Independence referendum..
 

When (not if) theres a referendum on independence what would you vote?

Re: Independence referendum..
 

independence.

i would like to see it happen, i'm not an english hatter (far from it) i would just like to see us make a go of it. ok so it might take a cppl hundred years or it might take a cppl decades but if other countrys can do it then i'm sure that we could.

My feelings exactly Bibio. I'd like to see Scotland stand amongst the other nations of the World. Too many Scots believe the pish about us being subsidised. Independence removes the excuses and we need to get on with it.

I hope it's not taken the wrong way in England though. It gets misrepresented as some kind of anti-English thing but that's just the football :)

I'll be voting Yes by the way.

I'm English and have lived in Glasgow for 7 years now. I think it may be a bad idea. I would expect a lot of companies would leave the new independent Scotland especially if Salmond gets his way and starts playing with taxes. Its not broke so why try to fix it?

I haven't looked into it too much but I just have a feeling it would all end in tears.

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Lets be honest, if it isn't broke, its not far from it.

I can't disagree with what Tam said!

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I will vote no.

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i'm all for staying in the union.
i was more than happy to give the snp my vote for gov. as i think they have done a good job minus a few wee mistakes [ala magrahi] but i would defo vote no to independence.

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I'd also vote no.

As for Abdel Baset Al Megrahi....not a chance in hell Kenny MacAskill made that decision without instruction from Westminster and the Whitehouse!:rolleyes:

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Could the no voters expand by giving reasons please as I believe in hearing both sides of an argument

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I just hope that any referendum is based on cold hard facts.

Not petty nationalism. We shall see.

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I'd vote yes in a referendum.

I think an independent Scotland could bring a wealth of benefits to a lot of aspects of our lives, NHS, policing, farming, imports/exports, immigration, jobs, improved economy, perhaps even a reduction in the bureaucratic bullpoo that gets filtered across from Europe and Westminster.

edit: While I am proud to call myself Scottish, I am not "anti-English", nor anti European. I just think we, as a country have enough oompf about us to go it alone. My point in my idle banter post still applies though, there are far too many people who are not aware of the full implications and impacts of independence. It's things like "I'll need to show my passport every time I go to Carlisle" (MBK - it's not just you that I've heard express that sentiment so that isn't to be taken personally) that people fixate on, and that frankly wouldn't be true. We're not about to resurrect Hadrians Wall and have armed guards at the border....

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Agreed but the other side of 'no mans land' might be a different scenario entirely ;)

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I like the idea of independence but it may and probably would cost me my Job and most of the 2000 people that work in my building.

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if Scotland was to be independant then what would happen to the UK Armed Forces? There are lots of Scottish people that are based at units in Englandshire so would they have to move back to Scotland and would all the English folk stationed in Scotland have to move back to Englandshire?

Scotland could not afford to run its own Armed Forces. Look at what is happening to all 3 services across the UK with all the job cuts, aircraft, ships and equipment being reduced.

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The thing about the passport was mentioned because it cannot be ruled out. None of us can say for definate that England, if it becomes a foreign country, won't decide that they want a border control!

Anyway,as I have already stated, I cannot fathom how we could possibly sustain our independence. Our unemployment rates are sky high, people living off benefits are sky high, we have some of the highest rates of alcoholism, drug abuse, heart disease and obesity in Europe. I just think independence is biting off more than we can chew.

And I echo Apollos sentiments about Armed Forces. Similiar can be said about Police mutual aid resources.

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i find some of the responses quite interesting.

i think a lot of people have the misconception that everything would come crashing down and that once Scotland became an independent country that was that and we would be left to our own devices. thats never going to happen. it will take decades to gain actual 'full' independence form the union. there are far toooooo many variables at stake to cut ties in one go.

as for the police force, well dont we already pay for our own as it is.

as to the armed forces, that would be decided by the powers that be.

for all those scardy cats that think the world is going to end if we do gain independence then let me put your minds at ease and say that NOTHING will change. ok we may end up paying more tax buuuut at the same time we might just end up paying less.

Re: Independence referendum..
 

Bibio are you willing to guarantee my income if we split? If you can yeah I'm quite happy to be run by a government that our country wants.

Can anyone tell me some actual tangible benefits of independence? Do you not think that it'll be the same old story, just with the people making the decisions being a bit closer to home?

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that would depend on what you do for a living. if you are some quango employee sitting in an office making stuff up as you go to keep yourself in a job, then i'm afraid it would be the axe then again maybe not, job creation and all that to lift the spirits of the public.

if on the other hand you are part of the NHS/services then i would presume that your job would be safe.

this is all speculation and the only way to find out would to go independent.

from what i know and that was yeeeears ago Scotland gets £50b form westminster to run our affairs but when asked what the actual figures are that we send its point blank refused and always come up with some excuse or another.

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To say that Scotland should be independent is purely a nationalist policy sounds to me.

It isnt based on economic or military or social or transport...nobody has the first idea what will happen as Scotland has never been independent before in the last 300 years. So it is a total case of hope for the best.

The idea that anyone can vote independent and for the standard of living to fall means you are voting to be poorer? How does that fly?

You can't eat a flag.

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how do you come up with 'the standard of living will fall' that's just media bullshizz.

i'm going to stop now.

Re: Independence referendum..
 

+1

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How do you come up with the standard of living will rise?

Thats just media Bullshizz.

Nice of you to say that due to independence you have lost your job.

that would be comfort to those who do.

Re: Independence referendum..
 

