Gym/running advice thread
 

Evening all!

Excuse the length of this post, but you guys seem to be a knowledgeble bunch so I thought it was worth a go.

I have noticed that there are a number of rather vast threads concerning weight loss, running, fitness etc. about and thought that rather than let my quandaries get buried within them might ask a little bit of straight forward advice.

Background on me....I'm 6ft, 24 years old and have gone from 19 stone to 13 1/2 stones since this time last year (visual evidence of re-sexification available on request). This has been achieved through a massive change in diet and a small change in activity.

Problem is that depite 13 1/2 stones not sounding like much (in comparison with previous) i'm still quite (very) flabby with my shirt off and have sizable chesticles. Now maybe this is because i'm not particularly muscular, or maybe I just have too much skin (sexy image isn't it) I don't know but I would like to sort it out with some exercise.

I am returning to America for a month in 8 weeks time to visit some old friends, and for the first time in my life be confident enough to take my shirt off should we find ourselves on a beach, pool.....*AHEM* bed....etc.

I have tried Gyms before and ended up going about twice a week for 3 weeks before giving up.

I'm going to create a strict plan and stick to it as I have done with my diet and am trying to formulate a few ideas together:

1. Running 3 (maybe 4) times a week, distance of 2 miles, gradually increasing my pace for the first 4 weeks, then doubling the distance and doing the same thing for the final 4. I don't really have any experience of running so please tell me if i'm an idiot

-Do I need any equipment in particular? If I get some £40 running shoes and a stopwatch is this going to suffice equipment wise?

-Is two miles enough?

-whats a good/average/crap time for 2 miles?

-Is 3/ times a week enough?

2. Gym. I am thinking that If I plan to go to the gym 4 times a week I can then do a day of cardio (30 mins on treadmill etc.) followed by a day on resistance machines and swap things around with rest days in between.

-How long can I expect to do cardio for as a beginner? is their any specific speed/heart rate I should be aiming for?

-How much resistance should I be aiming for on a session? 5 sets of 5 reps on a pre-selected group of exercises that I would change around and increase weights with intermittently.

Maybe I should combine running with resistance training at the gym.

Misc. question..... My diet has been pretty limited calorie wise, do I need to consider increasing protein intake if I am to hope to increase muscle?


Thanks for your time in reading this, any advice, helpful internet links you have or even if you just want to tell me to sod off and ask a personal trainer my myriad of questions, pop a response in this thread.

Cheers all!

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

Not being gay, but have you got any pictures? makes an assessment alot easier.

From my own experience, its alot easier to lose weight by eating less than it is by exercising. You only really want to be toning not building, so 12+ reps light weight.

The muscletalk forums are a good place for advice, lots off people have been there and done it already.

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

Cheers for advice! I shall check out the muscletalk forums. Have to concur with the eating less stuff and for the most part I'm happy. I'm just looking to give myself a real 8 week boost before the summer.

As for photos, I can probably grab something quick (prbably pulling a stupid face and cradling a pint) off facebook but if you're talking about something a little more full body then I shall try and take one tomorrow.

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

untensed, no cheating lol.

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

Eat lots of veg. Carbs in the morning. Don't go 4 times a week, I'd say 3 times a week, and vary your muscle work. I.e Chest and biceps one day. Back shoulders another. Abs and Triceps on third day. Go every other day. Do cardio on the day you dont go gym. If you do both cardio and weights on same day, do cardio first. If your doing cardio, you wont need to work your legs in the gym. Swimming is great for cutting down. But I reckon your best bet would be to turn it all to muscle.

If you do this you wont have to cut back on your food. Maybe even eat more. Fish and chicken are especially good. By the sounds of things you'd build muscle quite easy, as the mass is there already. I.e its way hard for a really naturally skinny guy (me) to get hench.

If you want to build muscle though, working your legs (biggest muscles in your bodies) releases lots of hormones for muscle growth. Cycling is good for this. Join the gym and do a spin class - God it's tough!

If your serious there's loads of supplements to take. Amino acids, protien shakes etc. but I'm not that clue'd up on it all.

Aran

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

You have lots of open ended questions there! Things such as how long you can run for, good time etc it all depends on the person. Some people are. what I would call, natural runners. Myself, I am not. I started running when I started training to apply for the army (long story short, I chickened out, regret it and am reapplying shortly..). I had to work really hard but it's amazing if you put the effort in what you can achieve. 2 miles for some people is a walk upto the shops and back, 2 miles for others can be a marathon.

I started off doing 2miles. When I first started running that I was getting around 13minutes.

