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-   -   R.I.P jade Clark (http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=196502)

granty92 22-03-13 11:08 AM
R.I.P jade Clark
 
On the 24th of February jade Clark was killed on the A31 near ferndown, she was on a moped and hit by a Volvo xc90 who fled the scene, today at 3pm is her funeral and the also announced that the 58 year old driver from Kent was arrested this morning and his car seized, my thoughts go out to her family and friends

Fallout 22-03-13 11:34 PM
Re: R.I.P jade Clark
 
Glad they finally caught him. Mopeds are such death traps on high speed roads. You're just way too vulnerable.

Fordward 23-03-13 01:06 AM
Re: R.I.P jade Clark
 
RIP Jade, such a waste of a young life

hope they string up the disqualified, uninsured, cowardly scum bag that killed her. doesn't care about being disqualified, flees from the scene after killing someone, wouldn't be surprised if he was drunk as well, too late to prove that or otherwise now

Wideboy 23-03-13 12:04 PM
Re: R.I.P jade Clark
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallout (Post 2848611)
Glad they finally caught him. Mopeds are such death traps on high speed roads. You're just way too vulnerable.
+1, sad story and i feel sorry for her family and friends, however, rather than adress the problem of allowing a moped onto a high speed stretch of dual carriage way in the first place, they'd rather drop the speed limit to 50mph (not sure if they've gone through with it yet).... funnily enough still too fast for restricted 30mph moped so can't really see what its meant to accomplish :rolleyes:

tigersaw 23-03-13 01:04 PM
Re: R.I.P jade Clark
 
That stretch of road is like a motorway, in fact most people are in motorway mode ready for the M27 ahead. Not the place for inexperienced moped riders. Despite the tragic circumstances, calls into question the training or lack of it

Fallout 23-03-13 01:20 PM
Re: R.I.P jade Clark
 
Mopeds are only suitable for town use or similar low speed roads, imo. I don't know what the training is for mopeds on CBTs but aren't you supposed to command your road position (i.e. not ride in the gutter)? Yet every moped I see is always riding in the gutter with cars constantly squeezing through against on coming traffic.

I'm definitely not in the ban them camp, or adjust speed limit camp, or anything like that. I just think part of the instructors responsibility should be the make it really clear if they don't command their road position, they are in real danger. All these kids have it in their head they need to ride in the gutter to stay safe, but that's about as safe as farting in a psychopath's face.

They need to ride in the middle of their lane, make cars slow down and overtake them when it's safe to do so. If they can't handle ****ing everyone off (which is what happens!) or don't understand the dangers then they shouldn't be on a moped. You can't sacrifice your safety to keep impatient people happy.

Thunderace 23-03-13 07:47 PM
Re: R.I.P jade Clark
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallout (Post 2848724)
Mopeds are only suitable for town use or similar low speed roads, imo. I don't know what the training is for mopeds on CBTs but aren't you supposed to command your road position (i.e. not ride in the gutter)? Yet every moped I see is always riding in the gutter with cars constantly squeezing through against on coming traffic.

I'm definitely not in the ban them camp, or adjust speed limit camp, or anything like that. I just think part of the instructors responsibility should be the make it really clear if they don't command their road position, they are in real danger. All these kids have it in their head they need to ride in the gutter to stay safe, but that's about as safe as farting in a psychopath's face.

They need to ride in the middle of their lane, make cars slow down and overtake them when it's safe to do so. If they can't handle ****ing everyone off (which is what happens!) or don't understand the dangers then they shouldn't be on a moped. You can't sacrifice your safety to keep impatient people happy.
Well said!

stuR 23-03-13 11:00 PM
Re: R.I.P jade Clark
 
Its a pretty sad story, made worse by the fact the driver thats been arrested is a health and safety officer on the railways yet is banned from driving and has been caught for this 3 times. Due to this he was also uninsured, and is now going to be charged for 7 seperate offences. What a tool

TheOnlyNemesis 23-03-13 11:37 PM
Re: R.I.P jade Clark
 
RIP

This legal system in this country is a joke, he had already been done for driving without insurance and while disqualified, he clearly wasn't listening. Lock him up inside for a few months each time.

Lozzo 24-03-13 11:15 AM
Re: R.I.P jade Clark
 
Who's laying bets he won't get a custodial sentence?

RIP Jade

Spank86 24-03-13 11:34 AM
Re: R.I.P jade Clark
 
They need to make an example of people who flee accidents. The punishment should be far worse than if you stay and are uninsured. They need to make it so much worse because it could be the difference between someone's life and death.

