Do I need to upgrade my brakes?
 

Not really happy with the performance on the brakes when needed in a slight emergency! :eek:

I just didn't seem to get a response from them!

Would changing the pads make any difference?

I've heard braided hoses make a difference but do they just make them sharp and remove the gradual braking?

thanks in advance

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes!
 

My K3 had HH pads in as standard on the front. I used them once for an emergency stop and had the rear wheel 2 feet in the air, although by that time I had ditched the standard Dunlop tyre on the front.

Tim.

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes!
 

Got the standard tyre and I belive the standard pads!

I'm worried locking the back wheel which I've already done before and was worried about pulling a stoppie! Would cack meself! lol

But there just seem to be any stopping power, took me quite to way to actually stop! Not good when i've got a car stopped infront of me. stopped just 1/3 of a Metre away! Needless to say felt a bit sick once i'd stopped!

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes!
 

Bikes have a very small contact patch when braking, and will take longer than a modern car to stop - you have to take this into account when riding and leave yourself space and time to either stop or avoid a situation arising in front of you. The fact that you didn't pile into the vehicle in front shows that you left enough space...:cool:

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes!
 

Jesus, only just!!!!!

Blooming sun! Couldn't see the brakes lights, then thought, hmm I'm getting closer to them cars pretty quick, oh wait its stopping! Oh dear!

Didn't like that feeling!

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes!
 

Both of which theres nothing wrong with.

You just need to practice your braking technique. Go find a large empty space such as a carpark and practice braking hard, you'll be amazed at just how hard you can brake, before you lock a wheel up, also you'll be more confident with the brakes then so if you have an emergency again you'll find you'll stop better.

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes!
 

Don't think there's a rider that does, my first off was caused by me not anticipating obscured brake lights under direct sunlight, just chalk it up to experience and be grateful you got away with it, the SV has plenty of stopping power to haul it up on the road, might be worth servicing them if they're feeling a bit mushy and installing braided lines if you need more feel - if you were abusing it on the track then consider upgrading but not for normal riding, spend the money on an advanced riding course instead:cool:

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes!
 

try and adjust the span adjuster thingy on the top of the lever. It does seem to make a difference. I;ve been riding my yellow SV that has the girly setting of 5 on it.
Mot's my black one this week and thought the brakes were funny, until I adjusted it from 2 to 4.
Might sound odd, but you have to pull it further on 'man' setting!

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes!
 

Hhmm thanks Dizzy, I've got on the most girly setting don't know what number, whichever one brought it closer the the throttle. So would turning it the other way give me more feel?
Lone wolf, further training already sorted doing Roadcraft on Thursday! :)

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes!
 

Absolutely right. You need to hone the skill of hard / emergency braking, just like any other skill. The big difference with hard braking as a skill is that one rarely uses it in the course of a ride, because one actively tries to avoid situations where it is needed. Therefore a concious effort is needed to maintain the skill.

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes!
 

I agree with this too.

I find with the SV you can use the engine braking, quick down gear changing whilst applying the brakes I find most effective to slow down than slamming the brakes on and leaving it in the gear you were riding it.

To be fair I only use the brakes to come to a total stop, or stop in an emergancy, on in town traffic. Most larger roundabouts I find engine braking, and a slight bit of back brake to display the light to display to the person(s) behind you are braking.

It is confidence with the brakes not the pads necessairly, don't be scared to pull a bit more if you need to but make sure you've got some practice in a car park.

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes!
 

Yup, what Fizz says is the best advice i'd say too. There is also the possibility that you may need to bleed your brakes so if you can get someone who knows about bikes or a local mechanic you trust to have a look at that aspect, it'd be a good move.

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes!
 

Mine bike is the same year as yours I have found that they work fine on my bike.

What the others have suggested is good advice, the same I was given when I first bought my bike by the riding school who taught me to ride.

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes!
 

Ruth, you might also need to consider that with your shorter suspension there is likely to be a bit less dive which can disguise just how hard you are braking. You will still get weight transfer but just be careful not to snatch the front brake. It is true that you will be surprised how hard you can brake when you really have to, but you will also be surprised just how quickly the front will go if you actually manage to lock it. Take some quality time out on a nice quiet road or big deserted car park and practice a few stops from relatively high speed, eg 50 - 60 mph.

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes!
 

What's the Roadcraft training you're doing?
Sounds the best idea anyway - speak to them & tell them your concerns & they should be able to point you in the right direction as to setting up your bike (e.g. span adjuster) & what to practice.
It's hard to give advice over the internet other than IF your SV brakes are in good condition, then they should be good enough = youjust need to practice, but there could be a mechanical problem.
Only once you are used to the standard brakes in good working condition should you consider any of the available upgrades.
:)

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes!
 

Ok, cheers guys for the good advice!

I did think after i should have used the engine braking but it all happened to fast!

So less back, more front and engine braking! I will find somewhere to practice, good idea!

Roadcraft?

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/8908/roacra10.th.jpg

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes!
 

Good morning all.


One thing often overlooked when people complain that the brakes have no feel, is the height of the lever/pedal in relation to their hand or foot.