Along with running I was doing weight training, or incorporating some pushups/situps/pullups into a run. It probably made me look like a machine (read: d1ck) but every little helps.

Depending on your goal and age depends what heart rate you should be working at. Can't remember what they are off the top of my head mind.

Increasing good protein intake is always a good idea. I used Maximuscle products. (Cyclone to initially bulk out as it's packed with calories then promax there after). I would recomend using Promax. I use it after climbing and can really tell the benefits. If you are using it as part of a training program you should also take it on your off days. Another brand that a colleague at work uses is PhD. Tastes crap compared to Maximuscle but has the same benefits.

Remember though, that the more exercise you do, the more calories you will have to take on to aid muscle growth and repair. Stay away from food full of sugar and saturated fat, eat the good stuff (it's normally green)! If you don't keep your calorie intake up you will start getting tired, won't be arsed going to the gym, stop going etc. Vicious cycle!

As Noble Ox said, vary your workout. Someone I used to work with went to the gym 5 days a week (3 days 2 times a day!) working different muscle groups and different areas of the body. There is lots of information on the internet some of it crap (like most of this post no doubt) however there is some really good information

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

Getting some really great advice here thanks all.

Think I'm gonna do 3 days running, 3 days gym alternating and have saturdays off. I'm a complete flat-foot non- runner so i'm gonna stick with two miles for a while and try and push pace before I push distance.

Will vary my routine as well, cheers Ox, although keep it on a rotating basis so as to keep things simplified and focused.

Chasey, that Promax stuff sounds like it might be good idea although I am reluctant to push my calorie intake as I have been on about 1600 calories a day for 10 months (although I do rather let myself go at the weekends). This stuff does sound relatively low-calorie though.

The website says to take it 2-4 times a day throughout the day. Is this really necessary? will a portion before a workout (and after?) suffice?

Did someone say photos? hmmm....maybe I should have wiped my toothpaste splattered mirror first...oh well:

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g5...h/IMG_0379.jpg


http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g5...h/IMG_0381.jpg

Those things that look like stretch marks are actually just scratches from when I used to tame lions...

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

phoar! :-) look at those beauties

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

If I were to take it twice a day it would be after a work out with some water and then before bed with milk. Milk slows down the release of protein. There is a special name for it me thinks but not so sure what.

When training though I will have 3 a day. One in a morning as a snack (elevensies), after a workout and then before bed. Don't burn yourself out though by not taking on enough calories!

With the running try and mix it up a little over different routes. Can get boring doing the same over and over again. Different routes mean different hills, undulations etc. Keeps yourself and your body guessing.

http://www.walkjogrun.net/ - a good run mapping tool!

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

The 'All in one' shakes are for mass biulding more than anything. I suggest you just get a pure protien shake (by pure i mean no extra wieght gaining ****) as you want to lean up.

Does'nt Createne flood your muscles with water? Give that ago may work for you.

Oh and Shakes in the morning are un-stomachable!!! Its so vile to get up and have one. Its suggested you take a protien shake within 10 mins post workout. But thats just what I've heard at the gym. But if you take too much, you'll just **** it out, and smell rather bad. My best mate drinks and eats so much protien. He doesnt listen when I tell him he is sh1tting money!!! and his farts gag!

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

If you are thinking of doing a few sessions a day then best of using a recovery shake rather than a pure protien or groth one.

For a shake like promax to work properly then you really need to watch your diet and check your carb intake a lotor you will get bigger but at the same time get more flab as well due to carbs not being burnt up.

The best shake if you like that i have found is the SiS Rego recovery. It i sa well ballanced shake which has enough in to help muscle growth but not high in carbs to hinder weight loss. I take one after my first session if i am doing two a day.

As for your routine, when in the Gym why waste your time on a rower or running machine, do a weight session designed to tone and all over strength instead. Save your CV for running outside. you will benifit a lot more than using a pontless machine.

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

+1 on the dont run in Gym, it's a waste. The only cardio I do is swimming in the gym for obvious reasons.

My cycling mate and I have discovered some absolute beautifull places. Off footpaths/canals/B-roads. Really enjoyable - thats the best way to train. As we enjoy it we will be out for hours on a Saturday

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

Thats it, now you don't get my phone number...

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

Right then, no intentions of insulting anyone, but some of the advice on here is fairly appalling. For some more well-informed advice, check out the Mens Health Forums, they have a Beginner's FAQ section

http://www.menshealth.co.uk/chatroom/topic/310453

It answers pretty much all your questions, if you can be bothered to read it all, which I suggest you do!

