Advance training?
 

Hi guys and girls. Myself and the wife are looking to do some extra training as I have been out of biking properly for a few years and she needs some confidence buikding on corners after a couple of offs. I have rad about IAM, Bikesafe, ROSPA and the DSA ERS, but not sure what would be best. I passed my test in 2001 when it was three different manouvers and a couple of questions, the wife a couple of years later. Which would you recommend?

Re: Advance training
 

this saturday at orwells they have free iam assessed rides!!

Re: Advance training
 

As above.
Its a good starting point. Thats how I ended up doing the IAM

Re: Advance training
 

Got me name on the Bike Safe waiting list...;)

Re: Advance training
 

Just riding the bike is training in itself. No substitute for miles under wheels.

Bikesafe is a good intro to advanced training, also many advanced groups have little taster sessions. The £100 or whatever it is IAM fee is a bit steep to part with without meeting the group and observers first.

Re: Advance training
 

I did the Bike Safe and they recommended I do the IAM. Haven't passed yet but it has made such a difference in building my confidence and road skills properly. My local group has loads of activities like club nights and ride outs, trips abroad etc. Is really good fun and excellent company.

Re: Advance training
 

Agree with that.

I wouldn't have done the IAM if I hadn't an free assessed ride a couple months earlier

Re: Advance training
 

I've done two Bikesafes and the second one was just a PITA pootle around with a copper mostly warning other drivers for being on mobile phones. It's good (was for me anyway) for an insurance deduction if you're back into biking.

Re: Advance training
 

i done a free ride with bikesafe today and it was great 9.5/10 am definatly going to to it when i have some spare doller and time

Re: Advance training
 

After one year of riding, I did Bikesafe last year with the Leicestershire Police and I thought it was excellent - and as a bonus it was free!

Re: Advance training
 

I'm an IAM member, it's £139 for the years membership and test, you should have a ride out every now and again, milton keynes one is once a month but northampton meet every weekend, you get all tuition included in the price as well, it's well worth doing, ROSPA is free though I believe and all work from the same book, although I found ROSPA less social than IAM.

Re: Advance training
 

Rospa is not free, the initial joining fee is £55 and then to take your test is £54, there are test passes graded gold, silver or bronze. With the IAM the fee is £139. the test is included and you can pay in two installments. Contact your local group and ask for a free assessment and go along and meet them. The big advantage over Bikesafe is that it is an ongoing learning curve, not just over 2 days.

Daryl.

Re: Advance training
 

I just signed up for ROSPA myself, cost me £25 to join the group and £54 or something for the test when I get around to it and it's £20 a year after that.

Got to say I didn't know that you could pay the IAM in two instalments, they are not very forthcoming with information at the local IAM group. I like the idea of having to do a retest every three years with ROSPA which is included in your £20 a year membership

Re: Advance training
 

im in rospa. the anual fee is 20 quid. Your retested every 3 years and its 55 quid for the test. Its graded as well. The iam is for life really so in theory you can have an iam badge for 10 years and be crap. tbh theres a lot of variation. Ive seen some tutors that are great and some you wouldnt want for your cbt. Go and see the group and see what you think.

bikesafe and such is a one off deal like an assesment ride for one of teh above. good but not as good imo.

Re: Advance training
 

btw on a similar but seperate note ive been out with this chap for 30 mins and hes fab! really would recomend spending some brass with him.

http://www.warpspeedadvanced.com/

hes not going to tell you how to get your knee down or anything but will make you a happier safer rider.

going for an assessed ride for 30 quid is a bargin imo. say andy on the green speed four sent ya ;)

Re: Advance training
 

my bad.

Re: Advance training?
 

I was saving up for a belly pan and new rearsets but decided to sign up for a days training at California Superbike School instead. I haven't been yet as it is next month and I consider myself a beginner so will report back on how I found it. It is a CORNERING school, no racing just cornering so the missus might find it usefull.
Bit expensive mind
www.superbikeschool.co.uk

Re: Advance training?
 

I fancy ROSPA but there isn't a ROSPA group near here and the nearest IAM group is 55 miles away. Tut.

Re: Advance training?
 

ALWAYS a reason eh Nic?

