Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

PMSL :lol:

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

LMAO no i dont work for the daily comic, lol,
it just seems as if you are banding anyone new who owns a SS in to there own stereotype.. that they almost dont deserve it because they are new?

Now fair weather riders IMO are different, in a sense that they dont like getting cold or wet, and really love a clean bike. . that in its self is preferance of the rider

a weekend warrior IMO is a cocky rich bloke who bought SS thou or similar to boast to his friends.. talks down to the likes of SV650 riders like me (and us)
and is reckless eager to impress and has S**T for brains on a bike.
i dont know you but it sounds like you have your head screwed on and not a WW, i can without a doubt see your point

as for my mate lol,
trust me lol, i mean never! he could be an examiner im sure of it lol,

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

Harsh but fair IMO.

I am a middle-aged newbie. The way I looked at my own desire to own a bike was that I know I have a penchant for speed (in a car), and owning a SS600 would probably be either licence-losing, or fatal. Either through my own stupidity or my lack of experience.

I also didn't have an unlimited budget, and wanted to get the best "starter" bike for the money (cheap to buy, cheap to run - if you remember to put oil in the damn thing :oops: - and cheap to insure). I'm also a slightly built fella and so I didn't want anything too heavy. The SV is light. So on all categories it came out top for me :) Even if I had the money I STILL wouldn't have gone and bought a SS600.

At the end of the day, you only REALLY start to learn to ride once you've passed your test. And my opinion is that you don't LEARN to drive in a Supercar, so why learn to ride on a SS600?

Personally, I'd rather learn to ride safely, comfortably, and learn my lessons on the SV so that WHEN I decide to go down the SS600 (or bigger) route, I feel better prepared to handle such a bike.

However, in the meantime, I'm having far too much fun learning as much as I can on the SV :-P

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

In reality what makes someone a weekend warrior?

I ride to uni/around for the most part on my bike, but i do most of my more intense riding at the weekend. Unless tonyk is holding one of his infamous mid-week rideouts. :)
I don't usually wear full leathers unless its the weekend either.

Just because i ride during the week, doesn't automatically make me a better rider than someone to whom motorbikes are just a pastime. As the weather improves there will be an increase of bikers on the roads. The vast majority don't misbehave any more than you or i.

Finally lets explode this myth that a "weekend warrior' has to be rich. For ?10k you can get a new litre sportsbike, with some trick bits, so they're hardly unaffordable. You don't even need the cash these days, as credit is so available.

In summary, sure some weekend riders drive like idiots, but then again i see similar behaviour from all weather riders.

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

repost
this is my take on it

a weekend warrior IMO is a cocky rich bloke who bought SS thou or similar to boast to his friends.. talks down to the likes of SV650 riders like me (and us)
and is reckless eager to impress and has S**T for brains on a bike.

thats how i seeit any how, which is not someone who rides at the weekend, although the name suggests it lol,

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

I'm not jealous, I just dont get why anyone would want to buy a big bike without the confidence!

I could go out and buy a 1098 tomorrow if I wanted to, but I dont because I'm happy with my SV, which I'll use mostly for commuting.

But I guess at the same time there are some bandit biker training places out there that will merely teach you to be a drone and pass your test - the place I did mine the guy was always going on about throttle control and such like. I wouldnt even consider going around a corner with a dipped clutch.

I was originally looking at the bike thinking, "nice bike mate..." Then I saw him dip the clutch, and go round the roundabout... I grimaced before he lost it, and was thankful he didnt drop it... Like I said - I hope he learned his lesson!

If anyone wants to buy a big bike immediately after passing their test, good on them... but I think its unwise without some road experience first!

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

I was having a similar conversation with a colleague of mine a while back...

We were saying that me and him have both had rather bad accidents which have altered the way we think on the road, and for the better too.

I feel more confident now... and I hate to see it when I see a little angry bee whizz past me, only to be followed by some guys on their bikes who are driving fast to "save face". I saw this happen after the year before lasts BSB at silverstone, when a couple of angry bee's took a blind corner and almost hit a car coming in the opposite direction - immediately followed by 2 or 3 bikes.

Now, I couldnt care less what they do... but if any of them had hit the car, they would have taken me out too... and to me thats selfish and ignorant.

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

There was a fella at my old base who wanted to learnt ride cos of his friends had big bikes ZX-9R and the like and he wanted to pass his test and get a big bike 600 Supersports+. I told him to get an SV650 like me but he wouldnt have it, guess they arnt cool enough.