I'm no expert, but have turned to these guys for advice on gym & diet info a few times, and they are very knowledgeable.

Statements like ''dont go 4 times a week'' and ''If you do both cardio and weights on same day, do cardio first. If your doing cardio, you wont need to work your legs in the gym'' are ABSOLUTE NONSENSE!

Seriously, doing cardio first is an absolute no-no. Your body uses explosive movements and huge amounts of energy in lifting weights, why tire it out with cardio first? You'll just compromise your lifting abilities.

And the thing about not needing to do legs if you do cardio is a joke :smt017

Again, I don't mean to offend people, but you shouldn't offer advice if you're not 100% sure yourself. [-X

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

Cheers Rob I shall check out that website.

I'm looking for peoples personal experiences, I'm not worried if their not exactly perfect for me, i'm just curious about what works for certain people, although thanks for pointing out that one about cardio and weights on the same day, I see your point.

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

My personal experience is that lugging big lumps of metal about (weightlifting) tends to give better results than pounding away on the road/treadmill for hours on end.

Another benefit is that weightlifting stokes your metabolism, meaning that your body continues to burn calories in an effort to rebuild the torn muscle for hours after exercise, which doesnt happen to the same degree with cardio stuff.

The advice I hear repeated over and over is that if you are new to training, you should concentrate on working the large muscle groups (back, chest, legs etc) rather than worry about training specific parts like biceps (disco arms :D)

The best way to do this is to do a full-body workout a few times a week, consisting of compound exercises, such as squats, deadlifts, pull ups, bench press etc.

This will help to build a solid core, from which you can build further.

Most importantly, and as you have no doubt found out yourself, is your diet. No point wasting hours in the gym if you're not feeding your body what it needs :smt045

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

Jeez!

Sorry I did write it all quite bluntly, as I wrote it in a rush (im at work apparently!) so I can see why you interpreted it how you did....

It was a personnel suggestion to the OP not to go 4 times a week as he is new. I'm not trying to say never ever go to the gym as much as 4 times a week or as little as 2 times a week, it MUST be 3 times a week else all will fail and the world will come to an end!.... But I can see that the 'don't go 4 times a week' may suggest this.

I find that as I run/cycle/swim at least one of these everyday, I don't need to wieght train my legs.

As for the cardio before wieghts - I was told this by a PT at my gym, just passing on what I've heard.


Sorry I will never try and pass friendly advice/suggestion again :(

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

Haha great comment :D

I'm at work too, bit stressed, like having outlets for my rants :rolleyes:

Hell, at least the OP and yourself make an effort to exercise, there are a lot of NHS-sapping fatties out there....

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

Oh, and take what the PT's at the gym say with a pinch of salt, a lot of them tend to have interesting ideas...

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

Ok, this is gonna take more work than I expected, just ran 1.3km in 13mins dead on :(

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

two hundred and thirty four thousand nine hundred and 29 % disagree.

Running in a gym is as good as you put in. Same as any other aerobic exercise. If you do it half-assed because you don't want the blonde on the stepper to look down on you then fine, however i can work out just as well in the gym as i do on the road.

Fartlek training on a running machine is an absolutely quality work out. Yeah, you can do it on the road too but on a running machine it can be just as effective, if not more if done correctly.

I second the advice about the rubbish advice. What works for one won't necessarily work for another.

Ultimately this is a motorbike forum so whilst you can get opinion on here, i struggle to believe that you can get quality advice. Go to a specific health site like MensHealth and try your questions there if you are that desperate for advice. Either that or research yourself.

Or...if your feeling flush, seek out one of the thousands of personal trainers that offer their services these days. Not only will they make you a quality program tailored to you, they will be a fountain of relevant knowledge, a kick up the backside when your flagging and a whole host of other benefits.

I was like you, 2 years ago the best part of 18 stone. I am down to just under 16 now and most of it i put down to the knowledge i have learnt along the way from the personal trainer i had. Very little advice or knowledge did i get from a forum (including MensHealth), i find them only useful for product reviews.

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

+1, I've trained for two marathons with substantial proportions done on running machines. It isnt the same as running under your own propulsion but its perfectly fine for aerobic exercise.

If you are intending to lose weight, or specifically burn fat then harder training isnt necessarily going to help you. Quite the opposite, you need to determine the heart rate range for your body within which your body will burn fat, stay within that range for regular exercise and fat burning will occur, simple as that.

In addition you need to address your diet such that you are taking in the optimum amount of the right type of food and you will lose weight, no fancy supplements or energy drinks necessary.