Dave20046 24-03-13 12:10 PM
Re: R.I.P jade Clark
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallout (Post 2848724)
Mopeds are only suitable for town use or similar low speed roads, imo. I don't know what the training is for mopeds on CBTs but aren't you supposed to command your road position (i.e. not ride in the gutter)? .
They're taught to ride "1/3 of the width of the lane away from the curb" you can't deviate from this positioning no matter what hazards are upcoming or you fail your CBT.
Or at least that's what bikesafe in sheffield teaches/taught and didn't like it challenged.

Ridiculous

Spank86 24-03-13 12:43 PM
Re: R.I.P jade Clark
 
Well that is ridiculous and its certainly not what they teach down this way.

Also these days it's just ride in the middle of the road if there are no hazards.

LewSpeight 24-03-13 01:15 PM
R.I.P jade Clark
 
On my CBT when I did it a whole ago I got told to move over to the side of the road when cars were behind me and I was on a 50cc moped.
Thankfully I never got one of the 50's so never was in that situation

Fordward 24-03-13 02:16 PM
Re: R.I.P jade Clark
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave20046 (Post 2848993)
They're taught to ride "1/3 of the width of the lane away from the curb" you can't deviate from this positioning no matter what hazards are upcoming or you fail your CBT.
Or at least that's what bikesafe in sheffield teaches/taught and didn't like it challenged.

Ridiculous
DSA requirement for the test is exactly the same

they have to account for people who don't have the sense to decide what is good road positioning and what isn't, and in a day on the CBT they have to teach people how to ride the bike who've never even sat on one before, they don't have time to teach road positioning properly, so they default to teaching the safest position that can be applied to all circumstances, and that's not in the gutter, but away from oncoming traffic

the main concern for the DSA is new riders getting taken out by oncoming traffic cutting corners on left hand bends

I don't really agree with it, but I can understand why it is taught

Bikesafe Sheffield should be ashamed of themselves if they are teaching it too, Bikesafe is supposed to be an introduction to advanced riding, should take riders a step further on from the DSA test, and road positioning is one of the most basic concepts in advanced riding

orose 24-03-13 04:41 PM
Re: R.I.P jade Clark
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fordward (Post 2849028)
Bikesafe Sheffield should be ashamed of themselves if they are teaching it too, Bikesafe is supposed to be an introduction to advanced riding, should take riders a step further on from the DSA test, and road positioning is one of the most basic concepts in advanced riding
Just to avoid any doubt, this is (most likely) Bikesafe the riding school, not the police-led Bikesafe scheme. As a result, I think this is putting riders in line with the DSA requirements rather than moving them on from that.

Fordward 24-03-13 05:35 PM
Re: R.I.P jade Clark
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by orose (Post 2849076)
Just to avoid any doubt, this is (most likely) Bikesafe the riding school, not the police-led Bikesafe scheme. As a result, I think this is putting riders in line with the DSA requirements rather than moving them on from that.
OK, misunderstanding on my part, sorry

Dave20046 24-03-13 07:45 PM
Re: R.I.P jade Clark
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by orose (Post 2849076)
Just to avoid any doubt, this is (most likely) Bikesafe the riding school, not the police-led Bikesafe scheme. As a result, I think this is putting riders in line with the DSA requirements rather than moving them on from that.
Yes thanks the case, I've done a bikesafe scheme and advanced techniques were encouraged; positioning was fluid and prominent/scenario appropriate positioning was definitely encouraged.

Bikesafe are a training school, not the greatest when challenged on gutter lane their response was "I'm the instructor you're not", could have at least said they were obliged to teach you to pass the test and nothing more. Guess they have to deal with a lot of daft 16 year olds

yorkie_chris 24-03-13 08:25 PM
Re: R.I.P jade Clark
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave20046 (Post 2849145)
Yes thanks the case, I've done a bikesafe scheme and advanced techniques were encouraged; positioning was fluid and prominent/scenario appropriate positioning was definitely encouraged.

Bikesafe are a training school, not the greatest when challenged on gutter lane their response was "I'm the instructor you're not", could have at least said they were obliged to teach you to pass the test and nothing more. Guess they have to deal with a lot of daft 16 year olds
Any instructor in any field who responds to a genuine inquiry in that matter is not fit to teach knitting. Let alone life critical skills.

