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Re: Deep Deep thought / question

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoulKiss (Post 1183353)

Ok heres my rant on the subject :)

Long, Long ago, in a Place Far Far away there was a change in how human beings did things.

They started to come together in larger and larger groups, villages were formed, which became towns, which became cities.

Now the wise men who guided these settlements saw more and more law-less behaviour, but as they were old they were unable to do anything about it.

Theft, Murder, Adultery, all happened on a daily basis.

Then one day, one of them came up with an idea, and seeing someone in an act of law-lessness, went up to them and said "If you do that again, I am no going to do anything to you, after all I am old and weak, you are young and strong, but when you die, then there will be a Judgment".

This probably tied in with the evolving belief that lightning was the chariots of the God(s) etc.

And so a code of laws was formed.

If you look at most of the major religions, they all pretty much say the same thing - get married, have children, dont steal etc.

So basically Religion is to the ancient world what Law is to the modern world with the enforcers moving from being "Priests" who recite what will happen to you, to being "Police" who will not only tell you what not to do, but will punish you in the here and now.

Food Taboos can be attributed to "Mad Pig Disease" etc.

Law can be seen as the indicator of the breakdown of the control of society by the Religious caste - after all if everyone fears the Deity, then no-one would dare break the law.

Well thats a rough and ready summary of how I see things, and as I rushed, it probably isnt as clear/well written as I would like it to be - also my whole belief thing is still a work in progress, I dont believe in a Deity, but I do believe in things happening for a reason and what comes around goes around - Karma in other words, and if such a system exsists, well there must be a scorekeeper of some kind. But then maybe I just believe that because it makes hard things easier to swallow.

David

I think SoulKiss has exactly the same views as me.

I have looked into all the major (and some of the minor) religions and they all seem to contradict themselves on one level or another. They also don't fit in with the modern scientific way of thinking.

However, having said that, I know that many people believe strongly in these religions and they bring comfort and order to their lives. I just wish that people would stop using them as an excuse to kill other people (either in major wars or in these stupid extremist terrorist actions we've been involved in).

Just my 10p worth

Re: Deep Deep thought / question

Quote:

Originally Posted by beniryu (Post 1183356)

Why? You planning on joining me down there Sarah?

:smt077

Re: Deep Deep thought / question

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoulKiss (Post 1183353)

Exactly, it was a brilliant control mechanism, and still would be today if people didn't question the truth behind the tales. That doesn't mean the followers are gullible, but I do wish they wouldn't just assume that they are the only ones that are right! The ones that do that are the ones that are afraid of life and death; their religion is a comfort because they do not want to be fully responsible for their own existence. It's a wonderful security blanket.

Anyone see that Louis Theroux program called (i think) The Most Hated Family in America? There's a family over there that follow a certain set of scriptures, and noone else on earth follows them. They're all going to heaven, the rest of us are bound for hell. They said the war in Iraq was God punishing America for its sinful ways (ways such as men being gay, that was really top of the list, they would even protest at soldier's funerals and whether that soldier was gay or not they'd have anti-gay boards and shout abuse).
A horrible bunch of people. Their "leader" was the typical moron, who use the scriptures as fact, and any question he couldn't answer was deemed stupid.
But they're totally content, and totally free of any responsibility for the world around them, it's perfect. They've decided that they're the chosen few, this world doesn't mean anything, nor do the lives of the rest of us, and they can do what they want as long as they follow the faith.

They're seen as a cult, but the "moderate" christian faith in whatever guise has done far worse, and is still identical in many, many ways.

Re: Deep Deep thought / question

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed (Post 1183698)

Many on here base their atheist beliefs on the fact of human suffering and why does God (of whatever denomination) allow it. Why did God allow Hitler and Stalin to murder millions of people....

i base my belief on the fact that 'godly' forces do not exist. I don't understand how anyone with any scientific background can believe in god, its contradictory. What defines the bible as the truth when there are other scriptures dismissed? it states the earth as 6000 years old!

Re: Deep Deep thought / question

I read the bulk of this thread yesterday, but I wanted to sleep on it before posting. I expect to be mocked for doing so. Viper (my friend) asked for views. Yes, I could do so in a PM but part of my faith requires that I do so publically.

I’m a Christian, I was brought up as such but didn’t believe, I came to believe at the birth of my eldest. There was a very real danger that I would lose not only the child but my wife as well. I prayed and for the first time really meant it. I was in a room on my own, and suddenly I knew that everything would be ok. Did I hear “voices”, or see anything, No. Have I had that experience since, No.

I don’t know any of the answers to the big questions, I won’t until I am dead. I don’t preach to anyone, nor do I attempt to convert. I can’t abide by the rules set out by my faith, I can only try. I don’t hide my faith nor do I proclaim it all time. I don’t think that because I have faith I’m a better person than the faithless.

Can I now see the evidence of Gods work, Yes. All around me.

Someone posted on here that I should look at the Fallen Friends section as evidence that there is no God. One of the fallen was a personal friend, I met him only a few times, but his joy of life and his humour enriched my life. I see Gods work there too.

Re: Deep Deep thought / question

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mogs (Post 1183891)

I expect to be mocked for doing so.

You shouldn't.

Granted I know nothing about you, but from what was said in that post, you're one of the few that I purposefully didn't generalise about in my posts.

I've met a lot of Christians (I've met people from a lot of faiths in fact), but rarely have I met someone I would consider a "true Christian." That said, I have met a handful, who, like you, don't try to convert everyone they meet, or try to live by the guidelines & admit that they fail occasionally etc.

However, the vast vast majority (of those that I have met) seriously need to step down from the horse.

I'm sure you've seen this too Mogs, even from within your own Church. Certainly no mocking from me.

Re: Deep Deep thought / question

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mogs (Post 1183891)

There was a very real danger that I would lose not only the child but my wife as well. I prayed and for the first time really meant it. I was in a room on my own, and suddenly I knew that everything would be ok.

Would you still believe if things hadn't been ok?

Re: Deep Deep thought / question

"An Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will"

Re: Deep Deep thought / question

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ping (Post 1184114)

"An Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will"

Read up a bit, I said that a while back :p

Re: Deep Deep thought / question

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mogs (Post 1183891)

Someone posted on here that I should look at the Fallen Friends section as evidence that there is no God. One of the fallen was a personal friend, I met him only a few times, but his joy of life and his humour enriched my life. I see Gods work there too.

Better to have lived and loved for a short while than never to have lived or loved.
I know plenty of people that have had love ones taken from them and it has happened to me on a few occasions.
I have come to the conclusion that we are human and are responsible for our own actions.
God did not create cars, motorbikes, planes etc. We (humans) did. And if you CHOOSE to sit in or on what is in affect, a metal projectile than that is a risk YOU take. Do not blame or judge God if it all ends in death or injury.

I am in agreement with my friend mogs