It would be well worth adjusting your levers & pedals to suit your build. A good starting point is to sit on the bike in your normal riding position & rest your fingers on top of the levers, with your fingers straight. Your fingers should be roughly at the same angle as your forearm. If not, it's a simple matter of slackening the clamp pinch bolts & rotating the lever up or down to suit.
Adjusting the rear brake & gear lever is slightly more fiddly, but still relatively easily accomplished. A peek in the manual should show you how. Basically, the ankle doesn't like being at angles too much either side of 90 degrees, so adjust your brake pedal so you can easily get your foot over the pedal without having to lift it too much.
With the gearlever it's a case of trial & error, as, in use you have to move it up aswell as down. So make minute adjustments until it feels comfortable.

Many a complaint of lack of feel in the brakes, missed gears, & aching clutch wrist etc can be overcome with a little tailoring of the controls to suit the rider.

Braided hoses & high friction pads are a worthwhile improvement to any bike, & any issues such as locking up the brakes too readily often disappear after a little tailoring of the controls, as described above.



Cheers.

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes?
 

Mine ain't good but I think it's more to do with them needing a good caliper service. What year's your bike? On my old curvy they were a bit worse than my current bike's and after several weeks messing about with pretty much every component they were 2 finger endo-worthy.

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes!
 

...However, as said, make sure your braking system is in good order. Make sure you dont have siezed pistons etc and that everything is nicley greased up (With Red grubber stuff etc) and that the fluid and pads are in good order. If you do want to try different tuff, then of course you can change the pads for a sintered pad, and maybe the hoses (Yet im not convinced there is much difference with hoses). Pads, anything like EBC HH (If you are a low milage user, as they are hard on discs) or Cabonne Lorraine A3+ pads. There are toerh brands but those are the only 2 i have expierence of.

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes?
 

Its a 2007 with 3500k on the clock!

All levers are correctly position sorted them out when i first got the bike. But thanks for your help

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes!
 

Not sure if this is to do with the hoses or just the fact a renewal of brake fluid was necesary but I know andybrad's struggled with his brakes pretty much since he got the bike, had them serviced, changed the fluid and bled numerous times and wasn't happy with them until he swapped his hoses.

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes?
 

I ride mine and the girlfriends bike back to back, both bike have sintered pads, mine has braided hoses, heres stock (8 year old hoses) i cant feel the difference at all.

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes?
 

One thing that might be worthwhile noting is that you're not going to be able to brake as efficiently as the bike can do with the standard fork springs. Adding uprated springs and heavier oil makes the bike dive much less, which means less of the weight transfer is used in compressing the springs, and more in pushing through the tyre contact patch.

It's possible the the above is rubbish and it only improves the feedback from the front-end, but after changing springs/oil I was able to brake much harder than I had previously ;)

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes?
 

How? The laws of Physics say that that would not be true. Your brakes will still apply the same ammount of frictional force to the discs no matter what, you are not changing the braking system in anyway. Its a perceptional thing imho that you are braking harder when you are not. Maybe its un nerving that the bike dips therfore you dont brake as hard. Again, Verna's SV is stock, mine has uprated oil and springs, yet they both stop just as well.

I am a scaptic to all these things and it takes a lot to convince me. Being able to ride 2 svs back to back with these difference have taught me, that a majority of them are just plain rubbish and that the differences are just to small to notice. Maybe on better bikes it would be a lot more noticable, or if you done large swaps like USD forks, 6 pots, rear shock replce, then yes maybe there difference would be noticible.

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes?
 

WRT Neeja and Viney's comments about fork springs, I think Viney is right that it's a perception thing, but not because one has fitted 'new stuff' to the bike. Standard SV springs may be too soft for some (my self included) and so dive badly under braking. Fork dive puts off peeps from braking any harder as they feel 'at the limit' of the bike doing a endo / stoppie. Fitting the correct spring for your weight and getting the damping right with a fork oil change reduces dive significantly, meaning the rider can brake harder without feeling that the bike will stoppie. All it means is that you can get closer to the max braking potential of the SV.

As far as the OP is concerned, I think Red Herring made a good post regarding her bikes geometry and braking.

FWIW I always believe rider training / practice to get the max out of what you have is the way forward before component upgrades.

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes?
 

Did you grab a handfull of clutch in panic too?
This will also increase your braking distance due to the fact that you will be relying entirely on the brakes and none of the engine to slow you.

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes?
 

Can't answer that 100% as it happened all too quickly. But yes I think i did pull it in!

I did think in hindsight I should have changed down and used the engine braking!

What would i have done took it straight down to second or down just one gear?

I don't recall any diving on the front forks, just remember thinking **** don't lock the back wheel!

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes?
 

By this logic, braking on ice shouldn't increase stopping distance, as the same frictional force is applied to the discs.

Braking is basically made up of two separate sets of frictional forces - friction on the discs and friction with the floor through the tyre.

If a bike had no suspension, as soon as you pulled the lever, all the weight of the bike is pushing through the fork onto the ground, through the contact patch (which will expand as the tyre deforms under load, improving friction with the ground and stopping the bike faster).