He said he could handle a big bike, dont ask me where he got this idea from, I have no idea.

Funny story Claire :D

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

Maybe so, but dipping a clutch to go round a roundabout, means he has little or no speed control, loosing the front could have been a consequence of wet slippy road or diesel, but the clutch dip says to me novice rider or no confidence.

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

Yes that very true, but that goes for all riding if if want to be any good.

I could quite easily go out buy almost anything in the 600/750 range if I really wanted to but have no desire (fact is i have other plans) But I don't want one right now I want to learn my SV first I know for fact my bike has more to give and I have yet to ride it to its full potential so why do I need something faster and more powerful? I want to learn skill first, thats what make you a fast rider not the bike, that goes for anything to do with bikes.

I am very unimpressed by idiots on fast bikes, becasue they don't help us at all and upset the wrong people, which is not what any of us want. The guys at the ace last w/end pulling wheelies down the road outside, why not do it somwhere you can't get caught? I know plenty of places that are quite where that can be out of site. (yes I know why they do it there)

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

I spent two years of everyday all weather riding on my SV before I got my GSXR, I reckon you'll get alot more out a bigger bike by putting in time on your SV before moving onto something else. You'll be a confident rider and you'll be able to get much more from a bigger bike, no matter what people say about it, IMHO the SV really does teach you how to ride and more importantly the art of throttle control.

I definately think the time I spent on my SV before I moved on was well spent.

Like I said before though its idiots on everytype of bike that give us a bad name, you dont have to ride a GSXR thou to ride like a pratt...

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

Hmm, not sure you've earnt anything by passing DAS other than a pass certificate. You can do a lot of damage with a bike license yet you can get one in 4 days training. Judge that against some other things that require you pass some kind of test or exam(s). A degree for instance, 4 years, not 4 days, that is something that has to be earned (even if thats getting easier too :rolleyes:).

Anyway, throttle control, leads nicely into the next quote....

No most folk wouldn't give their 17 year old a Ferrari, nor a Fireblade for that matter. But why not give a 40 year old DAS "graduate" a Fireblade? Have never ridden one but all the mags say they are are a light and manageable chassis and they only go as fast as you twist the throttle. I think there are valid arguments for and against...

If the person has the maturity and self control not to ride outside of their ability why shouldn't they have a litre sportsbike? This isn't always related to age mind you, I have a 40 year work colleague who wants to pass his DAS this year and has his eyes on a new fireblade. His wife also works in the same office and I've told her to get the anchors on him or start planning his funeral. He's a nut job and he only wants a fireblade 'cos it's the quickest bike he can get that wins all the magazine group tests. Mention bikes and speed in the same sentence and the guys grin is uncontrollable. I refuse to take him pillion 'cos he openly admits that he wants me to go as fast as possible.

The flip side of the argument is even when a person does have the necessary self control , they don't have the necessary experience and hence judgement to see a bad situation developing. A litre sportsbike has the POTENTIAL to get you into big trouble unintentionally. This is statisticallly proven and it's one of the reasons why insurance for a DAS "graduate" with no no claims is three times more for a fireblade than for an SV. The majority of bike accidents are loss of control on a country road. Whichever way you cut it that accident is more likely to happen on a fireblade with a inexperienced rider than on a 70bhp SV. The potential for entering a corner faster than you were expecting and standing the bike upright, overwhelming the rear grip, possibly followed by a highside, tankslappers, etc are all greater with a litre sportsbike and in the hands of a novice unlikely to be controllable/recoverable.

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

And bloody quickly to and I've only got a 750 and I was amazed at just how quickly the thing takes off, its really deceptive the first few times I looked down and had to do a double take at the speedo and I had 3 years riding experience under my belt by the time I got my GSXR, I've had it two years nearly and the thing still amazes me at how quickly it accelerates.

I damn well know that if I had got one after I passed my DAS, I'd have written the bike off, bust myself up badly or I'd be dead. I just didnt have the skills or the self restraint after I passed my DAS.

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

As said above its the corners/bends in the road that seem casue problems, I have learnt very quickly to look through bends advanced vision is a must, when I drop mine somethind distracts me, thats when it can go wrong.

Target fixation and I can't think of the name, but its when you spend your time dealing with a simple problem, rather than dealing with the entire situation Is what casuse things go wrong.....I try to picture the lines I will take plan them, but I tend to think of serval lines at once when I get in the zone so if that one doesn't work I have another to fall back on ect, don't know how to explain what goes on but I just need more praticse, how long till summer:cool:

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

Whats the new limit when the new test comes in? Its a power limit isnt it? I havent really took much notice as Ive been telling everyone to get their test passed before November.

