Clutch drag and oil choice
 

I change the oil and filter every 6000km, and I’ve consistently used Motul 5100 full synthetic. The sump needs a top-up late in the oil-change cycle, and a month or so ago I was out of Motul when I noticed the level was down before a longish ride, so I added 300-400ml of Pennzoil 10-40W which I had on hand. I knew this was automotive grade (SM), not motorcycle (MA), but it’s not “Energy Conserving”, so my understanding was that it was free of friction modifiers that can cause problems with wet clutches.

However, in the weeks after the top-up, I started to notice increasing clutch drag. The bike started wanting to creep a bit, clutch in, at red lights. It got hard to find neutral. And up on the rear stand, there was a HARD clunk outa neutral into first and the rear wheel spun up pretty vigourously, in gear with clutch disengaged.

I frigged around with the clutch adjustment (per the manual, and also per Sid Squid), without a solution. I got frustrated, and a bit worried that I’d created a REAL problem. I surfed the web (mostly this site), and got good advice on clutch adjustment, but little help on the clutch drag issue. Last Saturday I changed the oil and filter (on schedule, at 36,000km), refilling with Motul.

Worryingly, the drag issue persisted. I buggered around with a variety of worm-gear and cable setting, to no avail. Eventually I just kinda gave up and came in to watch TV for the evening. The worry continued.

Sunday got consumed by home-office projects and Monday by work, but when I got home I reckoned I’d flip the bike back onto the stand and have another go. And – presto! – as soon as I fired it up and dropped it out of neutral into first, it was obvious ‘the problem’ was gone. There’s a tiny bit of drag, and the rear wheel turns very slowly for a few seconds after the clutch is disengaged, then stops. Once the engine if fully warm, most of the residual drag disappears. The worm-gear is adjusted as it should be, the cables too, and the bite-point is right where I want it – life is good again. It just took a couple days of soaking for the Motul ‘goodness’ to leach out the remnants of the Pennzoil ‘badness’.

And I’ve learned the lesson. If you’re having clutch drag problems and the adjustments are OK, think about the oil in your sump. Cheap (or inappropriate) lubricants could be the cause of your trouble.

Re: Clutch drag and oil choice
 

+1 change of oil and correct amount solved my bad clutch drag too. I actually cleaned the old oil off my plates too, so was pretty much instantly better.

The wheel turning if its off the ground is normal, however mine would start moving up the drive when i revved lol.

Re: Clutch drag and oil choice
 

The back wheel spinning on the paddock stand is nothing to worry about, that will happen with a perfectly healthy clutch. You should be able to easily stop it moving though.

Motul 5100 isn't fully synth ;-)

Re: Clutch drag and oil choice
 

yup, agreed YC. problem was, the rear wheel was spinning up 'hard' - no way to stop it 'underway' by hand, and very difficult to stop even with friction from my boot toe/sole. (i'm aware that most of that 'difficulty' is simply interia) also, if i held the wheel and dropped the bike into gear, i could prevent the 'spin-up', but it took (at a guess) several pounds of force to prevent the wheel from turning. and i don't think that's 'normal'.

whereas after the change, there's hardly any energy being delivered to the wheel, so essentially zero force required to prevent and/or stop the spin. I'm fully comfortable with that.



i've seen it called semi-synthetic in a variety of places too, but the 'big' oil reference article on the calsci site says:
"To the best of my knowledge, Delvac-1, AMSOil, Redline, and Motul 5100 are the only oils made from pure traditional synthetics. "

http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Oils1.html

ahhh, who to believe, eh? the Motul site itself has no product-specific info (that I could find...)



bottom line, Motul 5100 completely resolved my clutch drag problem...


cheers,

Re: Clutch drag and oil choice
 

Always use motorcycle-specific oils if you can. But if you are in the middle of no-where and all you can top-up with is car oil...well do it, clutches are easier to change than a dead engine (and cheaper too!)

I guess the wheel spins because of fluid drag when in neutral?

I get some small clutch drag problems when the bike is hot in traffic (i mean fan-coming-on hot)...seems my clutch is on its way out, but its only at the early stages. An oil change cured the dragging last time...

Re: Clutch drag and oil choice
 

Place I read was 5100 is a bled of mineral and ester synthetic, 7100 is fully ester synthetic.

I've used the 5100 for ages and it does the job.

Re: Clutch drag and oil choice
 

Just reading through this old thread which is very relevant to an ongoing problem I’ve had since I got the bike, I’m now at a point where I feel I’ve tried everything and the only solution now is to spend some hard earned cash and replace the clutch on my SV650K3 or get shut all together, which is a shame cos I love the bike but for this

I’ve adjusted clutch on more than one occasion as per previous post, but still when the engine gets hot (above 87c) it suffers with clutch drag, not nasty but enough to spoil the ride, especially when round town where there’s lots of gear changing,
In the past, I’ve tried Motul 5100 with the level only half way up on the glass (always check oil with bike level on the paddock stand) currently, I’m using Silkolene Comp 4 fully synth which seems to give slightly better results for me than Motul but still get some annoying drag.
Oddly when I first start the machine up and its cold it goes into and changes gear perfect with no catching what so ever, if only it could be the same when hot.