Prize muppet. Then again some CBT instuctors have "issues", those who can do, those who can't teach...

a_monkey_hint 24-03-13 08:32 PM
Re: R.I.P jade Clark
 
Same on my CBT & DAS last year. I was taught to ride in like a train in the middle of the lane. Taught to pass a test rather than gain real riding experience. With 9 years driving experience - I naturally moved to the left or right of the lane but quickly told not to by my instructor.

stuR 24-03-13 09:16 PM
Re: R.I.P jade Clark
 
i was taught to ride in the middle. Which now im learning advanced riding i have learnt is not preferable however to be taught to ride by the kerb is ludicrous. I think the same of car drivers that pull to the kerb to let you overtake when you are already at the speed limit though..dont assume all riders want to take risks 24/7 and by offering that chance they may be liable for an accident, like if you wave someone out and they crash..

Spank86 24-03-13 11:04 PM
Re: R.I.P jade Clark
 
You're not liable either way,

I always wave bikers through because I want you loonies in front of me where I can see you, not behind possibly overtaking me when I want to move over in my lane.

stuR 24-03-13 11:20 PM
Re: R.I.P jade Clark
 
eah i guess there are pros and cons. but the example i can think of was on a single carriageway 60mph and there was oncoming traffic..

Spank86 24-03-13 11:36 PM
Re: R.I.P jade Clark
 
Yeah, that's why you move over. To give room.

stuR 25-03-13 12:08 AM
Re: R.I.P jade Clark
 
My point is its best to overtake when a rider has evaulated the situation and decided its safe, not when the car driver infront deems it a good idea to wave someone past. Purely incase the rider just follows the instructions like a zombie and ends up coming off worse

yorkie_chris 25-03-13 08:00 AM
Re: R.I.P jade Clark
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuR (Post 2849181)
like if you wave someone out and they crash..
If somebody waves you out the responsibility is entirely on you to make sure it is safe to make your maneuver. No liability is transferred to the person who waves you out.

Fordward 25-03-13 08:24 AM
Re: R.I.P jade Clark
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuR (Post 2849261)
My point is its best to overtake when a rider has evaulated the situation and decided its safe, not when the car driver infront deems it a good idea to wave someone past. Purely incase the rider just follows the instructions like a zombie and ends up coming off worse
then the zombie rider probably needed taken out of the gene pool anyway, but I agree with what you are saying, one of my pet hates

the number of times I'm sat behind cars who pull into the gutter or almost onto the grass verge, when you're thinking 'oh, FFS I'm not going to overtake you now for XYZ reason', then when you don't overtake they slow down forcing you to brake behind them. eventually they get the message and carry on their own journey

i'm riding a powerful motorbike that will have no problem getting past, and i'm quite capable of deciding when an overtake is on and when it isn't

thanks anyway, but I don't need you pulling into the gutter

when I want to overtake and its safe, rest assured i'll get past you no problem, just ignore my journey and get on and drive your car whilst concentrating on your own

stuR 25-03-13 09:06 AM
Re: R.I.P jade Clark
 
Really Chris? It was my understanding people that waved/flashed you to go were liable for any accident caused by this action, perhaps i was misinformed. My point exactly Fordward :)

Spank86 25-03-13 10:03 AM
Re: R.I.P jade Clark
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkie_chris (Post 2849281)
If somebody waves you out the responsibility is entirely on you to make sure it is safe to make your maneuver. No liability is transferred to the person who waves you out.
Exactly.

The wave is to say that I personally am allowing you to pass, not that I have evaluated all possibilities and its 100% safe to do so.

Drifting over in the lane even less so, I could just be a bad driver.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stuR (Post 2849298)
Really Chris? It was my understanding people that waved/flashed you to go were liable for any accident caused by this action, perhaps i was misinformed. My point exactly Fordward :)
No. In fact even of I flashed my lights and then hit you myself its not 100% certain I would be liable since waving or flashing have no legal status or meaning and are not in the Highway Code.

yorkie_chris 25-03-13 10:12 AM
Re: R.I.P jade Clark
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spank86 (Post 2849316)
Drifting over in the lane even less so, I could just be a bad driver.
You try retrieving your fags from the passenger footwell without dropping your bacon sarnie and keep in same position in lane :p

Spank86 25-03-13 12:32 PM
Re: R.I.P jade Clark
 
Exactly.

Especially when you've slipped a shoe off to retune the radio with your toes at the same time.

BanannaMan 26-03-13 05:08 AM
Re: R.I.P jade Clark
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkie_chris (Post 2849319)
You try retrieving your fags from the passenger footwell without dropping your bacon sarnie and keep in same position in lane :p

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spank86 (Post 2849385)
Exactly.

Especially when you've slipped a shoe off to retune the radio with your toes at the same time.



Damn, you two sound like Americans! :p
(but you need to be on your mobile as well)

yorkie_chris 26-03-13 07:46 AM
Re: R.I.P jade Clark
 
Hey we were being ****s in white vans when you lot were still on horses :-P


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