; )

Re: Advance training?
 

You've lost me there Stretchie?? Always a reason for what?

Re: Advance training?
 

I have my BikeSafe booked for June - looking forward to it. £50 isn't bad to spend nearly a whole day with Police motorcycle riders.

Re: Advance training?
 

I've just started reading twist of the wrist 2 its not advanced training like IAM roadcraft stuff, but I passed my IAM test 3 years ago and in the 30 pages of this book I have read i'm absolutely blown away by what this guy has to say, brilliant.

Re: Advance training?
 

My take on it is the advanced stuff prevents you from getting in the sh*t but the "racetrack"* stuff gets you out of it.

*Racetrack, or just knowing how to ride a bike, twisty wrist stuff, whatever.

Re: Advance training?
 

Well i find it interesting, i tried just one of the techniques on the bike today whilst riding at 75% and swear i was much faster whilst using my IAM **** to be safer. You just never stop learning with bikes i suppose.

Re: Advance training?
 

Well as far as the advanced/safety criteria is concerned then if you can see round the corner then you can go nuts.

Re: Advance training?
 

Well yes this is true, but there's a confidence thing in there too. I've been reading about survival reactions and how the worst thing you can do most of the time is shut the throttle when you go in too hot, and I think this guy really has a point. I've spent most of today cracking the throttle, tipping in then rolling on as soon as possible on all my corners and i've been very impressed with my progress.

Re: Advance training?
 

YC is correct in what he's saying though - once you've got the hang of trusting the capabilities of the bike, proper application of the Roadcraft system should prevent the need for survival reactions by making the bend a fully analysed and planned maneuver. The key aspect then is to keep the tyre grip trade off (or cornering pie, or a few other ways of saying the same thing) firmly on the side of making the corner by not adding extra forces that will use grip that you can't spare.

When it comes down to it, most post-test training is about overriding the survival instincts of a brain not designed for travelling at more than running speed and replacing them with ones suitable for riding at least 6 times the normal design speed.

Re: Advance training?
 

And observation I might add. The sooner the brain gets the information, the less likely is to have a panic reaction as you have more time for planning. I have found that observation is closely conncted to ones ability to comfortably controll the bike and it gets better with time.

Re: Advance training?
 

You're right, of course - I included observation in that, as training the brain to get used to looking further up the road for hazards is probably the hardest part.

Re: Advance training?
 

I wouldn't want to be thinking about pies when the back end is starting to spin up :-P

Most modern tyres are idiot proof enough that you can go in as fast as you want until something drags on the floor so long as you don't do anything stupid like tw*tting the front brake on when leant over or applying 150bhp immediately at full lean!

Problem is with cornering pie etc is how does the diagram mean anything? You don't know what 100% is until you find it. Doing that without falling off is the fun bit :mrgreen:

Re: Advance training?
 

I've never scraped anything when cornering pegs knee etc although I did have a Harley footboard scrape slightly on a test ride woo.

I take it the faster you take the same corner the lower the bike will go, is that about right?

Re: Advance training?
 

What's cornering pie ?

Re: Advance training?
 

Just read a chapter about slides front and rear. I would never have thought to open the throttle if the front end starts to tuck!

Re: Advance training?
 

All I can think is a big steak n kidney just inside an apex n u have to get low enough to grab it n eat it b4 u get to the next one :)

Re: Advance training?
 

Well yeah that is true but we're not talking ground clearance here.

You have a pie. Every load you put on the tyre takes a slice. When there is no more pie left then the tyre slides.

Basically it's a bit of a weird way of saying if you are cornering you can't brake as hard because there is less grip. To you or me it would probably be better described by a diagram of the reaction force at lean angle and the effect that will have... but anyway.

Yeah don't tw*t the brakes on while cornering or you'll fall off. Pie.

Re: Advance training?
 

I just finished a chapter about steering! mental, i now understand how bikes wheelie out of corners while still turning. I've also identified myself as a lazy turner, this has turned out to be quite a productive hangover.:-D

Re: Advance training?
 

Well me and the wife went for an IAM assesment today at Orwells. My riding standard is very good, just need to work on positioning during cornering. Will more than likely go down the IAM route.