I’ve been looking at replacing the clutch for a complete EBC SRK kit including springs, any thoughts or recommendations

Re: Clutch drag and oil choice
 

Worrying you are checking the oil level when on a paddock stand!


Put the bike on level ground both wheels on the deck. Hold it upright and bend down to look at the level.

Re: Clutch drag and oil choice
 

Makes next to no difference in practice. Maybe 1mm on the window...

Re: Clutch drag and oil choice
 

define clutch drag...

is the bike pulling while in neutral or while you are in gear and have the clutch pulled in?

Re: Clutch drag and oil choice
 

If it was pulling when in neutral, it wouldn't be clutch drag.

Re: Clutch drag and oil choice
 

With a wet clutch and while in neutral and the oil is cold do you mean the back wheel is turning?
This is common till the oil heats up and thins down a bit and after a couple of applications of the clutch it normally stops.
If you are in gear and the bike is creeping forward it is either worn clutch or bad adjustment

Re: Clutch drag and oil choice
 

Longway, one other issue that might be causing trouble (and which did for me), is that the worm gear that drives the rod inward, which releases the clutch plates, can wear. Then, when you pull the clutch lever /cable, the arm rotates but some of the required translation of the rotation into 'push' is lost. So the plates drag - the problem is external, not internal.

You can see the offending part in the centre of this photo, silvery, held in place with 2 bolts, with the release/adjustment nut in its center.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7410/9...e0fc6cee_o.jpg

I had to replace this at about 60,000 kms (say 40,000 miles).

It's part number 23200-11D00 #17 on this microfiche page.

http://www.ronayers.com/CLUTCH-C264436.aspx

Watch closely when you activate your clutch - if you see quite a lot of free play in the worm gear, that might just be the problem. I'd advise replacing the clutch cable at the same time - cheap insurance...

Good luck.
Don

Re: Clutch drag and oil choice
 

No, I wouldn't say the bike was trying to drive when the clutch is pulled in whilst in gear, but before the engine gets up to temperature of around 87c or warmer the bike changes gear smoothly without any catching or clunking, soon as its get to warm then its start getting clunky to change gear and difficult to get into neutral, a quick blip of the throttle usually helps

The clutch is adjusted with the biting point further out than I would normally like

Re: Clutch drag and oil choice
 

Pull your clutch cover, get everything clean (kerosene), and watch closely as the clutch cable is actuated. If there is 'slop' in the push-rod direction, the rotation of the worm-gear is not being efficiently translated into driving the clutch plates apart. I'm not sure if this is your problem, but it's easy to check, and cheap to fix.

Adjusting the bite point takes place at the cable (both ends), and is totally independent of clutch release.

Re: Clutch drag and oil choice
 

up to temp at 87?

mine sits at 74-76 while moving and around 80-84 in traffic.

if my box is not clunky i worry, each gear should go in with a click and neutral is never a problem unless i come to an emergency stop then its fishing time and requires letting the clutch in and out slightly each gear change till i hit neutral :-)

occasionally i will get a false neutral going up the box but thats more on my part than the bike and is me not letting my toes drop before the next up.

Re: Clutch drag and oil choice
 

mmm if mine run at those temperatures I wouldn't have a problem with the clutch, what is the optimum running temperature? is mine running too warm?

Re: Clutch drag and oil choice
 

Although I've never had the clutch cover off, I've checked the worm gear and I would say there is no play, and unless its being lost internally I would say this part is working OK, the bike has covered about 28k

I have adjusted the biting point to maximise the amount the clutch plates are being separated

Re: Clutch drag and oil choice
 

Whilst cold the clutch works perfect and gear changes are spot on, which is the opposite to other bikes I've ridden. The problem isn't bad enough to cause creeping, just difficult to get in gear

Re: Clutch drag and oil choice
 

when was the last time you took the gear leaver off its pin (the one on the footpeg hanger) and greased it up?

Re: Clutch drag and oil choice
 

A clutch that works OK when cold but drags when hot often signifies a notched clutch basket. When cold the plate tangs will sit in the wear ridges on the basket, when hot, (and thus expanded a bit), they will catch and thus not separate cleanly.

Clearly it's worth making absolutely certain that the lifter is in good order, and that the clutch is adjusted correctly before delving deeper and getting covers off the motor.

It should be understood that replacing the clutch plates will not rectify this fault.

If you ever end up with EBC clutch parts, save yourself the trouble, wasted time and disappointment that they will bring to you and short circuit them straight to the bin. This is where you will soon be putting them anyway if you do fit them.

Re: Clutch drag and oil choice
 

When out the other day in the very hot weather, my temp gauge was getting up to 90c when in slow traffic, I noticed when I came to a stand still on tick over the clutch was dragging and trying to drive and unable to engage neutral, soon as I built the revs up you could feel the clutch drag / drive ease off and neutral could be engaged with ease. What should the normal running temp be?

Re: Clutch drag and oil choice
 

About 80C to 95C is normal, over 100C can be regarded as hot with fan on about 104C. Switch off if you get to 110C - your fan has failed :)