Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...ideo-complaint

That's pretty shocking treatment for two people who's only crime seems to be that they were an irritant to the police.

Why are protesters being grouped in with "terrorists" and treated under the same legislation?

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

That is just outrageous and disgusting bully boy behaviour imo.
The police seem to have a real problem with being identified yet they dont have a problem pumping a shed load of bullets into an innocent mans head when they failed to clearly identify him before he got on a tube. :roll:

The powers given to police in these sort of demonsatrtions are unjust and imo illegal. If they can film people for their reasons then those same people can film them back for their own reasons. All the woman did was aks for his shoulder number, a piece of info he shuld have had clearly dispalyed and infomation he should make available when it is requested.
but oh no, lets not do whats legaly expected of us, lets just attack them and arrest them for obstruction when they were doing no such thing. And i heard women police voices too, so why are they arrested women being man handled by male officers f there are females present?
Just disgusts me when i see this kind of behavour displayed by an police officer.
Worst part is that its clealry sanctioned from higher up otherwise the indvidualt officers would not act this way of their own accord.

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

I know I gave the TSU stand @ Hendon a wide berth yesterday...........

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

:rolleyes:

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

Does it make it acceptable that it happened a while ago? I didn't hear or see this at the time and following the police behaviour at the recent G20 demo its good to know that the IPCC have previous complaints to look at too.

Or is it OK in your opinion cos it was a while ago? i dont get the :rolleyes: you see.

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

duplicated.

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

Neither acceptable nor not acceptable I don't wanna really air my views because my judgement is often wrong. The :rolleyes: was that it was a year ago and has only surfaced now, just after stuff has slightly calmed down from the G20 happenings.

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

police officers - the greatest people some days, complete :smt013 the next.

but yeah that behavior is completely out of order for something as simple as taking a picture

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

but its not a right or wrong issue, its your view of what you see happening and weather YOU as an individual agree or accept it. Its not a conformist thing where your view has to be the same as anyone elses.
Anyway thanks for clarifying that.
I'd imagine we only see this now as it had to be kept confidential due to the IPCC investigation.... or the police knwo they have something to be ashamed of an didnt want it out in the open before now.

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

.

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

It shouldn't affect the situation or the behaviour of the police but I think it was mentioned to make it clear they weren't the militant style protester, just normal people who were airing their grievances in a peaceful and legal way.

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

I dont see what having had kids has anything to do with things........

A "normal" protester wouldn't have gotten all in the cops face about his number - they were deliberately stirring things up, makes them pretty militant to me.

However that doesnt warrant the way they were treated for trying to get the police to follow procedures - ie show their number.

So no, the police DIDN'T do the right thing, either with respects to uniform or actions, but the women WERE not just bystanders,

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

Police have been using anti-terrorist powers against peaceful protesters for a while now. On the occasions they do get caught on camera it seems to be the case that a 'thorough' investigation is carried out by the IPCC...and then nothing happens.

The police officers that murdered Jean Charles de Menezes are still on the street carrying guns to protect the public (if it wasn't so tragic it would be funny).

Police officers can run you down, push you around, shoot you in the head, and otherwise act in ways that we expect to see on news reports from Zimbabwe and Iran. And what happens? They get suspended on full pay until the media decides to move on to another story and then they are back on the street.

This is not a new phenomena. Those here who are interested in social history will no doubt have heard of the Peterloo Massacre, Siege of Sidney Street, Battle of Orgreave, Battle of the Beanfield etc.

From the peasants revolt of 1381 to the present day our history of full of repression of the masses by the brutal henchmen of the elite. I see no reason why this will change in the future.

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

I think they mention the kids to set the mindset that they were not part of the "campers" at the protest and by having young kids they had responsibilites to return to, so they were not of the mindset that they can go out, cause as much trouble as they like and happily spend a night in the cells for it knowing they have nowhere better to be.

Aso SK i dont see either of them "all up in the cops face" at any point. No more than i get up in PCIAATP face when i'm challenging him about his beahviour (sorry PCIAATP, for those not in the know is the local PC who shows up at Soho Massive meets from time to time claiming he's had calls complaining about us) and the agressive manner he tries to deal with us in. Do you really think it would be justified for him and a bunch of his mates to jump me too then? For simply asking what i am leagly entitle to ask of him...his badge/shoulder number?
Thats all these women were doing, one officer refuses and lies that he doesnt have to give this info so she says i want a pic of this person - who otherwise cant be identified - to make a complaint about him. Its the police who then obstruct them, not the other way round.