Unfortunately nobody can guarantee that you will keep your job,the old job for life scenario went out the window a long time ago Many moons ago I worked in Glasgow then Bathgate in the vehicle industry but when things got iffy I moved down south thinking it would be more secure-------wrong
A fact of today's modern life is you have to go where the work is,hoping to stay put and waiting for it to come to you isn't the answer
Funding for public services such as Police and Fire Service are part of your local rates so these can be taken out of the equation. Like some others I would like to know how much revenue is generated for the national coffers by Scotland
I would want to know all the facts before national pride would influence a descision and this will probably be in the minds of most voters.Till that day I reserve my perch on the fence

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Sounds like a plan to me. Good call.

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timing is great eh?-just as the oil is about to run dry in the north sea, you'll get the braveheart mob shouting for independance-yeh right-by all means be responsible for your own affairs but as local councils have shown already they can't run a single town correctly never mind a country.

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Just wish you'd done this 15 years ago.
. . and kept the Member for Dunfermline East and ( separately ) Kirkcaldy your side of 'adrian's wall.

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what are the tangible benefits??
Other than the nationalistic shout of freedom, what will it change, never mind improve??
I would like to see an educated and informed debate, but frankly i dont think that will happen. It will be media and spin and flag waving rhetoric, style over substance.
North sea oil.. running out fast, who says we could claim it as our anyway, the world is becoming smaller, why would we want to become more insular rather than more connected.Britain plays an over inflated role in the world as it is due to historic empires and inflated egos, look at other countries our size and how much they interfere / contribute to wolrd events. Would we be big enough to become small, not to be "important" but to concentrate on self interests and improvement, i dont believe so.
Have a look at other like sized countries and their taxes, income, standard of living, world status, etc.
We are a small, moderately industrialized, poor service tourist economy, ISLAND. which in itself presents many issues. I understand the blood pumping, freedom, hard done to, unlistened to attitude but i cannot see a deceleration of independence changing that much.

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Here's some excerpts from the McCrone Report commissioned by the Heath Government in the 1970's and then stamped "Top Secret" and buried for 30 years. It remained secret under the Callaghan, Thatcher, Major and Blair Governments until released under a Freedom of Information request.

"..large revenues and balance of payments gains would indeed accrue to a Scottish Government in the event of independence...The country would tend to be in chronic surplus to a quite embarrassing degree and its currency would become the hardest in Europe...just as deposed monarchs and African leaders have used the Swiss franc as a haven of security, so now would the Scottish pound be seen as a good hedge...the Scottish banks could expect to find themselves inundated with a speculative inflow of foreign funds"

Things don't change..

"Our biggest problem is lowering the expectations of the Scottish people" Martin O'Neill MP (Labour) 1984

"We have got to engender fear of the SNP" Douglas Alexander MP (Labour) in a leaked memo, 1999

Re: Independence referendum..
 

Since when did someone from Germany have a say?

Re: Independence referendum..
 

Though i was born english id vote yes.. (then i can make up jokes about it being our version of mexico) just kidding.. same opinion as northern ireland. If the people that live there want independance they should ofcourse be allowed to have it.. and holyrood seems to be doing alot better job than westminster at the moment. i just hope its well thought out and about the facts instead of a campain slogan of a weegie screaming about hating the english

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Seriously. How long have I been on the forum? I'll let you into a wee secret...*whisper mode* I'm not really from Germany...

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I see.

Oh dear. Ah well.

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isn't it lucky we weren't independant when The Royal Bank of Scotland went bust.

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And HBOS.

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Looks like the Independants are streaks ahead in the poll :)

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Seriously...I've no idea how long you've been on the forum but I go on what I've seen and read from you - bumping your gums and sniping about this year's GM when you're not actually going - hypocritical:rolleyes:

You might not "be" from Germany but if you're "domiciled" there then you didn't don't have a say and preaching from afar is as hypocritical at its best!

Re: Independence referendum..
 

Being a Scot myself, thought I'd pitch my pennysworth.

I'm not sure if I would want independence or not, as said there are a huge number of factors that I just don't know enough about to make that decision yet.

However on the "where would the money come from" question if Independence WAS the way forwards. Feel free to pick holes in the following, most of it is being written as I think of it rather than it having been a considered set of thoughts, condensed over months of mulling over...

Simple, as a resource-poor (lets leave the oil out of it for now, as said, its running out) nation then the economy has to be fueled by the people, so its going to be skills based.

Fortunately we have a history of doing just that, so IF that can be re-ignited then wheres the problem?

Which skills, well it has been mentioned how well regarded the Scottish members of the UK Armed forces are, wouldn't it make sense to focus on this.

Ok so it means effectively becoming Soldiers for Hire, but the support infrastructure for such a venture would fuel employment, after all the weapons and equipment need to be designed and built somewhere, and by keeping that internal, would create jobs.

I have to admin that the idea above comes from some books I read years ago - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorsai!

One spin off of the becoming "World Police" would be the need for Language to become important, which would also lead to the possibility of the Scots becoming brokers in business with us providing Translation services to the world, if every Scot was taught to be fluent in even one World Language other than English (and I guess we should learn English too). The Language thing would serve the Armed Forces well as well as the Business World.

So basically, build an economy based on the People.

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Stuart, what the heck are you talking about, she's from Newton Stewart and she lives there you walnut. Anyone is entitled to a say and an opinion on anything they wish. And unless I'm reading different threads to everyone else MBK has hardly commented on the GMIV. Unless it's the top secret PM pact thing again...

:-s

AND even if she was "domiciled" in Germany, as a Scottish (or British as MBK may prefer) national she would still be entitled to an opinion and to vote on Independence for her home country. Which is why people all over the world get proxy and postal votes.

Re: Independence referendum..
 

Let MBK speak for herself. I've no knowledge of where she's from and it says Germany as her location.

As for the "secret pact" - I've had it on good authority that you're behind the secret pact trying to spoil things.