Not watched race two yet, though I'm pretty sure I can guess the winner.

Good battle for 2nd 3rd 4th :D in the first one.

Gone quite All of a sudden haven't we Mr Henry, Suzuki's, better placed than a Ducati :oops: in a GP, AND IN THE DRY:D
Cracking races all of them so far though, the young guns Pedrosa and the fantastic Stoner really giving the older guys a run for there money (Sete :laughat: )

And Shakey narrowly missing out in a Suzuki victory at Oulton (due to having the plague or summat) I The wheels are starting to fall of the Ducati bandwagon if you ask me. :wink:

spudnuts.

Spud...I am sworn to silence at the moment. Will be passing a comment or two on the SV Moto GP thread mate. :wink:

:lol: The Ducati's will start winning again next year, because they will get the rules changed yet again - IN THERE FAVOUR OF COURSE :shock:

Did i read that twins were increasing to 1200cc next year, surely not to give Ducati a monopoly again.
Chog 8)

Chog...Have you actually watched any racing at all this year? Ducati have won already in Moto GP plus are performing brilliantly in both BSB and WSB? Check your facts before posting, there's a good chap! :wink:

Hmmm...but Mr Henry, surely Mr Bayliss is winning as it is...give him extra 200cc and it will be him in his own championship. Nothing will make the Japs walk away more than this. They done it before.

Basket what you Jap luvvers have failed to identify is that as a concession for getting the extra 200cc Ducati have suggested that they only ride on the back wheel and thuis giving Suzuki a bit of a chance! :wink: :P

honda built a v twin (sp1 + sp2) for WSB to compeat with the ducatis, so why dont ducati quit moaning and build there own il4 if they dont like the rules?

gets coat , leaves the room :roll:

And get rid of Troy Bayliss :D

Kwak wrote:

Indeed if i did not know you better, I would have sworn to suggest such a things is REALLY missing the point!

Not as long as Bolognese makes you parp will that ever happen! :P

yes mr. henry i have watched lots of racing :D In moto gp they have won only one race and i doubt they will win another. this season.:wink:
And yes they are running well in BSB and WSB but they are rattled hence they are trying hard to get the rules changed for next year.... They know that there is not much more power to be had from the current engine and they are running scared \:D/
Chog 8)

Yeah wot he say's :P :P :P

HONDA did it :wink:

FPR did it too.

Kwak...The fact that Honda and FPR did it completely misses the point. One which it would appear you do not grasp! :wink:

We are talking about DUCATI here not manufacturers aiming at the great unwashed! :P *

Chog.......I have every confidance that I will be jumping on the ropes of the ring in Cassius Clay fashion before too long and screaming at you....."EAT YOUR WORDS!"

Ducati you doubt to win again this season? Your really having a laugh now! :P

*If that dont get a knee jerk then nuffin will!* :wink:

the point i do not grasp! is only the point that the sbk review put to colin wright 2 weeks ago!

:P You are right they may win one more race this year, that will equal the 2 wins they had last year and will bring there total MotoGp wins upto a massive 4 wins. :oops:

I still doubt they will win, and you still haven't answered why Ducati want the increase to 1200cc next season if there bikes are so competitive :oops: :oops:


Chog 8)

Because they have to run the WSB and BSB in such a high state of tune to make the power. Which means they have to use expensive engine bits and bobs and also frequent rebuilds. which cost money.

IIRC the Honda SP2 that Colin Edwards rode in 2002 would do 1500 km's before a rebuild where as the Ducat of Baylis was doing 700 km's before a rebuild.

The argument goes for 1200 that if they run a bigger capacity bike. They wont have to tune it so higly to make power comparable with the IL4 so therefore it wont cost as much for Ducati to run a WSB or BSB team.

I'm sure Peter will correct me if I have got this wrong though

This makes perfect sense to me, but isn't this too tempting for the twin guys too tune thatbit more to get an advantage? I would in their place, winning makes you greedy.

Fizz....That was as good as if copied and pasted right from Ducati's own meeting notes! :wink: Well done that chap. :P

Instead of bleating on & on & on about how it's all so unfair & that everyone's against them etc, etc, etc . . .