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

Think I possibly agree that you learn more if you start out on a small bike for a bit. Conservation of momentum thing - still to each there own - dipping the clutch on a gsxr1000 on a roundabout can't be anymore risky than doing the same on a CB250.

How 'bout some sort of personality test?
"Just got your license sir? Just fill in this questionaire - hmm I see you border 'bit of a tit' and 'Adrenaline junkie' I'm afraid that limits you to-" :albino:

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

But a CB250 isn't likely to plant you in a wall at 140mph

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

Neither is a GSXR if you're dipping a clutch tottering around a roundabout...

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

No but that's not the point of the conversation, a new rider flopping a gixxer onto a roundabout is amusing, but if so useless at basic control how bad would he be at higher speeds?

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

My offs that caused injury were all at < 10mph

One broken collar bone and little finger and a dislocated thumb resulting.

When it comes down to it, I thought that the DAS then onto a 'Busa option was dumb before I got my License, I still do to a large degree, but surely its down to an individuals CHOICE and the FREEDOM of that choice.

Gov.uk seems to be trying to make it impossible to do anything these days - lets stop knife crime by banning knives (I have 3 expensive Leatherman Multi-tools that I dont dare carry anymore) instead of looking at WHY people carry knives and dealing with the cause rather than the symptom.

Should someone pass a DAS then ride out of the test center on a Hayabusa?

No

Should they be allowed to do it

Yes

Simple really

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

+ 1 totaly agree that people should have the choice

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

My Gixer thou was bought by me as physiotherapy for my brain after I'd suffered a mild stroke. Sounds stupid but it worked.

When I had the stroke I owned a ZX-9R, it was a really forgiving and capable bike but too easy to ride fast. I needed something that made me think, and think fast. What better bike than a Gixer thou.

I bought my bike off a mate who lived in Holywood just outside Belfast, my only real option was to fly there to collect it and ride back. It took a couple of weeks for my doctor to sign me as fit to fly, I daren't tell him why I needed to go to Belfast so urgently. Anyway, bike collected, paid for and I'm shown the route I need to Dublin for the ferry - off I go.

Have you ever been so scared of a bike that you need to stop in a layby to gather your thoughts and calm down? I'd been riding 27 odd years when I bought that bike and nothing had ever really scared me (except a nitrous Z1R in 1982). Before I got on the motorway to Dublin I'd stopped twice, both times shaking like a leaf. By the time I got to the ferry port I was a nervous wreck and slept the entire crossing. Off the boat and a short ride to a mate's house just outside Llandudno. There he calmed me down, made me dinner and suggested he rode the bike back to my gaff near Bedford with me as pillion and then him take a train back home. I refused his offer saying I needed to get my head together, stubborn I know. It took me about 5 hours to get home from his place, by which time I was physically and mentally exhausted and almost in tears. I must have been riding like a complete noob all the way home.

When I finally woke up the next day I was full of thoughts of selling the bike, it was evil., but I was talked into giving it a go by my housemate. I got better fairly quickly by telling myself that if I didn't learn to ride it I was going to die on it.

Point of my story is, not everyone riding shakily is a complete newbie, some people are recovering from illness and some are getting used to a completely different bike to the one they owned before. Could be that the owner of that Gixer had graduated from a Dullville or similar after seeing the light... or he could just as easily have been a complete moron with all the gear and no idea - we'll probably never know.

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

Yeah that's about my thoughts on the matter too.

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

Yep, well summed up Soulkiss

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

I apologise if this has been said but I haven't read every post.
Having ridden many bikes and quite a few new ones since I was 16 over 34yrs ago.You have to get used to any bike especially as you mention 'on his new GSXR1000'.There could be any number of factors that could have caused said incident.Unfortunately some people have more to learn than others.No one was born with these skills.His style of riding could of been he's just realised he's not in control of the bike.I think judging someone from one short observation is a bit harsh.Whatever the circumstances.

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

no i would say you have earnt the right to ride what you like, you have paid your money to be taught how to ride,yes belive it or not some schools teach that rather than just to pass. Most people on here must have been taught on a learn at home type thing then as they reckon you are taught to pass. Where as i was taught things like counter steering and cornering while out on rides with my instructor.

