Fuel pump not arming
 

Got Kates bike out yesterday to do some bits and bobs to it and it wouldn't start. Thought it was probably down to dead fuel as it's been parked up since January so filled it up. Yesterday afternoon I noticed that the fuel pump wasn't actually arming. I now have 4 probable causes:

1. Datatool System 3 - I think this immobilises the fuel pump in which case it is my No1. suspect

2. Tilt switch - It's possible this has gone kaput but I doubt it.

3. Sidestand switch - Also possible but unlikely.

4. Fuel pump - Again, this is possible but I think it's the least likely.

So. How do I test/bypass each of the above causes so that I can fix the problem?

Regards

Re: Fuel pump not arming
 

alarm and or battery.

Re: Fuel pump not arming
 

Battery is fine as it turned over for many minutes before dying. I keep all my bikes on Optimates!

Just want to know how to test and/or bypass the things mentioned above.

Regards

Re: Fuel pump not arming
 

its pretty guaranteed that the alarm is to blame as it will have gone into sleep mode. before you go any further go and read the alarm manual to see how to get it out of sleep mode.

I had to replace my pump due to dead fuel. Gummed it up. Sealed unit. So no repair would fix it. Test the connector under the seat that supplies it. That will tell you straight off. Theres a test process in the engineers manual.

Re: Fuel pump not arming
 

Doesnt the alarm normally stop the starter motor too?

Re: Fuel pump not arming
 

Alarm isn't in sleep mode as I usually just set it off then disarm it to get it out. All is firing up, it is just not allowing the fuel pump to prime.

The alarm immobilises the fuel pump and the starter motor but 1 circuit can fail without the other if the alarm is fudged!

I doubt it's anything other than the alarm as I had the bike out and started a couple months ago and everything was fine!

Re: Fuel pump not arming
 

i don't think setting the alarm off and disarming takes it out of sleep mode and will go back to sleep mode unless the ignition is activated. but i could be wrong. i'm pretty sure you have to disarm the sleep mode using a set sequence.

Re: Fuel pump not arming
 

Had it parked up a lot longer than 2 months without it going into sleep mode. Also, if it was in sleep mode, the starter would still be immobilised.

Anywho, I have just opened up the alarm and jumped out the fuel pump immobilisation circuit and it still isn't starting. Just about to break out a multimeter to see if I can trace the fault. Does anyone know where the tilt sensor is located on the sv and how I can bypass it or test it?

Regards

Re: Fuel pump not arming
 

To get it out of sleep mode, you have to turn the ignition on, then turn the alarm off using the fob. This is the same with both Kates system 3 and my accumen alarm.

Regards

Re: Fuel pump not arming
 

Right...just tested the fuel pump connector. Yellow/Black wire has 11.7v Yellow/Red wire has 0.08v does this sound about right or should the Yellow/Red wire have more voltage for the pump to prime?

Regards
Phil

Re: Fuel pump not arming
 

Right, I think I have ruled out the alarm. I just took it apart again and tested the in and out voltages for the 2 immobilisation circuits. Whatever is being fed in is fed out. 11.7v for the fuel pump and 0.8v for the starter (couldn't test it properly as couldn't hold the multimeter and start it at the same time). So I now seem to have ruled out the fuel pump and the alarm which leaves me with the tilt sensor I think?

Just to clarify clutch, kill and sidestand switch all function as they should.

Anyone have anything else I should look for or tell me where the Yellow/Red wire from the fuel pump runs to?

Regards

Re: Fuel pump not arming
 

Is there any way I can manually fire up the fuel pump?

Re: Fuel pump not arming
 

Dealer mode reports no faults!

Re: Fuel pump not arming
 

The pump is suspect, to make certain apply 12V to the pump, if it doesn't spin this will be confirmed. The dealer mode is not capable of showing a code shown for this.

I've diagnosed the same fault a couple of times, both have been after sitting unused for a while.

I'm struggling to understand why the alarm was ever suspect.

Re: Fuel pump not arming
 

It's usually the alarms fault when bikes don't start!

Which wire do I need to run 12v to? There are 3 wires to the fuel pump, an earth and 2 other wires. What are these for?

I thought the Yellow/Red wire was to prime the fuel pump? This one has no voltage on it when the ignition is on. The Yellow/Black wire has 12v, what is this one for?

The bike has only be sat for 2 months since the last time it was used!

Cheers for your help Sid.

Re: Fuel pump not arming
 

Incidentally...does anyone know if the K5 gixer fuel pump is the same? I have one of these in the cellar if it does!

Regards

Re: Fuel pump not arming
 

Check the fuses. I had my SV cut out on me coming off of a slip road and the symptoms after that happened sound similar to yours. Just worth checking them if you haven't already :)

Re: Fuel pump not arming
 

Right, after reading a thread on svrider.com I have found out how to properly test the fuel pump. The 11.7v was for the fuel level indicator, the other wire was for the fuel pump. This is only live for a short time after the ignition is turned on. This showed over 12v when the ignition is turned on, so now I know the fuel pump is knacked. Apparently someone on svrider brought theirs back from the dead with some carb cleaner or easi start so I will read up on that thread before I try the same. Barring that, it will be a second hand pump from ebay unless the GSXR on fits!

Regards

Re: Fuel pump not arming
 

if you think its the pump try disconnecting the fuel hose at TB end put in a container then connect a 12v feed to the pump and see if it actually pumps petrol out.