If a bike has very stuff suspension, when you pull the lever the forks compress as the weight of the bike is pushed forwards. Stiff springs and heavy oil means very little compression is going to take place, and plenty of force is going to be pushed through the forks.

If a bike has overly soft suspension, upon pulling the lever the springs pretty much fall down. Not as much braking occurs until the springs bottom out, at which point weight is being fully transferred through to the contact patch. At this point, hope you don't hit a bump.

I used to easily bottom out stock suspension under braking, which is going to have an effect on how hard you can brake. Switching to progressive springs and heavier oil meant there was no more bottoming out, and I could brake a lot harder in a shorter period of time without worrying about overwhelming the front.

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes?
 

The laws of physics would also say that if the front of the bike dives like mad there will be a delay between applying the brakes and the front tyre being loaded by braking force, giving a bike spike in tyre forces as the suspension bottoms out. Reducing effective grip and making a sudden lock more likely. And, a reduction of the bikes moment of inertia as the CoG effectively raises up, making a stoppie more likely.

Most important laws of physics, gravity always wins, and tarmac rash hurts :-P

Ruth, make sure you develop the muscle memory to grip the bike with your legs hard and not weight the bars under braking. Weighting the bars like this makes it feel like you are braking much harder than you are. Your arms should be relaxed. This also improves feel of the front end by a huge margin.
This is something which can only be learnt by practice. Again, find a car park and find out for yourself how much braking power you really have.

Even excellent brakes can feel naff with bad technique.

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes?
 

I understand what you are saying, however, this will not make you 'brake harder' its just that the frictional forces from your tyre will add into the mix a fraction earlier and these forces are so miniscule that i doubt if it makes any difference unless in your head. If you wanted a lager contact patch, then in theroy letting some air out of your tyre will have the same effect as the stiffer suspension!! Its almost like the ABS/Non ABS debate all over again. If you are a heavy chap like myself, my forks are bottomed out when i get on the damn thing, so eat more pises. Cheaper then springs and oil :)

Whatever happens, if the OP wants to change his brakes then fine, the point i am trying to make is that in reality it makes so little difference that tis not worth it, well not on the SV anyway and thats form personal back to bak expierence.

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes?
 

Ok for a start you guys have lost me! :D

I don't remember leaning over the bars, I actually thinking I was pulling back, in like a last ditched effort to pull the bike away from the car, stupid as that sounds! Grip the tank with me legs, thats another good tip! Defo gonna try the car park thing, worth knowing what my brakes can do and what they feel like!

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes?
 

Ultimately engine braking is a nice controlled way of slowing down. In an emergency situation the front & rear brakes are doing the work. An "Emergancy engine braking manouver" isn't really a useful way to slow down. Partly because you are only using the rear tyre to stop with the engine, leaving the front rolling.

With experiance, you can deal with gears while performing a hard stop but to start with I'd concerntrate on just usung both front & rear together (front's worth about 80% of your stopping force in the dry). The clutch should be pulled in just before you stop.

From the sounds of it, experiance and practice are your best courses of action rather than altering the bike.

Jambo

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes?
 

Sorry to confuse, it was a response to viney invoking the laws of physics :-P

If you could pull back you were not braking very hard!

Grip hard, you will feel your inertia pushing you forward, don't let this force push you onto the bars. You should be able to flap your arms like a chicken. When you are relaxed enough you will feel the front tyre getting squidged into the road.

Upright, on an SV in the dry, with almost any tyres that aren't totally stone cold, you will be able to lift the rear wheel way before it slides. There is plenty grip if you have the confidence to use it.

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes?
 

Nooo it wasn't you that confused me it was the whole laws of physics convo! lol
It felt like I couldn't get the levers down anymore..... as for the tyre getting squidged onto the road, it just felt like there were sliding along!

I would rather not be lifting the back wheel off the floor! :help:

Ok I have a week of from thursday so practice, practice, practice! Just hope it don't rain!

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes?
 

NEVER change down a gear for emergency braking
It will take far too long and give minimal benefit compared with using your front & back brakes correctly. No harm in making sure the clutch is out for as long as possible before you stall (or even let it stall) though.

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes?
 

Don't even change down along side using your brakes? I would of thought the amount of engine braking would help?

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes?
 

Emergency stopping, there's no time to think - just haul on the anchors. Forget everything but braking. Don't even worry about the clutch - just let it stall if you have to. This is why its a good idea to practise a few times so it comes naturally when you need it. If you've got time to change down, it aint an emergency.

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes?
 

This is why it's important to practise before you really need to. Then it comes fairly instinctively when you are approaching the side of a car at 40mph.

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes!
 

Nice to see you're going for extra training :D.

I've been riding, on and off, for over 30 years, and i'm doing a few refreshers - call it a rider mot. Instructors tell me i'm decent but they've spotted a few bad habits (keep it clean Bri :smt110), e.g. two finger braking, poor lane discipline thro' roundabouts.

good luck.

Re: Do I need to upgrade my brakes?
 

Two finger braking a bad habit? Not this grandad s*** again...

Try use 4 fingers on the brakes on mine, and when you've had the top yoke surgically removed from your nose you can tell us about it :-P