Solar Power
 

I am now officially saving the Polar Bears---and next doors cat just for good measure.
Hopefully small electric bills from now on and a bit of money back for what we put into the grid:)

Re: Solar Power
 

Just in time too. Doesn't the tariff reduce 1st week of March?

I was thinking about panels but we'll probably move again in next few years. Did you have to have the roof reinforced or was it OK? Free leccy and payment from the Gov, can't be bad!

Re: Solar Power
 

I've got the higher tariff and never had to make any structural alterations to the house so all good for me even if it was getting in at the last knockings.

Re: Solar Power
 

better in than out DT ;)

Re: Solar Power
 

another unsightly installation of a product that will not save the planet,

sorry, tar and same brush and all that but these quick fix green measures are getting intolerable

devils advocate / PITA mode off

Re: Solar Power
 

What makes you say that?
How much damage / CO is produced in the manufacture of panelles?

Re: Solar Power
 

+1

I am just waiting for the outcry when, in the nearish future, the promised rewards/savings of these things fail to materialise in a way covered by the get-out clause in the small print.

Instead of discriminatory schemes like this (I dont have a roof to hang panels off if I wanted to), they should just be building more Nuclear Power Stations in a new Government Energy Company, which would allow them, through competition, to control the energy prices.

Re: Solar Power
 

Or research into nuclear fusion?

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We need the power now, not in "pick a number from the air" years/decades time.

In fact we need it about 10 years ago, which if the Fission plants had been built under a Government Scheme with them getting profits/control, would mean electricity would be so much cheaper than it is now.

Re: Solar Power
 

A lot of if's and but's -----in today's world how else can I reduce my electric bill,not some proposition that might happen if planners get their fingers out.Then we get the protests about it being built on somebody's doorstep.My panels can never cause the chaos like Long Island,Japan or Chernobyl. Not withstanding what you do with the spent fuel rods and the time to decommission a site.

Even if they start building nuclear power stations now by the time they are completed and on grid the price of electricity will have gone up by so much that the reduction will not even bring it back to today's price. I have taken action now that benefits me and is guaranteed for the next ten years---and I am a muppet?

Re: Solar Power
 

Uncle has just done the same. They cost £12k, he'll get smaller bills, and he's getting paid for what he puts back into the grid.

He reckons it's a 10 year return on investment, and at current interest rates better than leaving the money in the bank. He had them on his last two houses as well, so must have been solar for 15-20 years now, so he knows what benefits have or haven't materialised.

I'd also like to see some reasoning behind the claim that solar panels are a waste of time.

If everybody had them we'd be drawing 50% less power as a nation from the grid. Whatever you think the positive benefits are/aren't, how can that be a negative?

Re: Solar Power
 

They're not necessarily a waste of time from a personal economic standpoint. With the levels of subsidy that were on offer they were quite tempting....

However if you think you're saving the planet, dream on! With a bit of luck the Global Warming Scam will properly fall apart in the near future and the truth will come out that CO2 has pretty much naff all effect on climate.

As for saving next doors cat.... I'd need more data on the cat...

Sits back waits for reaction.....

Re: Solar Power
 

You know what I'm going to ask for don't you ;)

What's your evidence that CO2 has no effect on the climate?

Re: Solar Power
 

This is a nice little starter overview - some useful links to follow to more detailed info especially on the solar effects on climate.

The whole site is quite a mine of information. It's a well known "denier" site but well worth a read.

Note that I didn't say CO2 has "no" effect, I said " pretty much naff all effect" there is most likely an effect but it's no way as significant as it's been hyped up to be.

The data on this page sums it up quite nicely - http://wattsupwiththat.com/widget/ CO2 continuing to rise, temperature stable, starting to decline...? And that's just since 1979.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/05/3...lobal-warming/ is also quite a good read

enjoy!

Re: Solar Power
 

Slightly off topic, but do any of you remember when the government was extolling the virtues of the diesel car and how much cheaper diesel was in conparison* to petrol ?

Now, what's the price of diesel ?

Just saying.

*intentional misspell. ;-)

Re: Solar Power
 

I personally want to see those polar bears we're saving.. did you go for a local company or a national ?

Re: Solar Power
 

I can't remember the exact figures, but I ran the AV on a conference about 'heritage buildings' in York a few months back, and one of the speakers on the conference was asked a question about PV (the 'in the know' name for solar panels = photo voltaic) panels - he errupted and started spouting about the amount of energy required/carbon generated to produce one domestic sized PV panel will take 50* years the the carbon to be offest by the 'green energy' generated from the PV..

Bit like building a nice hybrid car which doesn't give out CO or CO2 but the production process for the car's giant battery produced 10x* more carbon than the entire footprint of a conventional fossil fuelled car..

*= again, these are just numbers for postings sake, not actual facts or figures from teh internet..

Re: Solar Power
 

You're better off running about in a mark 3 land rover than a prius :)


Though I am suspicious of "amount of carbon", my mate had too much time on his hands once over and worked one of these statistics out compared to the actual price of oil or coal... they are either getting cheaper than market price or someones lying.

Re: Solar Power
 

Yeah there's the 'dust to dust' research publish a few years ago in whatcar magazine and it turned out that a jeep wrangler had a lower life time carbon footprint from production to scrapping, than a prius/generic hybrid, simply because the jeep used simple panels pressed in aluminium and a simple petrol engine with simple components, where the hybrid had this superduper electric cell and was really heavy so used more tyres.. And what about in 10 years when the warrranty on the prius battery expires? Watch those hybrid prices plummet!

Anywho back on topic. Congrats on your PV's..

Re: Solar Power
 

I have to admit, I don't give too much of a fuss about carbon footprint saving. I do however care greatly about my electricity bill and the apparent uncontrollable trend upwards in the cost of the energy.

