Fortress Britain
 

The Labour 'Regime' has announced plans for 'Fortress Britain', a policy aimed on tightening security throughout Britain. This may be of particular interest to anyone who chooses not to watch 'I'm a celebrity...'...

The plans unveiled are to introduce scanning machines at 250 railways stations to scan bags for bombs; it does seem like a somewhat absurd measure as anyone planning a bombing could choose to board at any of the other 2000+ stations in Britain. I know these extremeists are lunatics but they are pretty effective at blowing things up I have to admit and I don't doubt it would take them long to figure out this loophole. I'll be happy for a 'check in time' to be included in my rail travel, and to pay for the whole process yes; the train network have been too quick and cheap for many years already, cheeky devils.

Gordon doesn't stop his deluded castle plans here, he also plans on tightening air travel to the point that he may aswell insist on travellers carry a 'Assport': a passport firmly shoved up your rectum -his proposals are so invasive:
53 pieces of information?! I filled in less paperwork to clear for arms manufacture! But if this increases our saftey on Britain I suppose it's priceless.... well almost, there's a small £1.3 billion initial cost. Gordon hasn't stated whether he'll be contributing to this yet. If only he read this forum so he could answer? but we all know that motorbikes are as welcome in London as Brazilians so I doubt it.

So with Britain safe Gordons now turned his hand to preventing terrorism from it's birth. He's kindly spending £400 million overseas educating students about Islam and even setting up a European Centre for Excellence for Islamic Studies. You have to wonder which rich Muslim helped Gordon with this desicion, after all for him to be stood intimately close to Gordons backside surely is a sin punishible by stoning to death under Shariah law.

Is this a serious proposal? We're being told to sacrifice our freedom and even at our financial expense? As long as we accept fundamentalists beliefs we will have terrorism, end of.

Re: Fortress Britain
 

Okay, I see what you're saying here in the first bit, but the racist claptrap at the end undermines your argument. Islam is not a fundamentalist religion. It is a religion that has fundamentalists in it, in the same way as Christianity or any of the other religions. In my opinion the best way to stop terrorism is not to demonise and therefore radicalise a whole generation of one of the largest religions on the planet, but to try to work with them to try to come to some form of compromise.

Re: Fortress Britain
 

It's the extremeists that are doing this. Britain has been more than accomodating towards their beliefs.

Islam is a fundamentalist religion entirely. You can not be of Muslim belief and live a non-muslim lifestlye, try that in the Middle East and you won't live another day.

Re: Fortress Britain
 

That's not why extremists are erm, extreme. It's more because of what happens in other countries, ie, our foreign policy. Some people say extremeists are brainwashed, but that's debatable really (who has proven that to be the case?).

Back to the point of the thread:

About the train station's, they have to start somewhere, surely? The scanning machines are expensive, so you can't expect a roll-out to every station immediately. I wouldn't expect a perfect solution straight away, but one to build on is better than nothing at all.

As for the costs at train stations, I haven't used a train in years, so I couldn't care.

About the electronic borders scheme, that's simple. There is talk of implementing a bio-metric style passport, so the information could easily be contained within there. Until that's implemented, a USB Flash drive doesn't take up much space in your luggage, and that could be handed to customs "Here you go, everything you need to know is on this, just plug it in & away you go."

Sorry, but where's the problem with all of this? The only problem I can see is that as a tax payer, it will be us that pay for it all.

But then, if it will help (not gurantee) secure safety for my kids, the price is always going to be negotiable.

Re: Fortress Britain
 

Passports already have RFID in them! They were quiet about that one ;)

The amount of information required is the type of information they'd look for if they were checking you out, reading you emails, checking your phone records. It's big brother gone mad for no obvious benefit. £2 billion could be spent so wisely in our country, or perhaps take the burden off the low earners.

Re: Fortress Britain
 

RFID is not enough to store the required information, and I for one, would complain under the Data Protection Act if all the information required was to be held in one central place, with the RFID tag being a key to search the DB on.

I can also gurantee that my passport doesn't have RFID, it's a couple of years old, and I used to work with RFID scanners quite a lot, if there was anything there, it'd of shown up & I'd of thought it odd to say the least.

Re: Fortress Britain
 

They're not hidden at all, there's a whole page with one one under clear plastic. They've even been cracked
http://www.bzangygroink.co.uk/wordpr...chips-cracked/

Re: Fortress Britain
 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it's not in use (I know it is). I said my passport doesn't have any RFID chips. Like I said, it's old (due for renewal next year probably).

That doesn't change the fact that RFID chips could not contain all the information, there's simply not enough storage space. Add a couple more pages, and perhaps. A better way to do it would be a SIM like chip, which can hold far more information, but requires electronic contact. Maybe this combined with RFID.