Why don't they work out how to build an engine that can be raced effectively both from a financial & results point of view ??

If Ducati are allowed to run a 1200cc engine they will spend just as much - because they'll tweek it to within a nanometre of its life thus giving them an even bigger advantage !!

Let's face it Ducati will do ANYTHING to win - as proved a few years ago when their bike somehow mysteriously managed to keep running whilst on its side without the rider holding the throttle open - a feat they were challenged to repeat under scrutiny to prove their innocence & couldn't !!

I have nothing whatsoever against the riders - nor even Colin Wright (after all he HAS to spout the company line or lose his back-up) - I just think that Ducati are a bunch of cheating, whinging, lying B*****DS !!

:rant:

I feel better now !! :D

If Doran eta all have any sense. They limit the amount of tuning work you can do on a twin to stop Ducati tuning the nads off it.

:wink: Wasn't this a similar arguement they used a few years ago when they were allowed 1000cc's and all the inline 4's had to be 750cc. :wink:


I am not anti Ducati but think that they should just get on with it and if they can't compete with what they have got then develop a newer more powerful engine :P

Ducati have had there own way for to long, they are now a multi national company and have shown with the Moto Gp programme that they are not to far behind the japs( but they are still behind) :D

WSB wasn't started to be a rolling ducati advert or a one make event and the powers that be shouldn't let Ducati take it down that road. :x

Chog 8)

Umh not quite I think. I think that Ducati Exploited a loophole in the existing regulations. I think that there was misprint in the regulations that allowed them to run a 1000cc Twin and it could weigh less than the 750 fours. Again I might be wrong though

oooh I say as Mrs.Merton would no doubt comment....."What a lively little debate!" :lol:

No matter how much shenaningans goes on with Ducati trying to get the odd "leg up" they will always have my support as for sheer financial clout they just cannot compete with the Nipponese manufacturers.Period.

I do not want to see the racing devalued by unfair advantage being seen to be awarded, but much as I love the Jap bikes. There is one sweet taste when Ducati pulls off another David against Goliath act!

Where's the romance in yer Supervox? :smt118

I hate injustice !!

And when an Italian manufacturer is given preferential treatment by an Italian run company i tend to find that unfair !!

Are you aware that Flamin' Flammini is on record as having told Triumph that they could not race their 675 ". . . because we can't alter the rules to suit one manufacturer" :shock:

Erm, excuse me but isn't that EXACTLY what he does when Ducati ask him too ??

i am in favour of keeping the rules how they are now and i think a change would be a bad move for WSB and just create a ducati cup, BUT ducati are still running 20bhp less than the il4's they are only winning because the bike can put the power down better where as corser and co are spinning up everywhere and getting little traction. from that point of view i can see there argument :wink:
as for cost ducati are still a small company compared to the big japs who have pots of money!

Yep I was aware of that and its one rule for Ducati and one rule for Triumph and I dont think thats particularly fair either.

Its not like Ducati dont have the option to make a V4 road bike either. They have just said that they arent gonig to homolgate the GP replica road bike for WSB. Surely that woudl be a way out of their problems with the twin. But no they dont want to do it.

Flamin' Flammini mmmm italian :roll: ducati mmmm italian :roll: i just dont get it? :wink:

I also thought it a terrible shame that the 675 was not allowed to run in the Supersport class,I was really looking forward to it kicking Jap ass.

I do not disagree with anyone that screams against favouritism or unfairness. However what no-one should forget is the WSB championship would be devalued far more by Ducati stepping down than any other factory.

This is not my bias....they simply bring a certain something to the party that simply cannot be replicated by any team with a Japanese machine. It is all ballox but it is those little elements of the exotic, glamour etc, just like it is in Moto GP.

They might not always have the best bikes or riders but there are more devout and impartial fans that want to see them mixing it with the big boys than anything else.

Unlike where many people have a favourite rider and will stick with him no matter what he is riding, with Ducati the fans are with the machine first, the pilot second. It is a very subtle difference but a very important one. 8)

Personally I would rather see WSB without Ducati than without all (or even some) of the Japanese teams.

As has been mentioned in this thread before, WSB has only just recovered from the 'Ducati Cup' debacle that it became when the Japanese teams pulled out before.