Why have you or anyone on here earnt the right to ride an SV but because someone better off and who can afford to get a GSXR hassent earnt it?? Is it because you all reckon you should have small bikes to start. If that is the case has anyone argued the case for EVERYONE to be restriccted to 33BHP for two years no!!

70BHP wil top a ton ans put you in a wall just as easilly as 150BHP will. and i would argue its eaiser to tie the SV in knotts than the latest sports bike with beter handaling and brakes!

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

He's right you know

Possibly, I'd argue that its much much easier to get into trouble due to speed and corner approach speed on a GSXR Thou, also it was the brakes and handling that I found took just as much getting used to as the throttle when I got my 750. I had to ride in a different way, and it took time to get used to it, so I supposed you could say that without the SV experience I'd have had no pre-conceived ideas as to how to ride and I could have started from scratch...

I do agree though, DAS gives you the right to buy and ride what you like, whether you should or not is a different matter and thats down to each individual to make that choice isnt it.

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

loved that, what a great story i could imagine it now! saying that my friend bought gsxr 600 for his first bike but that is off the scale :D

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

yes but if i get into a corner a bit to quick on the ZX i know i can virtually throw it on its side and it will stay balck hoops down , and get around beter than the SV would have.

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

True but that takes confidence and experience to know that and to know what to do in that kind of situation. Which you've obviously already got.

You reckon after 1 x CBT and then 4 x days DAS tuition you'd be able to do that if your first bike is a GSXR Thou and you approach a corner on a road you dont know and warp speed because your brain is not accustomed to doing said warp speed as the fastest thing you've previously ridden is the training schools GS500.

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

You've paid your money and are entitled to ride what you like, but did you earn anything? Not in my book anyway. Earning for me always requires effort, not just cash and a few days riding. I didn't say that DAS earned you the right to ride an SV.

I only did DAS to "get legal" after a long spell away from biking so for me it was really 4 days of going through DSA technicalities in town and having fun thrashing the 500's round country lanes with the instructor. I did about 30K miles in the first two years on 50 and 125cc bikes, before moving to bigger things (albeit I kind of forgot to take the test at the time, young and foolish :rolleyes:). I'm an advocate of doing it the hard way and putting the mileage in. A complete newbie doing DAS and jumping on an SV isn't a great idea in my book.

Maybe you were quite lucky with your DAS instructor/company. When you say "taught cornering" did he go through braking before bends, setting a positive throttle and all that kind of stuff? I haven't spoken to anyone who's done DAS for whom open road riding techniques were covered.

Yes, the SV can do 130mph, and can easily put you in a wall at 100, but it doesn't do it "as easily" as a gixxer thou. What I mean by this is that you are much less likely to look down at the clocks on an SV and get a fright as Fizz has described with his 750. You exit a corner and give it beans on a gixxer and the bike is capable of accelerating to double the speed before the next corner, that the SV is capable of. The gixxer is capable of getting you into the kind of situations, tankslappers, highsides, that just wouldn't arise on the SV under the same conditions 'cos the power isn't there to run away with you as easily.

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

I think its is practically all we did - specifically taught it in the u-turn, which I imagine is the idea for learning throttle-setting and cornering. And judging speed into a corner is another thing that my instructor went through...

He also talked about maintaining speed into a corner by using counter-steering, something that I use all the time since passing my DAS!

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

my DAS company whilst very good, didnt teach any of that stuff. I got taught to pass a test not how to ride, there is IMHO a big difference between the two things. I had to learn it myself, luckily I didnt learn the hard way, but thats only because I spent 10 months on a 125 before I got my SV and I made all my stupid mistakes on a little bike which wasnt very fast and easy to catch if I did do something stupid which I did.

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

I was taught open road riding around the Yorkshire Dales and N. Yorkshire Moors as part of my DAS. We did 200+ mile days with at least two hours town work each day. Was hard work but worth it. There were less thorough schools about, but you make your choice on quality of instruction etc when choosing your school.

Not all are 'pass factories'.


PS It was the instructors at this school who hammered into us to wear good gear to, my instructor came along and helped me choose my first leathers. These guys were bikers.

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

What utter crap, I have read in this thread, it is so annoying. The landlady of my local, her first bike R1, her husbands first bike R6. She has now been riding it for 2 years and stayed upright. Her husband on the R6 only lasted 30 miles.