As for "stirring things up"...how? They were there to do exactly what the police were doing, film people and make sure any inappropriate behaviour is caught and recored on tape. Now if thats stirring things up then the cops were doing the same so just as guilty of stirring things up, no?
Its clear from the cops pwn video that they are aware of who these people are and set out to target them and find some pathetic reason to either confiscate their cameras or arrest them.

And i dont think anyone said the women were just bystanders either did they????

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

I knew I had worded that badly.........

What I was trying to get across is that they fact that they challenged the cops authority, which is a sure-fire way to get things to kick off with the police these days.

PCIAATP is on best behaviour these days - its not so long ago he was physically pulling people to the ground with their bikes on top of them.

I am not saying that the women did anything that is wrong, or that their actions should have been take or should be accepted as provocation.

What I AM saying is that they were not standing meekly on the sidelines and got jumped on by the cops, they got into a confrontation over badge number, the cops went mental

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

They did nothing of the sort did they? Asking someone who should have his identity prominently on display to provide you with those details is in no way challenging their authority is it?

But where are you getting this idea that the story somehow says they were merely bystanders? They admit why they were there, to film the police and ensure their behaviour is up to scratch and reasonable. At least one of them was not in full uniform (no shoulder numbers) and was not having his authority challenged by simply asking for his number. He LIED to someone who he knows is better informed than most of the general public and she was attempting to hold him accountable for his lies and clearly intentional hiding of his number and was subsequently unjuslty attacked and arrested.
The cops didn't "go mental", they employed every dirty little trick at their disposal by arresting them for no good reason, telling lies that they were obstructiing police, having them put in prison on remand for 4 days before all charges against them were dropped.
Thats far from going "mental" its a sanctioned plan to attempt to put these people off doing what they are doing...attempting to hold the police accountable for their illegal behaviour.

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

+1

I would have said that neither party conducted them selves how they should have done. I know I would have gotten fairly angry if the woman had spoke to me like that I dont know about any one else.

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

I am NOT getting my point across at all well here - It like Spidey is on the A41 heading north and I'm on the M1, heading in the same direction but not on the same track.

So I am going to just leave it at the following.

1) The women did not do anything that warranted what happened.

2) This is a great example of why every bit of open-ended legislation that the current government has introduced needs to be thrown in the bin rather than left open to interpretation.

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

Hmm, sense has been spoken! :notworthy:

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

SOCPA is another great bit of legislation. Designed to stop 'serious organised criminal' members of the public standing outside the mother of parliaments and having a peaceful protest. I joined just such a protest and we were surrounded by police, FIT's with zoom lenses taking our pictures, totally over the top.

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

The problem is, cops are not just normal members of the public that can get upset when someone is a bit blunt with them. We give them special powers and in return they're supposed to use those powers with restraint and without getting emotional. If they can't do that then they should not be doing the job. I'm not saying they should put up with verbal abuse, but they should be thick-skinned enough to deal with a little shortness from someone.

The women were within their rights to ask for a badge number, especially as it's supposed to be a legal requirement that they're on display. It seems any attempt to question a police officer about their duties is automatically deemed inappropriate and liable to get you thrown in the back of a van.

The worst bit is the complete over-reaction to subduing the women - using pressure points and other pain-inducing techniques on someone who is not actually struggling against you is despicable, as was strapping one of the women like an animal.

I'd really like to hear an actual police officer's view on this, because I'd hope that the majority of them find it as unpalatable as I do.

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

I trust the Police about as far as they could throw me.

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

Well that does not look good!!!

Based on that video it the police looked like they have over reacted. However like always what happened before or after we will never know.

Ch00

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

If anyone wants my collar number and asked me like that, I would have no problem giving it - then again, it's always hanging out there for all to see of yu are tall enough!

At ALL "events" like the one in the video I've ever worked, it's drummed into us to make sure our collar numbers are on display. Thay had no reason to refuse what was, after all, a polite request (from what we see in the edited video)

Pete

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

I feel some respect for you lot who are in the job for having the patience to be in the same profession as thugs like that. That sort of behaviour is just asking for people to become violent, are they trying to create 70s NI on the mainland? Do they like snipers, IEDs?

Pete you don't count, I know you're only there to thrash the cars...

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

I do have to laugh about it being the police evidence gatherers camera and note with interest someone saying "cameras on" in the initial struggle. Mostly like when I've done bits of jobs in pubs and clubs, learning where the CCTV cover is. The difference is I've never had a punch up with someone who didn't deserve or cause it.

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

Judging by the video that could be quite a long way....

I'm with BluePete on this one, there are some things worth fighting over, your badge number isn't one of them. The problem with events of this kind is that they drag cops in from all over the country who are then left guarding some piece of wire fence for hours on end, and when they do finally get to go hands on with the "opposition" there seems to be some pent up frustration to release. Shame really that one or two incidents like this undermine the thousands of other "confrontations" that were resolved peacefully.