Re: Fuel pump not arming
 

If it's not priming when I have confirmed power to the plug, it can only be the pump at fault, either because it is gummed up or because it is blocked.

I will remove it from the bike tomorrow and clean it with carb cleaner to try to free it up. Then I will flush it through with fuel to try to avoid damaging the internals with the carb cleaner!

Re: Fuel pump not arming
 

did you use the return path on the plug as an earth or the frame/battery?

Re: Fuel pump not arming
 

Both, same results both times!

Re: Fuel pump not arming
 

cool. i know i'm being awkward but it's best to chase every avenue before stripping anything off a bike when it might be something else.

Re: Fuel pump not arming
 

I know, I'm slightly annoyed that I stripped the whole back end to have a dig at the alarm!

Re: Fuel pump not arming
 

:confused:

Now I'm really confused. Of the myriad reasons there are for a non-functioning motorcycle an alarm is just one possibility, and far far from the most common.

The alarm seemingly worked perfectly, disarmed when you wanted it to, the bike switched on and turned over when you pressed the button, at what stage was the alarm doing anything other than it should have?
Despite the assertion, bike alarms are rarely connected directly to the fuel pump, on dual circuit immobilisers, (as Datatools are), one circuit cuts the starter circuit and the other the ignition or the ignition/fuel injection system. Of course this may also disable the fuel pump as part of a fuel injection system but it would be apparent as none of the electronics would function, not just the pump.

I still can't see what prompted the suggestion of alarm failure.

Def datatool alarm.

When I sold my sv with the exact same alarm, my mate had it sat for a little while and it generated this exact fault.

We tinkered with it and got it going but a couple of weeks later when he sold it, it did it all over again!

Daddyjob bought this bike and removed the alarm and as far as I'm aware didn't get this problem again which must be almost a year ago now. Give him a PM

Re: Fuel pump not arming
 

Well the alarm has always had little niggles like going off for no reason immediately after arming and beeping 3 times in service mode (which indicates a possible hot wire or ignition activation, when in actual fact, neither of these things have happened) so it is not beyond the realms of possibility that the alarm has started to go faulty. Modern electronics aren't built to the same standard as electronics of yesteryear.

I know that alarms like the datatool have 2 immobilisation circuits, 1 being starter (which was working) the other (as stated in the fitting instructions I believe, as well as many on-line resources) is the fuel pump. The bike was started 2 months ago so unlikely to be dead fuel so therefore unlikely to be the fuel pump. With the amount of problems people I know have had with alarms, that seemed the most logical fault. Once this was discounted, I moved to the next logical fault...the fuel pump. Then I had to find out how this circuit worked so that I could test it.

Sid, I know your an electrical genius, I however am not. I'm ok at them but no expert. Also, as you have deal with this type of problem before, you already have experience of it, whereas this is the first time I have dealt with this type of fault, I shall be better informed next time. :)

Re: Fuel pump not arming
 

Stu...defo not the Datatool...defo fuel pump!

Re: Fuel pump not arming
 

There's a good chance the K5 GSXR one will fit, think someone like D'Ecosse or GrahamB or someone else who is wise in the ways of science was using one.

They're annoying bags of sh*t that break all the time.

Re: Fuel pump not arming
 

That'll be great if it does, will save me £50 and the risk of getting a dud from ebay!

Re: Fuel pump not arming
 

We differ here obviously, but whatever you think it quite clearly hadn't put an electron wrong, and despite this it was suggested and accepted as a possible problem despite all the evidence, and Phil was prompted to disassemble the rear end of his bike for sod all.

Re: Fuel pump not arming
 

I've spent all week dissembling 3 bikes for no reason other than unneeded fettling so I'm not that put out by it, plus I got to learn about the workings of the alarm and what each wire does for future reference!

No on to disassembling the fuel pump to try to make it work before I swap in the gixer one!

Regards

Re: Fuel pump not arming
 

Well, the problem has sorted itself out now! I basled the ignition on and off about 20 times this morning and nothing. Decided to clean out the pump this afternoon but thought I'd check the ignition again and hey presto, the fuel pump primed. Fired up first time too so I now don't need to strip anymore of the bike down. Rebuilt the bike and took it for a spin and it's running sweet as, although it has managed to get stuck in gear now, but that's a problem for another thread!

Cheers all for their help, no matter how useful or useless it was!

Regards

Re: Fuel pump not arming
 

Just an update in this.

The problem has manifested itself once again as the bike has been parked up for a couple of years. This time I decided to bite the bullet and remove the pump.

My plan was to give it a clean up in my parts cleaner and try to flush it somehow. Once I removed it though I have found the problem. One of the ring connectors (the one on the black wire that mounts half way up the pump) has rotted, leaving a loose wire.

I have a question. Is it okay just to use a normal metal ring connector and refit the pump, or should there be some kind of coating/special material for the connector?

Regards
Phil

Re: Fuel pump not arming
 

Normal connector will be fine.

Re: Fuel pump not arming
 

Cheers.

Re: Fuel pump not arming
 

I used a standard connector but it still didn't work. Then I found the other two connectors were corroded too so I replaced these...but it still didn't work.

I chopped it out for a GSXR pump I had spare and it now works. I will strip the pump down sometime soon to see if I can sort it out to keep for a spare.