Re: Fortress Britain
 

I dont believe all this high tech surveillance will help prevent terrorism at all.It might help to discover who did it after the event,but suicide bombers wont care about that.What is needed is good old fashioned intelligence work,meticulous analysis and infiltration of the enemy,just like the methods used to undermine the IRA.
General surveillance technology is just an excuse to dominate the wider population,the vast majority of whom are no more likely to be terrorists than Sir Ian Blair.

Re: Fortress Britain
 

Why is it that the British poulation requires all the identification when in so many cases the terrorism invoves foreign nationals? Are we going to insist that every Tom, **** and Mohammed produces 53 seperate pieces of information? They have ID cards in Spain, it didn't stop the Madrid bombing.

Edit: The **** got rid of a name, how funny.

Re: Fortress Britain
 

Not really wanting to go down this road, but would like to make the point that if I came to your house and I disliked your wallpaper, I could still respect you as a person but have none for your taste. Why then must I respect a belief? I still respect the individual.

Re: Fortress Britain
 

I think we can all agree that no matter how much of this technology we employ to supposedly protect ourselves, you will not stop this terroism as you cant kill an Idea or fundamental belief. The main reason for all this is western interference in middle eastern affairs and not forgetting our backing of Israel. until we address this issue we will not solve the problem.

It is a real irony that the supposed free west is protecting the free west by taking away our freedom !

Re: Fortress Britain
 

Isn't that an extremist view?

Sweeping generalisation! There are extremists in Christianity as well but I hear no mention about them.

Once again a thread seems to descend to Muslim Bashing. Its not acceptable.

Islam is not the problem. Its a few people within the religion who are the problem. Just like its a few people in any organisation that can be a problem.

Extra security checks are a fact of life now. We just have to deal with it. How many years have we had the steel curtain in London for? Anyone complaining about it? Not any more, we got used to it just as we'll get used to the hightened security.

Re: Fortress Britain
 

thats because they dont go blowing people up

Re: Fortress Britain
 

To be a fundamentalist you have to believe in the fundamentals of a religion, ie believeing the word of the Koran and acting on it. Not only do Muslims fundamentally believe the Koran, but Shariah law enforces it. I don't see how that can not be a fundamentalist religion.

Re: Fortress Britain
 

Hovis quote: thats because they dont go blowing people up


Oklahoma? George 'Dubbya' Bush?

Re: Fortress Britain
 

Do all Christians believe and act on what is in the Bible?

Re: Fortress Britain
 

hehe. But God spoke to him and told him it was the right thing to do! ;)
Blair had the same thing.... :smt104

Re: Fortress Britain
 

Both of 'em are loonies!! :D

Re: Fortress Britain
 

Very good question. No they don't, but most Christians don't understand what their religion means. Islam is much much stricter in that matter and the Koran is deemed as Gods word not to be questioned.

Re: Fortress Britain
 

That's what the government is counting on, it's called conditioning, but that certainly doesn't make it right.

Quite frankly, I object to having large wadges of cash being routinely stolen from me by the government for them to spend on spying on me.

The government don't even know, asside from their own shamless desire to control us to the nth degree, why all this spying and security is necesary. They were following the 7/7 bombers and still failed to stop them. They want to increase detention too, yet as I understand no-ones yet been held up to the 28 day limit. What's the point?

Other than new and exciting ways to blow a few billion quid, what's any of this actually supposed to achieve? They're too incompetant to impliment their existing powers when necessary, and abuse their powers when they aren't.

Re: Fortress Britain
 

And the Old Testament is...?

Re: Fortress Britain
 

George W Bush: http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pre.../06/bush.shtml

Our foreign policy is to blame, but religion and belief plays a role in that policy. George W Bush is a United Methodist and talked to god (see the link above). Tony Blair prayed about his decision to go to war, is prepared to be judged by god and is allegedly converting to Catholicism. Is it right to have people in such powerful positions with such strong beliefs? I don't think so, religion and politics should be kept entirely separate.

If I talk to god I'm praying, if he talks to me, I'm crazy.

Re: Fortress Britain
 

Very true!! :D

Re: Fortress Britain
 

Fiction

;)

Re: Fortress Britain
 

How do you solve a problem like Sharia?

Re: Fortress Britain
 

Thanks!! :thumbsup: But people still believe it!?

Re: Fortress Britain
 

PMSL.

Sat at home with the lurgy feeling totally pants, and that has really made me laugh:D

Re: Fortress Britain
 

But rather than criticising suggestions being made, or methods in place already, does no one have a potentially workable option other than the...