This weekend worrier has been riding for 30 years. I ride when the sun shines for fun not because I have to. Like many I avoid town/city centres and ride the country lanes. so perhaps I may not be the fastest filterer or use the smoothest line round a roundabout.

I get the feeling that some of you bitch about new riders/ big bikes etc out of jealousy. you wish you could have one but either can't afford it or mummy wont let you.


WTF does it matter what your ride, how long you have been riding, what perverse pleasure do you get from endangering yourself/some other rider just to be able to say I spanked the **** of the newbie on a gixxer.

Get over it people. There is no difference with new drivers out in mummy/daddies car and you in your clapped out shed. We should be encouraging more people onto two wheels, not then ridiculing them whilst they develop their skills

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

well said that man! i get the impression that some on here are like that!!

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

I know plenty of bikers who ride solely for recreation and won't go out in anything less than ideal conditions, but they're not all particularly bad riders. I think when people mock the weekend power ranger on a sportsbike, it's partly out of annoyance towards the maniacs who irresponsibly overtake cars at 150 down lanes where 100 would be pushing your luck and then stick their bike in the hedge and coof it. These people are the main reason biking is perceived as so dangerous and all of us who ride have to take so much pressure from our non-riding family/friends and why the police bloody hate us when we ride at weekends, not to mention the higher insurance premiums we have to pay.

I also completely understand how people gain amusement from shaming people on bigger/faster bikes. I still chuckle every time I think of me and mogs overtaking a chap on a Aprillia RSV-R (factory version too!) when he had a 5 minute head start on us. He was probably having fun wobbling along, but that doesn't stop me being amused by how much quicker we were than him on his vastly better bike. The chap doesn't know what we think about the incident (probably doesn't even remember it- I suspect he gets overtaken all the time!), so I don't think it'd put him off riding. I think people like mocking riders like this as it makes them feel better about their own riding, I'm sure the chap who overtook me on a CB500 the other week (to my mind by filtering dangerously at high speeds on narrowed lanes, but he probably does it all the time and thinks it's fine) feels good about "beating" someone on a faster bike (not that I feel much like racing on the public roads after a 450 mile trip). It doesn't detract from my enjoyment of riding/make me feel worse about myself, so what harm does it do?

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

for the record i gave my personal idea on what a weekend warrior was..
does any one agree with me? in the sense that it is the guys a trackdays and meets who as you say get there rocks off beating noobs, but wouldnt have a hope in hell against an expirenced rider.. all gear no idea.. "my bike is faster than yours" "i always do over 100mph"... "im an idiot" etc etc..

+1 for the rest of your post.. id would of had a thou if could afford it for my first bike

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

i jumped on an Sv straight after a DAS. Before that I rode around on a 125 cruiser. The Sv was very difficult for me at first...in fact on one hairpin, left hand, downhill bend I plonked it on its sidestand, stalled it (on purpose)and sat on the opposite side of the bend til Im Indoors came back up the hill and rode it down the hill for me.
It was completely alien for me, I've done my fair share of guff ups over the years. But if you compare my old head on a birds shoulders, to young head on blokes shoulders......god i can see you all jumping to stone me.....in my 4 years of riding I have dropped my bike once, a few times nearly, no points for speeding...blah blah blah.
Now compare to Im Indoors, who, has ridden for ten years...but... in his first few has crashed and bashed himself more times than i can write about. He in his infinite blokedom has always chosen the most stupid bikes to ride, and paid the price. His first big bike was an RD500...for you experts of 80's bikes know well its reputation....he wanted it and well it spat him off and ate him for breakfast. As his experience has grown so has his taste for mental bikes. Take the Raptor1000, he claims its a pussycat, well it would be because of his overall bike experience....now give it to a newly passed DAS bloke and he'd get thrown off and eaten for dinner.
I've never ridden any of his bikes, when I passed I could of had the choice of two or three of his RD's, Sv's etc, but I didn't have anyone to impress did I???? If I'd have wanted I could have been goaded into jumping on Elsie just to show him 'I wasn't scared'. Nope I'm not a bloke with bloky friends egging me on. So I got a girls bike....which incidently half of you ride
Sorry to get all lady on you all, but the gixxer thing and the romper suit newby, is really usually a bloke, with blokey friends blah, blah, blah. You ride the bike you want to suit yourself not to suit others, I can't understand why these blokes go and buy bikes that are clearly out of their headrange


now discuss if you will, no doubt you'll all rip me to shreds

Re: New Riders and Big Bikes?
 

simlpy because they WANT to AND can AFFORD to.