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

[QUOTE=Welsh_Wizard;2284979]two hundred and thirty four thousand nine hundred and 29 % disagree.

Running in a gym is as good as you put in. Same as any other aerobic exercise. If you do it half-assed because you don't want the blonde on the stepper to look down on you then fine, however i can work out just as well in the gym as i do on the road.

Fartlek training on a running machine is an absolutely quality work out. Yeah, you can do it on the road too but on a running machine it can be just as effective, if not more if done correctly.
[QUOTE]


rubbish, for startes you have to have an min incline of 4% to componsate for the eaiser run on a machine. As far as running goes there in NO subsitute for using the road or x-country routes.

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

sorry but that's just not true, if the intent is aerobic exercise then a running machine is one way to achieve that. The level of incline or speed can be used to adjust the heart rate needed.

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

yeah it is, the incline compensates for lack of resistance on the ground, in the air and the machanical aid it gives you in your momentum. Not saying a running machine wont get you fit just that its ****e in comparison to propper running. Its better than nothing tho.

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

Theres seem to be a lot of advice on here telling you to build. You dont want to build do you?? you want to lose the excess weight and tone whats left. You still have excess fat hanging about so keep your calorie intake low, include cheat days and exercise to raise you metab. If you want to lift weight, lift light weights. The last thing you wanna do is build by using heavy weight and low reps, it will make you look fatter lol.

If you do decide to weight train, dont work you abs. They will get enough of a workout if you excercising all the rest of you body. You dont wanna be pushing that tummy out anymore lol.

Get on muscletalk, im on there somewhere, not logging in for a while.

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

My response was because that the guy said "running in a gym is a waste" - that statement is absolutely incorrect.

I am well aware that a 10-mile run on the road versus a 10-mile run on a 0% inclined running machine is different however consider this :

1.) Running on a running machine is useful for a beginning as it helps with gait, technique, gives you that little bit of aid and allows you to calculate your speed/distance/times a lot easier. Going out as a beginner with no target, no way of measuring yourself and no technique will get you no where except injury.

2.) Running machines are bouncer that road. If your a beginner that lacks decent running muscles around the ankles and knees, running on a machine is going to lower the chance of injury.

3.) A 10-mile run outside. Nice. How about a 15-mile run on a running machine at race pace with a 5 or 6% incline ?? Not much difference.

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

My 2p on the gym so may of already been covered:

• Dont train the same muscle group more than twice a week, i personally leave a three day gap, its recommended to leave atleast 48 hours.
• Train heavy! don't pick up a weight which you can rep 12 times and then go for another set, go for the weight where you can lift it maybe 6 times with the last rep failing.
• Stick to the big compound lifts to begin with eg: Squats, bench pressing, dead lifts, military press etc.
• Try to eat one gram of protein per pound of body weight, obviously not all in one lump, space it throughout the day in smaller meals, protein shakes help aswell plus can could take a shake to fill you up instead of that bag of crisps.
• Do the big lifts (AFTER A WARM UP) like bench pressing first in the gym so your muscles arn't fatigued.

Running will help you lose more weight which could lead to more flabby skin, i would stick to press ups etc to tone the chest, rowing is a good alround exercise aswell.

I wouldn't weight train and do cardio on the same day either, might add more as i remember what im being nagged about at the gym and pass on what i know :D

Oh and form is important no point doing an excercise if your form is all wrong, also could hire a personal trainer if you have lots of money to throw about, could prove helpful.

Edit: the above is providing you want to fill the skin with building muscle and not just losing fat and toning, not trying to be harsh either if you do lack a bit of muscle maybe its worth putting some on first so there is something to tone?

Creatine is fairly expensive, from maximuscle anyway plus when starting out you should get gains fairly easy with enough work with out splashing out money on creatine imo

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

If you are running on the treadmill - make sure you set the incline to around 2.0-2.5 as this will help mimic road running. i.e you will be using more of your quads etc to lift and move your legs.. If you can try aim for around 45 mins cardio. I know the suggest daily cardio trainiing is 30 mins but if you can get the extra 45 mins in the better for you.

When on the machines work at cardio rate not fat burning rate - the machines should show your HR. If you are 24 then you should be training at around 135 - 157 (HR- heart rate reading) Its all well and good getting toned up and getting your muscles a lot stronger but dont forget you heart is the most important muscle of all...