On a good sunny day I'm now generating about double what we actually use which is fantastic. The numbers are real, despite the various doubts over long term viability, there's nothing imaginary about my electricity meter whizzing backwards.

I've been logging energy meter readings weekly since before we installed PV, sad perhaps but really the only way to properly compare before and after. What I see is a huge reduction in energy consumption since installation, obviously slowed down during the winter months but already turning positive again.

Re: Solar Power
 

does the electricity meter really go backwards? :D

Re: Solar Power
 

Yep, if you have the traditional type with the spinning disc. Newer smart meters dont as they are able to track how much comes in vs how much goes out.

But yeah, on a sunny day my meter reading reduces.

Re: Solar Power
 

See I've long been in the camp of "pointless gambit designed to benifit only the manufacturer" but having had to be educated on them for work I've learnt that although that initial statement isnt correct its very much one sided.
If you or I buy PV then you or I will save some pennies over the lifespan of the panel (1) by comparrison to if we remained grid fed. BUT if you think you're saving the planet then you're sadly mistaken, the evidence is over whelming that production of these systems uses more carbon than they can offset during a lifetime.

So if you want to save some money between now and the next 15years of your life then go for it, but if you want to save the planet then invest in a ground sourse heat pump.

Sustainability is a proper biatch as a module to study!

(1) assumed lifespan of an installation is between 10 and 15years dependant on a number of factors.

Re: Solar Power
 

if you are interested in saving the planet, get rid of your car before worrying about solar.

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Most people are only interested in saving the planet, when it saves them some money, or makes them look or feel good.

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If it makes any difference I always fold the toilet paper in half so I can wipe twice with the same wad..

"save the world by saving a wad"

Re: Solar Power
 

yes but the only trouble is that the rest of us are subsidizing these hair brain schemes,wind solar etc that in the real world wont ever make money,and we arn't talking about general taxation we are talking about the extra we all pay on our electric bills,cant remember the exact amount but out of the total we pay for electric something like over half aint for the electric,and this goes back to the beginning of nuclear when we had a 10% levy put on our bills coz nuclear cost more to produce electric,and in anycase there is a sh*t load of oil in the antartic yet to be tapped into

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Yea! Someone else who can see the blinding obvious solution hidden behind a screen of scaremongering and ignorance

- runs and hides in bunker to shelter from anticipated shower of green boll----

Re: Solar Power
 

So apart from the hideous costs of decommissioning a nuclear plant & 'responsibily' disposing of the left over glowing green mush, what else is stopping us using nuclear power? Is it just off the back of disasters like Chernobyl & fukushima?

Re: Solar Power
 

You should all read "State of Fear" by Micheal Crighton :)

Re: Solar Power
 

puts tinfoil hat on.

we could all have relatively clean free electricity. if you don't believe me go and look up some of the things Tesla invented.

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Show me one that isn't complete bullsh*t...

Like tesla turbine, boundary layer effect turbine, sounds dead fancy... people say it makes free energy. Does it buggery, it obeys exact same thermodynamic principles as the rest of the world. Tesla invented it as a way to extract motive power from hot air or steam. Perpetual motion though, nah. He wasn't a bloody moron...

Many many conmen trying to separate the gullible from their money.

Re: Solar Power
 

not saying battery/electric hasnt got a place, and although it doesnt produce pollution,the power stations that produce the electric do,and ofcourse if you are driving more then 50 to 100 miles a day you will have to stop for up to 24 hours to get a full charge,and about every 4 years splash out about 10k for new batteries,so battery cars are at the moment a flawed substitute for petrol/ diesel
oh i stand corrected the 100 000 dollar sports car from telsa will do 300 miles at 55mph(sports car!) on a charge and take 4 hours to recharge,mind you its a 70 amp charger,so thats a big old socket it runs off

Re: Solar Power
 

Recently did a little bit of work for a (big) company developing its own "range extender" engine for electric vehicles (EV). Think 30kW "backup" engine which will avoid you getting stranded in your EV when the batteries run flat.

Their very detailed energy study showed that there was effectively no net CO2 difference between this type of vehicle and a small diesel car in general use, but the "fashion" is for EV to shift the CO2 burden to the electricity generators, effectively hiding it. The running cost per mile works out lower because the source fuel doesn't have the excise duty and VAT applied in the same way as road fuel, if it did the costs would be about the same. This is effectively the same as burning red diesel in a static generator to generate electricity to charge your vehicle batteries so you can drive on the road, no duty on the diesel even though that's where the energy comes from.

Re: Solar Power
 

Except the colossal waste of energy in carting half a tonne of batteries around with you everywhere!

Re: Solar Power
 

If we all cared about energy and green, we would all consume 30% less which we all could realistically do and everyone would micro-generate with either wind, solar, gorund source, putting kids on push bikes connected to generators.

Re: Solar Power
 

What's all this ground source jazz everyone's going on about?

Re: Solar Power
 

Had our leccy bill a couple of days ago.

Our 2.16kWh system knocked about £85 off our utility bill in January; estimated but within a couple of kWh.

Will be better than this when the longer/sunnier days arrive (hopefully :-))

Re: Solar Power
 

The true way to save money and be "green" is to stop buyin new stuff and only replace an item once it's trashed and beyond repair.

A car emits most of its co2 during production so buying a new car to get 10% better economy is a flawed idea in terms of pollution and saving money. A friend of mine upgraded to a new car at a cost of 7 grand to save 40 quid a month on fuel

Re: Solar Power
 

Depends on what happens to your old vehicle. If your old vehicle is broken down and either parts used in other cars or recycled then is it less green?