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

Pleased to se that some of our police contignet on here are as opposed to this behaviour as the rest of us and that no one has yet come in here screaming at me that i'm "anti police" as has been said about me in other threads.

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

*Paging Orwell*


The IPCC shouldn't be run by cops, in the same way a prisoner shouldn't be a judge. The clue is in the frickin 'I'.

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

I knw what you're getting at there Dizzy but i think its sometimes required as only they know of all the dirty underhanded techniques serving cops use, whereas you or I may not know them all.

For example the pressure point pain delivery shown by one of the cops. If i was to tell 100 people that cops do this so as to deliver pain but not leave marks and thus open them up to allegations of beatings i would image 85 or so wouldn't believe me and would assume i'm making it up.
If a serving or ex-cop said it then it'd carry far more weight for those same people.
Even someone seeing that vid would not spot it unless they knew what to look for, and so if an "investigator" didn't know to look for those things they'd go uncovered.

However this of course leave the IPCC open to all kinds of allegations of corruption. However i think its still from hih=gher up that the whitewash decisions are made. The IPCC were very scathing about the police and the operation that led to the killing of JC DeMenezes, yet the inquiry was a complete whitewash that ended with the family walking out before the final day. Even the jury at the enquiry said they found the way the police colluded and lied about the events to be shocking but the enquiry was not allowing them to return a decision of "unlawfull killing" which i belive the IPCC had been pushing for.

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

You mean the way that senior police officers blocked access to the IPCC, and by the time they got access it was found that the CCYC camera system that would have shown the shooting was *cough* not recording *cough*.

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

Hmmm, oddly the last time I've put anyone up before a court on remand (ohh dear that'll be twice in the last 3 days) they always get let out by the courts, because oddly enough it's (an independent bench of) Magistrates who after listening to the case against and representations by defence solicitors decide who goes on reman, NOT the Police, but I suppose as we are on yet ANOTHER "ACAB" forum (yawn), then it's quite convenient to climb on ye olde bandwagon and have a go.

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

THOSE cops are b@stards, I don't believe anyone has said ALL...

Why so defensive? Was it you warning them that cameras were rolling before the tazers came out :-P

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

Haven't watched the video, don't want to watch the video, not going to watch the video.......................

But this thread, (like the ones before) start off with a general swipe at the Police, then (probably someoine like me) says something about the usual "most are good, trying to do a difficult job etc, why balme all for just one bad apple etc etc etc".

Then those that initially had the general swipe come back with "oh yes I didn't mean all, I blame..................." then go on to blame one mindless thug or "senior" officers for orders that they obviously gave etc.

It reminds of the fast show from the 90's, you know the sketch where Paul Whitehouse plays a guy in a pub that just agrees with whatever the person taking before him said. They start taking about the greatest footballer ever in such n such a position/team and the character just cannot disagree, he's just a little sheep following the person before him.

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

Then you should watch the video! Just a small piece of advice, 6 minutes of your life is too much to spare? :thumbdown:

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

Or a specific case of abuse of their power. Hardly a general "ACAB!" is it?

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/8112812.stm

Watch the second smaller video and compare to the original OP posted Kingsnorth video.

Both show police arresting protestors. One is in a civilised western democracy. One is in a tin pot dictatorship pretending to be a democracy. In complete honesty and without a whiff of hype, it really is hard to tell which is which.

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

Which makes their remand even more baffling to me. Its not like they are of any danger to the public in any way are they? Yet the Magistartes "decide" they need to be in jail for 4 days? For a case that then goes no-where? Yet the ones you put up for remand i assume were in fact a danger to the general public or certain members/sections of it?

Mate i really dont think you are in any position to make judgments on the posts in this thread or generalise about comments made unless you watch the video and judge it from your own point of view.

And i'll show my ignorance by sating i had to go to google to find out what ACAB is and the first answer it gave me was this, lol. The A.C.A.B. is a Malaysian rock band. The band was formerly known as A.C.A.B. from 1994 to 2003 which popularized streetpunk/oi! in the Malaysian ...

So i must be far from your average ACAB-er / ist (?) if i didnt even know what it meant.

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

Yes, the fact they are apparently responsible citizens with children shows they ought to know better than to antagonise the police.

Re: Heavy handling of protesters by police
 

So don't go attending pathetic demonstrations that you know will upset them.

Interesting to note that the fit-watch demonstrators were all wearing black hoodies and sunglasses to conceal their identities from the cameras.