Also, changing tack here slightly - despite what the factory would have us believe about needing to be competetive & winning races to sell bikes & stay in business, I don't believe that Ducati sell many more bikes on the back of their WSB or BSB success; product loyalty is one of the company's greatest asets - people either love 'em or hate 'em !!

Supervox...I am beginning to think that you are simply bitter and twisted! If you did not have those bairns of ylurs you too could have a Ducati. Dont blame them for your situation! :smt117

I cannot believe the amount of obstinance and bloody mindedness over the last 20 odd posts.

It is REALLY simple folks.

Currently: Twins and triples are allowed to tune their engines to a higher state to make them more competetive with an il4 of the same capacity. As any one of us who has modified their bike at all realise, this can be expensive. Multiply this exponentially for the twin and triple teams. Why are these dispensations permitted? Because the volumetric efficiency of the il4 is greater than the twins & triples therefore allowing them to produce more outright hp.

Proposed: As Fizz has already outlined. This is to bring the costs down to at least be comparable to the il4 teams.

People, the 'why don't they just build a 4 cyl then?' bleats are boring and very narrow-minded. Why don't they? Because they don't build them in the first place and for some manyfacturers the engine configuration is part of their corporate identity that's why, think Triumph, Ducati, MotoGuzzi, Aprilia and KTM (yes remember KTM is another pushing for the 1200cc rule).

In Australia we have limited tuning permitted in the SBK class. There are no capacity compensations and all are limited to the same state of tune. The result? Well things are cheaper for people to race but there is not a single twin or triple racing. Everything is an il4 from one of the main Japanese factories. This allows reasonably close racing but also makes it boring as there is only one configuration of bike out there.

Open your minds, put your prejudices aside and look at the facts before shooting your mouth off.

PS - They should have allowed Triumph to race the 675 IMHO.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

mat maladin chooses to race in the USA :wink:

I wonder why :wink:

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Ducati do build a 4-cylinder bike.

They did consider a V-twin for MotoGP and quickly realised it was a no-hoper. So went V-4 instead. The rules there obviously not favouring twins.

What there should be is a rule in stone saying exactly what is required. if you can't match it then don't play. Since Ducati are doing so well in WSB and BSB, they are just taking the michael.

Peter M

Do you REALLY believe that if they are granted a 200cc engine size hike Ducati will spend any less money on their racing ??

If you do then I would suggest that you really are taking a SIMPLE view !! :P

I read in a mag that due to sponsorship and stuff, Ducati only pay 10% of MotoGP budget. So they ain't spending much considering the overall cost.

Excuse me for not answering you before my previous post !!

The only Ducati I would ever consider owning (& then only if a serious lottery win made money no object) would be a 916.

Not to ride you understand because I can never get over the fact that they sound as if someone's left a bag of bolts hidden somewhere !!

No, just to look at because it is an icon - simply one of the most beautiful bikes ever created.

Typically Italian - form over function !!

:) I have to say that the die hard Ducati fans accuse others who oppose the rules bent as being narrow minded :shock: and say that ducati needs help to stop it being boring, surely they can see it is equally boring if it is a Ducati walkover every year, and that when they start to struggle the italian organisers change the rules to allow them to dominate again. :shock:

I am sure there is an easier way to make the bikes more level, ie weight penalties for the inline 4's. Only if they then start to dominate the wins should the rules be changed. :?
Chog 8)

What I am saying is that any manufacturer that does not wish to run an il4 engine configuration (Lets not just have this as a Ducati bashing exercise shall we?) do not HAVE to spend large amounts of money modifying their ROAD bikes to produce competative hp. If they choose to take the view that they are going to spend that money saved on other things within the team then care schmere, they can have 6 ply toilet paper and a harem if they want.

Lets be perfectly clear about the distinction between MotoGP and SBK. It is bleedingly obvious that one is for protype machinery that you can't purchase from you local dealer, the other is for road based machinery. Carrying on about what manufacturers do in MotoGP is pointless and off topic.

One of the beauties of production based racing is seeing how each manufacturer approaches the challenge with their take on motorcycling. This is interesting stuff and helps make this racing better for the fans and those of us buying bikes from the shop.