And the best advice I can give you - because I have no idea how fit you are etc etc - how far/fast you can run or what strength you have in different muscles is get a personal trainer - in a gym they are reasonable rates.. Even if you only use them twice - they will be able to give you a personal programmed just for you and after around 6 weeks will assess how far you have come on and adjust the programme accordingly.

Nobody can give fitness advice like you are needing over a forum without knowing your history (any possible contra-indications you may have or health problems etc etc) Even the heart rate I have suggested is a general one for your age - it will vary depending how fit you are..

Congrats in losing all that weight - well done, its not easy.. and good luck with toning up the rest of you and getting fitter and healthier! ;o)

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

ooh and dont forget to have a warm up - maybe on a bike for around 5-10 mins then stretch out your main muscle groups then when you have finished - cool down for 5- 10 mins afterwards and stretch again.. But a personal trainer will take you through all this..


Personal trainers really are not a lot of money - but are really worth it!! They will show you the correct techniques on treadmills, cross trainers or resistance machines etc.. You can do more harm than good if doing something incorrectly..
In my gym at the moment they are offering 3 sessions with a trainer for only £45.. See what your gym can offer..
And as beabert says - lighter weights with more reps will help you to tone up your muscles - you dont want to bulk up.
Again good luck and let us know how you get on!

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

+1.

Join a gym, and talk to the professionally trained instructors.

I dare say there are any number of us on here who've been, or are, pretty fit. And maybe some of us have been trained to a pretty high level, and competed at a high level BUT being trained and being trained to train are two vastly different things.

P.S. I'm a relatively old fat cripple but in a past life have trained, and competed, at a decent level but I wouldn't dream of giving any other advice other than get a professional for the advice you need.

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

I thought that you needed to know your resting heart rate as well as your max heart rate to work out the different zones for fat burn etc:
http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/genera...asics/176.html

Also, it's worth mentioning that it's very difficult to measure heart rate on a treadmill unless you wear a HRM.

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

All PT at gyms are is people with some experiance and a piece of paper aying they can teach.

There are people i would far rather listen to including myself from 12years of training than half of the PT i have come across.

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

You are totally correct Sarah.

Normally I rate this forum but to be honest the advice in this thread is bordering on total bull....if the aim is to lose weight as I understood.

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

You love those sweeping statements dont you :D

I can only assume that you make them to get a reaction.

Of the 3 PT's I have used over the last few years, one is a Welsh Under 21's capped rugby player and currently is signed to a Guiness Premiership team (albeit not first team)

..the other is a GB rep' on the Triathlon squad.

the final guy granted had one of those package deals from a PT company but needless to say he knew a lot more than me and whilst I concentrated on the sweating aspect, he concentrated on the planning aspect.

Hopefully the original OP gets what he wants from all this banter and that is 'no one on here is qualified to assess YOU therefore either do it yourself or seek pro' advice (face to face)'

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

Yup thats true - thats why I said its only an average rate - because it all depends on how fit etc he is to what his resting heart rate is..

He needs to see a personal trainer who will devise a programme just for him, which will take into account his fitness level at the moment and what his goals are.. Plus any health history which could affect types of training he does - which we dont know about on here - hence nobody can give him advice really.. Unless they know him, and are trained properly in this field.

Like someone says - you may be a great runner etc etc and know how to train yourself but it doesn't mean you know how to train someone else.

See the professionals mate -best way forward!

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

Mmmm, good job I used an instructor... "your heart rate is way too high for your general level of fitness and weight." Leaky mitral valve.

Like I said, use an expert. Less chance of injury, more chance of a focused exercise regime. And you never know, it might just highlight something before it becomes a serious health issue...

*Saints preserve us from well intentioned amatuers*

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

Have'nt been on here for ages guys....

My comment about running at the gym is a waste - Didnt mean to translate to: 'running at the gym is useless and has no affect'

I purely meant it's a waste of 'Gym time'. I.e it adds half an hour/an hour to your time in the Gym. Which, for me, usually means I do less weight training.

Plus it's so much more enjoyable to do it outdoors.

...serious misunderstanding here!!!


And I agree with the 'get some preofessional advice'. I go to the gym and have about 8% body fat, and was just offering my advice, as it clearly works for me.

BUT saying that, it could just be because I'm pretty young, and I'm doing it all wrong!! :)

Re: Gym/running advice thread
 

Seriously, reading this back, I don't know how you could think I meant running and cycling at the gym is pointless and has no affect!!! Am I crap at writing or something? That's clearly me saying that when I do cardio outside of the gym I tend to do it for longer and get much more enjoyment out of it. Jeeez! Some people ey!

Oh well :D