"it's the government intervening again blah,blah vitriol?":confused:

Re: Fortress Britain
 

That's why I find it funny that Christians hold such strong beliefs with no idea what this old book of twaddle actually says! Well done to Islam for enforcing education about your religion! I mean that! :D

As for a solution ? I don't think we can allow religions which cannot integrate with society to operate in this country at all. The fundamentalist nature and barbaric texts do not comply with the modern world. In this country you are free, that differs from free to force your religious views on to others (I am aware of the irony here ;))

Re: Fortress Britain
 

I think the point is that there is no solution - hence why people take exception to being spyed on by the government, especially when we're being charged a fortune for the privilage.

That said, stop beating the crap out of the middle east wouldn't be a bad place to start.

Re: Fortress Britain
 

i know we should have just dropped the bomb it would have been cheaper and stopped the Americans using us for target practice

Re: Fortress Britain
 

FS...Your reply dissapoints me to be honest. I was thinking that maybe you had quite clear alternatives in mind? Your response hints at no more than perhaps exasperation and outrage only?

(My reply is not aimed at goading you at all.)

Re: Fortress Britain
 

what we should do is give the suicide bombers a safe place to do it like a big field and open days where you could go and pay to watch, its not there fault they believe every word that is said to them but we could kill a few birds with one stone here, and make some money in the process

Re: Fortress Britain
 

hahahaha!

That's a brilliant idea!

Re: Fortress Britain
 

Again, with the utmost respect to those who died and their families (and of course the 700+ who were injured)...

As 56 people died in the July 7th bombings, over two years ago, I'd say the terrorist threat is negligible if you consider there are about 60 million people in the UK. That is literally a one-in-a-million chance of being killed by a terrorist, I fancy my chances. My objection is that my freedom is being restricted for no good reason, my liberties and privacy removed for essentially a myth. I bet one in a million horses born has a horn on it's forehead, doesn't mean it's a unicorn. OK, maybe not. I would like to see how an ID card will protect me again a terrorist bomb, just how big are they, and what are they made of? Why do you need my email address if I'm travelling? Is it to judge how much Viagra I've been offered to assess the danger of a mid-flight stonker that may endanger the lives of others?

What can be done is to apply pressure to muslim communities in order to get them to identify the extreme minority within, rather than our current policy of making excuses for a particularly vocal minority. You hear clerics praising the martyrs and we do nothing, we have women routinely killed for dishonouring families and we do nothing, saying that, the muslim community is fairly quiet about that issue too. We don't ask muslims to deal with the BNP, we do that, and quite rightly. It's time to stop walking on eggshells and start making the muslim communities acknowledge that, however you look at it, the problem is more closely related to them and is more their responsibility, than it is people of other faiths, or no faith at all. If you stand too close to fan that the sh*t's getting thrown at, it's going to splat on you a bit too.

Re: Fortress Britain
 

i wouldnt blow myself up no matter how many virgins, i dont know where i heard this but someone once said virgins look great on paper but if you think about it they all be screaming and wanting to be bought icecreams

Re: Fortress Britain
 

i live within 100metres of were there has been terrorist activity and know a lot of muslims and i dont believe for a second that there is a minority they all want bush dead dont forget about rushty life isnt important in the east thats why so many are escaping, our ethics are different and we believe that not to follow is a good thing you know to make your own mind up and seek out the good from the bad, i guess what im tring to say is not so many of us have blind faith like we had in medievil times its just through civilization weve become more talerent towards each other, and we're not so easerly offended we are more secure in ourselves otherwise we be burning dolls n flags too

Re: Fortress Britain
 

It's not that I don't think there are alternatives, I just don't think that there's a particular problem that needs solving. See pizzas post, I share his views :smile:

Re: Fortress Britain
 

This I don't agree with at all, and to be honest I think it's a common misunderstanding of how sharia, and muslim practice of beliefs in general, operates. Fundamentalism generally means not just believing in the fundamentals of a religion, but rejecting all else. It's odd, because the people we call fundamentalist muslims generally aren't fundamentalist at all, they're intensely revisionist. The Qur'an and Sunnah are essentially a basic, immutable code, but most of what we see in the western perception of sharia isn't directly derived from the Qur'an. A fundamentalist by rights should reject the fiqh and hadith, but none do, since they use the hadith in particular to support their arguments.

The most fundamentalist muslim organisation in the world right now is probably muslim feminism, since one of the main weapons they have is using the Qur'an to overcome the subsequent fiqh and hadith that have grown against them, and cutting back through translation and corruption to older meanings. Arranged marriage is forbidden in the Qur'an, for example, and the "sharia" dress codes are almost entirely from hadith.

On the other hand, the Taliban aren't Qur'anic fundamentalists at all, if anything they disregard swathes of the Qur'an to serve their ends.