. There is a more recent case where the car was found mostly, if not totally (cant remember) liable, when the biker filtered past at 40mph, 3-4 times faster than you.

[sarah]

That case sounds v similar to your Dan, might be worth double checking whether or not your solicitor is aware of it.

[the_lone_wolf]

Mr Schrogin was stuck in a traffic jam in his car on a straight road. Mr Davis was riding a motorcycle along the same road in the same direction and was able to overtake the stationary queue as nothing was coming in the opposite direction. Mr Schrogin decided to leave the queue by executing a U-turn. Although Mr Davis' motorcycle was visible, Mr Schrogin did not see him until his car collided with the motorbike. Mr Schrogin accepted in evidence that he was looking the wrong way. Mr Davis first saw Mr Schrogin's car moving towards the kerb in preparation for the u-turn and was no more than five cars' length back from the point of impact.

The trial judge found Mr Schrogin negligent in making the u-turn without looking properly, and that Mr Davis was not to blame. Mr Schrogin argued that Mr Davis had accepted that he had paused to react and was contributory negligent. The Court of Appeal held that Mr Davis was so close to the point of impact that he could not have avoided the collision, so there was no basis for a finding of contributory negligence.
http://www.toppingpartnership.co.uk/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=17048&d=101&h=350&f=351

[Grinch]

Thats rubbish... as Lynn will tell you too, there is nothing in the high way code about filtering being illeagal and its call 'making progress'. Even cars do it if there is the space for them to perform the move, its the guy doing the U-turns prerogatived to ensure that it is safe for him to perform the manover. And even if he indicated it does not give him the right of way, just a indication of a intention to change direction.
They all just spout "powell vs. moody" to get you scared and your solicitor probably doesn't want the hassle.

Have a word with White Dalton (Wayne rides a SV1000) and have a look and this example (http://www.whitedalton.co.uk/site/Who-Is-To-Blame/overtaking-lines-of-traffic.htm) from there site.

[sarah]

Thats rubbish... as Lynn will tell you too, there is nothing in the high way code about filtering being illeagal and its call 'making progress'. Even cars do it if there is the space for them to perform the move, its the guy doing the U-turns prerogatived to ensure that it is safe for him to perform the manover. And even if he indicated it does not give him the right of way, just a indication of a intention to change direction.
They all just spout "powell vs. moody" to get you scared and your solicitor probably doesn't want the hassle.

Have a word with White Dalton (Wayne rides a SV1000) and have a look and this example (http://www.whitedalton.co.uk/site/Who-Is-To-Blame/overtaking-lines-of-traffic.htm) from there site.

Dan's case seems more similar to the Davis case to me anyway.

[Colby]

Dan.... very similar to mine and mine got settled 100% in my favour. Who are the legal people? Are they a specialist bike firm? Did you get the PM I sent you about going to Rider Support Services when you first had the accident.

You should be able to get 100% in my opinion. Sounds like your legal people cant be bothered with it and/or dont know what they are doing....

[Fizzy Fish]

They all just spout "powell vs. moody" to get you scared and your solicitor probably doesn't want the hassle.

Have a word with White Dalton

Agree - I fell foul of a lazy-arsed solicitor in a similar case several years ago, and in the same situation now would head straight for White Dalton.

The recent case quoted in this thread sounds promising on your part, but good luck anyway!

[ASM-Forever]

As others have insinuated, it sounds like you have a lazy/incompetent solicitor.

Good luck with it mate.

[kwak zzr]

50/50 sucks:( its an easy get out for the insurance company's thats all goodnight.

[DanAbnormal]

Thanks folks.

Apparently my insurance company have accepted 50% liability on my behalf. I didn't think this was even possible. Never, ever use Equity Red Star, they are cheap for a reason!

I'll be looking into this one a little more I think.

Dan

[the_lone_wolf]

it's frightening if they can do that, i'd be in touch saying you don't accept the offer and will come after them for the rest + damages (increased premiums etc) unless they get on the case or let you take it up with another, more competent, legal representative

[Jools'SV Now]

Piece in last months BIKE mag, with different scenarios and what you're likely to get.

your scenario = 100%

Write to your representatives and tell them that you have not settled for 50% and they are instructed by you, not the other way around.:smt062

They want to settle to get paid quickly, not to get your best outcome.

Take it to court and get 100% as per the Davis vs Schrogin 2006

[Grinch]

Thanks folks.

Apparently my insurance company have accepted 50% liability on my behalf. I didn't think this was even possible. Never, ever use Equity Red Star, they are cheap for a reason!

I'll be looking into this one a little more I think.

Dan

I would too, as just cus your insurance company have accepted liability doesn't mean you have to, and you could instruct another solisitor as you don't need to use the one supplied. You will probably get all your money back and then pay back the insurance company too. It just might take time... in one of mine it was 2 years before I got my money back and untill then I had to put up with increased premiums, which I claimed back when my case was won.

[metalmonkey]

What total ****, filtering isn't illegeal you can do it legally. Most people just thinks its ilegal casue they are arrorgant morans.

If your not going to lose your current claim take it to court, becasue I think this should made public so people know that we can filter. Maybe try another lawyer. I would be really interested to see the result.

Tell your company that you won't accept the claim, make a complaint take it furthur if you need to.

[Nostrils]

Thanks folks.

Apparently my insurance company have accepted 50% liability on my behalf. I didn't think this was even possible. Never, ever use Equity Red Star, they are cheap for a reason!

I'll be looking into this one a little more I think.

Dan

Dont accept this from Equity Red Star - They should be fighting your case and consulting with you on every stage - Check your contract with Equity Red Star and see what the small print says. Insurance companies are in the business to make money full stop, any trick to save money or even pay out is used.

This sort of thing make my blood boil

[Biker Biggles]

You might find the other driver was insured through a company owned by the same group of underwriters as Equity Red Star.Why would they then argue about who pays what when they can just cost you your no claims and load your future premiums?Get a proper lawyer and fight it.

[I'm_a_Newbie]

More detailed account can be found here:

http://alpha.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2006/974.html

Tim

[Pedro68]

Dan, as everyone else seems to have said ... Davis vs Schrogin seems the way to go.

I would be interested to hear why you think you shouldn't have been filtering though, as this may have quite a bearing on your particular case (and isn't every case different?!).

Good luck with it tho Dan. Wish I'd taken mine further, but then on reflection I think I wasn't harshly treated. I was filtering on a motorway at about 30 - 35mph between 2 lanes of "almost stationary" traffic. That was a bit too fast for the police's liking, and I got "offered" a National Driver Improvement Scheme because of that (rather than a charge of 'driving without due care and attention').

Pete

[thor]

Yes it's boloocks, as I have been offered 80/20 straight off. The highway code makes it clear that:

Filtering is overtaking.
Being overtaken means you must let them pass.
Moving around in/out of your lane whilst overtaken is dangerous.

To make a right turn you must perform adequate observation.

Either way, they lose.

[Daimo]

Don't accept.

I was doing the same, 15-20mph, inside the line, filtering. Someone done a U turn and took me out.

Im getting (refused first offer of) £965 + bike repairs of about another £500 all in.

Taken a year, long, drawn out, i've quoted previous cases like this (of which the insurers knew about anyway) and at last it seems im winning.

Thats after 3 storey changes by the other party, they still tried it on. I've won, but the aid of a witness confirmed my storey.

Don't lie down, fight it.